Thread 283551013

Why are some people so allergic to symbolism? Were they never taught to read a poem in English class?

>>283551013 (OP)
If your sample is only from /a/, then it's because half of us are autistic and the other half are illiterate zoomers.

>>283551013 (OP)
The opposite also happens, English class was terrible and stupid and the poems were terrible and stupid, and now they're tired of bullshit that obviously isn't what it presents itself as and its only reason to be there is a writer thought they were being clever by saying things in a non-literal way even though they also have no fucking idea what subtlety is and think subtext is when you gatekeep understanding from people who don't have your specific random ass interpretation of something that you invented meaning for after you decided it was cool
(I don't have an issue with symbolism, I just relate to people who do because I'm real fucking tired of bad symbolism)

First time I've seen anything Mawaru Penguindrum-related in a while. I've only seen the first few episodes. It's worth finishing right?
>>283551070
You might just be retarded

>>283551170
yeah. /a/ has a yearly rewatch on cytube along with all of the other ikuhara shows if you wanna join them next time

>>283551013 (OP)
>Were they never taught to read a poem in English class?
High school english is the primary cause for the large quantities of midwits present in media discourse online. People need to be taught about the technical aspects of the media they consume, so that they can appreciate the amount of work put into it. Instead we get plotfags discussing plot points ad infinitum. This is true for /tv/ also.

>>283551170
>First time I've seen anything Mawaru Penguindrum-related in a while. I've only seen the first few episodes. It's worth finishing right?
Didn't make sense at the end and I didn't bother doing a rewatch

>>283551013 (OP)
Nabokov laughs at pseud idiots like you.

>>283551198
>metamorphosis is not an allegory

>>283551198
nabokov was a pretty cool guy

Why are you assuming some dumb fuck who gets confused by symbolism is a person rather than a subhuman shounentard?

>>283551188
Oh that's cool! When is it?

>>283551226
next year

>>283551250
Cool, thanks!

>>283551013 (OP)
analyze this

>>283551170
I mean try the first half of the show (about 12 eps) it should give you an idea of what it is
>>283551013 (OP)
a person's ability to understand symbolism is linked to his ability to read deeper into the things that other people say, consider different angles to things. 80% of humanity are only capable of taking things at surface level because they can't be bothered to be kind

>>283551268
The girl, only having one eye, is an allusion to the cyclops which Ulysses fought. As the one eye of the cyclops symbolizes his lack of morals, exemplified in the way he badly treated his guests, Ulysses and his friends, here it symbolizes the girl's inability to see the world as it is. It is no coincidence then that the eye is covered, which represents that it is her will to stop herself from seeing things as they are, and instead to delude herself with her delusions.

>>283551192
So an anime is better becuase it costed more money and work?

>>283551320
this is all explicitly stated in the show, so what point was all that
ps. nice analysis, have a tummy

>>283551268
Her short hair represents she is a lower rank god since kami means both god and hair in japanese. She is on earth to learn about sub-species. She covers one eye to see only 50% of things because ignorance is bliss.

>>283551320
Here's what it really means:
she's covering her eye because it's infected, because I came in it and my sperm is evil. That's the meaning behind demon eye.

>>283551013 (OP)
even when following this show with /a/, I probably didn't understand half of it
should probably do a rewatch some time and see if I manage to figure it out

>>283551013 (OP)
The only time I ever saw people accept "symbolism" is when shippers try to build a narrative to validate their heacanon.

>>283551976
>shipfags using symbolism
does this mean that shipfags is smarter than powerlevelfags?

>>283552004
this always been the case

>>283552015
but powerlevelfags use philosophy and science

>>283551170
>You might be
I am, but that's not it
Symbolism is often a crutch used by pseudo intellectuals to hide bad writing behind a heavy handed application of their themes in a way that gets around not making sense by saying "it's supposed to be that way" as though that was an excuse
I know good symbolism exists
I really appreciate it when I see it
I'm just tired of people excusing bad writing with "it's symbolism!" because yeah obviously it's symbolism but that doesn't change the fact that it sucks

>>283551063
What if someone is both?

>>283552080
Yeah that's fair

>>283552080
>subtlety
now that's some pseudo-intellectualism

>>283551013 (OP)
Sometimes the curtain is blue because it simply happens to be blue.

>>283553118
>t. teen

>>283553124
>t. midwit who never works on any creative work.

>>283553210
genreslop isn't creative work

>>283552080
>Is good when I like It
>Is bad when I don't like it
Groundbreaking stuff here, senpai

>>283553118
Why would you bother mentioning and calling attention to the fact that the curtains are blue for no reason?

>>283553279
Trauma that teens have from getting filtered by English class

>>283553279
Thinking that there's a reason behind everything is such a naive take on the world to cope with your shitty life.

>>283553237
You never create anything.

>>283553363
not beating the teen allegations lmao

>>283553593
>"not beating the [insert random words here] allegations"
What the fuck is that even meant? some kind of zoomer lingo that popular with kids today?

>>283553210
Bro, people who create usually don't like bogging down their work with meaningless descriptions of irrelevant colors of background objects. You set a scene to evoke an emotional state. This mirrors how actual places are decorated, with real lived-in intent behind them, and how your attention is drawn to the details that reinforce your mood. Creatives actually enjoy this emotional resonance. They're not clamoring over themselves to tell you irrelevant shit ("oh btw the curtains were red and the walls were an egg off-white and the table in the middle of the room was a deep oak and the room was 20 square feet and blah blah blah").

We all know you didn't like your book reports in school. Don't worry, nobody actually cares to hear your report about what you didn't experience from a story.

>>283551013 (OP)
Ironically enough, I couldn't understand shit in AP Lit, all while I was really into Penguindrum.

I just read the countless blogs that will tell you all about the symbolism

>>283553718
Don't pretend you ever know the actual intent of author when you just make up shit on the spot to make yourself sound intellect.

>>283553718
You'll never know if those irrelevant details are there to tell some "deep dark secret" meaning or they're just there to not make world feel so empty or they're there because the author simply include scenery that popped in his head when he was writing it.

This guy explain it the best:
https://youtu.be/mzNS4U_aE28?t=245

>>283553921
Why the fuck are you using a midwit breakdown of filmmaking to argue how authors write? One of the major points in adaptations is how much scenes need to be visually fleshed out with props that were never mentioned in the book. That exactly proves the point that authors aren't talking about irrelevant blue curtains in their books.

>>283553251
When did I say that

>>283553363
You can have accidental stuff in movies, but nor books or comics because you have to conciously put everything there yourself.

>>283551013 (OP)
one of the main plot points in penguindrum is a giant machine that grinds children into dust, this is not a subtle or confusing show. the symbolism is very in your face and obvious which is what makes it so emotionally powerful. the only way i could see someone getting confused about this show is if this is the first vaugely experimental thing they've ever watched, or if they had an amazing childhood with no worries, considering what it's about

>>283553363
bro is literally equating life with a fiction that someone wrote

>>283553921
Holly fuck, how do you confuse collaborative endeavors like movies with something like books or manga that are author driven? Are you trying to look stupid on purpose?

>>283554391
Nah, in Penguindrum's case there's actually a bunch of random and ungrounded scenes. Like when Shoma and Kanba are randomly shown in cages being starved to death(?) at the end. Comes out of nowhere, never explained. It's a good show but also a mess.

>>283553279
Some writers are control freaks who just want the reader to imagine the scenes while they're reading them in the exact same way that they did while writing them, so they explain absolutely everything in exhaustive detail.

>>283554536
lol. I don't care about movies and the first sentence is a good point, there could be many reasons behind a scenario description. there will authors who are mid and write whatever like jk. Why are pseuds not able to engage in debate? The moment you don't agree or even question something they said they stop and gain brain paralysis.

>>283554632
>Comes out of nowhere, never explained
it is though? it's the culmination of the idea sanetoshi talks about with people being stuck in their boxes. kanba sharing the apple shows that we can love and look out for each other despite all the suffering. it's pretty much the most important scene in the show i'd say

Most of the time symbolism is just overthinking or it doesnt affect the work at all.

Some people claim sen to chihiro is a metaphore of prostitution, and maybe miyazaki was insipired by it in some way but the movie doesnt show anything related to it all, not even subtle. This people are overthinking.

Eva has some christian references that drive people crazy. For example when an angel dies a cross appears. Is a cool aestethic decision but some people think this is related to jesus and the bible in some deep way. It is not, but if it really is, they are just fucking dying and a cool effect appears.

When a work is obtuse people claim its deep and full of symbolism. In reality is just obtuse and probably a mess. If we overthink actual good works instead you would see everything can have symbolism or be deep and also be good.

Basically, people arent allergic to symbolis, they are allergic to bad written works with 0 sense like the Akira movie or texnolyze, and that's nice

>>283554830
Yes, but where are these cages? What is the context of the scene? You can't just throw random shit into your story with zero context or grounding. Thats what gives people who are anti-symbolism or anything remotely abstract (legitimate) ammo to call something pretentious.
>it's pretty much the most important scene in the show
Which makes the issue worse because it's so important. Some characters like kanba's sister also just felt underwritten. I only watched it a few months ago so I don't know the production context but I wonder if it was actually unfinished or had fewer episodes than planned.

>>283551170
>It's worth finishing right?
Personally I think it's a 10/10 and Ikuhara's best work but I'm sure others will disagree.

>>283552004
Not by much but yes

>>283554972
>reddit spacing

>>283555047
i mean you've already watched an entire show filled with things that can't really be explained diagetically in the plot at that point. it can't be too jarring that it goes fully symbolic for one scene when you already have stuff like the child broiler that makes no sense literally speaking

>>283554391
I will say there is a lot of symbolism which is more subtle than the child grinder or the 1995 Tokyo attacks in the show. It is not a subtle show, but it has subtle elements if that makes sense. Like 10 years ago I got really into it and put together a whole analysis around curry in this show and what I think it represents and says about the thesis. After it was done I have had no interest in going back to the series though, it is one of those that is more fun to analyze than to watch for me.
Still a very unique and worthwhile show, just not nearly as good as Utena. But what is?

>>283554739
They can debate, is you who already decided they're wrong before anyone even start talking.

>>283551268
The ass was too fat

>>283551013 (OP)
they weren't taught critical thinking at all, since the nation is ran by corrupt businessmen that don't want the proletariat to be trained how to scrutinize their policies or doubt their lies

>>283551013 (OP)
I dunno

bump