>start reading an early 00' western book about anime
>not even too deep in the introduction "This collection of essays offers bold and insightful engagements with anime's shifting negotiations with gender identity (...)".
Whats up with westoids, from both sides of the internet spectrum, and the obsession to frame eveything as gender identity?
If the male mc does not fuck the girl who likes he is a faggot. If a female characters cross-dress as a male for one episode, she is trans
FROM WHERE THE FUCK YOU GET THAT NEGROS?
also
>The anime shows mentioned are sci-fi and Miyazaki's films to paint the WHOLE picture of the anime industry
.-.

>>280533750 (OP)
Too many of us make politics our whole personality

Because mutts

>>280533750 (OP)
Not trying to do the whole show whee you complain about america, but americans seem to have a culture that is extremely political. a lot of people there take their constitution very seriously and hang american flags everywhere and worship politicians like they're a cult. Of course this goes in in every country, but it seems that americans do it much more than others. And this politics based culture has become very involved in their academia too. The thing about trannies and "gender identity" has become the most ridiculous topic in perhaps hundreds of years so that's why it gets brought up a lot by one side, and the other brings it up because it's their entire personalities.

That's anthropology, not politics. Part of the appeal of anime for many people is because it provides some degree of insight into the assumptions and beliefs of a foreign culture.

>>280534498
Most people watch dubs or subs that localize things

>>280533750 (OP)
There is an obsession with politics but it comes from tourists who think that Japan is conservative wakanda. There's less stigmatization towards lgbt stuff because abrahamic religions don't influence the country like they do in the middle east and west.

The representation isn't perfect, but it wasn't outright censored or ridiculed like it was in the west. You had a lot of sincere stories related to same-sex and transexuality in 70s-90s japan which is why people talk about it. Mainstream stuff like Sailor Moon and Banana Fish had lesbian couples in it.

>>280533750 (OP)
The whole "point" of writing media analysis is to push an agenda, which usually means focus on current partisan issues because otherwise no one will give a shit.
Agenda pushing is not the same as politics.

>>280534640
Japan is a very conservative country compared to western countries. What idiots like you can't seem to understand is that the reason they're more tolerant of homosexuality is merely because extreme condemnation of homosexuality never happened there like it did in the west, and their attempts to westernize and decrease its prevalence didn't leave anywhere near as much of an impact on their culture.

>>280534743
The purpose of encouraging an idea is for political gain though

>>280534778
You're a stupid right-wing tourist and it shows lol.

>>280534879
How does it feel to be so retarded and wrong?

>>280533750 (OP)
You've done the equivalent of finding a big pile of cow shit outside, picking it up, and bringing it into the bar to show your lads. Whats up with you doing this?

>>280534839
Which misses the point entirely. "Politics" covers everything from bin collection to war, (and by some definitions literally everything else too) but not all of those things are partisan issues.
The issue is not politics, it's that you've read a thinly disguised manifesto and are surprised that it's a manifesto.

>>280533750 (OP)
You are trying to escape reality now but you can't. Not even in anime. You would have said completely different thing a decade ago when the Western society was seemingly functional, its media still being powerful and liberalism was still somewhat spreading, even have said "Well, anime weaboo culture is somewhat aesthetic but it doesn't talk about real world issue like supreme and complicated western culture." Burying your head and trashing everything doesn't change anything. The west is on the very edge on the brink and facing the first real consequence of what they have been doing at least for 4 centuries. Again, not talking about it doesn't solve anything.

>>280534743
There's no such thing as "agenda pushing", it's just common sense that they approach those themes because there's less stigmatization towards lgbt stuff.

The reason why people speculate heavily is because LGBT didn't have a consistent label in the past until just recently. Every culture and time period had people crosssdressing or acting on same-sex relationships, they just used different labels and identities for it.

For example, feminine men in the west used to be called faeries instead of twinks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Faeries

We dont have Yaoi or Yuri

>>280533750 (OP)
How does /a/ do it? Even with all it's flaws it still manages to maintain a level of quality far above the other media boards.

>>280533750 (OP)
>reading western book about anime
That was your first mistake.

>>280534911
I don't feel anything because I am not an ignorant and arrogant 20 year old like you lmao. You're not interested in learning anything new besides parroting drivel from a country that you know nothing about aside from mspaint memes.

>remove religion
>people just turn some other lofty concept (identity, power etc.) into their new age bullshit religion instead
>they pretend it's not a religion because they think religions have to involve magic sky daddies, so as long as it doesn't have that they're fine

Transgenderism is literally a religious cult that's managed to have an absurd amount of influence on atheist societies. It's literally the exact same thing as those "weird cult that overtakes the society" factions you get in tropey media but it's fucking real, just like how an actual feminist cult was able to control South Korean politics.

An actual religiousa cult has exhibited power over us and it's just been allowed to happen and nobody has called it out. It's fucking WILD.

>>280535154
Politics is partisan. You're just a conservative crybaby whining about having to hear left-leaning views.

>>280533750 (OP)
Anime was created by a bunch of card-carrying socialists

>>280535337
Your still haven't even tried to defend your pathetic argument. You are wrong.

>>280535383
>Not obsessively hating minorities is religion!
It must hurt having this big of a persecution complex even after the president banned it lol

>>280533750 (OP)
when bible bangers drop the bible

>>280535417
And?

>>280533750 (OP)
Liberalism was a mistake.
RETVRN TO MEIJI TRADITION

>>280534778
I don't think you know much about Japan or Japanese history.

>>280535465
I said that Japan displayed same sex relationships and transgenderism in a positive context for decades, and your refutation was that they didn't? Are you some kind of moron or something?

>>280535485
He's likely referring to trannies demanding that everyone recognize biological men as women. That's very cultish behavior and they were wanting to censor opinions against them. It's pretty mad and still ongoing.

>>280535591
>He's likely referring to trannies demanding that everyone recognize biological men as women.
What is wrong with giving a tiny, irrelevant concession to a small minority group? Or rather, what benefit is there in not doing so?

>>280535568
>and your refutation was that they didn't?
Nope. No one said that. You suggested that they aren't a conservative country and that is very false.

>>280535629
Because it's a false idea and it's pretty retarded. It's like telling a white lie, maybe you'd do that personally but on a national level you can't do that.

>>280535684
Again, what benefit is there, or rather who benefits from not giving up the concession? Please use your head and think about what this is really about, why have you been conditioned to care so much about this? Plase consider who benefits from you believing what you believe.

>>280535749
The benefits are to keep a consistent definition of a word, and follow our current understanding of how biology works. everyone benefits from truth being upheld. The reason the supreme court in the UK found that a man cannot become a woman is because it's not only a retarded idea, but it's also incompatible with hundreds of years of prior laws.

>>280535591
Every group demands respect, that doesn't make it a religion. You're just stupid to think that it is such.

It's the same spiel about climate change or science, the people who say "X is just a heckin religion" line are right-wing Christians who argue in bad faith. You delusionally believe that there's a progressive dystopia in the form of mspaint wojaks to distract from the reality that Christians run government.

>>280535826
Answer the question:
>who benefits from you believing what you believe?

>>280535852
Their behaviour is pretty cultish, they are very zealous and aggressive and that disturbs many people. Can you not make a false comparison.

>>280535631
Any fact is false to stupid tourists like you. Fuck off.

>>280535896
Would you consider the negroes of the civil rights movement to be zealous and aggressive and disturbing many people? Any aspiration social change is always connected with such things.

>>280535894
Everyone benefits, because everyone benefits from truth being widespread and known.

>>280535935
Why are you comparing people telling you you're a man to people being literally enslaved and subject to horrendous conditions? Do you think that's the same?

>>280534498
/pol/ & xitter tier anthropology
the one who fits anime into their ontological westoid framework and not to see what is anime own's ontological framework. (for starters, is an industry above all to get profits. Not some counter-culture movement againts the "shallow" westoid media).

>>280535983
Why are you inventing a backstory, suddenly? Can't you argue impartially?

>people being literally enslaved
The civil rights movement was not about slavery, anon. I don't think you know what you are talking about.

>>280535943
Don't you think that having an easy minority to pick on might be convenient for people with a political agenda? Convincing people that an inconsequential minority presents an assault on "truth" itself seems like a very convenient way to win people over to your side.

>>280536047
You're the one bringing up american things and expecting everyone to know and care. Black people before the civil rights movement were still subject to discrimination and inferior social conditions. You aren't, you can receive the same opportunities as anyone else. Black people couldn't get that.

>>280535935
first of all go back
second of all, your analogy is flawed, if the negroes had considered themselves the supreme race, that would be more akin to the lgbt cult that exists today. They are religious about it, and its why nobody likes them, despite the fact that I wish I was a cute girl I can never affiliate with their dumb religious movement.\
now have a shitty thread fags

>>280536125
That's quite true.
>Convincing people that an inconsequential minority presents an assault on "truth" itself
Well saying that a man can become a woman is an "assault" on truth, so you got that right.

>>280535896
>It's cultish because they were mean to me after I sent them a wojak about them killing themselves! >:(
Reality: You're have zero social skills and common sense.

Regardless of identity, people will always be rude to you if you are rude to them. It's the golden rule! But some reason, right-wing idiots like you think that it is heckin bad for minorities retaliate to your rudeness towards them.

You want them to suck it up and hand you roses every time you act disrespectful to them, and that's not how interactions work. Sorry!

>>280536158
>Black people before the civil rights movement were still subject to discrimination and inferior social conditions.
So you are backpedalling.

>You aren't, you can receive the same opportunities as anyone else.
Me? What about me? I told you to not invent a backstory.
Regardless, you can easily verify whether trannis have the same opportunities as everyone else or not. What you find might surprise you.

>>280536181
>first of all go back
No, you go back.

>>280533750 (OP)
The western world has been mind broken into believing that their gender, sexuality and race are the only things that matter to their identity. They accepted it wholeheartedly because it's easier to understand the world this way.
Nazist beliefs are probably related to this somehow.

>>280536213
So, you admit that it is a very convenient tool poltically. Now tell me who benefits from this polticial wedge.
Are the people peddling this acting in your rational self-interest? You like truth, so surely you like rational self-interest as well.

>>280536225
Who are you quoting? many people just don't want to be made to call a man a woman, if you want to look weird and confuse people then do it. But men cannot become women. This sort of antagonization you're doing is very offensive.

>>280536240
What's back pedalling? It was more a confusion on what civil rights movement meant, clearly it wasn't about slavery but widespread discrimination against black people in america.

>>280536282
Being a political tool or not being a political doesn't matter, men cannot become women. So we don't need that sort of thing written into laws. The conspiratorial talk is amusing, you're really are just like the people you oppose.

>>280536240
He's not backpedaling, he's pointing out the fact that minorities are treated worse. Do you see the president writing EOs against your identity? Do you think everyone is treated like a white guy? LOL

>>280536383
I am asking who benefits, nothing more. It's a very normal question, is it not?
You must be very conditioned.

>>280536449
There are likely many people who benefit from taking advantage of people who are against the belief that men can become women. But even if all politicians who say that men cannot become women are evil, it still remains true that men cannot become women. So we do not need laws that say men can become women. Hope this makes sense.

>>280536125
"Inconsequential minorities" don't have near uniform control over the surface web, a fixation on grooming perceived "eggs" into chemically and physically mutilating themselves in private servers, the opportunity to fine people over "deadnaming" and "misgendering", the privilege of invading bathrooms and gender-segregated sports for the opposite gender based on a whimsy delusion, a ubiquitous tendency to manipulate or vandalise informational repositories (e.g., wikis) to peddle disinformation about characters or media, or nearly every mega corporation on Earth actively promoting your dogma.
It's not rights you perverted zombies are complaining it; it's privilege. You want to be a protected class of elites with complete diplomatic and social immunity, where everyone who isn't a tranny is a second-class citisen with zero faith in civil monoliths to employ reason where it's necessary.

>>280535539
It was always political. It just that socialists around the world care about class struggle but American "socialists" only care about gender and race

>>280533750 (OP)
Westoids first and foremost prioritise art as propaganda, an apparatus for worldviews that is to be either 'right' or 'wrong'. It's only natural they try to deconstruct anything and everything to reaffirm their worldviews when their culture has brought them up to be obsessed with bureaucracy, team sports and group think.

They live in a permanent state of self imposed persecution and they claim it is for the purpose of seeking truth, but in reality it's to fulfill their pride and egos. Ofc goldstein as well. Try to burst their bubble and you're either met with a fluoride stare or a cornered dog.

Art for the sake of it is not even on the top 3 considerations for these type of people.

>>280534494
>a lot of people there take their constitution very seriously
Considering that some of them treat it as a religious text written by God itself, that's quite the understatement.

>>280535549
Time and time again, obtuse gaijins have nigh ZERO understanding of the Japanese history, usually have completely opposite context like the Inejiro stabbing.

>>280536495
But why do you feel strongly so strongly about this?

>>280536513
Go outside, please.
Talk to a real human in real life, instead of online bots.

>>280536646
>Go outside, please.
I'd tell you to do the same for once, but civilians deserve to be spared the sight of your balding, 40 year old, lardass frame shambling around listlessly in your granny's old sundress.

>>280536296
>many people just don't want to be made to call a man a woman
You and several other right-wing asshats already don't by calling them every slur in the book, so what the fuck are you complaining about? You receiving criticism for not being respectful? Grow up.

None of you own your assholery as well. You want to pretend that you stubbed your toes by accidently and got curbstomped by fat satanic crossdressers for not using fae/faery pronouns, when in reality you tell tramsgender people that they are ugly people who should kill themselves

>>280536780
Do you make a character sheet for everyone who disagrees with you on the internet? Isn't that a bit weird?

>>280536646
>But why do you feel strongly so strongly about this?
Because men cannot become women. And people don't want to be told that.

>>280536513
>You want to be a protected class of elites with complete diplomatic and social immunity, where everyone who isn't a tranny is a second-class citisen with zero faith in civil monoliths to employ reason where it's necessary.
imagine being this delusional lol

>>280536843
What are you talking about? We just don't want to call men women, that's all.

>>280536622
You're trying too hard

>>280536919
But why is this important to you at the detriment of seemingly everything else?

>>280536938
>imagine
>delusional
Two words that perfectly summarise the ethos of your cult, yes.

>>280537059
No he isn't, he's just telling the truth.

>>280535852

Most groups don't deserve respect, though? I actually don't give a shit about conspiracy theorists and people who believe in aliens, i give them zero respect. Religious people get no respect for me no matter how many institutions or old buildings or special hats they have a claim over, their beliefs are based on nothing provable or tangible. Non-rational belief structures are absolute fucking poison because a peasant child can counter a rational argument, but a non-rational argument is a topdown power move that cannot be refuted by anyone at all.

Trannies deserve no respect because they are delusional weirdoes who believe in, what is essentially, just fucking magic. They think men can become women, even though that's impossible with the current level of science. That means they believe in MAGIC, THEY THINK MAGIC IS REAL. YOU WANT ME TO RESPECT PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN FUCKING M A G I C.

>>280537090
Because the belief that men can become women is nonsensical and so people don't like it.

>>280535629
Because the slippery slope fallacy isnt a fallacy. By conceding to them (Im not even on about politically) you are essentially allowing their delusion to go unopposed. They then demand somethign else, and somethign else after that. They do this because they are almost always mentally ill and/or very self centered narcists. They are not the type of people you can reason with nicely in the vast majority of cases.

>>280536516
This. Legendary anime gods are all communists or socialists, Tezuka, Tomino, Yasuhiko and Miyazaki etc. The backbone cannot hold the last decency of Japan anymore, CIA created LDP domination is now stumbling on Japanese MIGA Sanseito, which Shinji and Rei will be crazy for. This is truly the end time.

>>280537193
What socialist beliefs do they have?

>>280536919
>>280536993
Untrue. The goal of all right-wingers is to be perpetually cruel to any minority for being less white or masculine than them. Transgender people could be literally banned like they are now, and you'd still be whining about them because you're a narcissist who needs a group to shit on 24/7.

The reason why you're so hung up on abrasiveness is because you expect feminine people of any kind to be submissive to you, and it is good that they're not taking any garbage from you.

Not anime

>>280537381
People don't like it when they're told false things like your belief that men can become women. Stop making bizarre accusations against people.

>>280534640
>Banana Fish had lesbian couples
WTF am I reading.

>>280537371
Various. From a naive naturalist Miyazaki to a deeply history-attached seeminly-Trotskyist (maybe he isn't, he just depicted Trotsky as an idealist figure in his manga) Yasuhiko.

>>280536513
>It's not rights you perverted zombies are complaining it; it's privilege. You want to be a protected class of elites with complete diplomatic and social immunity, where everyone who isn't a [ingroup member] is a second-class citizen with zero faith in civil monoliths to employ reason where it's necessary.
That is the aspiration of damn near every semi-coherent group within society, within any society. I don't think that really says anything. Or rather, I don't think one can insist that trannies are a uniquely pernicious group simply because they favor their own safety and rights at the expense of others.

>>280537155
They don't think that magic is real. You're just stupid lol.

>>280537119
Not trans, all of you right-wingers are tools who act and talk the same. Without fail, you get butthurt that people aren't entertaining your unhinged circlejerk of irrationally hating minorities 24/7.

We all see how you act towards minorities both online and offline, but you lie that you stub your toes.

>>280535179
Talking about it doesn'T do anything either. Also there's no point in talking about Western culture when discussing Japanese culture.

>>280537762
It really isn't. The few other outspoken groups that do enjoy and/or make demands for privileges they shouldn't have, like rapefugees in Europe, are deservedly criticised for it.
>>280537836
As opposed to expecting universal praise for a fetishistic, delusional form of roleplaying that has metamorphosed into a cult that's actively aiming to become a privileged class at the expense of the rights and safety of people who aren't deranged beyond repair?

>>280537762
The expense of others is child mutilation, you fuckhead.

>>280538012
Some other examples are scientologists and christian fundamentalists

>>280533750 (OP)
Yay another westerners complaining about westerners thread.

>>280537475
My belief is that I don't give a shit about what 2% of what the population wants to do their body. Many rightfully just see anti-trans beliefs as a red flag, because the people obsessed loathing with them always end up hating other minorities. Did Trump become kind to other minorities after banning transgender people from sports, passporta, and medicare? Nah, he's rounding up brown people with the military to place them in alligator infested concentration camps.

I see this right-wing bullshit for what it is. They love treating minorities like garbage but will hide behind a disingenuous made up excuse.

>>280536919
Largely constructed category number one cannot become largely constructed category number two.
Never mind the fact that historically (and even now) it is/was possible to be deemed unworthy all the associated privileges and duties of one category, or even willingly forfeit them, under certain circumstances; eg., by being a homosexual, by going to war, by lacking secondary sex characteristics, I could go on. You're clinging to something that was consensually determined to begin with, and that's a damn foolish thing to do. The past few decades alone have shown us how easily the consensus can be warped with the right pressure tactics.

>>280538153
You're really rambling here. The main reason so many people oppose trannies is not them mutilating themselves, but them demanding that others become involved in their religion by saying that men can become women. Are trannies banned from male sports?

>>280538012
>>280538031
I'm not glorifying trannies or what they want. I'm pointing out a very unfortunate fact about groupism which your particular biases against trannies is blinding you to.

>>280538206
What are you talking about?

>>280538274
You are indeed glorifying them, which was your express purpose in espousing your particular brand of rhetoric (which aligns exactly with that of trannies) in the thread.

>>280538240
>them demanding that others become involved in their religion
Yet right-wing governments increasingly blur the divide between state and religion.

>>280538010
You can discuss all the historic influences

>>280538361
That's also bad and most people in this thread would agree, especially with them trying to ban anime.

>>280533750 (OP)
Helen McCarthy does this too. I read some 90s to early 2000s books on anime, and she always crops up and she truly has some retarded editorial leftoid political take. Many of which are extra retarded and funnier looking at it in hindsight. Some of that shit is bonkers, like where the fuck did you get some of this shit? Its funny how they never lose an opportunity to on one hand, use anime as a prop to support their worldview, yet at the same time, talk down on the Japanese as backwards.

In the anime encyclopedia from 2001, there was an entry for Only Yesterday. Many of the anime listed in the anime encyclopedia is pretty poor, but for many, it was the best resource you had to find for an anime database. Still, the entry for Only Yesterday is bonkers. Not only did McCarthy feel the need to shove her opinion in it by acting like the movie had a backward anti-feminist message, but I wonder where the fuck she even came up with that, she clearly never watched that movie.

It always seem to be anglos that are extra guilty of this shit. Its like that one faggot /a/non who tries to think One Piece has a political message to be taken seriously.

>>280538405
yes, but it worse than trannies? That's the question isn't it?

>>280538345
Where did I express this?

>>280538012
>fetishistic, delusional form of roleplaying
The only delusional fetishists here are right-wingers writing elaborate rape porn fantasies about minorities that they don't like. Not only do you do this weird shit with trans people, you do it with arab, black, mexicans, etc.
>>280538031
If you cared about child mutilation, then you would oppose Christianity more than you do with transgender people. But you won't because it is a poor excuse to treat minorities like garbage.

You realize you shouldn't argue with this guy in good faith? He makes these threads so he can ban people who disagree with him.

>>280538405
>most people in this thread would agree
Most people in this thread would probably identify as right-wingers; so why is it so common?

>>280538435
Are there people defending christian zealotry in this thread? How many of them use this board? On other boards where they congregate you'll find a large opposition.

>>280538423
>One Piece has a political message to be taken seriously
I mean it does.
It's not good, because one piece is for children, but it certainly does negotiate certain political issues, such as the nature of law enforcement and the way the monetary elites can wield the state's executive power and override any laws they like.

>>280538438
Where didn't you express it?
>>280538440
Moving the goalposts very much does not excuse the fact that you are indeed a delusional, automutilatory pervert.

>>280538440
You're confusing christianity with judaism and islam. Very stupid mistake.

>>280533750 (OP)
>OP mentions western obsession with politics
>thread devolves into troons and chuds arguing about the hecking validity of 2SLGBTQIA+ and BIPOC folx
>frequent mentions of the evils committed by orange cheeto man Blumpf
Lol, lmao it's like pottery.

>>280538485
>Are there people defending christian zealotry in this thread?
Who's talking about that? Are right wing beliefs not religious in themselves? Why do you need the Christian auxiliary. Hitler realized that the Christian faith a problem and heavily sidelined the German protestant church.
As you surely know.

>>280538492
Only braindamaged Westernoid.

One Piece has no fucking political message, does Oda need to shit on you to make it obvious at this point? No, because you cannot segregate fiction from reality.

We cannot have a good argument with westernoid because he will not argue in good faith. He doesn't segregate fiction from reality and he thinks his tribe is 21st century political movements.

>>280538479
Why is what so common? Who is calling themselves a right winger?

>>280538506
>Where didn't you express it?
Can you point to a specific instance and stop wasting my time?

>>280538534
>Who's talking about that?
You brought it up here >>280538361
You're calling people right wing, no one itt is calling themselves that.

>>280538423
>The Japanese are le evil racists because they don't have black protagonists, the proof is obvious 2ch trolls.

God, I fucking anglo, I think Helen McCarthy is in this thread too.

Actually reading this book and somehow the more things change, the more they stay the same. People keep forgetting anime is a medium to tell stories and just think of only the most popular works with the most familiar settings as the norm.

>>280538565
Can I spoonfeed you? Yes. Will I? No. You've had enough catering to as is from institutions and subverted academia.

>>280538546
>One Piece has no fucking political message
But it clearly does.
Why would the different marine admirals discuss their ideas of what justice is?
Why would there be a class of untouchable nobles?
Surely, this is politics, is it not? It might be clumsy, but that's clearly politics right there.

>>280538423
How many non english languages do you speak? Do you read an equal amount of their criticisms of anime?

I am telling you guys to stop responding to the troll in good faith. He hates anime and Japan, he just wants to purge you. Do I need to remind you?
https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/280349990/#280371970_1

>>280538646
I'm not reading your fucking posts you coping retard. Its amazing you want to die on the hill of defending something that even Oda shits on, a childish manga.

You have a mental disorder, its called, you cannot segregate fiction from reality. It doesn't just stop with thinking drawings with children, its starts with people trying to link fiction into reality like you are doing. The Japanese call anime and manga a form of escapism, you and many westernoids try to make it a form of reality.

>>280538550
>>280538586
>no one itt is calling themselves that
Considering the (fair) criticisms of communists/socialists in these threads, the people here don't identify as left-wing. So do you consider yourself a centrist? If so, who do you see as more right-wing than you?

>>280538756
Are you ok? Why are you schizoing out over this?

>>280538546
One Piece is one of THE most geopolitical manga and you must be really, I mean really dull if you can't understand this. Even some clever junior-highs would get some hunch reading it, it is really not that hard anon.

>>280538774
Have you considered that some people don't care about your autistic categories and labels?

>280538629
Yawn.

>>280538620
Westernoids who make these retarded essays did not forget. They are either being intentionally malicious and try to use anime as a prop to push their agenda, or they sincerely believe that anime is reality. You have to remember that many westernoids have a difficulty segregating fiction from reality, so they don't think of stories, they don't care for a medium, to them, fiction is an endorsement of reality. You even see it with one faggot in this thread.

This guy legit opens a book, reads the first page, and starts shitting himself, what the fuck are we doing here. I bet his ass can't even make it to the end of five pages.

>>280533750 (OP)
Too bad, tourist, otaku subculture has always been overtly political and leftist

>>280538240
>The main reason so many people oppose trannies is not them mutilating themselves, but them demanding that others become involved in their religion by saying that men can become women.
There's never been a reality where people uniformly agree on anything, especially online. You're a right-winger experiencing culture shock from realizing that there are different people outside of your segregated white suburban neighborhood. You're an adult and you will meet different people who don't look like you in reality. If you hate that, then you're not mature enough to be an adult.
>Are trannies banned from male sports?
Trump passed an EO about it and withheld state funding from states that did. He also banned gender affirming care and is arresting people who manufacture it. Unfortunately, you don't know that because you're a terminally online crybaby divorced from reality.

Has my life improved from trans bans? Hardly. Not only didn't it pay my bills nor give a house, you're still whining about them as if they control everything. So why the fuck are you bitching about them constantly? You have literally everything that you want and you are still whining that people aren't kissing your ass for it.

>>280533750 (OP)
Not your blog, fuck off.

>>280538756
One can say this thread transcends everything, the root problem is that Westernoids cannot segregate fiction from reality, and this unhealthy attitude produces more unhealthy beliefs.

I think one can say that anon is already extremely mentally ill, he bases his entire life and identifies his tribes on 2010s era politics, something that will disappear and be alien soon. He thinks One Piece is deep, he lives his life only on the internet, it will not take much for his mind to shatter

>>280538818
Playing stupid like this just proves the point that are you right-wing by almost any definition. It's also ironic considering how much you like to label other groups of people.

>>280538970
Would you have said that to a Japanese peasant in the year 1700, who has only ever interacted with other ethnic Japanese from the same province? "You're not an adult"?

>>280538870
>kon satoshi
>oshii
enough proof this is from westoid perspective

>>280538952
opposing your country being occupied by another is not the same as supporting gender ideology

I repeat, read the desuarchive
https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/280349990/#280371970_1
The loser above me made the OP. He wants to purge you.

>>280539056
It's not uncommom for great artists to be forgotten a little after their time and then "rediscovered" all over again later.

>>280539058
I've got bad news for you, anime and manga have been progressive from the start. You tourists are the ones who don't belong here lol

>>280539001
>the root problem is that Westernoids cannot segregate fiction from reality
The root problem is that you believe fiction to be independent of reality. Fiction is always a reflection of reality and the circumstances that produced it. This is what Miyazaki was lamenting in the famous "anime was a mistake" segment. People no longer look towards reality and instead they look towards other fiction. This is largely a symptom of the early to late 2000s and first the LN boom, then the Shousetsu boom. But even in such artless, deeply self-referential works like FUNA trash or other isekai garbage, you cannot escape the realities of what it means to live in Japan. You, as an unlearned outsider, are just blind to this, because you are unaware of what the people this media was made for know.

>>280539001
It does make sense, Japan is an extremely collective society, and yet, we have a westernoid retard who think Japan is a paradise for homosexuals because..get this, in his children cartoon, you see more homosexuals then in Western media in the same period.

Like, holy shit, where is the shame in this guy? Are you really trying to think anime is reflective of real life Japan, didn't we used to make fun of these insane gaiafag weeaboo fantasy. Isn't this a blatant violation of segregation fiction from fantasy?

>>280539056
>Satoshi Kon
>mf Nolan
This Kojima tier of delusion

>>280538970
>There's never been a reality where people uniformly agree on anything
We're not talking about just anything we're talking about whether nor not a man can become a woman. Just fifteen years ago no one would despite this except a very small an at that time uninfluential minority of weirdos. you are completely dishonest and full of rhetoric. The reason people dislike trannies is because they oppose the belief that a man can become a woman.
>you don't know that because you're a terminally online
Following the news about trannies is a certain sign that you use the internet too much. Are trannies banned from male sports?

>>280539055
we do not live in the 18th century anymore, that world is gone has been gone for literal hundreds of years.

>>280535179
>a decade ago when the Western society was seemingly functional, its media still being powerful and liberalism was still somewhat spreading
>2015
Ugh, yeah, now those were the days. Nothing to worry about, just coming back from school to watch the latest Steven Universe bomb on the telly and the latest episodes of Umaru-chan. Maybe play a little Fallout 4 afterwards. Man, they just don't make them like they used to. What's gone so wrong with our society nowadays, bros?

>>280539149
>didn't we used to
You're a tourist and a clown on a mission to spread your echo chamber here

>>280539122
Do you have an example of this progressiveness?

>>280539149
So what do you know about the Edo period?

>>280535383
>>280536556
>>280538423
>>280538849
/thread
>>280539073
Yea its pretty obvious he's trolling.

>>280539149
Where are you from, with that broken English of yours? China or Korea?

>>280539146
>The root problem is that you believe fiction to be independent of reality.

Mask off moment. This fucker just told you all, he cannot segregate fiction from reality. I know this may come to a shock to many people, since we assume all peoples are capable of this. We at first assumed, that this retard is clearly being coy and manipulative and he clearly doesn't believe the shit he spews.

But no, the fact is, this loser cannot segregate fiction from reality. Now, take this type of person, make him live his life on the internet and have the barrier between fiction and reality erode even more, and you can see how life can spew such failures.

Yank the net away from him for a year and force him to live in real life and it would probably cause such amazing trauma for him.

>>280539114
What Japan rediscover is not the same as what westerners do.
For instance, the city pop "boom" was a western thing. On japan it barely made waves.

>>280539146
You jumped on a semantic mistake and decided to ignore his point completely in favor of one he never made.

>>280539276
ESL-kun, you didn't understand my post.
Please read it again, but more carefully.

>>280539224
Otaku subculture is a direct outgrowth of the counterculture in Japan and thus takes a starkly antifascist stance

>>280539302
You need to practice your English language comprehension, because that's not really what was being said or implied there.

>>280539056
The book is called Cinema Anime, and it was released when Kon was still alive, before Paprika came out. I think anime film directors are worth bringing up in the context of the book's subject, especially when they were considered active at the time.

>>280539308
Can you prove that what you are describing as "counterculture" was ever widely considered to be opposing japanese culture?

>>280539308
>le miyazaki
Miyazaki got mainstream fame with Spirited Away anontachi.
Prior that, he was considered one of the founders of the lolicon movement among otakus.

>>280539308
What do you think about GATE?

>>280538506
Go back to writing smut about minorities on wattpad, you're too stupid to have a conservation with adults.
>>280539055
Japan was a multi-ethnic empire that warred with each other for centuries. It was only after they declared themselves a unified monoculture in 1945 that they ceased fighting with each other.
>>280539190
>We're not talking about just anything we're talking about whether nor not a man can become a woman.
Discourse like that happened a century ago, you just stepped out of your gated neighborhood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_Nazi_Germany
>Following the news about trannies is a certain sign that you use the internet too much. Are trannies banned from male sports?
You think that it's "terminally online" to read executive orders from the fucking president? lol

>>280539149
It really is funny, if I were a homosexual in the 80s, I would 100x prefer living in 80s USA over 80s Japan. In Japan, the very strong collective nature of society, where the nail that sticks out must be hammered in, is so strong that it would restrain my own behavior. In many ways, I would be far more closeted in Japan.

Meanwhile, in the USA, there would be tons of major cities and areas that would be supportive of my lifestyle, hell, in some cases, areas exclusively for my kind and I would have many organizational support. So what if there are areas of the USA where people wouldn't like me? I have the freedom of movement. Also, I have the law on my side, because no employer could fire me for being a homosexual. Unlike Japan, in 80s Japan, no law could stop an employer for firing me from being a homosexual, and no one would support me if I were fired for being an open homosexual that I affected day to day businesses.


But I guess if you cannot segregate fiction from reality, 80s Japan is actually the homosexual paradise because...sailor moon or some shit.

>>280539303
That doesn't fucking matter, I barely know what he wants to say because he clearly doesn't fucking know English.
Regardless:
>the root problem is that Westernoids cannot segregate fiction from reality, and this unhealthy attitude produces more unhealthy beliefs.
Is not a semantic mistake, especially if you look towards his other posts, easily idenfifiable based on the broken English used. He very much believes that fiction exists independent of the real world. Which is an incredibly retarded assertion.

>>280539122
Nta but I think he means the Japanese class struggling sovereignist classical leftists are not the same as the current liberal virtue signaling 21st century modern western 'leftism,' which is true.

>>280539368
please look up 大学紛争, you might learn something about Japanese history.

>>280539194
Answer the question

>>280539442
And who thought that this was traitorous to japan and anti japanese culture?

>>280539397
>It was only after they declared themselves a unified monoculture in 1945
1868, but close enough.

>>280539398
>if I were a homosexual in the 80s, I would 100x prefer living in 80s USA over 80s Japan
No, you wouldn't, do you know why I'm saying that?

>>280539336
>screenshoot show how Kon is not as big in Japan as he is in the west
>"is natural nips forget him, they will rediscover him later"
Anon assumed Kon was even "discovered" over there on the first place.

>>280539463
I did.

>>280539397
Projecting your obsession with smut and fanfiction (which your lot disingenuously peddle as "canon" in a lot of cases) on others isn't going to achieve much. Your ideology is as warped as that of the ever-mocked "sovereign citisens", for much the same reason.

>>280537762
>Or rather, I don't think one can insist that trannies are a uniquely pernicious group simply because they favor their own safety and rights at the expense of others.
Their method of attaining this by threatening suicide is textbook emotional abuse and extortion that one would see in a shitty romantic relationship.
This is definitely more vile in an emotional sense than conventional thuggery.

>>280539397
So you don't have an example except some freaky germans, cool.

>>280539146
>The root problem is that you believe fiction to be independent of reality

Its funny how much of an egotistical little fucktard this westernoid is. The Japanese have a very strong belief in the segregation between reality and fiction, and yet, here you are acting like the Japanese think in the same manner as you do. Why the fuck do you think the Japanese can have so much weird shit in their fiction and yet society is more tolerant of it, then most other societies would be. To them, they have a strong belief in escapism. Even the NEETS see it that way. Anime is an escape from reality. Westerners however, seem to almost take anime, and see it not as a rejection of reality, but something which must be manifested in reality. To them, themes in anime are not merely a form of story-telling, a form of indulgement, but an endorsement. This distinction makes you fuckers so much more creepier.

>>280539491
Tell me how that whole thing played out, in your own words. What was going on there, you researched it, right?

>>280539526
He clearly didn't, peabrain

>>280539575
That isn't important to this discussion. Who in japan thought those protests were countering japanese culture? Can you answer that, or does this question reveal how utterly retarded your position is?

>>280535417
This is not true.
Some where left-wing, like Tezuka.
But there were many others with strong conservative bents, like Yoshihiro Tatsumi.

>>280536993
I mean guys still did that. They still do that. They just meant it as an insult

>>280539398
You don't know much about Japan to make a judgement about it because you're an ignorant right-winger (you also dont know about minorities in general), there were plenty of openly homosexual celebritues like Akihiro Miwa who voice acted in Ghibli films.

If you guys don't understand that literally everything Tezuka wrote was full of politics, I don't know what to tell you. It just shows me that you guys barely know anything besides high school comedies from the last 15 years.

>>280539499
I would because you are so brainrotted, you actually think 80s USA wasn't better then 80s Japan when it came to homosexuals. You bring up fucking anime as proof. I bring up the fucking law and how I had far greater protection and community support in 80s USA, but you are so insane that you cannot segregate fiction from reality that you now think Japan was some paradise because Japan had homosexual themes (except of course, Japan segregated fiction from reality and the existence of homosexual themes in Japanese manga was NEVER an endorsement, anymore then lolicon or rape in hentai was an endorsement of these things in real life). Like wtf. And I thought I overly praised Japan too much.

>>280539398
You'd rather live in the height of the AIDS crisis with a massive anti-homosexual stigma perpetuated by Ronald Reagan?

>>280539603
>anon knew Kon was never discovered in japan as western countries did
pretty retarded from anon to post how JOP will rediscover something they did not discover on the first place.

>>280538423
With the boom in One Piece's popularity in recent years, people shouting that Oda is some kind of anarchist-communist who is writing a deep work about fighting back against structures of power in society and pushing for left-wing anarchist freedom, is actually annoying.

>>280539149
>and yet, we have a westernoid retard who think Japan is a paradise for homosexuals
There was an episode of Samurai Champloo where that overseas Dutch trader said something like that and Mugen thought he was crazy. Things never really change, huh?

>>280539682
You literally cannot segregate fiction from reality BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Don't worry bro, Mickey Mouse isn't real, so you don't have to be worried about criticizing Disney, he won't come after you.

>>280539368
Little tourist lol
The entire idea of making "otaku" a self-identification is a declaration of opposition to the mainstream within which that term was a derogatory label even associated with a sensationalized murder, and that invoked the full paradigm of global counterculture, including dabbling in post-modernist ranting, in microcosm for this invented identity.
Or you just look at directly parallel events like The Blue Hearts catching obscenity fines for their boundary pushing performances lol
There never was a closed off postwar Japan, it was fully globalized and started exchanging popular culture very early. The entire aesthetic of delinquents is directly influenced by American movies like Rebel Without a Cause.

>>280539383
You have to string together a bunch of nonsense because you're a tourist who is trying to distract from one of many obvious examples of antifascist sentiments in anime.

>>280539395
The exact sort of slop you expect when mainstream status sets in and the capitalist pressures overrun nearly all creative decisions.

>>280539763
I didn't really understand this non-sequitur, but thanks for the input anyway.

>>280539675
Oh look, its amazing that you are now going to die on the hill that 80s USA wasn't better for homosexuals then 80s Japan because 80s Japan was more accepting of homosexuals because you read a manga that had homosexual themes....

You seriously want to die on this hill. It really is fascinating how much brainrot you have, you HAVE no real ideology, its just pure reactionary drivel to disagree with me even when you are basically disagreeing with yourself.

>>280539764
He was describing progressive politics in japan as "counterculture", not otaku culture. But nice try, what you posted here might have worked on a retard.

>>280539675
Manga and anime are fictional mediums for entertainment. Fiction is not reality. Thus, just because you read more manga and anime doesn't make you have the right to judge Japanese society. You are just are a retard who cannot segregate fiction from reality. Yes, you should be ashamed.

>>280539682
One thing is to mention a bible passage on Astroboy for chunni purposes.
Another thing is to go in deep how a fascist system hurdle science investigation as a layer of the plot like Orb.
Tezuka was the former on its most popular works.

>>280539728
Dear god you are retarded

Gundam painted the future as multicultural 40 years ago, and it's inspired by anti-war sentiment from the Cold War. You're all nuts for not seeing all this stuff. You're probably the kinda person who thinks "people only became political in 2016"

Again, read the desuarchive, I implore you that its obvious the troll is mentally unhinged, there is no point in having a good faith argument with him.

>>280539571
>The Japanese have a very strong belief in the segregation between reality and fiction
Really? Do you know what 時代物 is? I think the Japanese have a comparable idea of fiction as a reflection of reality as westerners do, as ALL human cultures do. What do you think Shakespeare did? Are you not familiar with the Roman plays?
Fiction and reality are always mirrors of one another.

>Anime is an escape from reality
That may be, but it is still a reflection of reality. Gundam is not interesting because it is it big robo fight, but because it is a reflection of Tomino's own cold war anxieties and the general sentiment of the time.
If there is no reality in fiction, there is no merit to it. If you watch your little harem highschool anime nonsense and that schools happens to be built in a specific way, the way nearly all real-life schools in Japan are built and happens to be located on top of a hill, that's reality. That's part of what life is like in Japan. This reality needs to be there to convince Japanese people that this takes place in present day in Japan. There are signifiers of reality.
Reality is everywhere in fiction.
Kurenai no Buta is entirely centered on the political situation in post-WW1 italy and the survivor's guilt of the protagonist after this war.
Like Miyazaki said, reality is what breathes life into fiction. It's what makes things feel real and worth considering. All fiction is partly real, because real people came up with it and brought their own experiences into it.

>>280539843
>>280539716
>You bring up fucking anime as proof.
No, I don't need anime for that. Do you know what AIDS is?

>>280538777
>>280538797
>One Piece is LE DEEP

Why do OPfags enjoy embarrassing themselves? I've read deeper YA novels then One Piece, you know, the type of shit /lit/ would laugh at.

Its funny how thinking One Piece is deep is also a westernoid phenomenon.

>>280539918
The anti war sentiment was popular in many parts of europe and not regarded as countering any culture. It was only americans who reacted so aggressively against it.

>>280539735
>There was an episode of Samurai Champloo where that overseas Dutch trader said something like that and Mugen thought he was crazy.
Compared to the situation in the Netherlands during the Edo period? Japan sure was a homosexual wonderland.

>>280539977
>Do you know what AIDS is?

Yes, proof that 80s USA was so free, that even homosexuals can disobey doctor orders. Would never have happened in 80s Japan.

>>280540000
>One Piece is LE DEEP
I didn't say that, I said it was clumsy and childish, as appropriate for the audience. But it is there.

>>280539553
Not projecting, all of you right-wingers are unhinged weirdos who write pornography divorced from reality.

You can't be a normal person who just masturbates so you write stories about minorities doing sexual acts constantly.
>>280539562
Goes far as greek myths. The idea of transitioning genders was not invented after 2016 when you heard Trump complaining about it. It has existed across cultures for centuries.
>>280539499
It was legislated after 1945
https://web.archive.org/web/20211017061006/http://mmdesign-jpn.la.coocan.jp/shoko/oguma15.htm

>>280539918
Gundam was a toy commercial. You're nuts for thinking fiction is reality again.

>>280539853
Your nitpicking is so lame I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue. Like, you know we're talking about the country where Marxist student groups seized campus buildings and had semi-scheduled skirmishes with police, right? The same pool of radicals who produced a rash of airline hijackings, a pink film director going to cut propaganda reels for Palestinian militants, and even the Lod airport attack.

>>280540010
Absolutely retarded statement that anyone who has ever had a brush with punk music knows to be laughably wrong. Only the US? Nothing significant happened in the UK?
Holy shit reactionary tourists from /v/ and /pol/ are so stupid

>>280538952
>>280539308
The ANPO movement was extremely cross-pollinated between leftists and nationalists that resented America equally but for different reasons. It was a 'big tent' movement.

>>280539764
>bunch of nonsense

>>280540082
Do you have an example widespread belief in the idea that a man can become a woman in the anglosphere?

>>280540104
Can a toy commercial not talk about cold war anxieties? GI Joe was centered on cold war anxieties, what with Cobra speaking in Russian accents. And that was a toy commercial too.

>>280540000
This is true, I can go on 2ch and I don't see Japan treating One Piece as deep. I notice its only retarded Westernoids that sincerely think this. With this thread, its clear that many of them are fucked in the head and cannot segregate fiction from reality, so they think Oda shoving in analogies to make up for his poor writing skills are deep....even when Oda flat out admits that's all he's doing.

>>280540058
I don't think you have a firm grasp on how the AIDS crisis played out. The main problem during the AIDS crisis was that no doctors would give orders like this.
It's like you don't know anything about anything.

People who were oldfags in the 00s writing this kind of content were big libs; the kind of people running websites like Anime News Network. The western anime fandom grew out of VHS tape trading culture on college campuses, and colleges even back then were lib factories.

>>280540196
>colleges even back then were lib factories.
have you ever been to university?

>>280540181
I think I do, the freedom to fuck in New York bathhouses without a care in the world.

Japan would never, the moment they identified AIDS and if they behaved like that, they would have been locked up and given the death penalty.

>>280540132
This is why Miyazaki hate otakus

>>280540241
But that is the issue, nobody "identified AIDS", gays just started dying for some reason and the government officially held the stance that it was divine punishment, so it's fine actually.
Maybe it would have played out differently if AIDS had emerged in Japan, but it didn't.
This is the world you chose. You'd rather be a fag during the AIDS crisis than in Japan during the same time. And now that you realize you've talked yourself into a corner, you can't back down anymore.
You talk a lot, but you don't know anything about anything.

>>280539398
90% of battle shonen, created to be very mainstream and easily palatable and uncontroversial, are about saying 'screw the rules!, beat the system!'
This obviously means that Japan is a society where everyone is a mindless conformist and no one ever believes in the power of standing out.
A country's mass market children's media typically is a good way to understand what its celebrated values are, yet people seem to think that Japan is the nation of harried and long-suffering conformists that are too afraid to stand out up for themselves based on what, exactly?

>>280539889
Very much is. Conservatives have always banned it. LGBT behavior spans culture and history.
>>280539843
The reality is that you don't know the answer since you're a stupid conservative. All of you are ignorant offspring of gated communities who parrot mspaint memes about asians having group ninja genes lol

>>280540113
Nope. He was calling progressive politics counterculture. He was not calling otaku culture that. You're a liar and your lie failed.
>what you're trying to argue.
That being a socialist is not regarded as countering any culture outside of america and maybe some other unusual countries. You want to depict anti war japs as being equivalent to hippies when that is very false.

>Marxist student groups seized campus buildings and had semi-scheduled skirmishes with police, right?
Nothing quite as serious as that but violence occurred during british coal miners strikes like riots. these strikes were led by marxists that were open about it.
>Nothing significant happened in the UK?
Yeah most people opposed the war. So that means most of the people in the UK were following "counterculture" according to your argument.

>>280540326
>You talk a lot, but you don't know anything about anything.
That's you, tourist. You don't know anything about a single topic you shitpost about. You're just here to try to change board culture because you actually hate anime for being as progressive as it is. That's why all of you come here to bitch and moan like you do on /v/, and it's even obvious when you all try to create the narrative that some new show is terrible and poorly received.

>>280539897
Tezuka literally had an anti-Vietnam War chapter in Astroboy.

>>280535568
>transgenderism
Wrong you fucking mentally ill freak, in in modern Japan you have things like One Piece a super mainstream anime/manga in Japan mocking trannies.

>>280540330
>90% of battle shonen, created to be very mainstream and easily palatable and uncontroversial, are about saying 'screw the rules!, beat the system!'
Thats not what Demon Slayer is about
Neither One Piece
Even less Dragon Ball

>>280540404
You say you want to be a fag during the 80s in the US rather than a fag in Japan during the 80s, but you don't know that there's a massive AIDS crisis going on during that time period.
How can I believe that you know what you are talking about? You are just saying things, your knowledge is so narrow.

>you actually hate anime for being as progressive as it is
You're not the retard I am arguing with, who the fuck are you?

>>280538423
Damn, Helen Mccarthy sounds like a bitch

>>280540365
Ohhh, it's you again lol
You've tried this exact shit before where you nitpick endlessly about counterculture despite that you know nothing about it, or about history, or about national cultures in the postwar period, or Japan specifically.
You actually just know nothing and shitpost anyway because you have an agenda as a tourist.

>>280539918
Being anti-war is not a left-wing position in Japan. It is broadly popular across the entire political spectrum.

>>280540468
>One Piece
Isn't One Piece literally about being free of the system and doing what you want?

>>280540469
You kind of defeat the entire point of asking these disingenuous questions based on contrived hypotheticals when you just use slurs anyway. You don't actually care about any of these topics and just try as hard as you can to twist argumentation around and force people to hold strawmen you can beat up. You are an obvious and pathetic loser.

>>280540522
I didn't bring up this hypothetical, he did.
You can easily check this for yourself by following the reply chain.

>>280540468
One Piece is expressly about that.
Dragon Ball gets tons of mileage out of Goku being a free spirit that doesn't care about conforming to society and that making him exceptional compared to everyone else.

>>280540496
Mate, you are arguing with a faggot who cannot segregate fiction from reality. Please do not try to make good faith

>>280540475
Knew it was you. Your argument has failed, again. And it seems you've given up trying to defending now. What's especially funny is that by revealing that it's you, that means you've previously been informed about the anti-war sentiment in the UK, but decided to lie and suggest that the UK was full of vietnam war supportors like america.

>>280540413
this is the same mentality as OP mentioned about non-japanese reaction to girl's crossdressing.
>They mentioned ONCE so its whole work is based on such ideology because...because it does!

>>280540342
>LGBT behavior spans culture and history.
Only in the minds of the academically retarded. Like how there's somehow an inclination that in ancient Greece homosexuality was widespread and accepted because some dumb fuck catalogued a bunch of pottery/artifacts and lied about 99% of the collection portraying homosexuality, or dykes thinking Sappho was this important lesbian poet when it was literally slander from her competitors to discredit her because homosexuality in Greece was reviled. Plus she committed suicide over a man. "LGBT behavior in history" is largely a fabrication to make it look like contemporary attitudes towards fags is ahistorical when in actuality it has been much more intensely negative and fags were always a very small minority on the fringes of society.

>>280540220
Do you not remember the political drama that happened on college campuses during Gamergate just 15 years ago? That was the biggest boiling point of gender hysteria in recent history but American universities have been systemically liberal since the 1960s.

>>280540597
>during Gamergate just 15 years ago
What happened in 2010?

>>280540549
That kind of gaslighting and deflection aren't going to work. You are a 100% disingenuous cunt that would get the shit beaten out of you if you tried this trolling shit in real life. But that's why you're here as a cowardly tourist raging because you hate how progressive anime is and you've been indoctrinated to lash out at good things. You're never going to fit in here, so just kill yourself.

>>280540550
>Analyze mf Goku under a political glass
westoids are beyond help

>>280540496
>>280540561
He's arguing in bad faith, he just revealed it. He's a liar.

>>280540638
Why are you accusing me of doing what you are doing.
See >>280539398

>>280540140
If you think that it was invented after 2016, then you're idiot. There are several examples across history. They didn't suddenly pop out of nowhere. Many openly identify as such now because it is more safe for them to do so behind the internet.
>>280540472
Right-wingers think that any woman is a bitch for not being submissive to them.
>>280540446
lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudine_(manga)

>>280540656
Journey to the West is an explicitly political narrative about the spread of Buddhism to China.

>>280540591
You illiterate, uneducated reactionary dogs are always so funny. You can never be traditionalists because you hate actual history and culture. You're all just vicious parasites who will adopt whatever hateful stance lets you abuse others, no matter how retarded you must pretend to be.

>>280540507
Is about to find the One Piece
Eveything they are doing is to find the One Piece
What the fuck the live action has done with One Piece?

>>280540731
But finding the One Piece is illegal and society doesn't want you to do that. They term the ones who do so "pirates", the people seeking the One Piece are outlaws.

>>280540706
No one thinks it was invented in 2016, that seems to be your own idea. It started becoming mainstream a few years after that though.

>>280540597
dis nigga be living in the future yoooooo

>Anime is political because they hinted this specific progressive topic one time thus its whole existence is due politics

>>280540760
Because the plot is about pirates
Plrates which society existed on the lore way before Luffy was eveb born
So Luffy aint doing groundbreaking shit

>>280540624
Are you old enough to be posting on this site? I don't know if you are being facetious but if you were not paying attention to politics you should research Milo Yiannopoulos's writing and public speaking career in the 10s and watch the Big Red and Trigglypuff college campus public freakout videos as a starting point if you are interested in researching what happened. (Fun fact: Aubrey from Huniepop has an outfit called Big Red that is a reference to this person.)

>>280533750 (OP)
If you were under leftists attack as much as us, you will be >obsessed too, my eastoid friend

>>280540728
Not an argument, and neither is Kenneth Dover's academic fanfiction.

>>280540597
you haven't attended college, you're just an idiot who watched SJW owned compilations.

You do realize how those are made, right? They're not instantly angry after being asked a question. It's people who have been prodded for hours until they yell in frustration for that clip.
>>280540591
No one claimed that it was accepted, just that it existed. Just like it is now. You're an illiterate moron.

>>280540656
Goku being a free spirit is a key part of his character.
Do you just read words on pages without thinking about characterization or anything like that?

>>280540896
But you said "gamergate", which happened in 2014, didn't it? I was there, you know. The steps of cuckolding, if you recall. But I guess you weren't here.
If you had meant right wing nuisance personalities on campuses, you'd have said that. But you didn't say that.

>>280540929
Your manosphere version of history is entirely snake oil published by grifters with no credentials lol
You get laughed at if you repeat any of that stuff to people who actually learn ancient Greek

I have a strong political views, but I dont like forcing it into anime/manga.
But we do not do that, its done by lefitsts woke agenda, ans apolitical Japanese could view as as an ally against our common enemy

>>280534149
the government wont let us kill eachother so it just consumes us.

>>280540879
Yes, but they are escaping traditional society to pursue something you might call a "subculture".

>>280540591
Yeah look at all these morons, that got fooled into thinking the Greeks were gay.

>>280533750 (OP)
>start reading an early 00' western book about anime
and here's where you made a mistake

>>280541030
The only reason you don't force your political views into anime and manga is because you can't due to the overwhelming progressive ideology in otaku subculture that makes it antithetical to your views

You're a tourist

>>280540827
feminists are such a fucking cancer
>you don't deserve love, no matter what you do
and then they wonder why men get angry and become right wing incels

>>280540761
What did you think that the T in LGBT meant, nothing?

If anything, the anti-trans sentiment is astroturfed. Shit has millions of dollars behind it.

>>280541092
Progressive in what way?
Marx has no home in basically any major anime or manga.
So what is your definition of progressivism in this discussion.

>>280540970
A free spirit which only serve to piss off the enemy of the arc which is an alien who destroy planets just because.
thats it

I hate my pure fictional dynamics being polluted by sociopolitical bullshit projections

>>280541110
If your response to being told you aren't entitled to anything is to become a fascist, you were never a good person in the first place

>>280541148
>Marx has no home in basically any major anime or manga
Spoken like a true tourist who doesn't watch anime like /a/'s old cult favorite, [C]

>>280541092
>progressive ideology in otaku subculture
Maybe on reddit, but I don't see them on 4chan
More, a lot of anime consists tropes that makes leftist seethe, for example love, trust, showing affection, cuddles, marriage, selfless friendship etc
example is that >>280540827 post

>>280541043
>escaping
Luffy wanted to be a pirate since he was was shota
he aint escaping from societal norms since the societal norms he knows are the ones from the pirates

>>280541137
That acronym came up about fifteen years ago, before then ordinary people just said gay people. The tranny sentiment is also forced. You can depict yourself as the smart conspiracy theorist who knows the truth, but your belief that a man can become a woman is false and remains so.

>>280541209
>fascist
rent free
go back your reddit

>>280541209
You avoided defining your idea of progressivism and referenced a single show that is itself not Marxist at all to obfuscate that.
Please define your terms, clearly.

>>280541216
And fanservice offends both radical feminist and christian fundamentalists.

>>280541235
>he aint escaping from societal norms since the societal norms he knows are the ones from the pirates
But he also knows that these norms are not the same as the norms of society at large.

>>280541137
People were thinking about transsexuals in the sense of cross-dressers that sucked dick for coke in clubs. Your classic "Lola's", from the song.

>>280541216
>tropes that makes leftist seethe, for example love, trust, showing affection, cuddles, marriage, selfless friendship etc
Except that's a strawman only retards in your echo chamber on /pol/ and /v/ believe in lol
Leftists are the good and moral people who like positive messages and you're the reactionary scum who hates anime for showcasing those ideals in its progressive messaging

>>280541261
Kill yourself back to /pol/, tourist
You don't belong here

>>280541300
I'm not defining shit for you. You just want to waste time because you're a tourist here to shitpost and change board culture. You're disingenuous trash that only needs to be spat upon.

>>280541355
>posted with reddit spacing

>>280541300
That's his tactic, by vaguely defining things it's how he's been trying to depict japs as belonging to the same political cult as trannies. being anti war means you have something in common with 1960's american hippies and they belonged to counterculture and trannies are also counterculture so that means japs support faggots.

>>280541377
you don't think that Japan has a generally more favorable view of such things?

>>280541355
If your definition of progressivism does not contain Marx, what does it contain?
I can't have a discussion with someone when I do not know what the basis of their arguments is.
What do you define as progressive?

>>280541370
You have to seethe so much at being called out that you try another stock insult toward a post where I actually used this site's spacing standard lol
You tourists are truly shameless when you get mad

>>280541402
They are more tolerant than the west was forty years ago, that's about it.

>>280535383
Well you have to believe in something. Religion is the best because at least you worship a God rather than other humans.

>>280541377
>american hippies
>anti war
Nope, they were against war to drive communists beyond USA's ally land

>>280541408
I'm not having a discussion with you, you're a disingenuous shitposter that would never admit to being wrong despite how obvious the bullshit you say is. That's why you want to waste time on definitions. That's all you want to do, waste time. But you should stop wasting time and kill yourself.

>>280533750 (OP)
>someone interacts with art in a way that's deeper than jerking off
>arrrrggghhhh muh politics
Most of your conceptions about Japan come from shit people on this board just make up and not material reality. You're deeply retarded for wholeheartedly eating up all this slop that retards made up to make themselves feel better. Go live life instead of circlejerking with a guy from south east Asia who totally is aware of society and not a deeply sickening shut in who is five minutes away from blowing his brains out in the bathroom stall of an internet Cafe.

>>280541337
And still wants to be a pirate
He is not escaping because he does not see those norms as a threat

>>280541408
Are you in favor of Marx, broadly speaking?
Not his successors, but Marx' writings and ideas.

>>280541402
Cultural relativism rears its head here.
Being anti-war was not the source of a massive split in Japanese society in the 1960s. It is a broadly popular stance across the Japanese political spectrum.
Japan being relatively more accepting of homosexuality, in that being gay is something that goes by "don't ask, don't tell" rules, rather than a socio-religious conflict that ruins families, is merely an artifact of it not being an Abrahamic society. It doesn't mean that works that contain homosexuals are far left-wing by Western standards, unless that is obviously the point of said work. The default assumption should be that they're novelty characters, as that is typically how they're used in Japanese media. With the exceptions being the stand-outs.

>>280541520
But he is escaping.

>he does not see those norms as a threat
That makes it MORE Japanese, don't you think?

>>280541500
Things would be fine if the tourists understood Japan at least as well as anons did before 2010, but the point is that the made up shit they believe about Japan comes from /v/ and /pol/ and is entirely a projection of gamergate and neonazism.

>>280541567
What about trannies though?

>>280541567
THIS
And the rightists accept it, we are not commies who want to invade and destroy any other culture

>>280541571
>more japanese
japan "does not fight" the societal norms because they do not want to cause a ruckus. Not because they are ok with it.
Go back to troonsky

>>280541528
I think Marx's sociology is broadly correct.
His historiography is too broad to not have contradictions, but it is largely correct. Historical materialism is the most accurate way of assessing the past as long as you don't force it.
But I think his politics are reliant on an impossibility regarding people putting greater value on intangible shared economic relations to financial capital as assessed in a laboratory setting, over race, religion, creed, culture, sex, etc.

I also don't see his ideals having any place in the vast majority of anime/manga.
They're not referenced, or even used as a substrate in a mostly invisible sense.

>>280535568
Ok, but now try to say it without trying to act as some smug faggot. You're not some mesugaki to make it appealing. Stop it.

>>280541664
You're predators who want to invade and destroy every culture for personal profit. Every right winger is nothing more than a thief, rapist, and murderer.

>>280541728
At least they aren't liars that pretend not to know that british people were mostly against vietnam.

>>280541717
You said nothing about his economics, when Marx is an economist first and foremost.
But if you accept historical materialism, then future predictions are something of a given, even if they lack immediacy.

What does this thread have to do with Trump, trannies, nazism, and gamergate (I swear, that shit lives rent-free in a leftist's head)?

>>280541664
>I also don't see his ideals having any place in the vast majority of anime/manga.
I hopefully too, they haven't invaded anime yet, but they want to make anime woke slop like netflix. Rightists are fine with the other culture, and even can see them as an ally against common enemy.

>>280541812
rightoids schizoing out, what else could it be?

>>280541759
You're arguing that the British punk scene is not a pivotal reference point for counterculture
You're a tourist and a clown with the most disingenuous arguments ever devised because you're an illiterate, uneducated retard who doesn't know the first thing about any topic

>>280541500
Politics ≠ deep
They are hyper focused on extraneous crap that are giving people actual delusions about the nature of reality and humanity

>>280541825
No they aren't, they're even more anti lolicon than leftists and tend to be hysteric about it.

>>280541759
>british people were mostly against vietnam
British people betrayed poland after ww2, no surprise thet they backed USA betray of the Southern Vietnam

>>280533750 (OP)
I just ignore most American bullshit right now, being media or ideologies, they have ruined fucking everything.

>>280541844
The point of that was to be anti establishment and some of them would dress up like nazis. Maybe americans copied it and made it their counterculture, but for the UK is was just a fad of angry young people.

>>280541871
They're hysteric about it because the anti-pedo stuff on the right is a pretense and nothing more. Every right winger is a pedophile. Yes, every tourist in this thread is a pedophile. That's why they latch on to loli as an entry point into otaku subculture.

>>280533750 (OP)
If I could nuke 3 countries I'd nuke Russia once and USA twice.
>>280541912
You are right, anon. Amerimutts can't understand that others don't give a shit in the slightest about their cultural and political divides. I fucking hate usatards so much it's unreal.

>>280541932
>but for the UK is was just a fad of angry young people
There really is no level of stupidity to which you tourists won't debase yourselves in order to uselessly argue your nonsense

>>280541935
You can't prove that and even if you could it doesn't change anything. it's right wingers who are the most aggressive, hysterical and fanatic about being anti lolicon.

>>280541768
Economics is a type of sociology.
I'm not going to pretend that I read his economic treatises. Nor do I have much interest in them. If there's some math that is key to appreciate for Marx, that is someone else's problem, not mine.
I understand the general Marxist framework of lumpenproles, proles, petty bourgeoisie, bourgeoisie, and old nobility, and I have some basic idea of the modern concept of the professional managerial class. I'm familiar with his idea that companies become less profitable over time.
None of this really matters because most Marxists are far more vulgar than even I am. And being able to document the past with a framework does not make it predictive for the future.

Again, none of this expresses itself in anime or manga in any substantial way.
There are almost zero of each that interface with worker ownership over the means of production or class dynamics of any depth that isn't more based on something like culture, over socio-economic class.
Where is the Marxism?

>>280533750 (OP)
>reads book about anime analysis
>realizes it analyzes anime
>seethes

>>280541836
Right-wingers stopped discussing GG years ago. The movement died the moment infinite took it.

>>280541983
>Amerimutts can't understand that others don't give a shit in the slightest about their cultural and political divides
Maybe 30 years ago. Now culture war spread across the world and invides even anime culture.

>>280541984
Keep deluding yourself then. There wasn't any coherent ideology to it nor intelligence.

>>280541613
Cross dressers are sexual fetish objects in Japanese society.
I don't see them ever respected as normal adults, but are treated as a type of sexual outlet for normal people to 'get their weirdness out'.

>>280541700
They're cowards losing everything, even fantasy, while pretending it's just more of the same shit they shut up and deal with already.

>>280540656
How about that Red Ribbon army though?

>>280542047
the rightoid literally brought up gamergate, anon
See >>280540597

>>280541994
The left would be more aggressive and fanatical about being anti-lolicon but it's generally considered a niche topic about which little can be done because you'd have to smash the capitalist system to stop the proliferation of lolicon materials anyway. Right wingers are hysterical about it because they're virtue signalling to cover up the CP on their computers and that cousin they touched and that ex they assaulted.

>>280540597
We have to do the second Gamergate :3

>>280542053
And ameritards are the cause of it, because they forced everyone else into their own domestic politics. I don't give a shit about Trump, Harris, Epstein, whatever is popular over there, yet even my domestic media feel the need to bombard me with this information on all fronts. I'm more interested in egg prices and migration, but thanks to amerimutts it's all diluted in the mutt oil spill.

>>280541500
Anon
The anime made for fapping was, indeed, made for fapping with not political motive behind it.
Sent an anime made for fapping through the same standards used to measure texhnolyze for analysis is as retarded to equal High School DxD with Bible Black.

>>280542139
In my country formerly the Soviets forced communism, so its not only american problem.

>>280542042
The issue isn't analysis, its projection or cherry picking through the subject as a type form of confirmation bias or to fake proof for your claims.
Very clearly most anime of any type has little link to modern American liberal political issues, but people love to claim that it does as a way of 'owning the incels' that like anime. By 'proving' that they were always too dumb to realize it.

>>280542162
unless you idea of "anime made for fapping" is literally Miru Tights there is likely some politics in there.

>>280542090
>RED! THEY HAVE RED ON THEIR NAME!
>IT MEANS THEY ARE COMMUNISTS!
>IM SO DEAM SMART!
What's next? Team Rocket is an anime parallelism of PETA?

>>280541500
>>280542210
Kill yourselves.

>>280542055
Yeah I mean that's why the British punk scene still isn't a major influence on counterculture that literally still produces new talents. Hmm, wasn't Glastonbury in the news recently for something. Decades later and the same ideas and coherent stances are still around. Unlike you who will disappear forever without being remembered because you're a piece of shit.

>>280542139
No, manga and anime were created by politically motivated artists from the beginning. Japan's postwar politics were global politics, no some strange fantasy of another closed off island.

>>280542290
And so he reveals his hand and there is nothing there at all.

Anime and manga are now chud central. Various mangaka vote for right-wing parties, hate Kurdish people, and want less immigration. This is based.

>>280533750 (OP)
>hates thing
>reads book about it
>gets mad
damn that's crazy

>Japanese inclusiveness: "Let's add these characters to tell a compelling story"
>Westoid inclussiveness: "I'm gonna add this character and I MUST let you know is a minority! With sick jabs at muh oppressive cultural background and constant references towards modern-day politics! What!? (you) don't like it? Then FUCK OFF YOU CHUD! GO OUTSIDE OR GET SOME PSICHOLOGICAL HELP MY GOD! ANIME WAS ALWAYS PROGRESSIVE BECAUSE [generic example about some japanese author that they missed the point about]"
Gee I wonder why ze JPs can pull it off

>>280541983
>>280542139
>doesn't care about things
>can't stop talking about things
damn that's crazy

>>280542355
You're a tourist who was never a fan of anime or part of the target audience. You come here entirely to shitpost about things that trigger you because of the right wing cancer cult into which you've been indoctrinated.

>>280541038
No the problem is that, at one point in time, it was considered proper etiquette in society to not bring up politics out of nowhere, but that flew out the window when retards decided that every single possible facet of society warranted bringing up political bullshit.

>>280542396
Kill yourself, twittertard.

>>280542396
Did a Trump supporter rape you?

>>280542355
The former was popular in the West until through the 90s-00s the concept of 'tokenization' became a popular description of the act.
Where the criticism was that race/sexual representation was merely a checkbox made to fake care about social issues or representation, instead of actual care for them.

Of course, regarding anime they accept a double standard where tokenization in their own media is condemned but any racial/sexual minority or woman character who is 'strong' or 'important' is paraded around as proof that anime is the home of all liberals and progressives.

>>280542139
This is why I just don't consume any American media, be video games, tv shows, whatever, it's always trump is le bad, the news in my country are also the same, le Trump, le Elon Musk, le Epstein list. I seriously want nothing to do with this shit, so I just avoid it as much as I can. And anime is a huge refuge from that.

>>280533750 (OP)

It´s called misdirection. The themes are established and pushed by corporations to distract the masses from other topics. Why those themes? Because they are a) highly controversial and b) don´t require any kind of knowledge whatsoever. In short, topics targeted to the lowest common denominator. Everyone can participate.

Why push it in all kind of cultural products? Basically because of their massive reach. Movies, anime, tv shows are all watched by millions. It is also far easier to discuss politics than it is to discuss artistic, narrative or technical stuff. It also renders the piece of media far easier to shield. Western movies no longer credit poor cinematography, cheap visuals or shit tier storytelling with their failures, everything is blamed on the audiences not being tolerant.

>>280542426
But there is no symmetry, only one side is in constant offensive, and we are just trying to defence.
And any minor attempt to counterattack is saw as an huge thread.

>>280539718
He didn’t think of a rebuttal, what a loser.

>>280542449
Your complaints about anime and leftists are identical to the shit spewed all over twitter lol
You tourists are trying this in all domains because you want a gamergate for anime

>>280542310
There is nothing political on stuff like Oreimo or A Sister Is All You Need to put it under the same scrutiny of analysis of such as The Boy And The Heron.
So yes is nothing there
But neither undermines anime as a medium because le fanservice or le incest themes for lols.

>>280542426
Politics being something that can be ignored relies on you being in a fairly affluent and monocultural society where people generally agree on most things and most problems that you face are fairly minor and not the fault of greater social issues.
That only works in relative golden ages or subsets of populations in those golden ages.

If you live in a bad era, where there are a lot of problems, it is basically impossible to exclude commentary on something political in any long discussions with other people.

How come westerners cannot separate reality from fantasy?

>>280542505
That's a complete fucking lie, people who make politics their entire identity, regardless of ideology, are all oversensitive pussies who start crying and shitting their pants every time something doesn't 100% align with their worldview.

>>280542508
>because you want a gamergate for anime
Anime isn't infested by woke yet, so it doesn't need its own gamergate.
Understand that the gamergate was an defensive action against destroying gaming culture.

>>280542573
how come your retard ESL ass can't understand that all fantasy is based in reality.