I've come to a disturbing conclusion about Japanese "storytelling". They are such gifted writers that you can pick out any given random manga, anime, or novel and be enamored by its story, characters, and setting for it to likely take a 90 degree nosedive towards the end and turn into complete and utter shite. Why are the Japanese so bad at endings? Is it a cultural thing? There must be a reason because this is disturbingly common. I'm sick and tired of growing so attached to something I'm reading or watching only to be disappointed at the ending, just feels like wasted time effort and energy. How can we get the Japanese to understand that it is not how you start but how you finish?

Weekly shonen manga tends to be difficult to plan out in advance. Water is wet. Fire is hot. I can show you all sorts of awful TV show and comic endings from around the world, they run into the same issues.

>>280000852 (OP)
>They are such gifted writers

This has to be a troll. First, you just gave a reason why they're not. Second, they can only do melodrama. They literally cannot do subtlety to save their life. Third, they can't do character-specific dialogue. Everyone talks like everyone else.

The reason you like their writing is that (1) it's simple enough for you to understand, (2) all character motives are surface-level, which appeals to autists, and (3) the Japanese are super-prolific because they don't care about sacrificing their lives for stupid reasons (the Emperor, ""honor"", manga, etc), so you can enjoy getting engulfed by sheer quantity.

>>280000852 (OP)
>Why are the Japanese so bad at endings?
FMAB has a great ending

>>280000852 (OP)
>>280000926
lmao

dunno op
you try reading eroge? at least the good ones end well

>>280000852 (OP)
Is it really just a jap thing? I mean look at Lost or literally any Stephen King book or movie, terrible terrible endings.

>>280000852 (OP)
Japanese have no concept for pacing, it just doesn't exist for them. Combine that with regular chapter-based releases, whether LN or Manga, and the interference from editors as well as motivation to keep the grift going, you end up with a skeleton-less story that had no planned direction having to wrap up relatively quickly when it gets canned.
Having terrible endings is not uniquely Japanese. Most long-running TV dramas have terrible ends, most sitcoms and soaps have the same issue. A lot of novels have terrible ends.

>>280000852 (OP)
It's this shit.

>>280001033
Ahh the Shyamalan special.

>>280000000

>>280000926
>Third, they can't do character-specific dialogue. Everyone talks like everyone else.
Yakuwarigo makes Japanese one of the most customizable languages in existence. Even a word as basic as "I" has countless different variations that all reveal something about the traits and personality of the one saying it.

Apart from attack on titan none of the ones in the age had anything even close to a "bad ending"

>>280000926
>they can't do character-specific dialogue. Everyone talks like everyone else.
stop reading shitty translations

>>280000926
>all character motives are surface-level
This is what upsets me the most about Japanese writing, so many of their characters are shitty 1-D cardboard cutouts with usually a SINGLE MOTIVATOR for their entire being. They have no nuance, no deep interesting questions, its just, I need character to do/be X, so I will force the story to conform to X. Honestly, I think they use characters primarily as plot devices, and then force them to serve the plot, instead of allowing a character to grow and flourish under their own strengths/weaknesses and have the plot serve them.

>>280001198
Prison Schools ending is widely regarded as garbage, what are you on about?
If you were in Houseki threads you'd know like 90% of people stopped reading that shit with how dead the threads were after Phos prayed, no one gave a fuck anymore but the manga just kept going for like another 10 chapters

>>280000852 (OP)
>japanese story
>moral of the story is "life is worth living"

>>280000852 (OP)
Anime originals tend to have better endings, they still have to fight off against season 2 bait though.

>>280000852 (OP)
>How can we get the Japanese to understand that it is not how you start but how you finish?
That's because manga publishers require you to make a strong pitch, and they put the most effort into that over anything else.

Mangas favor long form storytelling as opposed to short ones because the latter doesn't sell. If they sold two issues as opposed to 100+ then they wouldn't make money from it and their releases would be barren.

>>280001333
contd. the way manga works in Japan is that it is a monthly/weekly/daily magazine or newspaper bundles issues of different manga at once. They later release collectors edition dedicated to that single manga.

They're not like single issue comics or graphic novels, and thus aren't written like those. If you've read doujin that contains multiple artists before, it's exactly like that.

>>280001178
That's just another layer of cliche, like if pirate characters all said "arr matey" to flag that they're pirates. I'm talking about dialogue that is fully differentiated the way it is in good Western fiction. Compare how Captain Ahab talks with how Oliver Twist talks.

>>280000852 (OP)
There was a study done on how children from different cultures draw. Western children start with the characters first, while tend Japanese children start with the background. I believe this difference in approach to creation carries on in life.

Notice the reason to shit endings, it's often something like a character completely going back on all if their development, to me this is because the character was never the real focus, they were just a tool to arrive at the end state the manga author intended for the story. We as westerns may see this as jarring and a complete betryal to the time we invested seeing them grow (the japanese hate it too, it's honestly more like manga authors vs their fan base). I guess it's a tradeoff with all the imaginative settings we see from mangaka.

>>280001468
>>280000926
unless if you've read it in the actual japanese language and grew up in Japan, you can't complain about their writing at all. There's a lot of work and ideas that you aren't exposed to because of the language barrier

>>280001493
>There was a study done on how children from different cultures draw. Western children start with the characters first, while tend Japanese children start with the background.
Honestly if this is the truth it explains a lot of why the Japanese do settings very well, but their characterizations are often very poorly done.
>the character was never the real focus, they were just a tool to arrive at the end state the manga author intended for the story.
And this to me is the sign of a very badly thought out story. In all my writing work its always drilled into you that the characters are what are supposed to drive the story forward. You are correct as a westerner its very upsetting to just see a character I liked, or invested my thoughts into just get thrown away by the author simply because they served their "purpose" by being a plot device for the author to force whatever plot outcome they wanted.

In all honestly, I think the Japanese really adhere to the idea that the characters must serve the plot, while in western writing we really attempt to capture the plot serving the characters. Which results in a lot of disconnect, and dissatisfaction with Japanese writings.

>>280001549
While you have a point in not understanding the nature of their prose, being able to criticize universal ideas does not require a deep linguistic understanding.

>>280001241
I like it that way, not every character needs to be a round character with a detailed backstory like comics are. Some stories can do it well, but most can't. It makes stories extremely long and it removes focus from the themes that you're trying to push. That's why comics have several universes.

>>280001468
>how Captain Ahab talks
There's no shortage of animanga characters using excessively pretentious and flowery language for no good reason

>how Oliver Twist talks
I don't remember any particularity in the way Oliver Twist talks, he sounds just like any proper boy in a 19th century british novel. Oliver hardly even talks anyway, he's practically a silent protag.

>>280001566
>In all honestly, I think the Japanese really adhere to the idea that the characters must serve the plot, while in western writing we really attempt to capture the plot serving the characters. Which results in a lot of disconnect, and dissatisfaction with Japanese writings.

Yes. It leaves Japanese stories feeling fun but not fulfilling.

>>280001645
Philistine.

>>280001666
I accept your concession.

>>280001566
It's not really universal, just specific to their culture. Even we have stories like that here.

Our most universal films are marvel movies, not art house stuff.

>>280001283
Listen the Japanese need to hear it ok.

Autism is literally more common among Asians. Look it up. This is why character work tends to be harder for them.

>>280001623
having characters just be cardboard cutouts used to push themes makes a story feel really shallow though

>>280000852 (OP)
Japanese endings are only consistently bad in serialized mediums like manga or airing television series where there's deadlines, building hype, and changes in creative vision as the project goes on and on.

Endings aren't consistently as bad in one-and-done things, like anime movies, OVAs, visual novels, non-serialized light novels, etc.

I have come to the disturbing conclusion that the average 4cucker is a nicaraguan with down syndrome

>>280001623
Its certainly a double-edged sword, I will agree with you. Having short form content utilizing a cast of flat characters is fine, or having some flat characters supporting a well rounded character can work wonders. Literally the entire purpose behind the structure of main/supporting characters. The issue I think is that a lot of the time these main characters are flat themselves, and don't have much going for them other than one or two personality traits, and some sort of generic motivation factor (Japanese authors love to use love for that one). However, that could also still be okay depending on the context, but I feel like Japanese authors want their cake and eat it too. They want intricate deep stories but put a piece of wood at the forefront of everything. So, because their character is so weakly defined, they are forced to push the plot along to whatever ending/point they have to get to, instead of just having a really well defined character that on their own can drive plot on their own.
>It makes stories extremely long and it removes focus from the themes that you're trying to push.
I agree mostly with the first part, but disagree with the second. You can absolutely explore all sorts of themes through strong well rounded characters, but it does require tact to do well. Honstly lol, my main issue is with Japanese writings that portray themselves as very heavily character driven, only to find that the characters themselves are just shallow pools that have zero depth, and it gets even worse when others tout it as some god's gift to writing prowess. There is a manga I've stopped reading that was like this, very heavily character focused, yet, each and every character could be summed up in like two sentences. Even the protagonists had almost no depth to them. This author also LOVES to use his characters as plot devices, they to him, are just a means to an end, and that to me, is a travesty of writing.

>>280002048
What made you reach this conclusion?

>>280001623
Its certainly a double-edged sword, I will agree with you. Having short form content utilizing a cast of flat characters is fine, or having some flat characters supporting a well rounded character can work wonders. Literally the entire purpose behind the structure of main/supporting characters. The issue I think is that a lot of the time these main characters are flat themselves, and don't have much going for them other than one or two personality traits, and some sort of generic motivation factor (Japanese authors love to use love for that one). However, that could also still be okay depending on the context, but I feel like Japanese authors want their cake and eat it too. They want intricate deep stories but put a piece of wood at the forefront of everything. So, because their character is so weakly defined, they are forced to push the plot along to whatever ending/point they have to get to, instead of just having a really well defined character that on their own can drive plot on their own.
>It makes stories extremely long and it removes focus from the themes that you're trying to push.
I agree mostly with the first part, but disagree with the second. You can absolutely explore all sorts of themes through strong well rounded characters, but it does require tact to do well.

Honestly lol, my main issue is with Japanese writings that portray themselves as very heavily character driven, only to find that the characters themselves are just shallow pools that have zero depth, and it gets even worse when others tout it as some god's gift to writing prowess. There is a manga I've stopped reading that was like this, very heavily character focused, yet, each and every character could be summed up in like two sentences. Even the protagonists had almost no depth to them. This author also LOVES to use his characters as plot devices, they to him, are just a means to an end, and that to me, is a travesty of writing.

>>280001688
>It's not really universal, just specific to their culture.
Do you mind expanding on this a bit? My only horse in this race is related to how they build and execute a character within the context of their story, which I do feel is a very universal thing that is discussed in writing. Certainly there is cultural influence in how they go about that, I mean, my own culture has influenced me for my own writings, but if I were to post some of what I wrote, then of course I would expect anybody of any upbringing should be able to discuss and criticize what I wrote. Saying that its just their culture bro, is handwavy at best, and dangerous at worst. If we let them just continue to get away with in my eyes a general construction of subpar characters because "its their culture" then to me, we are doing them a disservice.

>>280002099
any user here below the age of 35 is exactly that

>>280002138
Nah, the biggest groups are Americans and Israelis, there was a data leak not that long ago.

>>280001261
>Prison Schools ending is widely regarded as garbage, what are you on about?
For no reason at all, it was the most Prison School ending possible. The reason retards cried was mostly because muh ship sailed wahwah that you saw with shit like Bleach and Nardo

>>280000852 (OP)
Anything that is created piece by piece will eventually end like shit.

That's why I think manga and anime specifically should be released like games. First the author release the beta version weekly or monthly, then the author looks back at it once it's finished and releases the final version.

>>280002214
Manga schedule should be "seasonal" like anime, only releasing once there's enough for a volume. This would work really well for monthly manga.

>>280002244
That's probably a better idea, yeah

>>280001924
>Endings aren't consistently as bad in one-and-done things, like anime movies, OVAs, visual novels, non-serialized light novels, etc.
I took the visual novel pill a few years ago and endings tend to be way more satisfying than in anime or manga, and characters usually tend to be handled with a lot more care. I still watch anime but not as much as I used to, often times anime feel like they're missing something now.

>I've come to a disturbing conclusion about Japanese "storytelling".
fuck ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooff

>>280000852 (OP)
>They are such gifted writers
And other jokes we tell ourselves.
Honestly, I am quite eager to know how did you even reached this conlusion.
When was the last time you read a whole book?

>>280002171
Yes, Hispanic American retardation as seen in this thread and the catalog.
The average 4cuck user is either mexican or a 30 yo like roriconfan

.

>>280000852 (OP)
Stone Ocean and Land of the Lustrous endings were great, you are simply stupid.

>>280001017
shut the fuck up faggot, this is a Japan bad thread

I get the feeling some people in this thread have only seen mainstream series.

>>280002584
You can't name a better author than him

>>280000926
>don't care about sacrificing their lives for stupid reasons (the Emperor, ""honor"",
"For King and Country"
Britain during WWI

Koreans and Chinese make way cooler stories than Japanese folks these days.
Their anime’s already outshining Japan’s, you know!

I'm your guardian Angel.
Why would you reply to that low quality bait?

>>280005070
Brits don't kamikaze for the Queen. There is something deeply pagan in Japanese culture that sees life as frivolous and death as welcome.

>>280001283
>>280001696
This is the part I hate. It's literally
>j-just do yer job! b-because you have to, okay?!
It's already bullshit in the West where society is fucking shit. Literally an entire industry dedicated to suicide control and coping with an unbearable lifestyle. Just like in the West, all media is just propaganda.

>>280005338
They don't see life as frivolous, they just are more accepting of death

>>280002698
>roriconfan
That guy became a hypocrite and attacks anime for sexualizing minors even JKs. He also doesn't do anything with anime anymore and just makes reactions to other anitubers.

>>280000852 (OP)
Some have great endings. Stop reading shonen you faggot.

>>280002214
>>280002244
Or they should at least plan the whole thing out and write a basic script that uses actual logic and story telling. But this would never work for the serialized stuff like manga and LNs that need to go on forever to get pulling in cash..

90% of the "all anime has bad endings!" crowd are just niggas watching endless shonen or endless will they, wont they romcoms.

Stop watching things not designed to end.

>>280000852 (OP)
It’s only shonen spics that have to deal with bad endings

Don't feel like actually engaging with the topic other than to say take Houseki No Kuni off you mongrel. Literally just low IQs and unspiritual hylics don't get it

>>280005338
Brits literally sacrifice their children for coexistence (an ideal), there's nothing more pagan and hippie than that.

>>280000926
Japanese literature is traditionally known for subtlety.

>>280005456
Cope is morally good though and if you disagree you should kill yourself. Lead by example.

>>280000852 (OP)
Whys stone ocean there

>>280007519
>Naruto is subtle

>>280000852 (OP)
It's like that in western TV, first couple seasons are great and then it turns into garbage.

>>280000852 (OP)
>>280007519
>>280008659
Japanese literature was traditionally known for subtlety.

>>280010723
>One Piece is subtle

>>280000852 (OP)
This is not "Japanese storytelling", it's "weekly shounen manga real time management"

>>280008659
>>280010847
>shounenslop
>literature
When people discuss, for example, American literature, they don't mean Mickey Mouse comics

>>280010847
>One Piece is literature

>>280000926
No, he's right, it takes a real gift to weave a decade of serialized bullshit out of a single pilot chapter premise and have people like it enough to keep reading.

>>280004645
>Stone Ocean
Hey bro so we're just gonna create an OP Mary Sue villain that's gonna destroy and reset the universe. What's that? You don't like that all of the characters and adventures you've grown up with and loved is all going to be Erased? Yeah none of that matters anymore bro it's my story sorry.
>and Land of the Lustrous
Hey bro so we're gonna go ahead and have the MC fufill her duty by putting an end to humanity because that was the entire point of the countless sacrifices and 10000 years of her suffering which lead up to this. But... wait we have to stretch the ending for an additional 10+ chapters despite there literally being 0 story left to write about because we need those dollarydoos.
>endings were great, you are simply stupid.
If I'm "stupid" for pointing out incompetent writing then You are an absolute fucking giga retard

>>280000852 (OP)
MGX nosedived long before the ending, it got derailed with Idol Namek and never was the same after. No kiss ending was just the final insult.

>>280006735
>Humanity bad
>the world is a fuck
>life is meaningless
>it don't matter, none of this matters
Hmm, yes very deep, very insightful. But seriously if the Manga had ended directly after Phos prayed then Hoseki wouldn't be in picrel. Hot take, but to be completely honest nothing after when Kongo self destructed is worth reading, that's when the plot became convoluted nonsense, "so we're just gonna turn everyone to Lunarians now. Why? B-because reasons okay!??"

>>280007971
>Whys stone ocean there
See>>280010989

>>280005338
The worship of life is just a psyop to ensure a healthy supply of slaves in this nightmare.

>>280013209
what a stupid thing to say, kill yourself right here in this very moment if you truly believe the words you espouse.

>>280000852 (OP)
In the case of Prison School it was because the author was eternally seething his retarded sex comedy was orders of magnitude more successful than his serious passion project.
In the case of AoT it was because Isayama overdosed on capeslop.