/a/ is the only board contrarian enough to argue with this

>>281274175 (OP)
Thriller shouldn't be that piece of shit Monster

GL should unironically be Citrus it saved the genre twice in its run time regardless of what you think. Kannazuki no Miko was mediocre and even at the time hardly anyone watched it. Psychological should probably be Eva even if perfect blue is better imo. Madoka is more genre defining than Utenna by a lot. After the first set of movies came out we saw a massive surge in magical girls especially darker stories. Even if Madoka isn't it then it's Sailor Moon.

>>281274316
>Kannazuki no Miko was mediocre
Bait

when you posted this last night you had perfect blue as thriller

>>281274316
Utena is literally considered the best anime ever made or high enough to always hover around top 5 or so

>>281274175 (OP)
>I'm a retarded newfag that's only watched 10 anime, that makes me an expert of anime genres and there historical significance.
nice bait

Psych should be Paranoia Agent.

>>281274416
By fucking who? I never see it on any top 10 lists any 3x3 any favorite threads. It's not even top 100 on any anime site.

>>281274175 (OP)
Since when was Utena a magical girl show?

>>281274416
That's Rose of Versailles

>>281274504
Because most of them are flooded with Shounen garbage by subhumans who don't watch anything but entry level shit. Evangelion isn't top 100 on MAL or anything either

>>281274175 (OP)
>Utena
>magical girl
That doesn't even make sense.

>>281274503
"Psychological" isn't even a genre.

\Great bait pic, made me mad.
>>281274416
Only among Dunning-Kruger normalfags who've seen 5 anime in total. It's NGE of shoujo.

>>281274653

>>281274416
>Utena is literally considered the best anime ever made
Lmao. It's an extremely divisive. As another anon mentioned RoV is way more popular choice for a good shojo anime.
>>281274612
On /a/ you can find plenty of 3x3s that are not filled with shonen and yet utena doesn't appear as often as even something like cardcaptor sakura. You mostly see it on the chart of that dezaki obsessed zoomer.

>>281274175 (OP)
Lain had zero influence at all compared to something like Ghost in the Shell in the sci-fi genre

>>281274175 (OP)
boys love should be boku no pico

>>281274416
RYM - Best anime of all time
>1. NGE
>2. Lain
>3. Bebop
>4. FLCL
>5. Utena
Letterboxd (excluding Shounen / Isekai)
>1. Monster
>2. NGE
>3. Berserk
>4. NGE
>5. Nana
>6. Tatami
>7. Steins Gate
>8. Lain
>9. Utena
Most lists however will have nothing but Shounen and entry level on the lists, so you never see any classic.

>>281274904
>RYM
Insecure pseuds and poser teenagers.
>Letterboxd
Pseuds, redditors and snarky white women.

>>281274930
>Pseuds
Cope and cry

>>281274757
Because the average person is too retarded to get it

Sci Fi is Space Battleship Yamato (don't say Gundam)
Magical Girl is pretty inarguably Sailor Moon since it made the genre into sentaishit for girls.
Slice of Life is probably Heidi.
Psychological is a fake western tag.

The strongest one on the chart is BL.

>>281274316
Shit like Iczer One is more important to yuri than Citrus.
I'll admit my bias is I don't like girl demo yuri stories so I'm not terribly familiar with stuff in that genre from the 00's, but in male demo that ova is really important for the genre existing at all.
>>281274416
Chart doesn't say "bestest ever" it says "genre-defining". Then you're talking influence not quality.

>>281274175 (OP)
None of these defined jack shit except maybe Higurashi, and even that is a stretch, seeing how much it borrowed from Nasu and Chunsoft.

>>281275117
>Kaze to Ki No Uta didn't define anything
>Created the entire genre, lead to Utena which rips it of 1-1 and also inspired Berserk
You subhuman retard

>>281275215
It didn't create shit, because it wasn't the first shonen ai work, just an early one. And every other 70s manga claims to have "inspired Berserk", it's fucking hilarious how long that list is.

>>281274757
>dezaki obsessed zoomer.
I'm older than you

>higurashi is genre defining
was it really? it's common opinion that it falls apart after Tsumihoroboshi

>>281275435
Are you him? The one I am talking about(the 1 with eoe, dyrl, utena, rov, takarajima, katanagatri etc on his chart) is a zoomer or very young millennial at best.
>>281275008
Or maybe they just don't like the comedy or show overall. It's not that hard to understand Utena.

>>281275550
>the 1 with eoe, dyrl, utena, rov, takarajima, katanagatri etc on his chart
Ah, my bad, I know who you're talking about, I'm the other dezakifag

Even if you go by Manga this would be different
Heaven Official's Blessing: 93.2/100 (BL / Fantasy)
Steel Ball Run: 92.9/100 (Shounen)
Little Mushroom: 92.7/100 (BL / Sci-Fi)
I'm averaging the weighted scores across every site and filtering out MAL, so far these are the highest

>>281274175 (OP)
this is a very nice bait image, did you make it yourself?

>>281274175 (OP)
>Girls Love should be Oniisama e
>Magical Girl should be Minky Momo, Cutie Honey or Sailor Moon
>Fantasy should be Lodoss
>Horror should be The Drifting Classroom
>Sci-fi should be Tetsuwan Atom or Kamen Rider, arguably Dragon Ball
>Psychological should be A Drifting Life
>Thriller should be Golgo 13
>Slice of life should be Crayon Shin-chan
Why is Higurashi in Mystery?

>>281275640
Yeah, I was pretty sure you aren't him since that guy was still in school in the mid 10s so his age range is pretty obvious.

>>281274175 (OP)
Is the joke here that most of these have nothing to do with their supposed "genre", but a few of them are correct "enough", to convince people that it might actually be serious?

>>281275833
>using scores to prove a point regarding genre-defining works
>shounen as a genre

>>281275900
>Lodoss
Yeah I am sure lodoss defined the genre... by doing the same d&d stuff that plenty of fantasy ovas have been doing before it. Anyways shit bait thread.

>>281275988
how'd those OVAs sell?

>>281275900
Ah yes, my favorite anime, Kamen Rider and Golgo 13.

>>281275640
What is it you like about the kodomo no jikan manga?

>>281275988
>by doing the same d&d stuff that plenty of fantasy ovas have been doing before it
There were no fantasy ova using D&D as a base before Lodoss.
The only fantasy OVAs released before Lodoss were 1) cute girl in bikini armor with super powers; 2) PC-Engine RPG adaptation or 3) Japanese folklore supernatural
Lodoss created a lot of visual tropes and popularized stuff that was mostly niche before it. Also sold way more than anything else around it.

>japanese twin peaks
>magical girl

>>281274175 (OP)
>psychological
If we are doing nonsense genres where is Gambling genre accompanied by a Kaiji image?

>>281276057
The pic mixes manga and anime, where does it say anime only?

>>281274725
you clearly never watched the show

>>281274175 (OP)
Was this made by reddit?

>>281274175 (OP)
Leave Nausicaä out of this bullshit

>>281274175 (OP)
Is Utena that good? I just watched episode 1 and I found it quite silly, and a little boring.

>>281276125
1) very good artstyle that is both expressive and pleasant to the eye, a rare combination;
2) good paneling, very readable panels with a nice flow, surprisingly visually impactful pages when needed;
3) dynamic characters that act and change due to desires, trauma and reaction to both internal and external conditions;
4) good writing in general;
5) good humour, there's some great humour
6) a very sincere story, I feel like it was written from the bottom of the author's heart

>>281274416
No it isn't

>>281274504
>3x3
>top 100
Cringe

Hentai is Bible Black or La Blue Girl

>>281274504
>It's not even top 100 on any anime site.
Oh no, the horror

>>281275115
>Slice of Life is probably Heidi.
World Masterpiece Theatre is drammatic, not slice of life

>>281276348
>>281276416
>I think a genre defining show wouldn't appear at all anywhere and would be entirely underground
What causes this retardation? There's hyper rare edge cases like when MF DOOM inspired alot of modern rappers but was never as popular but in the case of anime older genre defining shows are regularly pushed and shilled quite literally everywhere.

Nigger slice of life is k on nobody gives a fuck about lain or haibama Rainer or any of that world theater shit its k on.

I hate shitty threads like this. I hate that /a/ can't sage them like back in the day.

>>281274175 (OP)
>Girls Love should be Doraemon
>Magical Girl should be Doraemon
>Fantasy should be Doraemon
>Horror should be The Doraemon
>Sci-fi should be Doraemon, arguably Doraemon
>Psychological should be Doraemon
>Thriller should be Doraemon 13
>Slice of life should be Doraemon

>a bunch of random bullshit and higurashi
>lainshit as "scifi"

>>281276321
Do you feel guilty reading it? And what are you're thoughts on hyouge mono?

>>281276286
It repeats the same transformation sequences from ep1 on the rest of the show every single episode which is kino.

>>281276605
Everyone should feel bad about reading it. Shit was terrible, but at that time Lolis were heavily in season, especially anything with ecchi or sexual implications.

>>281276525
Anime & manga ranking sites have a notoriously bad problem of recency bias and a userbase that will not read nor watch anything older than they are.

>>281276597
Fuck lainiggers

Battle Shonen = DBZ
Magical Girls = Sailor Moon
Shoujo = RoV
Shonen = Pokemon
Harem = Love Hina
Isekai = The Familiar of Zero
Ecchi = Queen's Blade
Hentai = Bible Black

>>281276605
>Do you feel guilty reading it?
No, why would I? Do you feel guilty reading Hyouge Mono, a story about a man who has killed people because he was part of the military chaste of its tyrannical government?
>And what are you're thoughts on hyouge mono?
It's probably my favorite manga, there's nothing like it, from art to writing.

>>281274904
>RYM - Best anime of all time
>>1. 1995
>>2. 1998
>>3. 1998
>>4. 2000
>>5. 1997

>>281276754
>anime was born on Toonami

>>281275115
I probably would have also suggested Banana Fish for BL as an alternative, but on realizing the similar structure and starting a decade earlier I can see why there's a strong argument for Kaze to Ki.

>>281274904
>RYM
the further down the list you go the more you realize how badly they want to fit in. The whole page could be turned into a pretentiouscore meme

>>281274904
>Monster
>Steins Gate
Pseud garbage list.

>>281276597
How in the flying fuck is lain not scifi

>>281276932
Sci-fi means scientific fiction
Lain is clearly not fictional

>>281276794
Since when was RoV on toonami? Or Queen's Blade? If it was Toonami shit this will be the order
>Battle = DBZ
>Magical Girls = Cardcaptors Sakura
>Shoujo = Inuyasha
>Shonen = Kenshin
>Mecha = Gundam Wing
>Sci-Fi = Outlaw Star

>>281274175 (OP)
I love Haibane Renmei but in no fucking universe is it genre-defining
Lain shouldn't be for Sci-fi
Magical Girl should be Sailor Moon, or maybe Madoka depending on how willing you are to count "modern" works over older ones

>>281274904
>Monster
>Steins Gate
Pseud Kino list

>>281276932
Retarded emotionless girl doing nothing for 12 episode while random shit happens isn't scifi, retard.

>>281277047
Did you miss the part where she investigates for 12 episodes inside and outside the Wired regarding the suicide and the mysteries that followed, you nigger?

>>281277010
Madoka didn't influence shit, the trajectory of Mahou Shoujo outside of Pretty Cure was already described by Nanoha, that was more influential than Madoka

>>281277221
This is insane cope. Nanoha had no where near the influence nor popularity of Madoka. Sailor Moon caused a small surge of magical girl media. Madoka caused a tsunami. Shit you could go even further and say Madoka 3 helped cause a surge of non ghibli anime to actually start getting western theatrical releases. Before that it was just special occasions, ghibli and pokemon.

>>281274175 (OP)
Change Lain for Gundam or Yamato

>>281277349
>Nanoha had no where near the influence nor popularity of Madoka
Madoka exists because Nanoha had been an otaku phenomenon for more than half a decade before that, and the market was and is dominated by Pretty Cure, so that anything magical girl related had to find a very defined, different niche.
>Madoka 3 helped cause a surge of non ghibli anime to actually start getting western theatrical releases. Before that it was just special occasions, ghibli and pokemon.
USA is not the world

>>281277459
>Madoka exists because Nanoha
Absolutely not. He's cited as taking inspiration from the idea of it but he praises other non magical girl sources significantly more when talking aboit authors and directors.
>USA is not the world
USA is the most important country on the planet and to deny that is peak retardation. Nothing else you say can be taken seriously at this point.

>>281277588
>Absolutely not
Pretty Cure influenced the entire mahou shoujo landscape for ten years before Madoka by utterly dominating it and kept going till today
>USA is the most important country on the planet
Admitted not granted this idea, how does having more anime movies screened in the USA influence the mahou shoujo genre?

>>281276932
How is Lain scifi?

>>281274175 (OP)
>Genre-defining
>Several are specifically genre defying
Did you just mishear the term or something?

Mecha

>>281277696
>Madoka by utterly dominating it
no, there is nothing quite like madoka out there, because Madoka (disregarding some of the spinoffs) is not a mahou shoujo

>>281274175 (OP)
>Kannazuki no miko
A man of quality

>>281277787
>Madoka is not a mahou shoujo
And Gundam is not a mecha

>>281277746
See
>>281277745
Nge can't be genre defining specifically because it was a critique of the genre

>>281274438
He probably watched thousands!!

>>281277822
To understand the assertion that madoka is not a mahou shoujo, we need to understand what a mahou shoujo is and in answering that, we can understand how mahou shoujo conceptually is different from mecha and why Gundam is mecha, but madoka is not mahou shoujo.
So tell me what's mahou shoujo?

>>281277839
>Nge can't be genre defining specifically because it was a critique of the genre
clueless
so is >>281277746, but that's besides the point

>>281276754
Yup. The good non faggit list

>>281277839
>Nge can't be genre defining specifically because it was a critique of the genre
What the fuck does Eva critique where is a neverending masturbation about how fucking good Ultraman, Gundam, Yamato and Ideon are from beginning to end?

>>281277040
Both are just pseud, nothing more really.

>>281277916
>What the fuck does Eva critique
That mecha genre dominated by stories of governments using child soldiers to control massive war machines, are glossing over the implications of that in order to be more marketable to the youth audience
It critiques both how they are used, and the premise that would lead governments to hand such emotionally fragile children these destructive weapons.

>>281277879
NTA but Madoka doesn't follow the general magical girl tropes in the same way NGE doesn't follow the traditional Mecha tropes. I think people are trying to imply that just because something defys its genre that it doesn't still fall under the category. This of course seems retarded, because in the end Madoka and Shinji both became a Magical girl and Mecha pilot.

>>281277879
>So tell me what's mahou shoujo?
A young girl can use powers that are magical in nature.
The original school of mahou shoujo were domestic adventures where the magical powers helped the girl resolve situations, like Sally the Witch.
Then Go Nagai created the fighting magical girl with Cutie Honey, introducing the henshin sequence, where the magical girl transforms and then uses her powers to fight.
The Pierrot magical girls took the henshin and added it to the traditional formula, while Sailor Moon took it and added Sentai elements.
How is Madoka not a mahou shoujo

>>281274416
I literally don't know a single person with this even in their top 3
You're stuck in a fartsniffer bubble, real people don't watch that shit

>>281277986
>at mecha genre dominated by stories of governments using child soldiers to control massive war machines, are glossing over the implications of that in order to be more marketable to the youth audience
Yes, this is how mecha were before Gundam, then Gundam did
>It critiques both how they are used, and the premise that would lead governments to hand such emotionally fragile children these destructive weapons.
For more than twenty years before Eva, spawning a milion clones. How is Eva, a series that does something that has been done by mecha anime for decades, not a mecha?

>>281278007
>Madoka doesn't follow the general magical girl tropes in the same way NGE doesn't follow the traditional Mecha tropes
What the fuck are you talking about

>>281278007
>NTA but Madoka doesn't follow the general magical girl tropes in the same way NGE doesn't follow the traditional Mecha tropes
That is completely incorrect and to assert such means that you have only watched one mahou shoujo and one mecha, for some reason.

it's not that Madoka "defies its genre", it's that is has little to no relation to any of the 3 major versions of the mahou shoujo genre. It's not a Majokko and I think you'll agree with me on that immediately. It's not a magical fighting girl, either. It slightly flirts with the idea with Sayaka's character, but that is only a small part of the narrative. And it's very much is not a mahou sentai either, because the whole thing is set up as a zero sum game, making cooperation impossible.
It doesn't really fit any of the 3 major types of mahou shoujo. It's something else, which Madoka clones started immitating, but those clones are all complete trash, like Mahou Shoujo Site, which also, despite the name is not a Mahou Shoujo.

Something can use the visual language trappings of a genre, but not be part of it, I know that this is complicated, but do try to keep up.

>>281274725
The source of that is an american book published 3 years ago by a middle aged yuri convention runner

It should not be taken seriously

>>281275640
Did you also notice parallels between Ibuki from Maison Ikkoku and Rin from Kodomo no Jikan, or am I the only one?

>>281278011
>The original school of mahou shoujo were domestic adventures where the magical powers helped the girl resolve situations, like Sally the Witch.
So that's not Madoka

>Then Go Nagai created the fighting magical girl with Cutie Honey, introducing the henshin sequence, where the magical girl transforms and then uses her powers to fight.
So why do the girls fight in those types of stories? Why does Nanoha fight? Why does Sakura fight? What's the reason?
Do the Madoka girls have a comparable reason? They don't.
Clearly, there's nothing in common here, except visual signifiers.

>The Pierrot magical girls took the henshin and added it to the traditional formula, while Sailor Moon took it and added Sentai elements.
There is no sentai in Madoka either.

How is Madoka a mahou shoujo? It doesn't match any of the 3 types you described.

>>281278257
>It's not a magical fighting girl, either
There are multiple fights where the girls transforms and fight against the magical enemy, the witches. Every single girl including Madoka does this

>>281278051
I was literally referring to gundam as the thing that was glossing over those issues.

I think you've worked gundam up into being more mature than it was prior to the 90s

>>281274175 (OP)
Ahhhhh! To be a teenager that has only watched 5 animes, again.

>>281278287
I mean, outside of the teacher-student relationship they're completely different

>>281277986
>glossing over the implications of that
Who is Amuro Ray?
Who is Kamaille Bidan?
I can do this all day.

>>281278298
>Do the Madoka girls have a comparable reason? They don't.
THE WITCHES DO BAD STUFF

Find me a more influential hentai.

>>281278323
But just because they are fighting and transforming and using magic, that does not mean the story is comparable of the magical fighting girl genre, it just means it shares a visual language.

>>281278336
You didn't watch Gundam if you think it glosses over those issues.
There's an entire episode dedicated to Amuro's mother telling his to his face that he's a killer because he was part of the military

>>281278298
>What's the reason?
You realize motivations are irrelevant to genre, right?
A revenge flick is a revenge flick regardless of if it's someone fighting back against someone who killed their family or if it's someone fighting back against a corporation who impoverished a town the MC just happened to visit.

>>281278374
>THE WITCHES DO BAD STUFF
No Sayaka, they fight the witches to eat them, which doesn't really compare to the things any of the other girls do.

>>281278336
>I was literally referring to gundam as the thing that was glossing over those issues.
How's that whole Gundam pilot thing working out for Amuro?
Remember that time Amuro nearly killed himself using Newtype magic because he was so depressed that Lalah died and he wanted to join her on the other side?

>>281278382
No, the narrative is pushed forward by the dynamics created by the magical powers and the magical fighting.
Every character arc is set in motion in the main narrative by the fact that they are magical girl fighting witches

>>281274175 (OP)
I love Higurashi more then probably anyone else on this board, but
>mystery
The fuck?

>>281278404
>>281278362
Ah, y'all are probably just too young to get the difference cause you haven't seen people affected by war in the same way the older generation did.

>>281278411
A revenge story is no revenge story, if there is no reason to seek retribution in it.

>>281278463
I accept your concession. Maybe, if you want to pretend to be old, you should actually watch Gundam. Gundam is really good.

>>281278413
>a witch controls the mind of a group of students and almost forces them to commit mass suicide
>a witch makes Kyoko's father go mad and kill his family
>In general witches lure humans and kill them
The witches are less complex than Sailor Moon enemies, they're basically Ultraman monsters

>>281278257
>multiple fights across the movies but it's not magical girl fighting
>multiple transformation sequences with magical powers, all the girls work together most of the movie and are once again together by movie 3 but it's not sentai
>I know that this is complicated, but do try to keep up.
It must be hard being so far up your own ass. Let's not forget the best of all
>It's just the visual style bro they're magical girls doing magical girl things but it's NOT a magical girl anime.
Kek I almost pity you I can see you slamming away at your keyboard with your fat sausage fingers seething over shows for little girls.

>>281278546
Yes, but nobody cares. That's what I am saying. There is a bitterness here that is so distinct from the magical fighting girl genre.
Kyoko doesn't care about that, in the narrative. She would prefer it if the witches killed more people, so she has more of them to eat.

>>281278463
>you haven't seen people affected by war in the same way the older generation did.
The generation that wrote and made Gundam and depicted what war causes to the youth?

>>281278498
It is
I like it a hell of a lot more than nge
Specifically because of how much more serious nge takes itself in relation to the subject matter.

I'm not saying nge is good. I'm saying it was genre defying, where gundam was genre DEFINING

>>281278463
Tomino was born in 1941.
I think he knows a little more about the things war does to people than you do, buddy.

>>281278571
I accept your concession. Thank you for playing.

>>281278574
>Yes, but nobody cares.
???
People are dying, it's the main driving force behind Madoka wanting to become a magical girl
>There is a bitterness here that is so distinct from the magical fighting girl genre.
What the hell are you talking about, have you watched any magical girl anime?

>>281278576
>>281278599
Are you not native English speakers, or did you seriously not understand i was talking about the inability of the viewer to understand the difference between the stories told by those two

>>281274280
FPBP

Monster is what you get when a talentless mangaka copies generic American TV show that no one remembers. Thrillers are supposed to thrill. If someone made a perfect live action adaptation of Monster, it would show how utterly terrible, idiotic and naïve the source material is.

>>281278627
I guess I'll add illiteracy to the list of your clearly very large list of mental issues.

>>281278627
>Is told they're delusional
>Projects another delusion
It writes itself

>>281278597
>much more serious nge takes itself in relation to the subject matter
There are entire episodes where this "subject matter" goes out of the window to make a tribute to some sci-fi flick that only Gainax nerd watched

>>281278649
Who are "those two"?
Anno and Tomino?
The fuck does Anno know about war, he was born when the post-war reconstruction was already over

>>281278649
Maybe you don't understand what you are writing.

You are saying that there is failed versimilitude to Gundam, way it depicts certain things is not the way they actually are and that the people are you are replying to cannot distinguish between the "false reality" of Gundam and the supposed "true reality" of Evangelion. A valid counterargument to this assertion is saying that Gundam is a reflection of reality, due to the lived experiences of the people who made it.
This defeats both the underlying argument that Gundam represents a "false reality" of the effects of war and the argument that the people you are responding to cannot distinguish the "false reality" as depicted in Gundam and the "true reality" shown in Evangelion.

I hope this explanation helps you.
If you don't know what you are saying, maybe don't act smug about it.

>>281274175 (OP)
Despite being fairly recent i would put sakura trick instead of KnM
Sailor moon is THE magical girl series
Either lodoss or slayers for fantasy
Gundam for sci-fi
psycological maybe paranoia agent
mystery should be detective connan, higurashi's strength is the shock scenes
ironically maybe higurashi would fit thriller
Lucky star is also THE slice of life defining series

>>281274316
Miko was a hit during some years because there were like 5 actual yuri animes at the time

>>281278704
>>281278677
You seem pretty emotional if you are jumping straight to personal attacks. Maybe try making an argument instead?

>>281277040
Steins;Gate is dogshit.

Since people seem confused
Genre: a group of stories (anime in this case) that share similar elements be they setting, themes, plot progression, or designs
Genre-defining: a work that does the genre so well, so cohesively, that it becomes an example which the majority of the genre going forward emulates, or directly and purposefully tries to break from
Genre-defying: a piece of work that is not trying to set a new tone of how works in the genre should be, but instead specifically takes a major element or two and proves that a story can still stay within the genre without those elements
Deconstruction : when you take a genres elements, separate them out and arrange them in a way not normally associated with the genre. This is often used in a genre-defying way, but can also be used in parody, satire, or commentary to point out the flaws of a genre, in hopes of inspiring someone else to produce a new genre-defining work

I think a lot of people here have some of these terms switched around, or incorrectly defined (like using genre instead of theme, or thinking that theme and setting are interdependent)

>>281278923
>Deconstruction : when you take a genres elements, separate them out and arrange them in a way not normally associated with the genre. This is often used in a genre-defying way, but can also be used in parody, satire, or commentary to point out the flaws of a genre, in hopes of inspiring someone else to produce a new genre-defining work
kill yourself

>>281278257
>I know that this is complicated, but do try to keep up.
>>281278803
I hope this explanation helps you.
If you don't know what you are saying, maybe don't act smug about it.

Lmao I didn't think redditors like this actually existed this might be the best thread I've seen in weeks.

>>281278941
Everything okay at home buddy?

>>281278946
maybe you should go back, if you know what people on reddit are like

>>281278973
I didn't until today. This is gold. Type more seething replies with smug signatures. I'm going to start quoting you to my friends.

>>281278958
yeah, how about you? You got any books at home?

>>281278923
>when you take a genres elements, separate them out and arrange them in a way not normally associated with the genre. This is often used in a genre-defying way, but can also be used in parody, satire, or commentary to point out the flaws of a genre, in hopes of inspiring someone else to produce a new genre-defining work
Gundam is a deconstruction of mecha because mecha were not made like Gundam at all before it

>>281278998
I'm glad you are having fun, but since you are new:
You shouldn't take a website like this too seriously, nothing you read here is true or real.

>>281278257
>it's that is has little to no relation to any of the 3 major versions of the mahou shoujo genre.
It's not that complicated. Sakura transforms, talks to a pet, seals cards. Sailor Moon does the same and fights some monsters or whatever.
There's definitely a relationship here; when Madoka or Saiyaka contracts to Kyubei, this is a reference to girls in Majokko and beyond contracting to pets. When they do that, it's a nod to magical girls like SM doing the same thing and then they do it. There might be an intentional difference. It isn't a Shoujo? I don't know.

>>281278803
You misunderstood
I am arguing that the authorial intent of nge was to highlight that there would be far more dire and serious circumstances to lead to government sanctioned child soliders as the sole users of super powered weaponry.
Compared to Gundam, which gives plot reasons to allow for children to fight in the otherwise adult war, with various weaponry that is particularly devastating in the hands of the new generation, not explicitly because of the age of the child.
I'm not arguing that nge did a good job of it

>>281279006
How is that not genre defining then?
Also, just to be clear, you're not talking about the super robo genre right?

>>281274175 (OP)
Psychological should be Tex. Probably the only anime I think is so Psychologically oppressive and uplifting it felt like watching the manifestation of bipolar depression.

>>281279057
>I am arguing that the authorial intent of nge was to highlight that there would be far more dire and serious circumstances to lead to government sanctioned child soliders as the sole users of super powered weaponry.
Why didn't you say so here (>>281278463) or here (>>281278649) instead of this smug bullshit? Whatever you wanted to say, you just didn't say it.
Why are you surprised that when talking about how compared to Gundam, Eva handles the "implications of child soldiers in super war machines" differently, that the counterargument is "well no, actually Gundam does go into the way the war impacts the child soldiers"?
It seems like the natural line of the argument.

What you are arguing now is very forced and no better, because the war in Gundam is existential, Gundam is an explicit cold war story. There clearly are "dire and serious circumstances" that lead to the sanctioning of psychic child soldiers getting superweapons.

>plot reasons to allow for children to fight in the otherwise adult war
You mean like in Eva?
You realize that the age is an arbitrary plot reason and Anno probably got that idea precisely from Gundam.

>>281279315
This is ridiculous so I'm gonna stop being wordy since it's only giving you room to tangle yourself in

Nge is a deconstruction of the genre, not a redefinition of the genre.

Nge highlighted numerous elements that CAN be fleshed out more in mecha stories. That's the whole point. It took themes that normally get a single episode and made them themes of the whole show.

Gundam was genre DEFINING because it took the general themes of mecha and brought them to a whole new level, raising the bar for all mecha going forward, most notably influencing macross.

Nge did not raise the bar, at all, for mecha.

>>281274175 (OP)
I could get past episode 5 of Utena. Is it actually worth trudging through? When does it get good?

>>281279476
>Nge is a deconstruction of the genre, not a redefinition of the genre.
No it isn't, because the term "deconstruction" doesn't mean anything. I can also just say "Gundam is a deconstruction of the mecha genre".

>Nge highlighted numerous elements that CAN be fleshed out more in mecha stories.
Which ones? Be precise. Don't just say "Eva does things", talk about the things it actually does do, otherwise it's like you're not saying anything.

>Gundam was genre DEFINING because it took the general themes of mecha and brought them to a whole new level
No, actually Gundam is very different from the mecha that existed before, because war didn't really feature in anime like this.

>Nge did not raise the bar, at all, for mecha.
That is a very strange thing to say, if you ecall how much mecha anime (and non-mecha anime) changed in the late 90s and 2000s in very specific ways.

>>281279736
>slop
>slop
>serviceable
>slop
>slop
>kino
At least you got 1 right

Yamato did the war theme better than gundam

>>281277729
It's an entire show about technology and the Wired (Internet)
As to how genre defining it is, i'd say it's the biggest of the 2deep4u scifis like Ergo Proxy or Kowloon recently, but there's plenty of other more influential scifis that came before it

>>281274904
What the fuck is Steins;Gate doing there among all of those actually good shows?

Not sure why Lain is so highly regarded It's experimental as fuck It doesn't even have a cohesive plot they tried something new which is good but it can't hold a candle to actual masterpieces

>>281274175 (OP)
>Utena
>Magical Girl
It’s not though, it’s a SHOUJO defining work, not Magical Girl. Magical Girl category should be either Sailor Moon or Madoka.

>>281280294
>it’s a SHOUJO defining work
This is reddit's essential shoujo list btw

>>281274175 (OP)
/a/ is the only board contrarian enough to agree with this.

>KnM
Oh it's this faggot again.

>>281280351
>Putting Fushigi Yugi right next to Yona of the Dawn
kek, Yona is a complete rip-off of Fushigi Yugi though, it’s just Fushigi Yugi non-isekai version.

>>281279053
>Sakura transforms
dumbass secondary

>>281275508
>was it really? it's common opinion that it falls apart after Tsumihoroboshi
Matsuribayashi-hen was the last good entry.

>>281276754
>Shonen = Pokemon
Pokemon is a kodomo series.

>>281275640
>cyberpunk out of nowhere

Why are Yoshitoshi Abe works jacked off to so much by anime fans?

>>281274175 (OP)
>Utena
>genre-defining
can you tell me how it informed later magical girl shows?

Bl should be Jujou Romantica considering its been 20 years and people still think that's how all bl look like.

>>281274175 (OP)
Would battle Shonen be Jojos or DB?

>>281280351
>Cardcaptor Sakura: teacher-student grooming pedo shit
>Sailor Moon: father-daughter incest pedo shit
>Fruits Basket: teacher-student AND father-daughter incest pedo shit
All considered the most “mainstream” of shoujo by the way, this is why no other anime/manga genre besides battle shonen will ever appeal to normalfags, it is quite unironically all full of pedo diddy ahh propaganda, even at the stuff aimed at young girls.

Anon also could’ve at least included Hana Yori Dango in there, which is one of the few genre-defining shoujo manga that doesn’t include typical anime slop tropes like pedophilia and incest and is actually normal in what it uses to appeal to teen girls.

>>281274175 (OP)
>Utena
>Genre-defining magical girl
This list is mostly retarded but this is the most retarded part, Sailor Moon is the genre defining work for magical girl.
You could even say that Madoka has more grounds being called a genre-defining work for magical girls given the amount of copycats of varying degrees it generated in the decade following its airing, be it Yuki Yuuna, all the edgy magical girl mangas, Genei and so on.

Utena came and went without influencing jack shit in the magical girl genre, at best you could put it as genre-defining for girls love but Kannazuki exists and keeps being referenced to this day by people making a parody of its ED picture every fucking time there's even a hint of yuri in an anime while Utena is mostly remembered for its really fucking good OP.

Also
>Sci-fi
>Not Yamato or at worst, Gundam

Madoka is deconstruction of the genre
it can't be genre defining because it's leeching off to its success

>>281280934
dragon ball is an obvious choice even just because of one piece

The genre-defining Girls' Love anime is Marimite.
>But Marimite isn't a Girls' Love anime
Irrelevant. It defined all the conventions and tropes of the Girls Love genre and is still referenced today in most Girls' Love anime, directly or indirectly.

>>281281240
>Madoka so genre defining it spawns the term "Madoka Clone"
Yea whatever you say bro. Madoka is the most groundbreaking and genre defining magical girl anime to date

>>281281118
The Sailor Moon manga did technically inspire Madoka.

>>281281240
>Madoka is deconstruction of the genre
The Sailor Moon manga did it first which Madoka largely ripped off from.

>>281274316
>Kannazuki no Miko was mediocre
Truth nuke, only OP/ED was good.

Since when did genre defining=good?

>>281274175 (OP)
gr8 b8 m8

>>281281461
>The Sailor Moon manga did technically inspire Madoka.
Yeah, I wanted to say "You could even say that Madoka has more grounds being called a genre-defining work for magical girls THAN Utena". Sailor Moon is by far more fit to be called the genre-defining work here.

>>281280351
Why is shoujo so much better than shonen?

Utena isn't a magical girl anime. "Psychological" isn't even a genre.

>>281282013
>Shoujo: Has unironic incest and pedo grooming shit
>Shonen: Doesn’t have pedo or incest content
It’s not better unless you’re a weeb.

>>281280153
S;G is actually a big darling of the pretentious crowd for some reason. The dumb time travel hackery really gets them going.

>>281274175 (OP)
If someone has one or more of these picks in their top 3 you can safely assume that their opinion on art is worthless.

>>281274416
Do you frequent a transgender community? Let me guess, you also think Sailor Moon is a masterpiece.

>>281274820
You can put Lain under psychological but it wouldn't win anyway. As far as Sci-fi you must put either Akira or GitS in terms of influence, probably Akira desu.

>>281277696
Precure just continued what Sailor Moon did earlier. If you're tempted to say Precure, Sailor Moon is a better choice.

>>281282636
>unironic
That's why it's good. Otaku shit is full of irony and cardboard tropes.

>>281278379
I love both but Boku no Pico, of course.

>>281283123
>Comparing Utena to Sailor Moon
The Sailor Moon 90’s anime is for literal toddlers just like it’s successor Precure, whereas Utena is Sailor Moon for actual adults.

>>281274175 (OP)
Utena isn't magical girl.

>>281283250
Nothing that panders to groomers can be genuinely good no.

>>281281632
It was fun, which is more than can be said of 99% of yuri animu.

>>281283303
Do you think The Tale of Genji "panders to groomers" too and is therefore shit? It's art retard. Offensive pandering is what otaku shit does for a profit.

which magical girl show invented transformation scenes?

>>281279053
>Sakura transforms
I like Saying CCS is a deconstruction because this specifically does not happen. But then I dislike the term deconstruction mostly because it's used by people to justify them watching one entry in a genre and nothing else. Not to mention it's typically limited to meaning "dark take on the genre" when there's other ways to play with the expectations of the viewer (though people who watch Madoka with no other experience in the genre or Eva with no other experience with mecha have no concrete expectations to play with). Clamp definitely knew what they were doing when they set up how the typical card confrontation went.

>>281283826
I haven't seen Cutie Honey but someone in this thread said it had them. I've watched a few pre-Sailor Moon magical girl anime and while they may have had transformation sequences they weren't the reusable types like Sailor Moon did. Creamy Mami's transformation sequences for instance differed throughout the series and weren't the stock ones that became emblematic of the genre.

Hime-chan no Ribbon's anime started a few months after Sailor Moon's anime and had transformations that looked more similar to what became normal. I don't know if there would have been time between the two series for Hime-chan's anime to have basically taken the idea from Sailor Moon's anime. And you don't really get anything similar in magical girl manga since it's a different medium.

>>281279476
Yugioh DM is a redefinition of the toyetic genre, later deconstructed by Toei post-DM "what if the world worked on card games" and codifies tropes like "you must use a card game to settle conflict, even the thug or cop operates on the implicit law".
>GX - Deconstruction, handles "implications of child soldiers in card game war machines" . There are academies for card games.
>5ds - adds classicism. zexal - meh, skippable.
>arc-v - deconstructs past sagas further. focus on the career of 'entertainment streamers'. the "using card game to solve conflict" trope is called into question when Sawatari gets mad after losing on a card game and says screw it, deconstructing itself again.
>vrains - inspired by eva, toyetic anime has been deconstructed 5x now, psychological, literary analysis of The Mirror Force scene continues to be studied to this day.

This board will have you convinced Haibane Renmei is the greatest piece of media to ever exist when it’s just good Iyashikei

>>281284547
Never heard of it

>>281283427
>Do you think The Tale of Genji "panders to groomers" too and is therefore shit?
Unironically yes, and the fact it’s considered a literary classic by the nips shows where their values lie and why Texas is right in trying to ban anime.

>>281278275
>変身バトルヒロイン
>According to Saito, the type of fighting girl can be divided into 13 subtypes

>>281284092
>CCS is a deconstruction
Ironically Clear Card seems to be going in that direction…

>>281286480
It's not. The manga's been done and it just got less and less interesting as it went on. What exactly do you even see in it (much less the anime) that you would consider going in that direction?

>>281286596
>What exactly do you even see in it (much less the anime) that you would consider going in that direction?
Sakura’s magical powers being bad for her.

>utena
>magical girl

>>281276448
There are more dramatic WMT shows and Heidi is not one of them.
And if we're talking Drama as a genre, which isn't on OP's list which is funny, the foundational anime for that is in the 60's even earlier.

you may not like it, but this is the guide

>>281280351
>Sailor Moon in the “Action” category and not Magical Girl
That’s cheating anon, you’re just trying to prevent having to choose between Sailor Moon and CCS for the Magical Girl category

>>281287441
>Marmalade Boy
>Thriller
Huh???

>>281284547
>This board will have you convinced Haibane Renmei is the greatest piece of media to ever exist
In what fucking universe? You never see threads for it whilst shit like Lain gets 3 threads a week minimum

>>281287582
Marmalade boy's plot is a wild ride from start to finish

>>281284242
Is it just me or does the beginning of Hime’s Henshin mode look like when Sakura is summoning the Clow Key? Did CLAMP take inspiration from Hime-chan no Ribbon?

>>281283250
> cardboard tropes.
99% of shoujo rely on cardboard tropes and characters

>>281288111
Which one came first?