what's the worst retcon in manga and anime?
to me its either kaguya or 5th gear.

>>280226111 (OP)
The way they handled Toichi Kuroba being twin brother to Yusaku Kudo, and all just to explain why their respective sons have identical faces.

>>280226111 (OP)
i hate when araki constantly retcons main jojo stand powers

>>280226111 (OP)
Atleast kaguya is hot and made me cum multiple times.

>>280226170
I thought this was worth it
>>280226238
never read conon. why is this bad?

>>280226111 (OP)
>Kaguya
>Gear 5
What was Bleach's equivalent?
Ichigo being a quincy?

I could accept Kaguya because by that time in the manga it has degenerated so far it really didn’t matter whatever magic bullshit was pulled out of its ass. 5th gear is straight up absurd gibberish.

>>280226250
He doesn't retcon them he just nerfs them by simply saying that they slack off and the powers of stands just decrease the less you use them, which is why Jotaro becomes such a jobber at the end of Stone Ocean

>>280226355
Silver arrow

>>280226355
I thought he was a hallow

>>280226405
hes a hollow, Quincy, shinigami, fullbringer, sayian.

>>280226111 (OP)
>Naruto is a talentless loser that works hard
>acktually he's the 2nd coming of shinobi jesus from a divine bloodline

>>280226355
I never had any problem with Ichigo being a Quincy since it had almost no impact on the plot whatsoever
>b-but he killed the Soul King!!
Yeah as if Yhwach couldn't do it himself if Kubo wanted him to
The biggest asspull in Bleach is the existence of Yhwach and his Quincy army

>>280226345
The retcon is from one of the movies. Conan and Kaito Kid used to be different series, with occasional crossover. But in Gosho's style, Shinichi and Kaito ended up looking the same (and so did their girlfriends, but that's irrelevant now).
Toichi was always just original Kaito Kid and Yukiko Kudo's teacher in art of disguise. In fact, she had even met his son Kaito when he was little. Yet all of a sudden, Yusaku tells his wife a story how he has a brother that he is supposedly close to. The problem is that it seems this supposedly close brother was never invited into Kudo home or even their wedding, there was never ever any talk of him, and Yukiko never noticed any familial resemblance in either Toichi or Kaito.
All because the sameface of the sons is now a plot point in the manga.

>>280226111 (OP)
reveals arent retcons

>>280226111 (OP)

>>280226374
That doesn't explain Kakyoin getting weaker after joining the crusaders.

>>280226355
Yhwach breaking his bankai a second time

>>280226505
>b-but he killed the Soul King!!
Yhwach did. Then he made Ichigo cut SK's corpse in two just for funsies.

>>280226840
a retcon means something is revealed and that reveal is treated retroactively as if it has always been part of continuity.
retroactive continuity=retcon
so yes, reveals can be retcons.

Goku being an alien is so normalized we forget its a retcon.

>>280227032
I don't remember the exact details but this just made him being part quincy even more inconsequential

>>280227112
Actually that was one of the few times when his being a Quincy mattered at all. Except no other Quincy in SK's presence felt compelled to slice him so idk. I think Kubo just did it for shock value (OMG Ichigo killed Soul King).

>>280227032
just stabbing the soul king didn't do diddly. he'd already had all his organs removed
what Ichigo did was split the crystal, and as we saw after, the soul king's hand just holding the crystal halves together was enough to keep it functioning as the cornerstone of the barrier between worlds. Ywach's whole modus operandi is pretending to be more omnipotent than he is to create opportunities to steal more power for himself

>>280226111 (OP)
She should return and marry a human again.

>>280226111 (OP)
Among the ones not listed already?
>it was Mikasa all along
And
>mhu stockholm syndrome

Probably i’ve never see such a dumb and story breaking retcon added last minute like that one.
It is a mistery for me how most normal fags ate that without issues… not all luckily, i have some anime only friends that disliked that twist too

>>280226111 (OP)
the only retcon was that the tailed beasts were once originally a single ten tailed beast. after all the shit kurama and shukaku said pre-shippuden more people should have seen it coming that the ten tails would have a way to backstab its host to free itself

>>280226978
He doesn’t.
He is simply too much of a good guy without the flesh parasite mind controlling him, so he would never do that invasive puppetting attack on a not-enemy person
>but the paintin…
FOR FUCK SAKE, he just EMERALDU SUPARASHU jotaro’s leg from distance and hile he was painting!!

>>280227052
It is kinda helped by the fact goku was fairly a unique entity in the whole series up until Z.
We never met another tailed human with incredible potential able to turn into a werewolf monkey during full moon until his son and JOBBERdizt

>>280227405
>the only retcon was that the tailed beasts were once originally a single ten tailed beast.

c'mon anon.

>sabo
>luffy's dream
>sanji being a cyborg
>coby suddenly an uber marine because he punches ships in his spare time

>>280227505
god, I hate sabo so much.

>>280227505
Coby makes sense.
It shows that even average humans without fruits can tap a great potential under the right conditions qnd training (plus haki bullshit).
The others are all crap, but at least with sanji we got that semen demon of his sister out of it

I don’t think G5 is a retcon because it was hinted at that luffys devil can do things that defies rubber. Sabo or Shanks arm being a retcon is more accurate

>>280226111 (OP)
Kaguya isn't a retcon.

>ussop is long nose tribe member native of the sniper island
How likely will this be

>>280227567
The bullshit part its not the “he can do what rubber can’t” , but “it was actually the super secret zoan god god fruit all along! The one from the legends!!”.
Even just “you have limitless creativity, which is the true power and meaning of the devil fruits” would’ve been far better than the god god retcon

>>280227505
How's Luffy's dream a retcon? Actually what was the first chapter when this was mentioned?
And yeah Sabo is the worst retcon of all, I remember when people were theorizing for years why he wasn't there at Marineford only for Oda to pull the dementia card out of his ass.

>>280226111 (OP)

>>280227626
this, Luffy being able bounce on the ground by turning it into rubber or turn kaido into a jump rope by turning him into rubber are fine since awakenings let you imbue your fruits abilities into the environment.
the idea that the gum gum fruit was actually the super secret god fruit is the retcon.

>>280227626
I completely disagree. The Nika looney tunes stuff thing might be a retcon but Oda has hinted that Luffys fruit has been special with the name, his transformations being just like Zoans, the mentioning of God during skypiea, the hint his devil fruit being a zoan with momo etc. In Skypiea they literally prayed for a God and Luffy appeared to fight an actual God. So when you say

“There’s no hints”

That’s bs

>>280227626
Also Luffy contrast BB who has the darkness fruit and Luffy can use fire attacks like Ace. Theres been multiple hints in the series that Luffys fruit isn’t just rubber

>>280227567
>can do things that defies *devil fruit's name*
This happens all the time in one piece, like how doflamingo managed to create a clone of himself that could even talk or sweat or a gigantic city sized uncuttable cage that even blocked radio signal but this doesn't mean that he's a mythical zoan model string god.

>>280227702
that's called being thematically consistent, the idea of the sun representing freedom is a very consistent theme in one piece but if you think the idea of the gum gum fruit actually being a mythical zoan for a god that would not be mentioned until Wano was something oda planned had back in skypia then I have some crytpo currency to sell you.

>>280227731
>use fire attacks like Ace
How tf does this prove anything lmfao? Even sanji can use fire attacks

I love one piece but oda glazers who refuse to admit that oda did not have the entire thing planned from the start are so annoying.

>>280227702
>the hint his devil fruit being a zoan with momo etc.

lol, oda dickriders are a different breed.

>>280227758
Yeah if oda had this planned all along he wouldn't have kaido's irrelevant lackey who jobbed to jinbe in two chapters be the one who first dumped the nika lore.
He could've had the gorosei, shanks, or anyone on fishman island loredrop it but nooooo it had to be this guy during a fight against an opponent who couldn't care less what he had to say.

>>280227731
>a lot of ints
All shitty bullshits and retcons
>but skypeia
Classic “games of the three cards”. Oda set a mystery box that can be used as excuse for everything, and later he can break the glass in case “i need a fast justification” for whatever he planned later. Like hell he actually planned the gomu to be the God god fruit all along!
>but mhu fire
Attriction + haki + creativity= fire

>but its still not something rubber can do!?
Soo
Doffy’s string can cut things, turn people into puppets , sew his body, create doubles of himself and other bullshits!
He actually ate the TRICKSTER GOD GOD FRUIT PUPPETMASTER ALL ALONG?!
and katakuri can turn mochi into steel and do things normal mochi can’t do!
WAIT HE ACTUALLY ATE THE SUPER SPECIAL ZOAN GOD GOD UKE-MOCHI (the japanese goddess of food) ALL ALONG!

>actually i didn’t ate the jacket jacket fruit
>MY TRUE FRUITS WAS ALWASY THE ZOAN ZOAN GOD GOD PARASITE DRESSER FRUIT ALL ALONG
>TURNING MYSELF INTO A JACKET WAS JUST MY ZOAN FORM…JAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>280227644
the first chapter it was mentioned was in the sabo luffy and ace childhood flashback, after Ace's death. ace said he'd become a pirate everyone knows the name of. Sabo said he'd fix this rotten world. Luffy said something but we didn't get to hear what it was, only that sabo and ace laughed at how absurd it was.
Then way later in the yamato and ace flashback we learn that Roger had the same dream

>>280227773
>>280227731
Mythical zoan

>pell's death
>full body black haki straight up deleted from the story
>devil fruit being rare
>grand line having second part

>>280228338
While not a necessary addition I don't think this is a retcon desu. Just another mystery box Oda introduced to keep readers talking.

>zoan's awakening went from impel down's invincible zoan guard to floating scarf

>>280228538
yeah. I think ultimately Oda decided on Luffy having a secret dream in tye same train thought where he decided the manfa wouldn't just end with Luffy finding the One Piece but have an additional arc about what he does with it, so bringing it up is his way of signalling that to the audience

>yamato being a girl

>>280226355
the closest equivalent would be Ichigo having an Aizen science experiment fused to his soul
main difference there though is Ichigo got established early on as being a freak and not normal, and why he has godlike power never got a conventional explanation that then got retconned, we just never got an explanation at all until the final arc

>>280226405
>is a half-blood quincy
>his quincy mother got infected by a hollow-shinigami hybrid. basically a proto-arrancar
>his shinigami dad took all of his shinigami power and used it to create a seal to stop the infection from killing her
>while in the womb, Ichigo absorbed both the proto-arrancar, and well as the shinigami power used to form the seal
>because all quincy power stems from being gifted a tiny slice of Ywach's soul, Ichigo inherited one such a slice
>that slice of Ywach held back 99% of Ichigo's power to stop him from triggering an apocalypse before he was capable of wielding it properly, and because at some point it stopped giving a fuck about the original Ywach's plans and just wanted Ichigo to be happy rather that get dragging into blood feuds from before he was born

>>280226355
This shit

>>280226978
he was never that strong, he just refused to use the parasitism application of his stand because he found it morally reprehensible

>>280227774
I don't care about if he planned it or not, I just care if there's odd things in the earlier parts of the manga that make more sense in hindsight given later reveals. there's good retcons and bad retcons

Still cannot be topped

This fucking dogshit takes the cake
No matter how much bullshit powerscaling you might pull out
>Dude it was just a misunderstanding
>It's a prank bro
Takes the cake

>>280228613
we were told off the bat that it was forced

>>280229050
>aliens run on alien logic
What's wrong with it?

>>280229050
honestly a device that petrifies you but can leave you conscious was already such clarkes law bullshit that I can forgive it
that the perps were baffled because every other technologically advanced species they'd done it to were super-geniuses compared to humans that de-stoned in a matter of weeks rather than millenia then made it funny
and them sticking around to try and figure out what went wrong rather than just writing Earth off immediately tied into the themes of applying the scientific method

>>280227505
coby being strong isn't a retcon, he has been training and improving massively since joining the marines. what about sabo is a retcon except for maybe him existing at all? him being still alive was so fucking obivous it's incredibly anyone believed he was dead, in the same chapter he "died" dragon misteriously saved someone from drowning

>>280226111 (OP)

>>280229831
I remember how cool it was that Itachi was actually evil and Sasuke managed to beat him with all his might. I was hoping that Sasuke would become an even more evil version of him that would dethrone Obito and become the main villain. But this Severus Snape-esque twist just ruined everything.

>>280230258
>Sasuke would become an even more evil version of him that would dethrone Obito and become the main villain
Why would Sasuke do this if Itachi was evil all along? He held no grudge against the Leaf, just his brother.

>>280230258
>Sasuke managed to beat him with all his might.
He literally did not. Itachi won the fight and then died

>>280229831
I truly believe that Itachi was planned to be a secret good guy with an ulterior motive from the start, it's just that Kishi had no idea why or how so it ended up coming across as an asspull.

>>280230359
Yeah which was revealed post-twist. Before the twist it seemed as if it was his last resort and he ran out of life by the end anyway
>>280230336
Because power corrupts

>>280227734
>this doesn't mean that he's a mythical zoan model string god.
wait for it

>>280227617
In part one the tailed beasts didn't even exist. Shukaku was a demon spirit that showed no reaction to Gamabunta transforming into the 9 tails.
Then we're told that the tailed beasts are to be turned into a super weapon so Akatsuki can control all wars.
Then we're shown that putting the tailed beasts into the gedo mazo actually makes the ten tails.
Then the ten tails is actually a tree.
Then the ten tails is actually Kaguya, an alien goddess.
But sealing her doesn't remove the tailed beasts from existence despite them comprising 99% of her chakra.
Kishimoto didn't even consider them that tied to her in the end after all the twists.
Kaguya is on some next level bullshit of retconning.

>>280230403
>Yeah which was revealed post-twist
Sasuke was there helpless, squirming and squealing as Itachi went for his eye and then just got the poke instead. in no way did he win

>>280229831
The true reason why Kishi retcon Itachi

>>280230487
lol nah you're mindcucked

>>280230487
Did he change anything in response to that one kid that died to his playmates simulating Gaara's sand burial?

>>280226864
don't fucking remind me of this shit

>>280230549
Why do you think Gaara was revived?

>>280230487
That's just a Tuesday in Japan

>>280227505
>sabo
>coby suddenly an uber marine because he punches ships in his spare time
I think you're confusing shitty and rushed developments with retcons.
It's obvious that Sabo survived since we saw Dragon's ship pulling something out of the water, it's his reintroduction to the story and excuse for being MiA until then that came across as cheap and stupid.
Same could be said about Coby.

>>280230400
Itachi crying doesn't contradict his villainess. The whole point of his ideology is that cutting bonds (killing your loved ones) makes you stronger

If Itachi was a psycho who didn't feel love he would have no bonds to cut in the first place

>>280228904
i still don’t get why this makes people so butthurt
post morten nen activation was well established at this point and performing cpr by direct heart massage would be well within the scope of what bungee gum can do

>>280227505
The existence of Sabo annoys me more than Nika. At least with the latter I'm sure that Oda had planned it from the start and just fumbled the buildup and reveal.
But Sabo.. Luffy already had Ace, there really was no need for a third brother.

>>280228499
>pell
Who the fuck cares if that guy survived or not. He was a tertiary character at best. And he is not ever going to return onscreen anyway. As much him surviving can be lame, its not like it is a massive copout or ruins some part of the background of other characters (looking at you ,Saul)
>devil fruits being rare
Correction , those were rare in the normies sea and the paradise, since the emperors, doffy and all the other big sharks from the NW hijacked most of them in their shady markets while the WG was trying to censor the others.
It makes sense for the fruits to be rare in the farthest and weakest seas

>>280228843
>cool idea that was used for one fight then never again
>next arc is them beating the cool monster out of him
IDK it felt alright