Thread 283563304

Akatsuki Suppression Mission
Chapter 315: Special Drills!!

Previous chapter: https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/283538797

Start: https://desuarchive.org/_/search/boards/a.desu.meta/subject/Daily%20Naruto%20Chapter/filter/text/page/8/

Dailyramen is busy cleansing the Senjus. I will be posting until he returns.

I don't know why Kishi loved making Naruto so unendearingly stupid for early Shippuden.

>>283563304 (OP)

kill yourself narutard

>>283563329
Naruto not knowing this is too retarded and out of character even for him.

>>283563442
Kakashi constantly monologuing to himself about how stupid Naruto is is pretty annoying.

>>283563694
>Wind nature? Truly this will be your Naruto Hurricane Chronicles

>>283563648
This is the kind of shit that kids should've learned at the ninja academy, not when they're at a chunin+ level like Naruto is.

>>283563694
Thank you OP

>>283563694
>entire chapter is literally just Naru and Kakashi talking to each other and exposition dump
>most of it being shit that Naruto should've already known by now
Amazing.

>>283563497
Why didn't either Jiraiya or Kakashi tell Naruto about this training method when he was already able to create an army of clones in part 1?

>>283563897
Shut the fuck up, stop asking questions Kishi can't answer.

What happened to daily ramen??

>>283563672
Useless training only for lord fugasaku to take the hand.

See ya tomorrow, anons.

>>283564160
Thank you op i love you

>>283564160
Thanks OP Kishi ripped this shit straight from Togashi lol

>>283564181
Hxh ???

>>283563497
Going by this logic, could any character with a large supply of chakra like Tsunade or other Uzumakis such as Karin or Nagato learn the shadow clones jutsu in one night like Naruto did and then do 10-20 years worth of training in 1 week? This is arguably more broken than all of the sharingan wank.

>>283563545
>Naruto already has a large amount of chakra without the nine-tails
Remember that dumb faggot who kept trying to argue that Naruto didn't inherit any sort of power from his Uzumaki genes? Lmao.

Massive exposition dump chapter vs nothing happening wasted panels chapter choose your poison. Most of this should of been covered in Part 1.

>>283564248
Yes anyone can do that , it was always funny how naruto had the most unique jutsu out of all his pupils

>>283564248
It's never explained just how much a shadow clone actually takes beyond it "being a lot". Someone Kakashi can make, like, two or three at most before he's basically out of chakra, somehow. Assumedly, even someone like a Kage, such as Sarutobi can only make a few thus making the method ineffective for them.
Why this method also doesn't work for elemental clones which likely take less chakra to form, I have no idea.

>>283563307
Feels like the regular clone jutsu is from a bygone era.

>>283564332
>>283564248
Most of the jutsus naruto uses are kage level wich is the biggest plot hole imaginable.
Tobirama
created Shadow Clones to counter Sharingan.
Since Sharingan can't tell the difference between a shadow clone and a real person.


developed space teleportation to get around the Sharingan's ability to always track his movements.

Then perfected by minato


And the rasengan was made to replicate bijuu bombs.

>>283563442
This is a retcon.

Hiashi won.

>>283563389
>unendearingly stupid
He has always been stupid as fuck. Motherfucker was a genin that didn't know what chakra is

>>283564449
Why does kishi keep contradicting himself

>>283563307
>>283564381
It feels like they never use "ordinary clones" anyway.

>>283564306
Kurama's power still leaks out even when suppressed. Minato made the seal to fuse Kurama's chakra with Naruto's. We have no idea what Naruto's chakra levels would be if he had zero fox from day 1.

No one told Naruto about this before not even Jiraiya lmao

>>283563857
Would've been funny if every exposition dump chapter had half its pages dedicated to random characters offscreen jobbing to Akatsuki.

>>283563442
Don't worry Kakashi, Jiraiya wasted all his patience and hasn't thought him ever since
Also Naruto not realizing a shit tone of memory experiences once he releases like 6-7 clones every time is stupid

>>283564074
Changed his name to Sakon the Jobber

>>283564515
This is pure cope.

>>283563815
You don't think Naruto slept through that class? Blame the final exam for only testing practical jutsus.

>>283563672
>a unique species of tree
Juubi/Shinju leftovers, probably.

>>283563471
>>283563497
This is.....really fucking stupid and not how training works. You progress because you get better, not because you do the same thing from the start point of 0 many times.
What a stupid hack to justify your protagonist achieving 1000 times more than others despite putting in 1000 times less time and effort

So Jiraiya didn't even tell Naruto about chakra natures either?

>>283563471
Wait, so what exactly accumulates? Only memories?
But how can actual, physical skill sttribute to memories only? And if it's not just memories that is stored and skills are too, then what else does? Why doesn't, say, pain?

>>283564575
That would make sense, but aside from Sasuke none of the other Konoha 11 ever show any elemental jutsu. You would think at least one of them would throw out a big rock or lightning bolt eventually, but no.

>>283564598
It's advanced cramming. It's also treated as though you're doing something multiple times than you actually are and thus you're learning faster. You get better by living through duplicated experiences.

>>283563596
>wow, I had no idea...
YOU SHOULD HAVE. YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT BY NOW

>>283563784
tardrutobro btw

>>283563648
Absolutely did not steal that from HxH btw

>>283563596
Genuinely one of the worst and most pointless additions to the series. Kishi clearly played a videogame or something and then decided his series needed elemental counters 300 chapters in. Something so fundamental that it should’ve been introduced in the academy.
Then he proceeds to shove this shit everywhere in the next two fights with “my lightning beats your earth!!” before forgetting about it right after.

>>283563786
Shippuden is such a stupid ass name

>>283564705
>>283564705
Is this from a specific page or does the power system in HxH just work almost exactly like this?

>>283564575
>>283564641
Realistically speaking, most kids (especially the ones who are like Naruto) would be excited to use those chakra papers and learn what their main nature release would be.

Naruto is extremely fucking stupid in this chapter. Kishi probably regretted Sakura not being around because usually she is honored with the role of confused exposition questions bot

>>283563442
He didn't, five minutes to give him the basics and then is on Naruto figuring it out
>>283563596
Are yin and yang chakra natures?>>283563694
Do we know if Minato had the same?

>>283563897
Shit, my wrist...

>>283564783
Does he know about the elements?

>>283564797
He doesn't have enough chakra to use them.

>>283564598
>>283563471
It kind of works if like a quarter of the clones are all trying something a little different instead of all doing the exact same thing, so you got 4 squads of 250clones each testing different methods until one set gets something right and makes some progress
The 1/1000th of the time seems a little egregious

>>283564500
Him acting like a stupid kid was a lot more tolerable and endearing when he was an actual kid.

>>283564332
Probably shadow clones are the only that shares knowledge

>>283563784
Naruto is considered a complete retard, which makes the stuff he pulls off amazing to people because it's like a downy suddenly figuring how to do advanced calculus.

>>283564657
And yet, this is still not how it works, and anyone who plays sports (which is more accurate to training a jutsu than cramming something) knows that

>>283564500
Yes, but he was endearingly stupid back then.

>>283564767
Honestly, I think all of Team 7 is just composed of retards, but Sasuke and Sakura know how to fool people into thinking they're smarter than they actually are. Kishi already said in an interview that Sasuke actually isn't all that smart.

>>283564733
In HxH, the power system also has multiple natural type divisions, and you have to test your affiliation by using power on a special leaf in the glass of water

>>283564641
The fireball was outside a genin capabilities, very probably it's simply too difficult for most people and after that unless it's a special case like guy and lee genin are trained by their families, not the jonin.

>>283563525
>I can't mantain them long enough
This will be retconned in the shadow clones being free to mantain.

>>283564904
It's hard for characters in Naruto to be no stupid, when Kishi kinda is.

>>283564904
No, Sasuke and Sakura just happened to study. Sure, fooling people into seeming smarter than they are, but that is still miles smarter than Tardruto in here

>Sakura: "Bijuu? Jinchuuriki? What are those? Itachi? Who?"
>Sasuke: "Madara Uchiha? Never heard of him."
>Naruto: "Chakra natures? What? Wait, I can learn from my Shadow Clones. I guess I never noticed, lol."
Our MCs.

>>283563525
>>283564983 (me)
Also them forcing you to divide the chakra in equal portions, rather than choosing, will be retconned.

>>283564897
I hate dumb older naruto. It feels fake, forced, like he’s putting on an act and refuses to drop it. It’s no longer charming

>>283564904
>Sasuke actually isn't all that smart
I think he meant that in reference to not being as book smart as Sakura, otherwise I don't see that, he is portrayed as competent and tactical when he is not being schizophrenic

>>283564721
Maybe it's like high school/college level stuff and not elementary school level
Honestly Sakura probably knew about chakra nature back then and other kids like Shikamaru probably did too, but Naruto isn't much of a reader

>>283563694
Thank you OP.
I think we all know how bs the shadow clone training is.

>>283565007
>Bijuu? Jinchuuriki? What are those? Itachi? Who?"
Neither of these are a common knowledge for people her age. Remember, fellow genins didn't even know Naruto had the fox or Uchiha were killed, why would she know about jinchuuriki or Itachi
>Madara Uchiha? Never heard of him
Konoha wiped him from the history, people like Obito later knowing him is just Kishi forgetting his own world building
>Chakra natures? What? Wait, I can learn from my Shadow Clones. I guess I never noticed
Genuinely retarded

>>283565031
Sasuke brought up Sasuke's intelligence when comparing him to Naruto. And I think there is a databook, I forgot whether it as from the Naruto manga or Boruto manga, that had Sasuke's IQ not too many points higher than Naruto's. Although, Sakura is considered smarter than both.

>>283563415
>>283563442
Naruto is coming across as so retarded in a way that would genuinely register as some kind of cognitive disability
>>283563525
I find it kind of interesting that characters just seem to have different chakra pools, like I can't tell if Kakashi is just poor on stamina by pure chance or if it's because he's not busting his ass off training on the levels of Might Guy

>>283565031
Honestly Naruto pulled a lot more tactical shit than Sasuke did throughout the manga. I honestly kinda like the characterization of Sasuke being secretly a tard like Naruto but he manages to hide it because he's usually a lot calmer.

>>283563497
>You can learn in a week what would take me 20 years if you just use clones
Complete shit. At most it should double your learning rate, or let you train multiple disciplines simultaneously. Shit like this is always executed so poorly and never thought out

>>283563442
>originally this jutsu was used for particularly tricky uchica fucking shits

>>283564470
Fuck off Sasukefag

>>283565090
>didn't even know Naruto had the fox or Uchiha were killed
There were kids literally talking about the Uchiha massacre next to Sasuke a few days after it happened.
>Konoha wiped him from the history
It didn't really do that if Sasuke still knew the statues from the VotE were of the 2 founders of the village.

Who is still reading these?

>>283563525
Sorry if I'm dumb but the whole chakra dividing aspect of shadow clones never made sense to me, is it percentage of chakra based or is there a specific amount of chakra to make one? If it's percentage based, using up 50% of chakra to make one clone seems wrong.

>>283565118
Shit like this also kinda just sucks in concept.

>>283563648
>>283563694
A trope I've always found kind of interesting is wind elementals being portrayed as some kind of slicing attack more than just pushing stuff around, I wonder what's the basis for that

>>283564509
I think I remember situations where they were used
Or maybe I’m gaslighting myself

>>283565090
>Konoha wiped him from the history
If it did they would have destroyed his statue, rather than naming geographical landmarks after his fight.

>>283564733
it's pretty much the same thing though I mean it wouldn't surprise me if some other series before HxH had something similar
However, I feel HxH might have been on Kishi's mind this arc because of what happens with Hidan

>>283565090
Obito called Madara his "honorable forefather/ancestor". That's a very nice way to address someone who is supposedly scorned within the village's history and supposedly wiped from it.

>>283565159
It's not that bad because it means that clone will have 50% of your chakra, but yes, they work better for people who are powerful even with a portion of their chakra

>>283565157
While Yugito is still alive, we continue reading.

>>283565182
Maybe from the kamaitachi? Or maybe because it's the best way to attack for someone using air, the water use pretty often high pressure water jets and drowning

>>283563307
Most "Naruto fans" fail to differentiate those two jutsus.

>>283563525
D-does Naruto think everyone can use chakra power armor in combat? Did he not notice he had so much chakra pouring out of him during Valley of the End it was forming solid limbs to attack Sasuke?

>>283565220
Who is "we"?

>>283563442
>How did Jiraiya
He didn't, a fucking cat did it for him.

>>283565228
Holy shit, is that Akatsuki's mysterious leader?! Their hair is the same.

>>283565228
>I don't know, Minato. Why did you prefer to kill yourself instead of raising him alone?

>>283563648
>>283563596
Is there a personality element to this as well? Yamato said Uchiha have a fiery nature, is that talking about how emotional they can get?

>>283565299
Me and all the other fans of Yugito!

>>283564598
>What a stupid hack to justify your protagonist achieving 1000 times more than others despite putting in 1000 times less time and effort
I kind of feel like Kishi really wanted his own setting-appropriate method to quickly boost up Naruto in a way that doesn't break suspension of disbelief a la DBZ's gravity training, and I kind of get what he was going for with the Shadow Clones on a conceptual level, but man you can really feel that weekly crunch stopping him from really thinking about how the logistics work

>>283565329
No one is reading these, dailywarehouse.

>>283564565
The one coping here is you.

>>283565327
I doubt that, just genetic power type
Kishi didn't care nearly enough about this concept to expand it like that

>>283565289
After seeing neji spamming the rotation and even pushing back his chakra power armor...

>>283564733
HxH also has people find out their nen type with a litmus test.

>>283565182
>>283565249
It's probably originally based on the Kusanagi no Tsurugi, or Grasscutting Sword. It had the power to control the wind by slicing the air.

>>283563545
>4 times more
So if Kakashi can make like 3 clones, Naruto can make... 12? That doesn't really make sense.

>>283564160
>>283563694
>>283564133
Arigatou, OUR LEADER!

>>283565261
There is like three versions of the jutsu.

Clone Jutsu: Clones that are just illusions.
Shadow Clone Jutsu: Clones that are solid.
Multi-Shadow Clone Jutsu: Clones that are solid, but go up to a hundred or more.

>>283565349
Props for stopping your closet-Sakurafag chungus spam once you realized it didn't work

>>283564381
>>283564509
Because it's a weak jutsu that anyone above mid genin level can counter.

Who has a confirmed water nature?

I can't wait to see Neji's chakra nature!
...and Sakura's.
...and Shikamaru's.
...and Ino's.
...and Choji's.
...and Hinata's.
...and Kiba's.
...and Shino's.
...and... Tenten's?
...and... Lee's???

>>283564306
That page does not contradict the fact that Kurama's chakra leaks into Naruto's chakra pool and adding it to his own.
Hell, Kurama's chakra was still leaking when his seal was extra reinforced by Orochimaru.

>>283565432
What are you talking about?

Doesn't Kishi also turn Light and Darkness into chakra natures?

>>283563596
>Wow I had no idea
What? This sounds like a fundamental concept of his world.

What was Naruto even doing all of this time? He knows nothing, has no new moves and act like a child he was at the start of the series. JUST WHAT?!

>>283565482
>99% of the cast will have no confirmed natures outside of databooks

>>283565510
I thought that was just Yin and Yang, e.g. "everything and the kitchen sink falls into here"

>>283565407
In land of waves he could summon like a dozen, even if they didn't fight, after using summoning and raikiri, techniques chakra intensive, but yes it seems like he's underselling the number like he was exaggerating the multiplier of this training. There's also the fact that he shouldn't be able to say how much chakra Naruto has

>>283564935
Neji can span a huge shield of chakra, Kiba and Choji multiple their reserves with dopping, there's no reason not a single one of them didn't use a single elemental jutsu besides Kishi being autistic about shit not fitting the character's gimmick.

>>283565448
Ignthe obvious ones (kisame, Tobirama...) I think hinata had it from the databooks

>>283565486
ahhh nooo cute pinkhaired konoha foid please don't suck the poison out of me with your piss bubble manipulation

>>283565615
You mean filler, Hinata shares Sasuke's natures in the databooks.

>>283565615
Hinata actually has lighting and fire. Water is fanon because of that filler where she trains naked in that lake.

>>283565329
All 4 of you?!

>>283565522
Anon you don't get it. He is an underdog that trained really, really hard, but the universe was being mean to him

>>283565612
Would've been nice if Kishi actually incorporated elements into their gimmicks, Kiba doing spinning shit while being on fire would at least be some proof of timeskip progress

>>283564797
He wrote his dissertation on it.

Every one of the K11 gets a single chakra nature, who would benefit from which nature the most? Choji's stupid ass death ball thing seems like it'd be a killer if he was also on fire or covered in electricity during it.

>>283565642
So it's not just ocular jutsu and colors, it's chakra nature too. Just more proof she was a replacement

>>283565522
Not that much, even if he absolutely should know about it, among all the teens in the leaf Sasuke is the only one using it, jiraya is the only sannin we have seen using it, no subordinate of orochimaru used it, in the chuunin exam Temari and Sasuke were the only ones to use it, and I don't tink we have yet seen akatsuki members other than Kisame use them

>>283565671
Or Headhunter, digging is a dog trait, more so than spinning.

Naruto, when it comes to power and training, feels like a faggot nepo baby with 1000 times more resources than everyone else around him, but for some reason doesn't use them to full extent and gets congratulated for bare minimum

>>283563627
>>283563694
Wasn't rasengan described/drawn as a wind-like attack in the arc where he learnt it

>>283565642
>>283565655
Sorry, must have heard it in these threads

>>283563694
Was it ever speculated before being revealed what was Naruto's element?
>>283563857
It's one of those things where Naruto kinda serves as a reader surrogate to an extreme.

>>283565660
I'd be surprised if there's that many desu.

>>283565738
He gets complimented mainly when he does actually impressive things

>>283565522
>What was Naruto even doing all of this time? He knows nothing, has no new moves and act like a child he was at the start of the series. JUST WHAT?!
And you guys get annoyed when Kakashi in his thoughts points out Naruto is retarded. He is asking the same questions

Who is everyone's favorite Jinchuuriki?

>>283565773
....or when it's time to steal Sakura's feats

I swear to god that Jiraiya must've taken Naruto for some weekly booze during those 3 years and that killed half of Naruto's brain cells

>>283565754
The concept of elements other than Uchiha are good with fire is introduced with the reveal of Naruto 's element >>283565810
Yes

>>283565783
Hard to pick, when they're all such well developed characters...

>>283565738
>Uzumaki genes in a world where more chakra=stronger
>son of the fourth Hokage, the strongest Hokage since the 1st who could solo entire armies single-handedly
>Has the strongest tailed-beast by an order of magnitude
>taught by the dude who taught the 4th, one of the greatest ninjas in your village
>taught by the student of the 4th, same deal
>given special Toad summing and sage mode via nepotism
>is a reincarnation of the Great Sage, the guy who created ninjutsu
Everything Naruto accomplishes in the series is because nepotism and good genes are fucking awesome.

>>283565813
Kushina warned him!

>>283565847
It's kinda funny how every ninja in Naruto that's strong in the present is so because of some kind of bloodline or genetic ability.

>>283563471
The massive influx of memories ought to cause an aneurism, like in that one fanfic where Naruko tries to make a quick buck whoring her clones out only to mindbreak after canceling them all at once.

>>283565783
Bee > Gaara > Naruto > the rest, honestly

>>283565775
>He is asking the same questions
So author understands that he wrote a lazy retard and asks questions about how it came to this through Kakashi?

Wow, genius writing, Dostoevsky tier.

Could post time skip naruto(without rasen shuriken, sennin mode and kurama tard chakara) defeat Haku?

>>283565927
>nooo you can't just make an idiot character that's not allowed!

>>283565783
I don't see the ten tails jinchuriki in this pic.

>>283565902
I noticed how in part 1 I don't think there is a single time where a character with a unique advantage, jinchuriki or kekkei genkai, lose against someone who doesn't, excluding maybe Sasuke vs lee

>>283563648
Weirdly specific. If I were Naruto right now I would be paranoid that I'm living in a simulation. At the very least this implies intelligent design of the universe more than our real one ever does. Time to start praying to Jashin.

>>283563304 (OP)
This chapter proves kishi can not write , and ofc the evident is proof

>>283565939
When he is MC and everyone around him is smart(or tries to look smart) and hardworking, no I don't think you can if it's not a comedy or something.

>>283563897
This retard literally didnt notice that he instantly got the memories of a hundred clones at once? NO Kishi, BAD Kishi, this breaks the verse!

>>283565929
With kurama's cloak senbon shouldn't pierce his skin, while he can break the mirrors

>>283565962
why is this your gimmick

>>283565948
uuugh Kakashi jobbed to Zabuza

>>283565962
Hinata was already planned get over it !!!!

>>283565090
>why would she know about jinchuuriki or Itachi
Perhaps that is something that should be brought up when she spent three years training under the current hokage, to prepare her for missions of retrieving Sasuke, which will inevitably lead to encounters with Itachi or other Akatsuki, who are also after the jinchuuriki (this is all info Tsunade knew)

>>283565482
If he can't manipulate jutsu like everyone else, then I'm genuinely curious how the paper would react to Lee

>>283565993
Didn't kakashi activate the sharingan after being freed? If not fair

>>283565962
>Naruto and Sakura spend more time together
>They have better chemistry than they did with their actual partners
>They're both extroverts and have lots in common
They know each other better than they know themselves
>Sakura would keep Naruto on tabs to make sure he doesn't overdo anything or hurt himself
>They are childhood best friends
>They were their for each other through thick and thin
>Naruto saved her life MANY times
>Sakura actually has self-respect and dignity around Naruto unlike with a certain rogue criminal who always puts her down and makes her feel bad about herself
>Naruto is happier around her
Naruto always comforts her when she is feeling sad
Sakura always values Naruto's ambitions and dreams
>Sakura saved Naruto's life a handful of
times also

Kishi ??

>>283566022
Did Kishi know though?

>>283563329
Did Naruto hit his head on a counter at breakfast, why is he acting like a 10 year old

>>283565984
But without kurama just base naruto

>>283566051
Sakura isn't romantically into him

>>283565971
>no I don't think you can if it's not a comedy or something.
what gave it away?

>>283565983
>Fantasy comedy
Well fuck me, now it all makes. All of the idiocy happening is just an act of cleverly written comedy.
Every time you think "This shit doesn't make any sense" or "Why would Kishimoto write this?" remind yourselfs that this is a comedy and author is just trying to make you laugh.

>>283565099
it's because the Hatake are a nobody non-clan with no kekkei genkai so he had to make do with normalfag abilities. the fact he got as far as he did is on raw talent.

>>283565159
why do you think it's a forbidden jutsu (that a thousand people know and casually use by the end of shippuden)? even 3-4 of them is enough to potentially kill a normal ninja just from chakra drain.

>>283566105
so that's why naruto has wind style

>>283566118
yep you got it

>>283566066
Sorry I was channeling him to answer and forgot how to read, then possibly with a rasengan he can break a mirror and escape, but it's almost impossible for many reasons, so no, as long as he doesn't dig out of the mirrors or haku lose by himself because of kindness he has no counters

>>283564332
Kakashi implies shadow clone was specifically developed for the memory property, a standard elemental clone might not do the same thing

>>283565975
Nature doesn't think so even with infinity clones there's nothing to transfer back to the 'boss'

>already 200 replies
This doesn't smell good...

>>283563329
I hate this. Goku was never this retarded.

>>283565783
The nine-tails jinchuriki of course!

>Mastered all 5 elements without needing a kekkei genkai
Hiruzen, even STRONGER than his predecessors

>>283566142
Strange a MC not being stronger than his first enemy 3 years later.

>>283566207
Iruka...

>>283566213
He's stronger than his first enemy he wasn't really impressive and lost the moment he used the multi shadow clone

oh boy I can't wait for Kishi to explain how one masters elements that they don't have a natural affinity for, and if he doesn't I shall FIX Naruto in my MASTERFULLY-CRAFTED fanfiction

>>283566207
Solos Pain, Obito, Madara btw.

>>283566289
I would say that not taking the medicine for his lethal heart virus was worse

>>283566289
Keyword here: was

Toyotaro probably was inspired by Naruto's 30 IQ

>>283565756
She is cute and pretty and hot

>>283563355
Okay but how does a clone know it's a clone? Wouldn't they both feel like the original? Do they have different "initialization vectors"?

>>283563442
Maybe try winning at something other than Roshambo? You've been jobbing since you landed that Rasengan on Kabuto

>>283566334
There was a filler where the clones attempted to replace Naruto

>>283566289
I wish I had that image of Goku arriving at the Frieza fight but rewritten to be like Superku

>>283566314
He didn't fall sick, so he didn't take it. It makes sense. How do you know taking it before is the right way? Trunks told him to take it once he started feeling sick.

>>283566369
Not exactly this but relevant

>>283566325
Thanks, Tayuya is cute too!

On one hand I want to call Sasuke a cheater that uses the Sharingan to dip into Lightning-style easily but on the other hand the flexible way he uses Chidori later does seem to make his training more valid (making Naruto look like he was just sitting on his ass for 3 years even harder)

>>283564871
>>283564598
If clones explore things in a slightly different way he'll learn more things than if he did it all by himself. Maybe not a straight x1000 multiplier but some multiplier. The only issue is that he'd have to release the clones periodically to gain all the learned knowledge and start the next "step"

>>283565756
Yugito Nii-ds a man

>>283565783
Fuu-chan is pretty cute, but for me it's the best Kurama jinchuriki

>>283563545
So half of nine tails = 100x Kakashi
but also half of ninetails > 8 bijuus

So 100 Kakashis > 8 bijuus
12 Kakashis > 1 bijuu

>>283566334
The clone starts off knowing everything the original knows, including where the original was at the time of casting the clone.
And then there's an instant gap when the clone gains consciousness, suddenly finding himself standing next to the guy who is still standing in the spot where he just thought he was.

>>283563442
>Nardo has the ultimate information gathering technique
>never used for it
welp

>>283563672
>>283563648
Why aren't they using this on every single genin? This would be very helpful...

>>283566422
Based and Taypilled

>>283566363
it was technically a dream.

>>283564134
The ONLY good teacher

>>283566443
I volunteer!

>>283566399
The bottom panel is just the usual Super-rehash of something he already did later in the same arc that the top panel is from.

>>283565783
Fuu mogs Yugito so hard. It's almost sad

>>283566207
Did they ever go into detail about stuff like shadow posessions chakra natures? I'd guess Tayuya might be wind natured as the air she blows into the flute is expelled

>>283566618
>something he already did later in the same arc that the top panel is from
Except it was necessary and the right call in that arc, not a lack of martial arts skill. In fact it was precisely martial arts skill (or rather technique) that allowed him to stand up to a guy who was more than twice as strong as him. And telepathy nailed the finishing team blow

>>283566291
Only if they're fighting at Konoha.

>>283566506
So, seeing that they "popped out" instead of being in the spot they thought they were is enough to tell them they're a clone, and to sacrifice their "life" for the (alleged) original? Interesting.

Shikamarubros....soon...we will be the STARS....

>>283566622
It's not fair! Kishi drew her really badly there for some reason.

>>283566711
Friendly reminder ShiTkamaru lost his last big fight

>>283565783
how much you wanna bet if Naruto had met Fuu, they would've fallen for each other?

Why are these threads still a thing in 2025? Naruto threads in general. Should be banned again.

>>283566772
>lost to Tayuya
>next facing opponents that took down a perfect jinchuriki
It's not looking good Shikamarubros...

Who needs chakra natures when you can just summon chakra mechs anyway

Shitty thread as usual.

>>283565783
I remember the days when the fanbase wasn't sure if Fu was a trap or just a flattie

>>283566874
>have magic eyes
>completely cheat the basics of the power system
it be like that sometimes

>>283565448
Hashirama. Tobirama. Haku. Kisame. Mai. Yamato.

>>283565448
I guess Zabuza? In general each village is clearly skewed towards 1 of the 5 main elements anyway

>>283565783
bee

>>283563596
What's the best chakra nature to have out of the 5?

>>283565482
in retrospect Lee's struggles to use ninjutsu would probably be a lot more noticeable if more characters actually used elements, him doing a lot of supercharged punch and kicks doesn't seem that bad when most of the cast just does a non-elemental gimmick anyway

>>283566874
Why didn't he just slowly walk up to Naruto(and every other jinchuriki) and take him to his eye dimension where he would just take away the nine tails?

>>283567066
Doesn't Gai use a literal genkidama against Kisame that's supposedly just martial arts?

>>283567046
Wind because you know... MC has it, so it has to be broken.

>>283567134
>if you punch REALLY hard you can form a tiger out of pure concussive force (and it's literally not chakra at all since it can't be absorbed)

>>283567128
Stop trying to apply logic to Kishi's setting

What an awful thread.

>>283566483
Tayuya was robbed

>>283567183
If it was just a giant singular punch I would get it, but I call bullshit on it turning into an actual tiger without chakra involved

>>283567376
>He says for the 300th time this year

>>283567420
Well there's been 315 threads.

>>283567420
More like the 3rd or 4th time ITT. Not that anyone cares, everyone learned to ignore the smell.

>>283567420
Naruturd in general is just trash.

>>283563471
I think what we just saw discredits this. If the clones aren't simultaneously in sync with the user's mind (like some people would think) and all the info comes back post-release, what's making them train any differently than the original when they're spawned?

>>283567772
Randomness will make you behave slightly differently. Like, think of hitting a ball in a Tennis match, it'd come out slightly differently depending on imperceptible factors.

>>283563596
"...and also Yin and Yang to explain everything else that obviously doesn't come from an element but they won't buy the databook if I explain that here"

>>283563694
kek this is literally elementary school tier knowledege. Why did naruto doesn't know this?

Is there no way to get scans of the colored version of the naruto manga without the awful watermark on every page?

>>283563415
He WON (against Kakash who may be top 10 smartest character) and people still dare to call him stupid

>>283567885
It's over the bottom white background, you could easily edit it out, but who's gonna do that for 17~ pages x 700 chapters and then save those thousands of images.

>>283567378
now THIS is a crackship

>>283567938
there should just be a version without the watermark somewhere. I'm not suggesting manually removing it. the old dailyramen guy posted them watermarkless until the name switched to sakon

>>283567420
>camera right up the snidge
remembering again all the incredible upskirts she gets in the UN Storm games (a ton of her attack comboes involve her doing splits and high kicks)

>>283567998
Doubt

>>283567938
and the watermark is often directly over the art several times a chapter. Really huge asshole whoever did that

>>283567997
>I've been thinking about you ever since you fractured my eye socket and jaw with your pretty hands

>>283568043
she likes a guy who can take some hits

>>283568025
I looked again and his posts were only watermark-less until volume 8.

https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/276099576/

So there is a version without a watermark somewhere at least up until volume 8. The publicly seeded torrent version has watermarks on all volumes starting at 1.

>>283568033
The color version is inferior anyway. Just watch the anime if you don't want to enjoy the superior black and white scans.

>>283568197
Where is the colored version with no watermark?

>>283568283
Who cares?

>>283568314
Are you just being retarded on purpose?

>>283568332
See
>>283568197
Nobody cares about your fan made colored version.

>>283568018
>camera right up the snidge

>>283568060
it's not like I think you're cute or anything, you baka homo

>>283568352
I didn't ask for your autistic opinion and obviously I didn't make it or I would have the version without the watermark. Are you being retarded on purpose?

>>283568018
Most of her attacks consisted of trampling her opponents

>>283568370
It should have been me...

>>283565783
Fuu sexo
But seriously, Kishi made pretty much every Jinchuuriki dirty, except Bee

>>283568355
>>283568370
>>283568396
HOW DO THE BANDAGES WORK

>>283568366
I see you just want (You)s. Here (You) go champ.

>>283568438
More importantly, how do they smell

>>283568469
why are you even replying to me if you don't know anything about it? quit being retarded

>>283568535
(You)

>>283564641
Keeping clan tradition > elemental jutsu.
Now stop crying while I put you in this insect nest so they can crawl inside you - Aburame clan.

>>283568612
but just imagine the possibilities, like bugs full of fire

>>283568438
They're magic bandages like Lee's

Someone had brought up the lack of weird paranormal shit in Naruto, and I think that's kind of why I like Haku's ice mirrors even though it's just a jutsu, the way he merges with the ice and he's reflected all over feels more abnormal than most of the stuff we see

>>283568778
His jutsu only makes sense if it was genjutsu, but I'm sure Kishi didn't put much thought into it.

>>283568778
his jutsu is a bit like the kamui dimension stuff later just on a smaller scale. I never really thought about it but there are really aren't that many jutsu that are similarly weird and paranormal feeling. Even henge and clones are much more supernatural than the mostly elemental stuff later

>>283568809
I don't think it makes sense as a genjutsu. He is just traveling to some kind of other dimension like kamui or kaguya's dimension shifting

>>283568862
>just traveling to some kind of other dimension
That's a busted jutsu then. Makes more sense that the ice and cold affected their senses to cast a genjutsu imo

>>283563329
Okay, has there been a single case in the manga where this has been used before this? It obviously isn't stated, but just something someone subtly did.
Alternatively, did the anime do this?

>>283568778
with Kishi going full element autism now I have to wonder what would happen if Haku used one of those papers, if it just freezes cause his kekkei genkai is ice or if it gets damp and also slices apart cause I think ice is technically just wind + water here

>>283568892
I don't think it's busted just because it goes to another dimension. It clearly has different restrictions. But Haku was implied to be stronger than Zabuza and Kakashi so being busted checks out

>>283564598
Some forms of AI training work like this.
You have a bunch of instances running doing things slightly differently, and the best ones of them have their memory applied for future runs, leading to greater results.
It doesn't reach that level of efficiency, of course, but it does sort of make sense from that perspective.

>>283566493
I can definitely buy 12 Kakashi level ninjas being able to take down Shukaku. Not easily, but eventually.

>>283569015
I mean, based on what we saw in the previous chapters 1 Hidan is enough, so yeah even 1 Kakashi could do it

>>283569015
Pre-timeskip Kakashi low diffs Shukaku

>>283569098
How exactly? Chidori? lel

>>283563471
Is there any instance of any other character training this way? Because even for shinobi with low chakra this would be an invaluable method to quickly learning really difficult jutsu. Better yet WHY DIDN'T JIRAYA OR KAKASHI TELL HIM THIS 2 FUCKING YEARS AGO!?

>>283569112
Do you really think raw chakra is the way to measure who would win? By that logic Madara or Minato lose to Shukaku as well. Kakashi easily seals the one tails.

>>283569317
What exactly does Kakashi have to face a kaiju?

>>283569129
Normal shinobi would literally just die trying to do that. No one told him because it was a unique training method conceived for him because of his stamina from his heritage. Maybe the Uzumaki clan knew about the method though.

>>283569327
Kakashi's proficiency in sealing jutsu easily handles the weakest tailed beast. You are really overestimating how strong Shukaku is when he lost to genin Naruto and Gamabunta

>>283569129
Kishi is a low-intelligence writer and didn't brainstorm/roadmap a timeskip out properly. Probably because Toriyama does them all the time. In Kishi's context, anytime Naruto is told something extremely basic after spending 2.5 years with one of the most powerful ninja alive at the time, it either makes the story fall apart or makes Jiraiya look incredibly lazy or stupid. All while making Naruto look so stupid it's hard to stomach, it'd be like if Goku was in King Kai's training and had no idea how to gather his ki at that point.

This reminds me, at this point in the story, and with no future context, Jiraiya's the most powerful shinobi, right? Your only competition are:
Orochimaru (crippled)
Itachi (if you were reading weekly you're led to believe Itachi + Kisame might not be able to take him and Susano'o + the other bullshit doesn't exist yet)
Nondescript Akatsuki leader (it's shonen so you know this guy is gonna be stronger but have no proof yet)
Hashirama/Tobirama if you count their edo appearances (which aren't yet retconned/buffed to their retarded War arc levels)

>>283569376
>n-no he would.... cast some seal he never ever shown that'd just shut down the fucking kaiju!
Sharingan genjutsu really is the only possibility.
Also Gamabunta shits on Kakashi.

>>283569402
>Gamabunta shits on Kakashi
kek ok so you're just retarded.

>>283569386
Jiraiya is the strongest good guy at that point yeah. You could speculate a lot about powerlevels of the bad guys, Itachi and Kisame not being optimistic about facing Jiraiya and all of that jazz but you could reasonably say Jiraiya is one of the few that could handle most Akatsuki members (or at least that's how it would appear).

Which makes it even more stupid that he doesn't help in these critical missions with S tier adversaries. Asuma apologized for ducking out of Konoha, but what was Jiraiya doing when they were rescuing Gaara and sending Naruto on the frontlines?

Hell, why didn't the elders ask Jiraiya to handle the bridge mission? He's used to Oro and spying, he's the perfect fit for the job. Add Yamato in the team and you've got very good chances of success. Well, we know the reason why, if Jiraiya tags along, Sasuke is brought back and we can't have that.

Shitty thread

>>283563648
They didnt teach any of this in academy?

>>283563471
O' my one handsign technique that spends way too much chakra to produce any number of perfect, independent clones that can also use their own techniques and also share their memories and experience back when they die and also give back the chakra they have left when they die (so that they don't actually waste that much chakra after all) and also can be used to generate chakra and radio the new chakra back to the main host as they dissipate

>>283568674
That smirk...

>>283569129
Didn't Yamato just recently apply this with his wood clone or something recently during the bridge arc

>>283563571
ALRIGHT THE GOAT IS BACK

>Shukaku used wind style bullets
>Gamabunta used water style bullets
Did they have to find some xbox hueg chakra paper for them to try out

>>283569714
Captain Yawnmato

>>283565190
>I think I remember situations where they were used
>Or maybe I’m gaslighting myself

Sakura used them against Ino, and Sasuke used them a couple of times in the anime. That's pretty much it.

>>283565430
>Shadow Clone Jutsu: Clones that are solid.
>Multi-Shadow Clone Jutsu: Clones that are solid, but go up to a hundred or more.

There is no real difference between these except for the chakra used and number of clones produced. Naruto learned both at the same time and the hand signs are identical.

>>283563329
There is no legitimate in-universe reason why Jiraiya never told Naruto this.

>>283568438
they're shorts, the 'bandages' are just a pattern printed on them for fashion. ninja-chic

SHITraiya was focused on getting some hookers instead

>>283569930
>Super

>>283564449
>This is a retcon.

Not quite, it doesn't change anything, but it is new information added to how the jutsu works. I had always wondered how it worked up to that point; it wasn't clear if the clones were a hivemind like Pain or if they just died and their memories got lost.

>>283569910
he trained Naruto wrong as a joke

>>283569793
>Shukaku used wind style bullets
Would've been cool if Naruto learned to do this when using Kurama's chakra.

>>283569942
It's a retcon in the sense that it makes ZERO sense that nobody ever brought this up earlier (even Kakashi's chakra excuse really doesn't explain why one wouldn't use at least one clone for training sometimes, but it's way worse when we're considering Naruto can makes thousands of these and he spent 3 years with a Sannin)

It was made up on the spot to get Naruto to catch up

>>283569941
it's an exact recreation of the stunt he pulled with Perfect Cell.

>>283569908
The Multi-Shadow Clone jutsu can kill you and that's why it labeled a forbidden jutsu.

>>283567046
>What's the best chakra nature to have out of the 5?

Lightning. Sasuke, Kakashi, and the Cloud-nin all have it and make great use of it. Wind is mediocre in comparison.

>>283563596
I understand that Kakashi is explaining this for the audience's sake more than anything, but did Naruto have to be a complete retard who didn't even know this basic information?
Couldn't Kakashi have just asked Naruto if he knew about chakra natures, and then Naruto could say yes and give the basic gist, and Kakashi could elaborate further so that we understand for the purpose of the story?

>>283566197
>>283569941

>>283569978
No. Or rather it's a superficial attempt at that. Goku never actually weakened Cell at that point, he'd have been able to kill them all regardless, the senzu was a nice way to egg him on and taunt him. And of course it was also done for thematic reasons (Goku had absolute trust and pride in his son)

This Super analogy would be like if Goku gave Cell a senzu after Gohan beat him up, but Goku did exactly the opposite: he asked Gohan to kill Cell as soon as possible. No trying to spare him, no "good fight" bullshit.

>>283565783
>personality
Nard & B
>design
Roshi, Han and Fu

the rest look like common dudes and I don't particularly care for Gaara.

>>283570019
nope >>283570026

The Cell senzu is a myth propagated by people who weren't paying attention when Goku and Vegeta said Cell could still kill them all, or when Cell powered up later. They saw Goku giving Cell a good fight and thought the senzu mattered, but it never did.

>>283569930
earnestly I actually liked that one
>Moro immediately breaks his arm trying to punch Goku right after
ultimate KWAB moment

>>283564721
I think he was actively trying to make combat easier for him to write and require less thinking on his part. Combat gets increasingly more blast based from here on out, and he elevated easily the least interesting part of his magic system to distract from the rest of it. I mean hell, he never even tries to suggest what a water chakra nature would achieve in combat and he completely forgets about the match ups when Sarutobi claps back against the gedo mazo

>>283570013
Naruto's intelligence hits its lowest point around this part of the manga. Later on he asks Kurenai if she just got fat.

>>283570059
Nah it's really frustrating to see an attempt at a cool climax when it hinges entirely upon Goku giving a senzu to this guy for no reason whatsoever (what? Moro can't go to prison while also slightly beaten up? He needs to be in top shape to go there, he can't be inconvenienced at all?)

>>283567046
>>283570002
Based on what we've seen so far I feel like
Lightning > Earth > Water > Wind >>>> Fire

>>283570083
>Water > Wind
????

>>283570019
Irrefutable. Piccolo breaks down Gohan's character to Goku who realizes he made a massive mistake and is about to hop back in. 16's sacrifice bailed them out.

>>283570002
>can be used offensively
>can be used defensively
>can enhance your speed
Why did kishi make lightning so busted?

>>283570118
Wrong again.

Gohan was already on the verge of exploding, as noted by Cell. 16 was the spark, but anyone dying would've had the same effect.
All Piccolo said was about Gohan being a kid and not enjoying fighting, which was irrelevant. Gohan wasn't conflicted about fighting or too young to fight. He fought a bloody death battle against Vegeta at the age of 5. The issue was getting angry on purpose, which he never did, and couldn't do it on command. Pic related.

>>283570103
Just going off of what we've seen so far:
>Lightining has actually killed someone on-screen (RIP Haku), actually broke right through Gaara's ultimate defense (RIP Lee's pride)
>Earth seems to have good utility, Mud Wall, Kakashi's Fanged Pursuit (the dogs tracking Zabuza), Jirobo's dome, etc., pretty good offensively and defensively
>Water's kind of the same as Earth but it feels kind of lesser; Kakashi unironically got soloed by Zabuza's Water Prison, and I'm pretty sure his mist technique to hide his location is also great support since it seems to be thick enough to even fuck with the Sharingan
>Wind so far is pretty meh, Temari just offscrened Tenten so hard it functionally destroyed her fighting career, but then it randomly gets the vs. male strength reduction against Shikamaru
>Fire is lol, lmao

>>283570129
>gives your weapons armor break
>can run it through yourself to dispell shit
>most broken clone variant alongside Itachi's exploding ones
If you're smart and any good at close combat it feels like the best one. Without looking it up I think Lightning and Wind have the lowest amount of named jutsu too

>>283570167
Also, retards latch onto the Piccolo speech but ignore everything that comes after. Goku was vindicated in almost every possible way. He was right that Gohan had to do this (despite Piccolo's whining) and there were no alternatives. Discussing the plan with Gohan wouldn't help, since Gohan spells it out to Cell early on. He already knows what Goku was banking on. He just couldn't do it that easily.

>>283566197
>>283570056

not to get too off-topic but the problem wasn't the senzu, it was that Goku was trying too hard to appease the rules of a killing machine

>>283570202
>>283570167
Piccolo WAS correct, you can see it in Goku's face here >>283570204
Goku was vindicated but didn't expect to be, he agreed with Piccolo and wanted a senzu to rejoin the fight.

>>283570202
Yeah, like clockwork: >>283570204

Piccolo is an overemotional retard who couldn't see the dire circumstances they were in. He's screeching like a woman in that scene, so hard he thinks Gohan died of a Kiai and can't even bother to feel his Ki (stronger than anyone else in the team btw)

>>283570225
Trying to appeal to Cell's competitive spirit is the best way to get Cell to taunt Gohan until Gohan is in top shape. There's really no other solution. The worst thing Goku did in this arc was taking Vegeta into the room first actually.

Kek this is the most focused non schizo DBZ related conversation I've seen on this board in years and it's in the naruto thread.

>>283570083
>water jets >> earth

>>283570252
Piccolo was correct that Gohan doesn't enjoy fighting at heart and wrong about everything else.

Gohan wasn't whining about the situation he was in, or wondering why Goku wasn't helping. In fact he had already figured out Goku's plan multiple pages earlier.

>>283570275
You know, I'm still not sure why the jannies let /dbs/ get as bad as it did
I enjoyed it a long time ago when the anime was still airing, but after it turned into a clusterfuck I'm just genuinely not sure why it was allowed to fester and mutate horribly

>>283570284
Piccolo was even more notably wrong when he was saying "Gohan's wondering what the fuck is happening and why daddy isn't helping and the fact he dislikes fighting is blocking him"

Gohan's block was made crystal clear. Pic related. They can't make it more obvious than this.

>thread is so boring it turned into a dragonball thread
Kek

>>283565847
>Everything Naruto accomplishes in the series is because nepotism and good genes are fucking awesome.

>>283570259
>There's really no other solution
He literally could've TOLD Gohan about his plan and not heal the villain endangering everybody there.

>>283570359
What was he supposed to do? Ask the Androids to let him go home take a nap? Fight in base? Ask Krillin to take on the Androids?

Goku understood Buu and Babidi's relationship at a glance and successfully manipulated Buu into killing Babidi while Piccolo was wondering what the fuck was happening. I know pushing TARDku is a meme around /dbs/fags but if we're being honest Goku is actually closer to being the brain of the group than the tard.

>>283570409
>He literally could've TOLD Gohan about his plan
Which wouldn't have changed anything. Gohan had a fundamental block which could only be fixed by seeing his friends suffer.
By the way, how does "hey, we're all going to die in 10 days unless you can muster these elusive hidden powers of yours" sound? Is Gohan supposed to be more at ease now? Is this your idea of a plan?
>heal the villain
He didn't heal shit. He never damaged Cell in any significant way.

>>283570418
>What was he supposed to do?
Take his fucking meds. Not go SSJ when he felt the heart virus symptoms. Tardku defenders are unreal.

>>283570462
>Take his fucking meds
Retard. Trunks said "take this once you start experiencing syndroms". Not before.
>Not go SSJ when he felt the heart virus symptoms
He was already in a fight. He's not going to fight the Androids in base. I swear these threads are even worse at understanding Dragon Ball than Naruto.

>>283570455
>Which wouldn't have changed anything
Irrelevant. The point is it was a massively retarded move.
>He didn't heal shit
He fucking resorted him to full strength.

Don't mind us, just a bit of foreplay

>>283570500
>Irrelevant. The point is it was a massively retarded move.
It's not retarded if you're not gaining anything from either path. Might as well let Gohan perform on the decisive day rather than stress him out before that for nothing. They couldn't prepare for that.
>He fucking resorted him to full strength.
>re
You can't read. You can't read the manga for children, and you can't even read this thread >>283570056

Cell was never at full power. Cell is, in fact, able to spawn 7 dudes on Vegeta's level without breaking a sweat. Goku never damaged him.

It can't be more explicit than >>283570056
>our only hope is Gohan's power

>>283570500
>He fucking resorted him to full strength.
gonna interject on you guys but I always felt like this was extremely overstated by the fanbase after I refreshed myself with this page
even after getting the dogshit beaten out of him by SS2 Gohan, complete with a Kamehameha that mogged his attempt to nuke the whole earth with a full-power one of his own, this dude is explicitly still a threat only Gohan could handle, whatever energy he lost from his fight with Goku is so microscopic in comparison that the senzu is like bringing a guy from 99% to 100%

>>283570505
This guy just cannot keep himself from touching Konoha girls

>>283570564
Goku is the only one who actually had ethical issues with killing Gero rather than JUST wanting to fight. Vegeta wanted to fight for the sake of fighting. So did Tien. Are they retards too? Or is it just a Dragon Ball thing?

>>283570418
SMARTku working Buu like that was one of the smartest things in the manga, it's so perfectly executed that it's funny. A few seconds of seeing that megalomaniac barely tardwrangling a universal threat and even Goku figures out how to win without fighting.

On topic, this is a well-executed timeskip (Cell into Buu Saga) compared to Naruto's. Goku here is acting like someone who's had seven years training and reflecting with the greatest heroes to live in other world (I know the tournament was filler but he still had experiences like that, he picked up Metamoran Fusion there).

We're not asking the real questions though, would Naruto give Cell a senzu bean?

>>283570497
>Trunks said "take this once you start experiencing syndroms"
Right. So Tardku NOT doing that was fucking retarded when symptoms showed. As was going SSJ too.

>>283570599
If Cell had any influence over Sasuke? No. Any other scenario? Probably, look at the Pain arc.

>>283570573
It's so insane. People had an agenda against Goku there. Maybe they love Piccolo, maybe they were raised with Abridged, maybe they love this TARDku meme. They ignore Goku stating in no uncertain terms, MULTIPLE TIMES, that only Gohan can do shit against Cell. Not just the Gohan who was already stronger than Goku in Super Saiyan, the angry hulking beast SS2 Gohan who was doing this to Vegeta level fighters and didn't actually scare Cell at that point.

There's no convincing people who have already made up their agenda. They need Goku to be retarded because saying otherwise would mean accepting they read the manga wrong.

Now that I'm 25 I think it's becoming easier to stop being blinded by nostalgia and feels. Naruto was my obsession as 8-14 yo but these daily threads and after reading so many Manga I can finally accept that Naruto is seriously badly written and Naruto as a character is one of the weakest links in the series. I tried to cope and watch or read positive Naruto analysis to convince myself that no Naruto is actually pretty good but nah reading these chapters is making it clear that kishimoto has no respect for his main character or world building and it hurts other characters by association too. Naruto's retarded behavior makes jiraya a worse character, Naruto's badly written childhood and backstory made hiruzen a worse character than kishimoto intended him to be.
Naruto's behavior was fine and even kinda endearing in part 1 when he was 11-12 yo but he's 15 now , none of this is justified especially considering Naruto shows great battle IQ feats so this just looks baffling.
Kishimoto should have given Tolkien a read.

>>283570607
He experienced symptoms once they found the androids. Was he supposed to ask for a break? Was he supposed to fight in Base?

>>283570585
Tardku literally says he wants to fight too. Bulma also didn't say they had to kill him, just attack him.

>>283565182
While there might be folk tale reasons for it, if you've ever been outside on a particularly windy winter day it's understandable. Even a slight breeze on bare skin when its like -30 outside feels like death, so imagine a day like that where its actually windy and it feels like it cuts you down to the bone.

I'm trying to think of things that are more Japan specific that could lead to it, and through pure conjecture and absolutely zero research, maybe its possible that high winds would tear through the paper screens on their houses in a way that it looked like a mad slasher did the deed and thats where the association came from

>>283570615
>If Cell had any influence over Sasuke? No.
This is probably still the highlight of Shippuden to me thus far, Naruto legitimately acts like a deranged yandere trying to keep Sasuke shackled to him forever in a way that's actually disturbing as all hell

>>283570615
>Probably, look at the Pain arc.
He didn't heal the Pains or Nagato.

Let's kill this meme once and for all. Goku isn't just "not retarded", he's legitimately one of the smartest characters in the manga and I'm not talking "battle IQ", he's legitimately one of the few guys that actually picks up what's going on around them faster than the others.

Pic related.

>>283570645
I only say it half-jokingly when I say that Team 7 is probably the worst part of their own story with the way that Kishi writes them, and more than anything I'm still surprised the editor didn't tardwrangle him harder

>>283570649
Yes, so did everyone else, but Goku was the only one who had an actual decent reason on top of that.

By your argument, we have
>not retarded
Bulma
>retarded
Goku, Krillin
>even more retarded
Everyone else, including Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta...

This is obviously not what you're trying to say, so you're clearly hypocritical and inconsistent.

>>283570721
>and more than anything I'm still surprised the editor didn't tardwrangle him harder
this is probably what confuses me more than anything, the role of an editor is to basically filter the gold from the shit but it feels like he's been snoozing for the entire prior arc especially

>>283570712
>hid bukujutsu during the entire tournament just to use it at the very last moment

>>283570766
>understands that Shenron would die alongside Kami-sama
Are Roshi and Tien retarded? Because it never came to their mind.

>>283570645
>Naruto's badly written childhood and backstory made hiruzen a worse character than kishimoto intended him to be.
I unironically like 4chan Hiruzen more than the actual canon character, I like the idea that all of his values are steeped by the wartorn era he grew up in so he genuinely doesn't see a problem with all the negligence and deranged child killing

>>283570624
not those anons but there's a difference between perceiving goku as a dimwit retard, and admitting he had a lapse in judgment.

This whole convo is actually reminding me of a giant pet peeve of mine in that I feel like fandoms have gradually became more and more intolerant of characters making "organic" fuckups in a story, and I say that while also dreading some scenes in Shippuden

>>283570750
I think every mangaka hits that point where they're too high off their own farts: usually correlating with a big anime adaptation and equating the success of those animators to be his own. Look at jujutsu or MHA.

>>283570645
Ok bleachtard.

>>283570840
Reminds me that I found Sasuke and his descent into pure insanity much more understandable after the OG storytime because of looking at events from his perspective, sometimes you gotta look at things less from the perspective of an omniscient 3rd-party viewer

>>283570821
I didn't say Piccolo was entirely wrong. The Cell finale is all about fatherhood and obviously Goku seeing himself in his son, projecting even to an extent because of how proud he was, is one theme Toriyama went for. He was a father himself so it's not too far fetched to think this part echoes some of the things he thought.

That said, people are misrepresenting this slight error by completely erasing the reality of the situation they were in, despite the dialogues making it as clear as possible that there was no other option. Goku didn't like that choice, but the alternative was death. So Goku made the right choice and the only "better" choice is a hypothetical "what if Goku discussed his plan with Gohan earlier so maybe Gohan would've transformed more easily with prep time" but that's probably bullshit. It could just as well end up in a mental block and Gohan being tortured for the 10 days of rest.

I think Goku fighting Cell at full power and telling Gohan "hey, it didn't look that impressive right? Well I was at full power, it's just that you already surpassed me. You can save the world with your hidden powers" is a lot more persuasive and soothing than whatever 10 days prior talk anons claim Goku should've given.

>>283565302
Toilet bowl too

>>283570645
I still like Naruto while knowing all the flaws.

>>283570944
Moreover, this is what happens the very next page after Cell eats the senzu and people call out Goku for it. You can't get really any more clear than that.

>>283570871
Not canon btw.

>>283570721
Even as a kid I never bought the team 7 propaganda so when the finale came and kishimoto did these team 7 is back moments I genuinely felt nothing, what team 7? The one who went on a single mission together? They barely talked or spent time with each other unless Kakashi called them. I've seen them separately with other characters more than I've seen them together
>>283570790
The problem is that hiruzen was obviously not supposed to be a bad guy and Naruto's backstory makes no sense. He obviously had to have a caretaker who fed and cleaned him up so where TF is she ? Who was feeding and changing Naruto's diaper? Naruto had to have someone living with him until he was 5 at the least. Did that person not develop any paternal connection to him ?

>>283566542
They figured it out even without the paper.

>>283570997
That's mercy, not stupidity. He didn't want to be a brother killer.
Stupidity would be something like posting the garbage toilet paper tier colored pages instead of the original ones.

>>283566369
>I wish I had that image of Goku arriving at the Frieza fight but rewritten to be like Superku

>>283571010
>The problem is that hiruzen was obviously not supposed to be a bad guy
It's exactly why Danzo was created. If he didn't exist, almost everything falls on Hiruzen.

>>283571010
my own perception of 4chan hiruzen includes him being so buttmad about his wife dying in the attack (thanks coolest guy) that he set Naruto up with the bare minimum. There's a more logical approach that Naruto was raised in an orphanage until x year of age/entering academy but that's just as absent from the story. Probably because Naruto growing up in the same house as other Konoha children would have removed all his sad childhood and no one wouldve called him stinky.

>>283570649
Ok, so they attack Gero and stop his androids. What then? He wanted revenge on Goku for destroying his RR army, all this is going to do is just making him even anger and want even more vengeance. If anything, it'll make him build stronger androids since now he knows that the gang is stronger then they were when they left.

>Naruto (forma de Boruto) even gets hit with the deadbeat dad allegations too
Maybe it's the curse of wearing orange

>>283570712
There's really no way to respond to this other than spam DBS pages and /dbs/ TARDku memes. Anons can't fucking read a children's manga.

>>283571089
Goku's ICONIC rarely seen boxer briefs.

>>283571080
Pretty sure he wouldn't have been able to take him out given how exhausted and how little time he had. Buu was just too durable. Even if he could, he had perfectly good reasons not to.

By the way, this is Piccolo, the designated "smart guy" of the fanbase wanking Goku's plans and constantly lagging behind him in this arc. So much for TARDku!

>>283571080
Nah I'll actually defend that one, actually trying to let the kids prove they can keep the Earth safe isn't a bad idea so they don't get complacent, crushing the damn earrings is actually way more deranged (though then again basically everyone acts like a maniac in that arc, so I think Toriyama really wanted to be done with it all)

>>283571123
>isn't a bad idea

>>283571010
>He obviously had to have a caretaker who fed and cleaned him up so where TF is she ? Who was feeding and changing Naruto's diaper? Naruto had to have someone living with him until he was 5 at the least. Did that person not develop any paternal connection to him ?
I'm sure a fanfic or three has already done this but I'm telling you, Naruto Sarutobi would've been the perfect cover-up

>>283570840
A lot of comes from autists, who make up a large part of fandoms, who believe that every fictional character has to act in a completely rational and logical manner all the time. And that when they don't it's a fault of the author rather than the characters simply acting according to how they've been written. Like >>283570923 wrote as a kid I used to dislike sauske for acting like an edgy emo fag and thinking him joining snake mengele was dumb but after rereading the series I completely understand why he would do so. That being said it doesn't excuse kishi for writing naruto and sakura to be so obsessed with sauce though. That is legitimately bad writing.

>>283571139
>Pic
Hey that was Piccolo's suggestion, he just also didn't expect Buu to straight up wipe 99.99% of the remaining population in one shot instead of being a typical meathead villain who fucks around out of sadism

>>283570914
I hate bleach lol it's easily the worst of the 3.
I still prefer Naruto over OP too especially post TS OP which is definitely heading to a worse conclusion than Naruto but I still recognize that Naruto isn't good either just because something worse exists. This chapter alone by itself managed to raise wiriting problems in every single page somehow.
>>283570987
>I still like Naruto while knowing all the flaws.
I still think part 1 is at least an 7.5/10. Even there Naruto as a character was massively better because he really wasn't obsessed with Sasuke and his mind was focused on training and just proving himself to everyone. Naruto as a character just becomes male Sakura to some degree. I've even seen Sakura fans asking why is Sakura hated for her obsession with Sasuke but Naruto isn't receiving the same treatment...I saw some answers trying to justify it by saying their bond is deeper or Naruto and Sasuke mirror each other but ...that doesn't really justify it since Naruto and Sasuke didn't have enough time or interactions to build such bond to begin with.
The problem was that Naruto went the Sasuke obsessive route too quickly, we could have at least had him question wether Sasuke is worth it or not or if he would kill Sasuke if he went against konoha and hurt his friends but Naruto doesn't really do that. Even when Sasuke tries to kill Sakura, Naruto talks to Sasuke afterwards like that didn't just happen and he's smiling and talking about some sentimental bullshit...

>>283571147
>Asuma would've had some direction in life
>probably never gets involved with the 30million ryo ninja monk and doesn't die to Hidan
everyone wins.

>>283571139
This was after Buu changed from fatty that could be somewhat controlled (by Goku's words, by the way) into a killing machine

By the way, this worked out better than it would have otherwise. It was a net positive. They have Dragon Balls and they were planning on buying time by letting Buu kill some dudes for a few days. They got that time. It went exactly as Goku intended.

And more than that, >>283571139 happened when Piccolo asked Buu to kill the remaining Earthlings. Not Goku.

Now THIS Naruto would've made some gains in those 3 years

>>283571165
>he didn't expect the monster made by an evil wizard to kill everyone after he was warned it would happen by supreme kai

What was TARDjita doing? Ginyu had changed body in front of him and was screaming that he was going to do it again, then cast a slow moving spell at him. Why did he need GENIUSku to save him with the frog clutch?

This is the kind of reasoning /dbs/tards will dish out to try and convince you Goku is dumb btw

>>283571206
He'd have jobbed even worse in part 2 if he trained like lee.

>>283568900
We've seen people react to what happened to their clone except they've always been close enough to potentially have just seen it physical despite sometimes being hidden

>>283571206
Unironically having Guy as a teacher would have made Naruto an absolute beast that Sasuke would've probably shat himself facing.
Guy is just built different.

>>283571205
>this worked out better than it would have otherwise. It was a net positive

>>283571216
Yeah but we're all lead to believe he would just take his time blowing up cities one by one and turning people into candy and shit like before, based on what we've seen up to that point the Human Extinction Attack was a bizarrely high IQ move from a retarded bubblegum man

>>283571266
Did Kakashi even teach naruto anything besides telling him about the shadow clone trick? Walking on trees is the only thing?

>>283571270
Do you know what this manga is called? Hint: it starts with a D.

>>283571257
>He'd have jobbed even worse in part 2 if he trained like lee.
Lee despite all the jobbing was still one of the strongest characters in part 1. He was just always put up against some genetic freaks of nature or blood hungry junshirikis.

>>283571300
DokiDoki Precure!

>>283571306
Lee suffers the same problem as a good chunk of the cast where he keeps going up against bizzarely-specific hard counters that he has no plausible way of beating, and you really can't unsee how often this sort of thing happens in the story

>>283567046
Specialist nen, because you can so whatever bullshit the plot demands.

>>283570505
Anko would have been such a fun replacement for Kakashi instead of Yamato.

>>283571253
I could keep going for a while but I'll stop entertaining this "discussion" (more like lack thereof). Goku isn't my favorite character in this (although he's top 3), I'm just tired of seeing fanbase memes rewriting everything.

>>283571257
Nah. After Naruto trained with the frog guy for like a week his taijutsu became much better, picrel. Under a proper teacher like Guy Naruto would improve a lot.

>>283571343
Hilarious how the opposite happens to benefit Guy in a similar situation
>Oh boy I'm a sharkman that loves absorbing chakra, it would REALLY suck if I went up against the one guy who doesn't do any silly magic shit

>>283571287
He really didn't and neither did he teach Sakura anything either. Like I thought maybe after pointing out that Sakura has a talent with genjutsu he'd hook her up with some specialist but he doesn't. He just takes the hands off approach and I'm not sure what his plan was. Sakura would have still been the weakest of the konoha 11 if she didn't go by herself and ask Tsunade for help so ig Kakashi's plan was just to leave her be, Naruto got adopted by jiraya half way through part 1 so ig Kakashi felt he wasn't needed.

>>283570645
>Now that I'm 25
God damn I'm getting old. I was 22 when the manga finished. Time really flies.

>>283571287
He taught him his chakra nature

In terms of teachers I kinda wanna say Guy > Asuma > Kakashi > Kurenai, but Guy isn't perfect considering he really taught 5 Gates to a dude whose body clearly wasn't read for that shit

>>283571343
Which is honestly crazy considering the odds. Like 98% of ninjas are these fodder ones we saw in the war arc that aren't really anything special but lee always ends up facing the 2%.

>>283571343
you could reasonably* have written Lee into the turtle island training mission and had Kisame get a sneak attack in that knocks Guy out, let Lee get the win by going into a rage with his own 7th gate Hirudora
It's about the only thing I think they could've done for Shippuden Lee, a proven good matchup. I don't know if Japan liked him as much as the west did, people who barely remember watching Naruto still remember Lee vs Gaara.

...naruto thread?

>>283571444
Naruto Ball Z, but instead of bad guys trying to get the Dragon Balls they're hunting Bijuu instead

Son CHADku

>>283571368
Unrelated, and I don't know if this sounds stupid, but could Sage Naruto have just pulled out the chakra receivers? It wouldn't have happened here since he didn't know how they worked and after he learned, this Pain could fire off Shinra Tenseis again . But would a pain body even function if you tore a bunch of those out?

>>283571479
>but could Sage Naruto have just pulled out the chakra receivers
Pretty sure the chakra in them would've fucked him up

>>283571428
When I rewatched the Chunin Exams a long time ago is when I noticed this phenomenon
>That one jobber who got fucked by Gaara because he had the misfortune of running into the one guy with auto-defense

>>283571368
Why did Naruto randomly wear a cloak?

>>283571525
It looks cool

>>283571525
It looked cool.

>>283571421
>Asuma
The fuck did he teach? Ino-Shika-Cho all just learned from their respective clans. Shit, Ino even had to go somewhere else just to learn med-jutsu. Asuma is a bum.

>>283571477
Which Akatsuki pair got this guy?

>>283571010
>>283570790
I was looking around just now because I was wondering why Mikoto didn't offer to adopt Naruto and I only just learned that Sasuke is named after Hiruzens dad

>>283571579
Kisame solo'd him pre Itachi vs. Sasuke. Which checks out massively, undisputed king of Water Style vs. the Lava dude.

>>283571421
>Guy
Clearly favored one student, but it's implied he assisted Tenten with her weapons. Not a horrible teacher
>Kakashi
Whenever he actually gave his students the light of day, they excelled exponentially, still played favorites and neglected the female on his team
>Asuma
Didnt teach them shit. Had a favorite, but still didn't teach him shit other than some philosophical mumbo jumbo about who's "King". Useless teacher overall
>Kurenai
Probably the most useless. Potentially helped Hinata, but doesn't seem like it. Same league as Asuma in actually teaching her students.

>>283571479
>could Sage Naruto have just pulled out the chakra receivers
He did that after beating the last Pain to prevent any respawn. The issue is that it's not any easier than beating up the body.

>>283571525
Maybe to go with the scroll?

>>283571606
>why Mikoto didn't offer to adopt Naruto
They wouldn't let a uchigger adopt the nine-tails

>>283571610
not sure what'd be worse to deal with, Itachi/Kisame or Sasori/Deidara

>>283571626
You made me realize all 6 of the Asuma/Kurenai students are from the Konoha clans, not a single random normie in sight. They really didn't have to do anything for them, no wonder they found time to fuck.

>>283571645
If Itachi fought him he'd be soft and use genjutsu to finish him (i doubt he'd need tsukuyomi).

>>283571645
How is that even a question?
>Nagato/Konan
>Itachi/Kisame
>Sasori/Deidara
>Kakuza/Hidan

Clear rankings

>>283571626
>but it's implied he assisted Tenten with her weapons
He also tried to teach them all the gates and lotus

>>283571431
>I don't know if Japan liked him as much as the west did
I would at least assume that getting a spinoff means that he's clearly worth a lot more than most of the other cast

>>283571709
Guy's only drawback is he's heavily taijutsu oriented, so his students may not be well rounded or get experience in other areas, but he clearly pushes all of them.

>>283571714
I wonder which other characters could plausibly hold their own short spin-off, I mean something longer than a basic one-shot

>>283571347
before thread dies soon, what's the #1 O MY RUBBER NEN moment of Naruto?

>>283571744
>which other characters could plausibly hold their own short spin-off
Tenten.

>>283571431
Wrong. Lee had a perfect opportunity to bring back drunk fists during the war against Madara. Pretty sure Madara even made some comments how choreographed Gay and his attacks were. It would have been nice to see Lee show development with the drunken fists so he wasn't just an inferior carbon copy of Guy.

>505 page 3
mission accomplished

>>283571773
>end a chapter cliffhanger with Lee pulling a bottle out of his bag
that would've made my whole week back then.

>>283571733
Hyuuga are also taijutsu-focused, and Tenten probably got shuffled into that group because she was a dunce when it camed to jutsu. Guy was the best teacher all three could've got.

>>283571744
>I wonder which other characters could plausibly hold their own short spin-off, I mean something longer than a basic one-shot
Give us some Sannin action you HACKS

>>283571813
I don't disagree Guy was a perfect match for them, but had he got a Sasuke, Shikamaru or Shino, I don't think he would have been the best teacher for them. Ironically, he is one of the few that probably could have handled Itachi on his own.

>>283571843
>kid Tsunade spinoff
yes please

>>283571849
>Sasuke
Well he WAS able to bullshit a 1st Gate technique to win against Yoroi, maybe he was a sleeper taijutsu master

>>283565783
Han

>>283571877
It is interesting to consider Sasuke went to Orochimaru to defeat Itachi and even admitted neither were strong enough on their own, but Guy could have solo'd Itachi and even taught Sasuke as many gates as he needed to take on Itachi by himself.

>>283571849
>but had he got a Sasuke, Shikamaru or Shino, I don't think he would have been the best teacher for them
Sasuke was about to get to weightless Lee speed in like a month

>>283571766
Pain bringing everyone back to life

>>283571867
>chestlet spinoff
gross

>>283571912
>Sasuke was about to get to weightless Lee speed in like a month
Thanks to Kakashi

>>283571766
O MY IZANAGI EYE

>>283571766
>Because you let Rin die
>Coolest guy
Or >>283571918

>>283571935
getting to watch a girl grow into a woman is for a refined palate.

>>283571766
Obito surviving being crushed by a boulder and becoming a Kage-tier threat after a few years.

>>283571938
Don't be retarded. The point is Sasuke would do fine under Guy if he can get to Lee's speed so easily.

>>283571967
>t. groomer

>>283571766
I still think Isshiki existing pretty much outdid any asspull the series has had.

>>283572007
you're supposed to groom girls. when you don't, they grow up feral and become completely unhinged BPDemons as an adult. it is your job as an adult to groom children

>>283571996
>he can get to Lee's speed so easily
Again, only because Kakashi understood the sharingan. He would have had to do it the old fashioned way with Guy, which is fine, but Kakashi was the best teacher for Sasuke.

>>283572019
He couldn't really do anything until he met Amado and used his science.

>>283572120
But the fact that he lived for so long and NOBODY ever knew he existed feels like hackery.

>>283572160
As Jigen people would think he was just some dude. And if he mostly kept to himself, nobody would realize the guy is living longer than regular humans.

>>283572189
Even then that nobody ever noticed anything strange about him feels weird. Basically you have to accept that for example during this time period of the manga(as in the chapter of this story time) the dude is just in the background taking notice of shit happening, like somebody trying to gather the Bijuus.

>>283572055
Orochimaru-sensei...

>>283572690
>headcanon

>>283571766
There's way too many here to single out just one
Multiple things involving Obito as a character

>>283572810
imagine at the end of Hisoka vs Chrollo that Hisoka just rips out one his eyes and we find out that Chrollo was bombing an illusory Hisoka for the past 10 minutes

>>283566289
>Goku was never retarded
>Anon tries to prove him wrong by posting Super fanfiction
so you admit that other anon was right

>>283572690
Lol. This was the only Naruto game I played. Hilarious how they had no idea what to do with Sakura

>>283572810
>>283572849

>>283569975
99.99% of the time in the way Naruto used the clones, they had the same experience anyway, or it was so subtle he wouldn't have noticed "I punched and kicked Gaara, but I also have the memory of kicking and punching Gaara" type of shit

>>283564677
>>283565522
>>283570013
all you had to do as a writer is make Naruto say "Yeah, I think I have heard something like that in school" and then let Kakashi continue to explain

>>283573171
>>283573112
I wonder where they got the navel piercings from

>>283571854
Mom swap is best ship.