Why did they do right that modern shounen can't seem to recapture?

Nothing. All 3 shows are unironically slop. Normies(The main consumers of shounen) are sheep. They hear xyz show is "good" or "the best" from other normies and adopt it as their opinion. Anyone who unironically thinks shit like DBZ or One Piece is even a top25 show is a brain dead ape.

>>280870844 (OP)
Also I am a mexican with down syndrome. not sure why I didnt include that in my post.

>>280870896
>>280870939
You're 30+ years old, it's time to move on and let go of the irrational hatred of popular mainstream anime.

>including wan piss in the big three
It was Bleach, Naruto, and DBZ

>>280870998
>NOOOOO YOU HAVE TO LIKE NORMIE SLOP IT'S IRRATIONAL TO DISAGREE WITH REDDIT
Go back you're not welcome here.

>>280870998
Also forgot to mention my family just got beheaded on Liveleak.

Nothing, they were shounenslop, and can and have been easily replaced by other shounenslop. Shit like Demon Slayer and SmK have shitcanned and humiliated them, proving that just about any other mediocore shounenslop can overcome their legacy.

>>280871056
I don't like Madoka Magika, I don't froth at the mouth with rage about it.

>>280870844 (OP)
Lots of hispanic pandering.

>>280870844 (OP)
It's simple: They take inspiration from real life and from works outside of the anime/manga industry.
>One Piece
Mario, Zelda, comics, cartoons, movies, wrestling, science-fiction, gangster fiction, cowboy fiction, pirate fiction, premodern fiction, folklore, human history, etc
>Naruto, FMA, Bleach, Death Note, Soul Eater, etc
Final Fantasy and Zelda. And what made Naruto such a revolutionary character is that Kishi was the first to model his MC after Bart Simpson.

>>280871044
DBZ is the King. 1P, HxH, & Naruto are the three princes. Lowering the King to the level of the princes is hardly appropriate.

>>280871368
Who tf asked

>>280871421
Who tf asked

>>280871422
Are you a moron? OP did.

>>280870844 (OP)
They were made before social media. This helped them to feel unique.

>>280871456
Nope

>>280871539
What joy do you get out of lying? Don't answer, your posts are worthless.

>>280871607
Rage Against the Regime – August 2nd. Come yell at The Man (or at least mildly inconvenience him).

Alright folks, it’s time to shake off the existential dread, dust off your protest signs, and channel your inner angsty teen because Rage Against the Regime is going down on August 2nd.

WHEN: August 2nd WHERE: statewide, nationwide! WHY: Because the regime sucks and yelling is cheaper than therapy. DRESS CODE: Think less "corporate casual," more "riot grunge meets DIY punk wizard." Bonus points for ironic band tees and cardboard signs that would make your grandma cry.

We’re marching, chanting, maybe screaming into the void (but, like, in a productive way). Bring your friends, bring your dogs, bring your weird uncle who still thinks Rage Against the Machine is just “aggressive jazz.”

Whether you’re there for the cause, the vibes, or just to yell “THIS ISN’T EVEN MY FINAL FORM” in a crowd—this is your moment.

TL;DR: Show up. Make noise. Rage responsibly. August 2nd. Be there or be... moderately oppressed.

>>280870896
You're right One Piece is easily top 5

>>280871656
Top 5 worst shows ever made true

Why do Bleach and HxH fags continue to pretend they were anywhere near the top? DBZ, Naruto and One Piece, they were THE Big Three.
>ummm ackshually the story is better in-
No one cares. Maybe you're right but the big three was about popularity. Those three were the face of shonen for decades.

>>280871790
One Piece didn't exist outside Japan. Bleach and Naruto were global, generation defining franchises.

>>280871790
Also I am transgender. Forgot to type this.

>>280871790
Nta but weren't Bleach, Naruto and One Piece the Big three because they were the three wich always had the cover of shonen jump, and were published in the same period? Dragon Ball is older.

>>280871056
tf are you talking about, pseudo-intellectual? /a/ loves big 3

>>280870844 (OP)
Everything about these shows is overrated.
Long-ass runtimes, incoherent plots, retcons stacked on retcons — total narrative garbage.
Only HxH, Neuro, and Death Note deserve any real respect from that era.

>>280871790
big 3 is a manga that were serialized in the same period, newfag

>>280872014
Post 2016 reddit /a/ does maybe. Don't speak for everyone newfag.

>>280870844 (OP)
interesting worlds, fast pacing at the beginning

>>280871887
it is, big 3 is shonen jump covers

>>280871808
>One Piece didn't exist outside Japan.
What are you smoking? One Piece was huge worldwide in the 2000s.

>>280872020
Exactly this.
People who worship the “Big 3” (lmao) sound like they’ve never touched another manga in their life.

>>280872158
One Piece didn’t really go global until around the COVID era.
It had fans before that — but it was never mainstream. Not even close.

>>280872289
Where the fuck do you live? Alabama? I can tell you for a fact that it was already huge (same size as Naruto) in Europe and Latin America in the Early 2000s.

>>280871790
Why are hunterfags put into this? Maybe 10 years ago, but We don’t want to associate with these shonenshithead discussions and we’re hiatus fucked anyways, who cares about popularity I want chapters.

>>280870844 (OP)
They came out while you were a dumb kid, as opposed to now where you are a dumb adult.

>>280872020
are you joking? bleach literally has a very simple plot

>>280871081
Demon Slayer has no legacy at all besides sakuga

>>280870844 (OP)
the timing, they were made early enough people could appreciate them despite their fault, and even because of them.

>>280873222
I know, and neither do One Piece, Bleach or Naruto.

>>280875429
>one of the 3 most iconic animes of all time will have no legacy
>but demon slayer will, because pretty colors when sword goes woooooooooshhhh

>>280875817
>But demon slayer will
It won't
>iconic
They aren't.

Up to speed now?

>>280875873
in what way are they not iconic? they were popular over 10 years ago and theyre still the only shit people talk about and compare other animes to. under what metric are you defining not iconic besides "i dont personally like them"

>>280871056
How young are you? The Big Three were already the Big Three before R*ddit came around.

Old good? New bad?

>>280870844 (OP)
>Why did they do right that modern shounen can't seem to recapture?
>>280871498
>This helped them to feel unique.
The Big Three all had more unique settings and wortldbuilding than any nu-shonen, which still makes them stand out in contrast.

>>280871808
I'm sorry anon, but not every country outside of Japan is a member state of the USA. Toei deliberately ruined OP in the US, but they had no power in most rest of the world. In my country and continent OP has been huge for at least two decades.

>>280878220
meant to write 4kids, not Toei...

>>280878077
>The Big Three all had more unique settings and wortldbuilding than any nu-shonen, which still makes them stand out in contrast.
Read more manga.

>>280870896
>>280871056
>normie
get out

>>280871044
>>280871790
>dbz being part of the same generation as OP or Naruto
fake oldfag, get out too

Contrarians itt only argument is:
>consume literal bottom of the barrel obscureshitnime by the thousands.Read so much garbage that you collect them like gacha as if you’re winning a race
Fucking K E K
K
E
K

>>280870844 (OP)
they were released when you were so young you hadn't watched anything you could compare them to. that's all.

>>280870844 (OP)
they were some of the last shonen made by actual people and not otaku mangakas like Hori or Fujimoto who have no real life experience

>>280878370
Reading comprehension. Name the nu-SHONEN (per the obvious meaning in the context of this thread, don't play dumb) manga that have more unique settings than the Big Three.

Naruto is outright a combination of insanely kino concepts with incredibly broad appeal
>Ninja with spells, I mean please it was during happy potter, too
>Unique world with bits of the present
>Summoning big ass Kaiju to have them duke it out
>Eye powers, the coolest shit ever SHARINGAN IN THE EYE
>Cool ass AKATSUKI cloaks and clans
>KEKKEI GENKEI
>Actual characters
>Iconic scene after iconic scene after iconic scene
>The authors willingness to humiliate his protag in a humane way, he wins YOU over not just the people in universe
>Insane quality of art given the consistent schedule, meaning the franchise never loosened its grip because of extended gaps
>Easily some of the most memorable villains
>Insane adaptation with the perhaps most recognizable soundtrack in anime history
>Generational episodes that got entire flocks of animators into animating

>>280871790
Hxh was pretty big outside of the US.

>>280878741
>>280880756
but most importantly, which is something I forgot to mention: I am trans and also a mexican with down syndrome.

The big 3 should be yu yu hakusho level e and hunter x hunter

>>280871056
>doesn't deny the 30+ years old part

If we're looking at their entire runs, One Piece is the only one that I'd say is overall better than modern shounen (and it's falling off hard as we speak, so I dunno how I'll feel when it's all said and done). JJK went downhill bigtime, for instance, but so did Bleach and Naruto. It just happened a little quicker because JJK was shorter overall. Maybe it's just that they were a little more earnest and weren't trying as hard to be subversive or whatever.

Honestly, for as much as DemonSlayer was just sort of adequate, at least it was adequate all the way through. But when I think of the truly great battle shounen, I'm going back farther to stuff like DB, YYH, and Saint Seiya.

The reality is that they don’t have original worlds. That’s what matters. Bleach with its soul society. Naruto and One piece with their original worlds.
Most current shonen are just “japan/regular world but more supernatural”.
Shit like fire force, JJK, MHA, have boring worlds.
If you’re gonna just be “regular world but supernatural” at least give it an aesthetic or style like soul Eater, or at least give some “faux originality” like Hxh

>>280873222
It’s been over five years since KnY’s manga ended, and it’s still insanely popular.
I still remember when everyone on /a/ said the Mugen Train success was just a one-time COVID-era fluke,
and that it’d be completely forgotten a few years later.
Yeah… how’s that prediction holding up now?

>>280870844 (OP)
Nothing at all.
The second one of these stops dropping new content people will forget about them just like they always do.
If Dragon Ball almost dies because of that then these 3 can also do that.
People forget that OP keeps releasing new shit on a weekly basis of course people will talk about it despite being old, there's a manga you can go read right now that still has new stuff.
That's why Bleach and Naruto are closer to die than OP.
Nobody cares about bleach, even Kimetsu beats it's ass in anything that matters, Kubo himself is more interesting than bleach.
And Naruto is digging it's own grave with each new Boruto chapter, it doesn't help that Kishi's career might be unironically over

>>280883480
There were entire video-game series (very successful series) and a shitton of merchandise released for Dragon Ball without any anime or manga running. It was one of the most discussed anime throughout the 2000s. It definitely didn't "almost die".

>>280870844 (OP)
>3 twinks.
>right

>>280883480
>>280870896
>NOTHING XDXDXDXD
The Big Three are well written. That's it. Their authors know how to choreograph fights, develop characters, foreshadow twists, create interesting narratives, and have engaging battles. It's not like there's some trick or gimmick to it. Good writing requires skill and craftsmanship. Most writers are terrible, which is why most battle shounen manga are terrible. We just happened to have three good writers working around the same time.

>>280883320
Being popular is its legacy? Wow.

>>280880490
The only one of this three that have a "unique setting" is One Piece. The worldbuilding of Bleach and Naruto are basic af.

>>280883856
>The Big Three are all well written
Kek this might be the most retarded thing I've ever read in my 20 years of browsing.

Combination of a lot of things.
>Post DB/Sailor Moon boom for kids of that generation that brought in another wave of anime fans
>All began airing around the same time in a much less competitive market compared to today
>Absurdly long in comparison, Naruto has 500 episodes, One Piece has over 1000, Bleach is over 300 I'm sure, each one having 70+ volume manga runs and a shit ton of movies, compared to rough 50 episodes of JJK and KnY, alongside having far less chapters and movies, alongside other spin-off material like games
It's just a fundamentally different market with far more competition. Anime is more popular than ever in English speaking countries, but there's far more competition in it (beyond just anime too) and the shows don't go on for nearly as long.

>>280870844 (OP)
Anime aired at the perfect time.

>>280883960
The worldbuilding in Naruto was solid until around Shippuden, when the ninja villages were small and secluded enclaves of hired assassins. Besides, "unique setting" just means it doesn't take place in our world. To a kid reading Jump, there's an added appeal of "Man, I wish I lived there".

>>280871056
>reddit invented the big three

>>280880756
Early naruto was pretty kino. Shippuden killed it for me. Dropped it and would only youtube the sasuke fights.

>>280883988
Delusional fool. Cream rises to the top.

>>280870844 (OP)
Probably the art
I can't even remember the last time we got a jump artist that could draw battle manga well, hori was pretty good but his dumb faces drag it down

>>280870844 (OP)
So, I'm not going to pretend the big three don't have their own flaws. One of the biggest is bloat leading to slow pacing after a certain point(Post-timeskip, Post-Pain, Post-Aizen). They were all too popular and profitable to end in a reasonable amount of time, and are now all still going in some shape or form. That said, most new shounen have the opposite problem. The pacing is breakneck while still having fairly large casts, so it's hard to get attached to the characters. JJK's one of the best example of this. Great fights, but past season 1 the character development falls off a cliff. I didn't give a fuck about anyone who died in the Shibuya arc, even the fake out deaths.

>>280884092
Let's check the subreddit user count for individual manga and I'm sure we'll see what their taste is.
>>280884144
And sugar falls to the bottom it analogy makes little sense. If you think being popular makes it automatically good I guess marvel movies are the greatest cinema of all time.

>>280883320
Honestly? I like KnY a lot.
Compared to the steaming pile of crap that is most of the new-gen stuff,
it’s actually one of the more competent ones.

Ive been on this site long enough to see people here unironically defend Naruto now.

>>280884269
>And sugar falls to the bottom
the hell does that even mean
>B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-BUT TWILIGHT IS POPULAR
Yes, and it's good, objectively. It is well written.
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I'M A PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL, AGING NECKBEARD STUCK IN 2010! GOOD MOVIES ARE THE ONES REDDIT TOLD ME ARE SMART LIKE CHINATOWN
"Good" is not a function of depth, and depth is not a function of value.

>>280884493
You're a 2013 newfag who came here at the tail end of newfags hating Naruto. You never fit in. You never understood our board culture. You always wonder daily why you're told to fuck off and slit your wrists. You cling to the hope that, one day, if you act contrarian enough, maybe we'll accept you and give you the welcome and sense of belonging you desperately crave. But it will never happen. Go drink a bottle of bleach and die.

>>280883320
>Mugen Train success was just a one-time COVID-era fluke
It was
>and that it’d be completely forgotten a few years later
No one cares about it when there's no anime airing

>>280884547
There's no such thing as a pseudo intellectual. Either you're intelligent or you're not and clearly based on your taste and replies you're the latter. I'm happy you're so stuck in your own ignorance that you can enjoy bottom barrel slop then preach online about how the most popular thing is the best. Ignorance truely is bliss.

>>280884547
Naruto is shit doe
>ZOMG NIGGER NINJAS WHO RAP ALSO OVER 900000000 CHAPTERS
This is what you like

>>280870844 (OP)
Right place right time
Can't be replicated because it isn't a fresh and unique experience to an entire new audience the way it was 20+ years ago when these series took off, at least for Naruto and Bleach anyway which are popular in the West. I don't understand what anyone sees in One Piece if I'm honest

>>280884601
Calm down pedro

>>280870844 (OP)
Cool settings

>>280884547
>popular =good
Kek
>>280884601
>naruto is board culture
Double kek you're both newfags
>>280884664
One peice was carried by popularity in Japan for years. It's been a best seller there since the 90s Naruto and Bleach were way less popular in JP but in the west they made a lot of money and gained traction on shit like cartoon network.

>>280884493
Naruto had the misfortune of being popular at a time when anime wasn't as big in the west and was only being watched by those weird kids, so all you'd see would be those cringy naruto fans everywhere.

>>280884650
A pseudo-intellectual is someone who tries to wear intelligence like a costume, because they lack legitimate intellect. Think Mary Bennet from Pride and Prejudice.
And I can preach that the Big Three are the best battle shounen, because they are the best battle shounen. This isn't even a matter of personal preference. Just based on the type of writing humanity enjoys as a whole, the Big Three get things right. They're able to balance setups, development, and payoff without dragging, rushing, or feeling hollow.
That's not to say there's NEVER examples of popular things that just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Demon Slayer, for instance, just happened to appear when the popularity of anime and manga in the West became mainstream.

>>280884664
>Right place right time
Nope. Not even close. Not even 1% of 1% of 1%. Put them in any era, and they succeed.

>>280884823
They love nigger ninjas who rap just like this guy >>280884601

>>280884762
Nope Naruto was a part og /a/ since the beginning
One of the first 4chan banners is Naruto

>>280884860
You like nigger ninjas who rap doe

>>280870844 (OP)
they happened to be competent series that blew up after the turn of the millenium right as the internet started really getting huge

>>280870844 (OP)
Spirit Samurai Pirates Ninjas
Most 2020 shounen is exorcistslop why the fuck do nips like this crap?

>>280884869
You love nigger ninjas who rap tho

>>280884917
Way better than ninjas who rap

>>280884732
Helps that they have good art too
Especially Bleach. The art is god tier
JJK and Demon Slayer art sucks donkey balls
Especially Demon Slayer's which sold 200M copies to retarded Japs

>>280883108
This, you can immerse more in a fantasy world that isnt just Japan. Modern shounens are lazy hacks

>>280884960
Bleach artwork is terrible and for gay retards

>>280884920
Killer Bee is based yeah

>>280885021
>ZOMG I LOVE ZOGMERICA CLIPPED DICK NIGGER CULTURE HEGEMONY ALSO YES CHAD NARDO IMAGE BECAUSE IM GAY
Just kek

>>280884960
I have no idea what is going on on the right one.

>>280885056
It was the 2000s Kishi just finds blacks exotic

>>280885056
You seem upset

The biggest insult to ninja fiction, gay friendship, retarded poop jokes, 700 chapters, plagiarized character designs, only reason this series being popular was because milennials were retarded

>>280884068
>"Man, I wish I lived ina world full of people with special powers like Deku/Yuuji/Tanjiro"
See? Same shit.

>>280884298
KnY is by far the most by the numbers and unoriginal battle shonen of the new gen.

>>280870844 (OP)
They are the manga from last generation of true Japanese people.

Even if they stop immigration fix the birth rate. The population has been to infected by outside ideals, to even remotely be culturally related to prior generations, like those writers are. You would never see a modern writer write the slug, toad, snake dynamics today.

>>280885403
>Bleach inspired KnY
We already knew that

>>280870844 (OP)
worldbuilding

>>280885403
Where's the image with Saint Seiya on the left and Bleach on the right?

>>280885363
The difference is Naruto's world is totally different than ours, while the newer stuff is Japan+powers. They both have elements of wish fulfillment, but that's it.

>>280884650
>There's no such thing as a pseudo intellectual
my god this board is so fucking retarded

>>280880756
Naruto checks a lot of boxes
>fantasy twist on a real world concept
>main character with a secret
>main character with cheat powers
>main character with an evil crisis mode
>a constantly expanding magic system
>organisations and ranks
>school/workplace setting
>edgelord prettyboy rival character
>tons of sexy female supporting characters
>cool mentor
>tournament arc
>"franchise uniforms" (headbands, konoha vests, akatsuki robes etc.)
And so on.

The Big Three were essentially the spiritual successors to:

Dragon Ball set the standard for power-ups, battles, and long-form arcs.

Yu Yu Hakusho introduced darker tones, character-driven rivalries, and tournament arcs.

Slam Dunk showed that shounen could be stylish, character-centric, and emotionally resonant.

By the late '90s, these series had ended or were winding down. The audience that grew up on them was hungry for new long-form series with similar energy.

Their rise aligned with the golden era of internet forums, AMVs, fanfiction, and cosplay. These series became staples of anime conventions and online fandom culture in the 2000s.

>>280887188
>Dragon Ball set the standard for power-ups, battles, and long-form arcs.
>Yu Yu Hakusho introduced darker tones, character-driven rivalries, and tournament arcs.
>Slam Dunk showed that shounen could be stylish, character-centric, and emotionally resonant.
Ring ni Kakero, Captain Tsubasa and Kinnikuman did that way before.

>>280885781
>inspired

>>280870844 (OP)
Only Bleach did anything right which is why it’s influenced every modern shonen. Wan Liss and Nardo influenced nothing.

>>280887618
None of those were nearly as successful or influential, though.

Naruto reminds me of Kingdom Hearts in its appeal, or maybe it's just the abundance of DARKNESS and the Akatsuki and Organization 13 feel similar. Naruto and Sora too. One Piece feels like a successor to the comedy adventure aspects of Dragon Ball.

Naruto had a really unique aesthetic, with the ninja weapons, scrolls, summons, mythical demons, the AKATSUKI as a recurring villain team. The look of Naruto is very popular, not to mention the animation.

>>280871044
One Piece actually did struggle for years in the US because of the 4Kids dub. Alot of people didn't jump on that bandwagon until later.

>>280870844 (OP)
Zoom zooms have the attention span of goldfish. They don't have the patience to see manga play out and see what they'll develop into. If they don't capture them in the first 2 chapters, it's DoA

>>280885403
It is always so pathetic to see Bleachfags try to pretend everyone just copied bleach when this shit can describe a bunch of other stories

>>280870844 (OP)
Demon Slayer mogged all three of them

>>280870844 (OP)
All three are absolutely horrible. They just happened to be the shonen airing in the final era before the internet gave you a choice over what to read/watch. They don't hold up at all; zoomers DGAF and even the millenials who grew up with them have since picked them apart and realized it was slop.

>Bleach
Never really got into this as a kid. Always seemed too "rule of cool"-y for me. That being said I still respect Bleach Friends
>OP
Used to like it until Time skip. Then everything got giga shonen-y and the powerscaling went full retard. Didn't enjoy a single post TS arc, got a quarter way through Wano and dropped it. Also, I REALLY don't like Oda's over exaggerated expressions and character designs. Like you can't look at me and tell me with a straight face that pic rel doesn't look stupid as hell.
>Naruto
Enjoyed what I watched of OG. Enjoyed most of Shippuden, but there were a couple of hiccups with everything before the war arc. Then Kishimoto went full retard during the war. And because of that, I've no interest in Boruto.

Also, aren't the "big 3" dbz, bleach and naruto? Y u trying to re-write history dog?

>>280870844 (OP)
They had cool protagonists who didn't bitch and cry about everything and they went on long enough to build real solid fanbases and long lasting cultural impact. You can say what you want about how great your favorite 26 episode anime is and how impactful you think it was, but it will never hold a candle to the type of influence that something that holds an audience's attention for a decade has.

>>280883988
20 years and you STILL haven't lurked enough to justify posting. Pathetic.

>>280883856
Based and correct analysis. Idk if there's any moment in the history of fiction that had more build up and managed as satisfying of a payoff than Madara's reanimation in Naruto. The Madara hypetrain was the most well deserved hypetrain ever. He was like the boogeyman ever since the series started and to finally reveal him after over a decade and for it to go so right was nothing short of amazing.

>>280870844 (OP)
Interesting settings and originality (nothing is 100% original of course but you know what I mean). Bleach has neither though and instead blew up because of the Ichigo Rukia dynamic that hard carried the series right when the shonen craze started to fly off the handle so it kinda just rode the wave into stardom, kinda like what Black Clover did.
It's not like you need either to still make a great story anyways, CSM (PART ONE, NOT PART TWO) is what I consider to be the best shonen of the past decade because although the setting isn't super interesting and a lot of the stuff you see isn't exactly original stuff, its cast (especially Denji) is so insanely good that it makes up for it.

It's funny people still question the legs of these franchises when Naruto, 12 years after ending, has currently the best selling mobile game in FUCKING CHINA. Motherfucking China of all places.

>>280870844 (OP)
Interesting settings

>>280870896
Nah they're timeless. It's not 2010 /a/ anymore little bro. We don't have to pretend that random shit like Death Note are actually the worst manga ever because normalfags liked it and praise every flavor of middle of road seasonal romcom is the best thing since sliced bread