Thread 283601707

I find it really interesting how the fictional demons are even able to trick real-life viewers into empathizing with them, showing just how effective their tactics are. The whole problem is people seeing the demons as representative of real-life groups when they really aren't.

>>283601707 (OP)
The problem is that people want to fuck the demons. No one cried when they killed the Einsam. Maybe he just wanted to be friends.

>>283601707 (OP)
What if the demons are a metaphor for the bourgeoisie and your aura is actually a metaphor for ones own surplus value of labor?

>>283601795
What if Marx was a psycho hack who's ideology is a structured justification for being a dick that wants to steal other people's stuff

>>283601795
>Flamme is Hegel
You guys need to check out my Marxist reading of Frieren that I left scribbled in sharpie on the walls of the C train this morning.

>>283601844
What if my dick in your butt?

>>283601707 (OP)
It's at least 50% people being unable to read thinking Frieren said "no emotions" and not "No human conception of empathy" so they go "But the demons have emotions"

Yes nigga they do, they ain't human

>>283601739
He clearly wanted to kill them
Not unlike the other demons
Your sexy demon theory might have something to it

>>283601739
No one cared about Qual either

DO NOT READ HEGEL I REPEAT DO NOT READ HEGEL YOU WONT COME OUT UNHARMED

>>283602008
It's too late for me. I wish I could go back to thinking Marx just wanted to make everyone poor again.

>>283602008
I feel like that was intended by the author

Explain to me how the mana of souls isn't labor vaule and I will go back to sleeping on a bench in Central Park.

>>283601707 (OP)
The "tactics" is literally just "be an attractive female"

>>283601795
Go on

>>283601942
I did. I like him more than every other demon besides Aura and Macht.

>>283601707 (OP)
I preferred how Dungeon Meshi represented devils.
They are affable, not because they are faking it
That's kinda their nature.
They don't fuck yo with people because they are evil, they so it because they are not different to other animals and simply want to feed.l.
And they are "nice" to humans not unlike how a succubus would be nice to then, because they are food

>>283602571
Okay but would you fuck a lion

>>283602598
Yeah. You wouldn't?

>>283602610
I don't like where this is going

>>283602635
Its just a very cool and very normal anime discussion about Hegelan dialectics and fucking lions.

>>283601707 (OP)
People have no resistance against lying

Even if they tell you they're lying ahead of time, people still believe it as long as it's convincing enough. You see the same thing in real life, people preaching goodwill to take from you, people will keep falling for it, even if they're directly told or shown it's a lie they still believe it and rationalize to themselves again and again. A high trust society has no defense for blatant liars with no shame.
And liars create low trust societies

>>283601707 (OP)
>The whole problem is people seeing the demons as representative of real-life groups when they really aren't.

No. The issue is that Demons arent well developed and thus contradictory. Frieren on the other hand is a race traitor, that doesnt give a shit about elves. She keeps blabbering how much Humanity has lost to Demons, when her own people are literally dying. Demons at least care about their own species success. They have hierarchy and social dynamics too. Solitär clearly cares more about Demons then Frieren does about her own people.

>>283602999
Just like white americans are fine with being second to blacks and browns, Frieren doesn't mind being second to humans

>>283602689
I wish off topic conversation was a little bit more tolerated because this is hilarious

>>283602999
You're getting your terms mixed up. Jinrui (translated as "Humanity") includes elves, humans and dwarves.

>>283601707 (OP)
People don't emphasize with demons because their tactics and brilliant strategy. In fact theyre so bad at it that the fact that they are monsters is the only thing keeping them alive. If they had no inherent biological advantage not inherent to their muscles and skeletal size they would be utterly btfo by humanity and would be endangered or extinct due to their inability to understand basic things about human existence. To the point that one demon studied humanity for 1000 years and he never figured out what a handshake means.

>>283603150
Humanity has declined.

>>283603150
leave the /pol/fag be

>>283601844
Marx was pro gun rights and he never had his ideology pushed until AFTER his death when it was warped by the soviet dictators.
Marx would flourish in modern USA with it's capitalistic horrors showing true.

>>283601707 (OP)
The problem is the protagonists are just as dry, autistic, and one note as the demons. Without contrast all I see are cute anime girls.

>>283601707 (OP)
Even the demon goes yeah Frieren's description is totally right.

Fucking a lion = thesis
Not fucking a lion = antithesis
Letting the lion fuck you while Elton John plays in the background = synthesis

>>283602598
Yes.
In fact the winged Lion is strangely VERY hot and I think the author was aware of it.

>>283602047
Now what do you think about Marx?

>>283602999
What you have to understand is that elves are like Hispanics in that they are human-passing and proud of the fact
and Frieren is a thousand year-old Nick Fuentes

>>283604855
This is an edit, right?

>>283605760
Yes, you retard.

>>283606043
You were supposed to say no, you newfag.

>>283606077
I'm not a newfag, I've been here all summer.

>>283606103
Based, me too. Just started watching One Punch man season 3, really good so far.

>>283605760
Well, I'm gonna let you in on a secret...

>>283601707 (OP)
Ok why the fuck would an ambush predator develop ability to understand and use speech beyond simple mimicry if it doesn't even bother to join the society it preys on? Demons in this series are just all over the place and I fail to see what is the point the author is trying to get across with them

>>283602571
You are wrong though, the "demons" in meshi is just a fragment of of an eldritch abomination from a magic dimension that has no will or thoughts. By getting into human lands, it grew a conciouness and desires by observing them, it grew obsessed with eating because that's what the humans wanted so badly. So, basically, it is just nature as Macille explained once.

Demons are just badly developed, like the hiding mana thing, that's something that demons, being predators that survive by hunting and tricking prey, would use all the time. But somehow, despite having evolved from predators with highly developed hunting habits, demons somehow have the hunting capabilities of a brick. The author added them already in their finished state and them tried to justify their existence, and yet everything about the demons is half assed and contradictory.

The same with humans somehow not having lore and prejudice about demons, in our own world we tortured people and burned them alive just from suspecting they might be inhuman creatures, are you telling me in a world where survivors of demon attacks are constantly spreading demon hate, humans are still somehow naive and nice creatures that don't hate demons, despite demons killing entire human settlements every single decade? Get the fuck out of here with this shit world building.

Demons always have been the weakest part of Frieren, they are just badly written in every way.

>>283606348
>what is a Fae

>>283601707 (OP)
>I find it really interesting how the fictional demons are even able to trick real-life viewers into empathizing with them, showing just how effective their tactics are
Because they are well written, the same things they used to deceive is what readers use to form attachment. So they feel like they should care about them even though they are shown and told they shouldn't.
It was a much better decision than just keeping them the pure monsterous types like early in the manga (Qual for eg), because you can use them for actual longer running character driven arcs like Macht in Golden Lands

>>283601707 (OP)
The problem is that demons are extremely badly written and are contradictory, and then there are the retards that want to fuck them

>>283606825
A bunch of creatures found in folklore? What's your point?

>>283601707 (OP)
Show me Frieren giving demons education, until then this is badly written.

>>283607262
These creatures are said to do things like cry but they do it to lure humans, which means those things in your post exist irl.

>>283601707 (OP)
You don’t need to see the demons as real life groups to empathize with them.
They’re intelligent animals. We turned wolves into loyal dogs. No reason to think “demons” couldn’t be turned into loyal servants to humans in the same way. I wish the show could take this angle instead of portraying all demon sympathetic humans as ignorant fools.
Maybe this angle is touched on in the manga?

>>283607686
Show me Frieren having sex with me, until then this is badly written.

>>283606676
>humans are still somehow naive and nice creatures that don't hate demons,
The white race exists on our planet anon, and they are the most naive & nice mother fuckers to exist. They are literally being invaded by other races and won't do a damn thing, and even FIGHT for the invasion itself. So yes, some fantasy humans CAN be dumb shite retards who downplay, even support Demon invasion, destruction, up to and including genocide of humans. All it takes is a parasite merchant class spreading mental disease to them.

>>283607792
The problem with the wolf-dog analogy is that we'd need a few Demons who would do the initial approach. Basically being the "good boy" wolfs that trade food and safety for help hunting. That is how dogs got made.

Problem is Demons eat humans, where wolves don't really make humans their main food source. So there is a high bar for required trust to let a Demon join your hunting party. You can sleep with a fuzzy wolf and be safe because it's full. Frieren shows you can take a demon in and feed it to full and it STILL murders you. THAT is a fundamental problem and road block to making Demons pets.

Our pets don't eat our faces off until they are hungry. That is manageable. Eating our faces off when not hungry - that is NOT manageable. We would NOT keep pets if there was a 10% chance some random day they'd just kill us in our sleep.

>>283608179
Kids still get mauled by pit bulls every day lol yet we just call those dog owners idiots and keep breeding more demons

>>283608216
Pit bulls are just proof that some types of animals are inherently crazy and violent no matter how nice you are to them

>>283608034
>white people are being invaded
Like where? The UK? A Roman Colony? Or America? A colony of a Roman colony? All lands occupied by white people were first stolen from others. Only the UK can claim to have been originally “white” but Rome was not an ethnically pure nation and neither has the UK been since Rome colonized it.

>>283608216
That's humans being dumbshites though. We did that to the dogs, it's not a natural thing that was always there. We taught them to be nasty little cunts so they could fight in pits and had the surprised pinkachu face when they mauled people. We also made stupid rat tier dogs too so we could put them in purses. Humans went hog wild with selective breeding shit.

Point is nothing stops you from getting a goldie or a sheepdog, and you will be 100% safe. Getting a war dog and not expecting violence is just humans being stupid.

That being said, I bet you COULD breed the whole eat your face shit out of Demons. You'd just need to enslave them for a little bit - do some selective breeding over a lot of generations - and make human-compatible demons. It would be rough though since they have similar or longer lifespans. Dogs were easier since they have 1-2 decades compared to our century cap.

>>283608283
Pretty much all white areas have accepted mass invasion and various whites publicly support being invaded and replaced. It's fucking UN policy at this point.

Even psych tests have shown half of whites have an out-group preference while no other race exhibits that trait. The fundamental idea that humans can't literally bow to invaders is false - we have direct evidence of them doing in it our world. It's rare yes, but we have a case to study. If you could magic Demons into existence on Earth, whites would 100% defend them eating people. There would be protest groups trying to save Demons. There would be activists that try to get them rights and import them.

>>283607754
Are you retarded?

>>283606676
Mana thing makes perfect sense if you understand that it specifically meant the constant suppression technique and not the suppression techniques in general. Temporary suppression is something they understand and use without any problems. It's the much more costly effort wise and much more risky long term constant suppression that confuses them. And why is it risky in long term? Because flaunting your mana level is the basic way the establish hierarchy among themselves and the basic way creatures possessing mana show to others that they aren't worth fighting with. Think about it like about the lions. They are very stealthy when they are hunting, but when they aren't they are purposely being loud and showy to discourage other animals from messing with them.

>>283608471
folklore comes from people and that comes from sightings and experience. There are people who saw gnome, real elves, the fae and transmitted it to us. That is why the stories exist.

>>283608500
Why do demons have a hierarchy? They don't tend to their young and as ambush predators it makes close to zero sense for them not to lead a solitary lifestyle. Why did they develop a large mana pool and great magic affinity? It's completely unnecessary to have both human like appearance and speech ability and such an overwhelming fire power

>>283608584
Retarded it is

>>283601707 (OP)
The retards complaining about demons in Frieren are the same retards that conflated Tolkien orcs with black people. How fucking stupid do you have to be to admit you think of demons and orcs in the same way you see black people and other minorities. You can't make this shit up.

>>283608660
Their hierarchy was primarily formed by combination of two factors. First, the initial anomaly, the Demon King. He was explicitly an abnormal specimen, both in terms of raw power and mental capabilities. He was the one to essentially force weaker demons into working for him while he tended to his goals. And where did he came from? He was a mutant in modern terms. That's how he's presented so far. A mutant smart enough to push his race towards working together under his yoke. The second factor was the fact that hunting together made them go from "dangerous but beatable" to "almost wiped out the elves before advent of first modern-like mage schools". Also, their hierarchy is based on their mana pools, which is as close as you can get to objective yardstick on how powerful they are. Rest is resolved by normal fights about pecking order.

Second, large mana pool is something monsters have, same with the initial magic powers. We've met non-demon magical mimic monsters who clearly used magic as either weapon or part of their mimicry, so it makes sense that demons, their relatives, are the same. Especially since we actually do get to see that their mimicry wasn't as perfect as you imply. For most of their history as magical conquerors, they looked closer to Qual and Basalt rather than Aura and Macht. They needed the raw power. As for the affinity to becoming mages, it's also a side affect of their intellect. Becoming smart as part of becoming better mimics directly translated to becoming better at using magic.

>>283605760
The text obviously, but the scene is intended to look sexual, even if technically the Lion is just feeding.
Hell, there's another scene with an elf being "attacked" by a goat devil that truly looks as if the goat was sucking his dick against his will

>>283606629
I'm shit at explaining, but my point remains.
The devils at dungeon meshi aren't evil as in Frieren or other series. What they do is just part of their nature and not out of malice or cruelty, as you said

>>283601707 (OP)
>I find it really interesting how the fictional demons are even able to trick real-life viewers into empathizing with them
not really, all the same commies whined about goblin slayer too for all the same reasons.

>>283609041
I'm not implying their mimicry is perfect. I'm saying It is unreasonably advanced for something that barely has any use.
Generally the idea that monsters have huge mana pools and overwhelming fire power yet resort to underhanded tactics for no reason other than just because makes very little sense. Like an average demon even if it looked and sounded nothing like a human could enter any human village at night and erase it from the face of the earth.
With such creatures roaming around human race had no hopes of surviving, and the creature capable of pulling this off had no reason to pivot into developing any other tools to secure its niche.
The link between mimicry and intelligence is also a far fetched one. We have fucking plants in real life use the tactic. Clearly there's a pretty big gap between being able to imitate sounds and developing a rational mind.
Now the advent of the demon king as the origin of demon society only makes sense retroactively, and even then the narrative still contradicts it as the demons still do not care for their young.
If the demon king is an outlier, the rest of the demons have no business having such large mana pools since there were no evolutionary pressure for it to that to happen given that their prey is weaker than them and they led a solitary lifestyle.
Them grouping up to become a bigger threat makes sense from the stand point of a conquering sovereign nation, but not from a stand point of survival. I'd recon demon king would find it difficult to roam around, gather and keep on a tight leash all of the demons living who knows how many kilometers apart from each other. They have no instinctual need for a community neither for safety reasons nor for the reasons of food procurement.

>>283610010
The whole point is that the voice mimicking monsters became horrors warranting the name of the demons when they stumbled upon the evolution of higher intellect and with it the ability to properly use magic. It made their magical power skyrocket since it allowed them to create new spells and properly train their power and technique.

Also, I meant outlier in terms of raw power and mental capabilities, not outlier as only one who was a powerful mage.