Thread 283595096

anything more bleak than this? is Ergo Proxy worth my time?

>>283595096 (OP)
>is Ergo Proxy worth my time?
narrative is kinda weird and moderately amateurish but the directing is good
try swan song if you play vns or werckmeister harmonies if you watch films

>>283595144
>bela tar
brutal, thank you

>>283595096 (OP)
>Ergo Proxy worth my time?
Fuck no. Ergo Proxy is kept in the popular consciousness by the fact that everyone wants to bang the chick from Evanescence

>>283595096 (OP)
ergo proxy is shit, but you will keep watching just for evanescence chick

>>283595096 (OP)
Bokurano
that's just depression distilled into a mecha series that cant even lighten the mood with its mech fights

I want to headpat Pino.

>>283595096 (OP)
Proxy has better characters but Texhnolyze is superior in everything else

>>283595096 (OP)
Wolf's Rain maybe

>>283595096 (OP)
Why does a show need to be 'worth your time'
Just watch 2000s shows for the moody aesthetic.

>>283597737
Star o'the show.
Guess we're doing recs now: Tekkon Kinkurīto

>>283597767
>Proxy has better characters
rewatch texhnolyze. texh literally has ichise, yoshii, kano, shinji. all of them are comfortably way better than that evanescence girl's robot or pino though pino is a cutie

>>283595096 (OP)
>>>/wsr/

>>283597768
Yeah Wolf's Rain is a good recommendation.

nothing else like it in anime really
maybe you can try reading the sea of fertility tetralogy by Mishima

>>283597767
>>283599231
I think texhnolyze has better characters but they're not very complex or dynamic as characters
I'd compare texh characters to like, mythical archetypes. If Texh is supposed to be like a greek tragedy then the archetypes the characters serve serve the narrative well /because/ they're so simple and cutting.
It's like showing the logical conclusions of each character's answer to existential dread by each character embodying a world view

>>283595096 (OP)
boring, the anime

>>283599622
>greek tragedy
have you ever read a greek tragedy

>>283599661
does anabasis count

>>283599674
isnt that history

>>283599661
texh is supposed to be like a greek tragedy though, clearly, so what that anon is saying is not insane

I just want to say that I don't remember much about this anime, but that ed song still makes me sad but in a good way.
https://youtu.be/Rh1hoNwFfg8

>>283595096 (OP)
I would say Gangsta

>>283595096 (OP)
>anything more bleak than this? is Ergo Proxy worth my time?
makes me question if it´s a good thing that Texhnolyze was overly bleak. Most anons don´t get it that the story was about the failed potential of humanity. Maybe it should have been written with a more hopeful tone instead of showing that everything was doomed from the start.
Also read Blame and >>283597768, girls last tour is also pretty bleak,ErgoProxy has peak aesthetics but the writing was bad.

>>283595096 (OP)
>is Ergo Proxy worth my time?
Yeah, sure. I don't know why everyone is telling you to not watch it, I doubt they could even explain *why*. "Something something pretentious too much words" I guess. It's a psychological SF anime, not dissimiliar to Texhnolyze. I liked the visuals a lot. Raul was kino.

>>283599622
>they're not very complex or dynamic as characters
Yes they are. People don't pay attention.

>>283595096 (OP)
Eva. Not even joking.

thanks guys and gm, I will check out Ergo Proxy and Wolf's Rain for now.

>>283597205
I just wish Naru Taru were half as good.

>>283601753
>I doubt they could even explain *why*
I can tell you why *I* don't like it
It feels like it wants to be more meaningful than it is.

>>283595096 (OP)
style over substance. unironically couldnt get past the first 5 minutes. I wish I was memeing

>>283603293
OP here, I would strongly consider if give it more a chance if the overall plot and atmosphere is your sort of thing. again, it's incredibly bleak. I think that first episode has little to maybe zero dialogue. and it was very slow and violent.

>>283595096 (OP)
Bokurano, but read the manga.

>>283601176
>Maybe it should have been written with a more hopeful tone instead of showing that everything was doomed from the start.
I see it as the exploration of one possible future, one where needs have been met to a point where people have to create strife and is so artificial and small that they end up giving up.
Is about alienation

>>283603293
Look at this image.

>>283597768
Wolf's Rain has soulful aesthetics but it's a genuinely shit series otherwise.

>>283603293
it's a show that's very strong stylistically, but it's still far more substance over style. it's thematically very dense

>>283603622
>Wolf's Rain has soulful aesthetics but it's a genuinely shit series otherwise.
the intro was very good, i watched 5 eps to get that same melancholic vibe but there wasn't any

>>283595096 (OP)
Both are utter trash for teens, and it has nothing to do with how bleak or whatever you want to call it they are.

>>283600112
I used to listen to this all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO1HCr-fmnY

>>283603000
How

>>283603658
Please enlighten us, anon

'Style over substance' will never be a real critique. Buzzwords thrown around by idiots for whom current "substance" of the work was already too much.
>No no, you can't simply create striking visuals and mood, if you want to do that you also need to solve multiple mysteries of human condition. Otherwise you are doing a hecking pretension, aswell as being a fucking chud pseud incel
Shut the fuck up

>>283595096 (OP)
>Ergo Proxy worth my time?
I forgot almost everything about the series. I remember I liked the first 4 episodes a lot. Then a lot of weird middle until we reach the last episodes that I started to enjoy again.
You should just watch it and see if you like it or not.

>>283604156
It is a critique. Another topic is if matter or not. I can watch a series just for the animation, style or "vibes" while the plot is nonsense or just the most basic story. But if what the person is looking for is an engaging narrative or topics that will make one think, then he knows he won't find that there or that it won't be explored thoroughly.

style is substance anyway

>>283603758
I remember it having just a random assortment of religious and mythological references and imagery.
Just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
It's like if I ran up to you and said
>Bro, remember the Epic of Gilgamesh? I guess I really made you *think* Huh. I'm so fucking deep
This is different than using religion or ancient mythology to make a point or evoke something.

Blame! is my favorite manga. I prefer Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence to the first movie. I love Lain. So this isn't a dislike for the aesthetics.
There are moments when I hate Eva for doing this same thing too.

>>283604621
>I remember I liked the first 4 episodes a lot.
same

>>283604156
>>283604782
Nothing is a critique if it's not substantiated, but even "style over substance" can be, if it is.
Except people usually do just throw it out like that without elaborating, in which case it's merely a thought-terminating cliché.

>>283604782
>topics that will make one think
I'd say EP has those, if someone really manages to watch it with their brain turned off then it's entirely on them. It's almost always about the work supposedly failing to reach some artificial bar of MEANINGFULNESS that would justify it. Except it's just a cover for failing to make anything out of what you've been shown.
>explored thoroughly.
Visual mediums aren't suited towards that. Criticizing something for not being what it was never ment to be is ridiculous. This is an audience expectations issue, not the issue with work itself. Books exist.
>>283605184
I think it's a bad, illogical formulation. It's possible for some people to use it and then outline the real problem, but the slogan itself strikes me as wrong.

>>283603659
That one is great. I like to listen to this one from time to time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKNv8QKLJeE
>>283605457
>but the slogan itself strikes me as wrong.
Same, and that's why I never use it.

>>283605647
a lot of people shit on empty age for some reason but i really like it

>>283605908
I have literally never seen a single person shit on that song in the 18 or so years I've been exposed to Texhnolyze discussion on the net or the monthly threads this show gets

>>283604621
>>283605080
glad to see others feel the same way.
Its not a bad show, a lot of style. although a bit pretentious, but I like that sometimes.
The beginning plus (some of) the end is good, the middle road-trip philosophical part is fine in isolation, but I felt the two didn't mesh together.
I like a lot of the parts, but the whole didn't quite click with me.

>>283595096 (OP)
Post your anilist account

https://anilist.co/user/nyy/

>>283598744
I love Pino so much.

>>283605000
I don't remember the show too well, but I mostly just recall them bringing up a variety of, mostly French, authors and philosophers. There was definitely Derrida. IIRC it wasn't completely arbitrary, at least some of their works dealth with similiar issue as the anime. It was also aesthetically coherent, tell me this doesn't scream France to you.
Either way, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with just name dropping works and authors that made an impression on you.
I have a suspicion that it makes some people subconsciously feel like the work is taunting them for not being familiar with this stuff, but I don't think this was ever the intention lol

>>283603293
its art house you just got filtered because you expect to be spoon fed exposition and static shots where characters yap

>>283605943
i saw it multiple times being said that it wasn't fitting lol

>>283606265
>I have a suspicion that it makes some people subconsciously feel like the work is taunting them for not being familiar with this stuff, but I don't think this was ever the intention lol
Have you ever dealt with people that constantly reference concepts, ideas and authors that they don't understand? I think people look at it more like that moreso than feeling attacked for possibly not getting some reference themselves.
That said, namedropping something doesn't automatically mean it's used incorrectly, but it can be done in infuriating ways.

Lain, Boogiepop Phantom, Bokurano, Paranoia Agent. And Yes, Ergo Proxy is a great anime. I'll never forget that episode about Disney.

>>283606517
>Have you ever dealt with people that constantly reference concepts, ideas and authors that they don't understand?
Admittedly not. They likely exist, though.
I just think that people use this accusations far too lightly. It's fairly damning and I see it pop up ALWAYS when a popular work brings up something "serious" "high brow" "prestige", it's a kneejerk reaction.

>>283606517
>Have you ever dealt with people that constantly reference concepts, ideas and authors that they don't understand?
Yes, I've read a few of Anno's interviews.

>>283595096 (OP)
>is Ergo Proxy worth my time?
if you want to laugh at the culmination of 2000s tryhard edge for a bit maybe, otherwise the majority of the show is actually spent on a featureless snowy wasteland away from the interesting cyberpunk aesthetics and the few genuinely daring and creative episodes are let down by the extremely inconsistent presentation

>>283606071
I don't watch too much anime to be honest. watched Cowboy Bebop on Toonami back in the day. Otherwise I've seen Serial Experiment Lain (loved it), Texh of course (loved it). I am separately going thru FMA Brotherhood right now and really really enjoy that too - it's a nice palate cleanser to Texh. I have been told to watch Attack on Titan too. The anime world is very new to me. I am in my late 30s and have an undergrad philosophy degree that I do not use

>>283604156
>Otherwise you are doing a hecking pretension, aswell as being a fucking chud pseud incel
you invalidate your own argument by adding the unecessary unfiltered seething at the end man

>>283607335
No, I think my argument stands because it's correct. Mockery at the end was not crucial, but it doesn't interfere either.

>>283607280
It seems we share some similarities, I also only got into anime in my late 30s. Given from what you posted, I think you will like Ergo Proxy, despite its weaknesses. I sure enjoyed it, and I also enjoyed AoT, so I can recommend that, too.

>>283607182
>people use this accusations far too lightly
Maybe. You'd have to have a grasp of the subject yourself to really understand and point out how a work uses a reference incorrectly, or in the most superficial way. People rarely go in depth on this when such an accusation is made.
But I can't say I've never felt this way before. Whenever Schrödinger's Cat is brought up, I simply reach for my gun.

>>283607448
thanks anon

>>283604960
based

>>283595096 (OP)
I don't remember much from ergo proxy aside from getting me into radiohead. yes i did not know about radiohead in 2010 or whatever

>>283607280
similar case for me, I'm just a little younger. got back into it a year ago after over a decade without watching much at all
if you have the time, try a lot of different genres. it may surprise you what you would now be into. dabble into as much as you can to get a good baseline, don't hesitate to drop or put things on the back burner if they don't click.
at least, that worked for me.

>>283608338
definitely, thanks. I think FMA Brotherhood is a nice balance since it's very well produced, good story, good characters, is "serious and grounded" but also warm and light-hearted at times.

>>283603293
I've never been able to understand how people can so confidently say bullshit like this. How could you even come to the conclusion that there's no substance when you've only watched 5 minutes of a 22 episode series? It's literally not possible

>>283607280
You should watch Mushishi.

What is it with pretentious retards being unable to comprehend the concept of pretense?

Ergo Proxy has one of the best OPs and the best ED of all time

>>283609641
I can, it's a pathetic cope regularly wheeled out by artless parasites.

>>283609834
Ironically, it is the utterly artless who cannot understand it.

Explain the concept of pretense.

I always wondered what cities Lux is based on. I only found this one photo of Paris on director's xitter.
The obelisk is like the Eiffel tower, kind of.

>>283608783
its hilarious because they complain about pretentiousness when they are the dictionary definition of it

>>283602133
>Naru Taru
Its good but need a remake covering the whole thing.

>>283603293
many anons say the start is boring but the atmosphere and soundtrack alone got me hooked

>>283603659
It has a very relaxing atmosphere for cooking at night. I prefer the Haibane Renmei soundtrack, but sometimes I enjoy the melancholic darkness of Tex soundtrack.

>>283611409
Define pretentiousness

>>283603293
First time I also got filtered. Tried it again couple years later and loved it.

If you ever grow tired and apathetic do what Yoshii would, create a spectacle for your life. Man I miss this show, gonna have to rewatch it

>>283603293
you didnt miss much
one of the most overrated anime to ever exist

>>283603293
You missed out one of the most underrated anime in existence.

>>283595096 (OP)
There's always Devilman which is relentlessly bleak. Anyone who calls Evangelion bleak doesnt know what they're talking about. Possibly the most miserable thing I've ever read is Shin Gendai Ryoukiden which contains a manga retelling of the Junko Furuta case but it's extremely graphic obviously. Outside of anime and manga I'd recommend the works of Thomas Ligotti. Back to anime though there is an adaptation of No Longer Human produced by Madhouse so maybe you'd be interested in that.

>>283614862
pretending to have more taste than you do

>>283595096 (OP)
>anything more bleak than this?
Without irony, Madoka Magica.

>>283615713
>do what Yoshii would
Im not that Chad

>>283616952
Hah. No.

>>283617099
For myself personally, you can only make cute magical girls suffer so much before the dissonance between the characters and the ordeals they're going through prevent me from fully appreciating the scale of the tragedy. I was emotionally invested in Madoka, and it sure was depressing, but my engagement with the narrative only went so far as my engagement with the characters themselves. Texhnolyze is the opposite, where I have comparetively little investment in the characters, but the tragedy is felt on like a macro scale. I really felt the full weight of the narrative's implications; that the human race was doomed, and there was no hope of preventing it's eventual extinction, and not because of any existential threat (although there obviously was an existential threat with the robots), but because people on the surface grew sick of living mundane, comfortable, meaningless lives and just decided to hang up their hats and let the world end with them. Those last few episodes were too real. I don't know anything conceptually more bleak and fatalistic than that.

>>283618572
the you was (You)

>>283619205
(You) could have just googled it retard