Thread 283637545

I don't know how else to describe it, but I find that many action scenes in anime, while being technically impressive are pointless and forgettable. There is too much motion and the fights feel weightless.

>>283637545 (OP)
Do you prefer the more on model style western animation for fights? It's way less loose.
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/238074

>>283637545 (OP)
I have a couple of questions for you Jeremy: why haven't you killed yourself yet? Surely life in Africa can't be good. Why do you still cling to life? So you can seethe about nu-gen shonen outgrossing Dead Author Ball Z?

>>283637545 (OP)
The "camera" runs circles around the scene effect is super easy to do with 3D CG and it impresses people who are easily amazed/don't know better.

It's one of the annoying cliches we have to live with, like villains saying omoshiroi with an obnoxiously tryhard voice.

thinking man's anime fights have peaked with Kazemakase Tsukikage Ran

>>283637594
I don't think it's about "west vs east" -- modern western shows are pretty bad at this too. Lots of flashing lights, repetitive hits, and explosions, but the actual action choreography itself usually isn’t that interesting or engaging. You see that problem in both anime and action cartoons.
What you linked, though, is pretty good when it comes to actually letting you see the characters move. Personally, I like being able to follow what's happening but maybe that's just my old man constitution.

>>283637545 (OP)
Watch better anime.

>>283637545 (OP)
it looks like everything is melting

>>283637795
Well I only bought up the west because lot of the older stuff before the big anime influence took over was very on model compared to anime which makes the action feel more weighted while anime looseness does help with the movement though.

>>283637727
There's no 3D in that clip. I remember people on sakuga twitter were losing their minds over it when it came out because it was all hand drawn.

>>283637795
Demon Slayer was a mistake, holy shit.

>>283637545 (OP)
>watched garbage (MHA)
>gets garbage
>wtf why am I getting garbage?

>>283637872
All that effort in service of something so shitty is a tragedy.

>>283637889
MHA actually has a budget, so you know the action scenes in anything else will be worse. Only adaptations of popular battle shonen get big budgets

>>283637920
I never talked about budget. It is not a factor. You can have good fights with or without budget, and you can also have shit with budget (MHA)

>>283637872
>There's no 3D in that clip
are you retarded? you act as if animators don't trace 3D scenes for complexe camera movements, or straight up use 3D for the background as is.

>>283637872
sweet child

>>283637811
>watch better anime
>posts fucking Escaflowne
Just because it's old, that doesn't magically mean it's not a ginormous pile of shit.
What's next, talking up Garzey's? V Gundam?

>>283637545 (OP)
That looks great. Most shows can't get anywhere near that.

>>283637727
>>283638001
You still have to draw over that shit. (Well, you don't HAVE to, but then it'd be straight-up CG.) Keeping track of positions and camera movements with a CG reference means they're making an effort to AVOID the sort of random lightshow fights these threads usually complain about, and that's a good thing.

>>283637795
I miss 4kids TMNT.

>>283639790
I just picked something that looked good out of my GAR folder. No matter what you pick someone will whine. Today it was you.

>>283639809
>You still have to draw over that shit.
and? tracing 3D is still shit, rotoscoping is still shit, did you miss those threads too?
>means they're making an effort to AVOID the sort of random lightshow fights
so instead of random lightshows we now get erratic vomit tier camera movement and that's somehow better?
literally all they need is to DO LESS

>>283639790
Oh, I have some Gundam too.

>>283640200
now that's some good shit

>>283640078
>Escaflowne
>GAR
Use words you know the meaning of retard.
>>283640200
>watch better anime
>CCA

a lot of animators think that more = better. unfortunately, a lot of anime fans also think the same
so in the end, you get an echo of exaggerated nonsense with awful choreography being released, and dimwits calling it "peak"

Hollywood went through the same phase, although nowadays you can find some movies (both in the high-end and low-end of budgets) that understand what a good scene is

>>283640310
Stay mad I guess.

>>283640674
I'm not the one proclaiming how people need to seek out good anime while posting dogshit

>>283637545 (OP)
That's actually one of the better ones, pretty easy to follow and the animator can actually animate the carriage of the body (including complicated movements like spinning on one's head)

>>283640078
imagine seeing a babe like Kanzaki Hitomi and then going GAR because some gay ass toy robots are playfighting in the background

>>283637545 (OP)
action sakuga has become a cringe meme.

>>283637545 (OP)
It's like a drone is pulling off the perfect flight and capturing every crucial camera angle. That's too artificial.

>>283637545 (OP)
this is literally the scene at the end of avengers but anime

>>283640200
>movie
cheating. Post something done in a week or i acept your consession

>>283637811
>>283640078
>>283640200
>>283640674
>>283640876
These look like shit. Where's the cubes? Why is everything not moving a x4 speed? And why can I see everything clearly?

>>283637545 (OP)
We can either have spastic ADHD animation or we get PowerPoint presentation.

>>283637545 (OP)
That was one of the worst things I've ever seen.
We need to go back.

>>283641053
I'd rather have a thoughtfully directed/choreographed powerpoint than spastic fluff.

>>283641092
Everyone who says this probably barely watches anime.

>>283637811
Escaflowne's plot and characters are garbage, but I can't argue with 00s Sunrise mecha animation

>>283637545 (OP)
The nips already have a term for this; "masturbation". Which is exactly what this is, animators masturbating their skills without thought for direction or choreagraphy.

>>283637545 (OP)
Yeah. I get the same feeling in all these big mainstream battle manga. JJK, MHA, KNY. Thats why I don't like watching them. I can't quite describe it as well but it's basically that if you can't track what is moving in which direction and the camera is freaking out you can't tell if you're watching a lot of impressive action or the camera is just crazy and if some of these feats here are impressive you don't even get a second to appreciate it before it moves on to another thing.

>>283641126
That's not 00s you poser faggot

>>283641113
>Barley watches my hero Slopademia and Jew Jewitsu kiken

>>283641126
Everyone laugh at this dingus for getting the wrong decade (but the right idea).

>>283637545 (OP)
It's a consequence of animators trying too hard to create visually interesting action, instead of trying to realistically convey the actual action taking place and the weight and impact behind every blow. It probably gets posted all too often whenever this is brought up I'm sure, but the fight between Asuka and the mass productions Evas is probably the best example I can think of to show what I mean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBhbZMHgDqg
Notice how theres very little camera movement, just simple pans and still shots. The editing is what sets the tempo of the scene - often cutting on impact or just before, using wide shots to show the full scale of the combat, and then switching to close ups for details that otherwise would be missed. This is the basics of cinema, but it is at risk of getting lost in animation when people try too hard to push the medium to its limits without paying attention to the basics. The rules of cinema still apply to animation. I hate the obsession with long takes generally because they don't often serve a greater purpose than just being a novelty.

>>283637545 (OP)
This isn't the worst example by a long shot but it's just some slightly sloppy directing.
My pet peeve is a bit of lack of visual continuity, the way the helicopter and Bakugo sort of teleport around without too much regard for where they were before the camera pans away

>>283641113
Other way around. Everyone who says this has watched too much anime and understands that flashy animation in service of trash is a waste of time. Berserk 98 was fucking awesome.

>>283641387
I should've said *mostly very little camera movement, there are a few shots with quite frenetic camera movement but they are the exception not the rule.

>>283641387
Not a criticism of you but >4k.

>>283637887
Demon Slayer has good action
Yeah it's super flashy and has tons of motion, but it actually does it right
Everything actually feels impactful, there's real weight to it
Not like what OP posted that feels more like a dream sequence than an actual fight

>>283641497
Demon Slayer is the same shit from a different asshole.

>>283640135
Rotoscoping is awesome if you don't suck at it

>>283641387
All you did was talk about the storyboarding rather than the actual animation.

>>283641490
it was the first video I saw, leave me alone

>>283640200
Maybe it's my modern sensibilities but this feels too weightless to me
The choreography is great but the way things move when they get hit doesn't feel crunchy enough, like they started moving away from the impact AS they were hit rather than BECAUSE of the hit

my question is why does it always take you retards 10+ years to get fatigued of obviously shit and obnoxious things? you're about a two decades late to be complaining about flashing lights, cubes, and jangling keys.

>weightless
>crunchy
Wow you guys really know your stuff when it comes to discussing animation techniques haha

>>283641516
Why?

>>283641402
You really just proved my point. The first thing that came into your head was Berserk, but even then the idea is so distant from you that you can't even get the year right.

>>283641609
I'm using more vague terms and broad concepts because there are a ton of different ways to do it, depending on the style you're going for
I'm not gonna say everything needs to have an extra second of impact frames and a zoom in with the background flashing when someone lands a punch, that's only appropriate for certain kinds of action.

>>283637545 (OP)
This is fine
Now post the one where it's just the animator splashing inks all over the screen

>>283640135
It looks fine, assuming that's what they did. Doesn't have rotoscoping's weird feel (other than the slow-mo ice-shattering bit), and you get the fancy camerawork of 3D while keeping the art drawn in 2D, which I appreciate. If you want LESS DONE, I'll trade your show's animation teams with mine.

>>283641640
Yeah this is a bad action sequence
The animation is fantastic but the choreography is terrible

>>283641570
Something something inertia in space

>>283641545
Fair point, the editing has little to do with the animation itself. Opting for still backgrounds and forgoing any extraneous movement other than the characters is both a choice of direction and also a reason why the animation succeeds at conveying the action. Choosing what to animate and what not to animate concerns animation. Having the robots move with slow, heavy movements conveys the scale and weight of what is happening. Opting to stay on-model instead of allowing animators to get loose with line art during action creates a clear and easy-to-follow fight scene, and the gore and destruction is only made more impactful when depicted in such a realistic way. That's about all I have to say, otherwise all the stuff about editing is still relevant to creating a good action sequence, whether animated or not.

>>283641053
>video-card error
This shit had better not be a virus or something.

>>283641801
That's fine when the mechs are moving before or after they tough each other, but when a giant machine gets hit hard enough to break, the impact does not look like this

>>283641387
People fellated Asuka vs MP Evas so much that I was completely disappointed when I actually saw it. Clumsy lumbering shit. Looked worse than the show.

>>283641802
>Opting to stay on-model instead of allowing animators to get loose with line art during action creates a clear and easy-to-follow fight scene
Shinya Ohira and Shinji Hashimoto action scenes are mostly readable in spite of flaunting these rules. Just a nitpick

>>283641863
Go back to your shitty containment general Juan, the adults are talking. You can wank over beamspam and Naotoshi Shida's hideous slop there.
>>>/dbs/

There's that fantastic fight in Katanagatari, the fight vs Sabi. To be honest I dropped the show because there were many words and I got bored but the preview looked amazing

is this sakuga?

>>283642109
Jiggle jiggle

>>283641606
Because there are more newfags every day, there are people getting tired of shounenshit every day too.

>>283642109
Yes. Great choreography.

>>283642109
That is very well choreographed

this scene stood out to me because you hardly ever get scenes that combine action and fanservice in modern animes.

>>283642228
She looks shaved.

>>283637545 (OP)
What I don't understand are the cubes. Why is everything cubes?

>>283642228
We're talking about good action, not horny action

>>283642228
Do you have more than two seconds?

>>283642250
That is a very good question
I'd really prefer to see things break realistically

>>283642267
Of course not, then he'd have to show it's not well choreographed

>>283642228
wait I meant to post this one. queen's blade is old now and had great animation for what it was.

>>283642267
here's 3 it's the best I can do

>>283642304
oh yeah how's this for choreography?

>>283642393
That is admittedly really good
I still hate this, but it's not the fault of the choreography

>>283642393
Haha, why does this exist? Is that Nukitashi?

>>283637545 (OP)
Ahem.

Dishonest animation.

>>283637545 (OP)
>too much motion
>in animation
Cant keep up with your adhd?

>>283640876
>speedlines for backgrounds
Always forgot anime didnt have a budget back then

>>283642109
both of them are now deaf

>>283642109
Its hard to follow, so no

>>283637545 (OP)
>>283637727
>>283642005
And there’s Duku just standing there doing absolutely nothing with his super power to knock the guy out who was in ice or shoot the copper with rocks. Worst mc ever.

>>283643286
My man one of the anons you replied to is trolling with a fake fight

>>283642393
should i keep watching this? Even though there's fucking every ep, it was weirdly not hot and not turning me on at all, maybe im getting old.

>>283642393
They just don't make anime like this anymore.

>>283637545 (OP)
stop blog posting, cuckerican. no one cares about you

This is the gold standard for me.

- No dialog
- Letting music and sound shine
- Using silence to make the spectator inmersed in the fight
- Fixated camera angles with cuts, no shaky camera, no one shot sequences
- Characters using strategy instead of just brute force, or OP martial arts.

TV anime can't replicate this, too advanced for japanese creators, they need their charcters to shout technique names while having unnatural color hair and rotoscoped bullshit.
https://youtu.be/TWSWBRfZ0vA?si=iuOHtS_3fqZB4RYG

>>283643503
isn't this shit last season?

Theres a fundamental difference in the feeling of seeing "limited" animation versus "full" animation. Essentially theyve attempted to combine the two when thats a total mistake. A good animation plan will include good use of both forms. The lack of coherence and planning is usually due to the animation directors not having sufficient low-level experience with both forms. One of the guiding principles of early anime, was ironically, "It cannot move." They knew the technical ability to fool the eye into seeing motion from individual images was not cheap enough yet, so they developed many substitute techniques, that are now derided as "powerpoint" anime. Full animation has always been the cointerpoint to this, but is prohibitively expensive. Thus the well-directed anime *must* have a good mixture of both. Even OVA works and films that are not budget-first know how important it is to reserve resources for the critical moments.

What I see out of a lot of modern crap, is a total failure to economize resources. Sure, CG can make good looking dynamic backgrounds cheaply and easily; but to make the rest of the scene fit with its "full animation," theyre not actually doing full animation. Its cubes, more CG, tweening, every trick they can to make it look good without actually being good.

>>283643584
>They knew the technical ability to fool the eye into seeing motion from individual images was not cheap enough yet
What the fuck do you mean the "technical ability" was not cheap enough?

>>283643607
I mean, its very expensive to produce animation, full animation. Always has been. Design, drawing, Ink, cels, film, photography, printing. Try paying attention to the credits sometime. I love seeing and figuring out the little cost-cutting tricks they use when they can, because that means more time and money for more full animation.
My favorite example: Go watch the first opening for Fist of the North Star. The mirage effect looks good but is shockingly simple - wiggling the layered cels in photography.

What makes an action scene well-animated?

>>283637545 (OP)
OP, why are you watching superheros?
You are grown man, why are you watching a show that has superheros and a school as a setting?

>>283643584
No one does full animation in 2D anymore, having "too much action" =/= full animation. It died shortly after disney stopped doing 2D

>>283637545 (OP)
>Yutapon cubes

>>283643562
>TV anime can't replicate this

Literally both versions of Gon vs Hisoka meet your criteria

>>283642393
That's honestly pretty good, even if I don't like Nukitashi.

>>283643725
Full animation's time-consuming and it requires high expertise. These aren't really contingent on the amount of money available (for better or worse, although it should be since animators would be more well off).

>>283643892
post the pov dodge from s5

>>283641497
>Demon Slayer has good action
Agreed. It’s tiring to see it constantly picked on for being “slop” (word has lost all meaning) which often just translates to “normies like it, therefore slop”

Personally I think this is one symptom of a larger problem stretching multiple mediums. All these "artists" nowadays are trying to make their favorite things but cooler or combined together instead of something based on reality, emotions, or autistic vision. Just a few layers into this imitation cycle and your piece is so far detached from reality that there's nothing connecting the viewer. No foundation or substance to the work, its hollow but dressed up real pretty. Nothing but imitation, fancy lights, and focusing on things like sakuga and sound design for their own sakes instead of what those things can do to further the core of your piece. Basically, everything's a copy of a copy of a copy and all the sovl drained out over time like artifacts on a jpg. Unfortunately the equally hollow and soulless masses eat this shit up like candy so it won't stop any time soon.

>>283644587
Criticize DS for its plot, its pacing, its characters, that's all fine. (I read the manga before watching the anime, so the fights were many times less interesting to see, and I liked it quite a bit, but I won't pretend it doesn't have a ton of things that it could have done far better than it did)
But don't say it's got bad action. If you want to see a beautiful and brilliantly put together fight, Demon Slayer absolutely delivers.

>>283637545 (OP)
Spectacle "fights" like that are always terrible. Where it's more about faux-grandiosity and scale, than two people actually fighting.
The Naruto v Pain fight inspired a whole new generation of them.

>>283644707
Trvth

>>283644707
if that was true you could still recognize the original good thing they were trying to copy. modern anime is just shit copying shit.

>>283644707
Every day I wonder how many times and in how many ways people can restate that retarded Miyazaki quote, all while being convinced they're saying something deep.

>>283643892
I still don't get why so many people like this show, the protagonist is such a limp dick dipshit and so much of the show revolves around him. Its quite annoying how in anime nowadays you either get a boring, bland ass dipshit like in Solo leveling/run of the mill Isekai or you get boring, frustrating pussies like in BnH.

I liked the action scenes in Noir

>>283637545 (OP)
This is just a modern take on 2D background animation that you'd see on some old lavish anime productions. It's not that hard to follow, and it's nice to see animators push the possibilities of 2D animation instead of using 3D backgrounds in scenes with dynamic camerawork. It feels like people who complain about this scene dislike the stark contrast in detail between the 2D animated backgrounds vs the usual background art, since 2D background aren't as detailed and are coloured differently due to being an animation "cel" layer as opposed to being the background art layer which would be made by a background art studio.

>>283644755
Naruto vs Pain IS a fight with important stakes and scale in the story. It's absurd to reduce it to merely being "two people fighting". It's absolutely a fight which benefited from lavish animation. Whether you liked the approach taken by the team is another matter.

>>283645250
Same anon. Except maybe for the weird stair scene where everybody kept missing their shots, most if not all of the other scenes were fantastic. Not to mention the music

>>283645250
I liked the action scenes in Grenadier.

>>283637545 (OP)
It's a children's cartoon. You've grown older and your brain has matured. This is what children's cartoon look like and, while the technical details are different, this is essentially how they have always looked to adults.

>>283641570
they are in space and are using back and side thrusters to prevent being flung away.

>>283646395
That makes it worse, not better

>>283639790
V Gundam is kino and has some of the best mecha fight choreography for a 50 episode show.

>>283637545 (OP)
Often less is more.

>>283646478
That's just floaty acrobatics. Not a good sword fight.

>>283646491
You can feel the weight of the sword.

>>283646422
they are also trying to evade each other's attacks, it's two near equal capacity machine engaged in dog fighting.

>>283646511
The bone of it.

>>283646511
It's ok, but the choreography is uninspired and some of the movements are floaty.

>>283641083
in this 27 second clip, a good 15 seconds is literally just still frames. Cool looking still frames, but still frames none the less

I would urge everyone itt to go watch episode 1 of the "Tatsuki Fujimoto 17-26" that came out today

>>283646491
>>283646585
"floaty" is not a criticism

>>283646694
It came out yesterday. It was good though

>>283646694
I heard only one episode has good animation and the rest is just average.

was this good animation?

>>283646520
Again, it's the impact of hits that's the problem

>>283646793
Good animation, bad choreography

>>283637811
This looks like garbage.

>>283646470
Every Gundam is someone's least favorite.
0079 is the closest to being beyond reproach but even that get's a fair amount of hate from so called Gundam fans.

>>283643892
The artstyle. Damnachi looks better than everything else in this thread.

>>283646955
Low-quality posts are not encouraged on this board

>>283637545 (OP)
this single handedly mogs all of the moeshit tranime

Modern action scenes are better than ever. The energy they convey is simply unmatched

>>283646793
I think the issue stems from the 3D model rather than the technique of the animator

>>283647019
What show is this

>>283646793
Dreadful

>>283646978
NTA, and I don't even like Danmachi, but shut the fuck up faggot.

>>283647056
Yaiba

>>283647140
>NTA
Yeah sure
Anyway stop making shitty posts

>>283647259
Funny because OP says people forget these scenes but everyone remembers the Broly movie more than anything else in the thread.

>>283647318
Nobody watches that shit except for spics and children
Conversely, you can't claim to remember anything besides the Broly movie because you don't even watch anime outside of Dragonball

>>283647285
I'm sorry this place doesn't have a downvote function, you'll get used to it.

>>283647349
What's a "downvote function"?
Did they have those on the site you just came from?

>>283644587
>>283644740
The thing about Demon Slayer is that it's largely style over substance, because the substance in the manga was pretty flat beyond basic emotional attachments for the characters. But Ufotable, despite going overboard with the effects, still know the principles of emphasis, key frames, and action. A good cut from Tanjiro is still gonna be a damn good cut. Meanwhile you look at JJK, MHA, most modern shonen adaptations of whatever and either everything is kind of missing the impact and weight, or a bunch of flashy shit happens and then someone hits the big flash punch. Several studios all fall into the same trap, I'd dare say that short of climactic super attacks even the Dragon Ball movies are sucking this down bad at points.

>>283647384
I didn't mean to hurt your feelings man, chill. But I'm glad you agree Danmachi simply looks better, someone needs to post the S1 Minotaur fight, still a classic.

>>283642393
Better than the new one punch man. That's for sure.

>>283646478
This is a great example of how you can use action to teach about a character. Miyako is swinging that thing around like a baseball bat, not a sword. Really great anticipation and follow through on the swings.

>>283639790
Don't make me clip the entire opening scene of F91 in its full glory. I've got to get to bed. Also don't make me clip the killer beyblades.

>>283646947
This is how you stretch a few well-animated shots into a fight using some easier/lower effort shots.

>>283647483
I think Danmachi is the most plebian garbage imaginable

>>283647555
The technical skill that went into this is insane for something that throws away everything good about it in favor of being harem slop

>>283647019
This is probably the best the current style of fight animation has ever looked. There's some actual choreography and animation principals in here.

>>283647691
>animation principals
pyw

>>283637545 (OP)
Over animation.

>>283642109
Gunkata sakuga is rare as fuck, but yes.

>>283648488
Theres some in kabaneri movie, especially the beggining

>>283647019
Thank fuck this doesn't have the spaz camera that keeps unnecessarily rotating.

>>283641012
You can cope with the samefagging but literally every single one of those looks worse than OPs webm.

>>283648526
Yeah. Homura vs Mami in Rebellion has a bit too.

>>283637545 (OP)
The majority ot the scenes should be even half as long as they're are is one issue. The other one is the complete disregard for the scale of the environment.

It's beautiful animation, mostly, but neither impressive anymore nor necessary.

>the character design looks cool therefore it has good animation
this is what happens when westerners try to claim anime as their own and use it to fill the void of 90s jewish disney. Anything with still frames/speed lines/screen swipes/camera pans/locked camera in general is bad, get over it

>>283641797
>but the choreography is terrible
How to spot a buzzword spouting moron that doesn't know what he's talking about.

MHA's anime looks great. It's one of the few good examples of dynamic camerawork in anime, and I'm tired of pretending it's not. Before someone posts the cubes webm, I agree that's pretty bad, but it's not because of the animation and camerawork. It's just a goofy scene that the animation is doing its best to save. The cubes do look dumb though, I agree.

One Piece is the best example of the 'modern anime camerawork' meme.The scenes like this are actually incomprehensible on first viewing, even if it's impressive on a technical level. The scene of Luffy weaving through the Gorosei is fucking cool though. I'll let them have that one.

Why the fuck is everyone running around all over the place nowadays?

You fags are all pretentious fucks

>>283649743
>Why the fuck is everyone running around
It's one of the faster ways to get to where you need to go.

>>283649848
Welcome to /a/

Goodness that is visual terrorism.Good fighting scenes peaked with the Digimon movie

>>283649848
"the animation is good because I feel like it" isn't a good argument, sorry

>>283650159
Neither is "it's bad because I feel like it" and yet this thread is literally nothing but that cause I sure as shit have not seen one single actual coherent argument.

>>283649743
>nowadays

>>283649674
>MHA's anime looks great
Because of an isolated sakuga clip? It's ugly as fuck, the backgrounds, character art, storyboards, everything. Its just another low effort "copypaste the manga" adaptation and the sakuga episodes aren't even on par with current One Piece or Naruto/Boruto back in the day.

>>283650170
thread has no problem pointing out bad animation with words eg. still shots but you seem to have a problem describing why animation is considered good

>>283650291
It's fluid, movement is intuitive and easy to follow, good use of colour and camera work. There that wasn't fucking hard.

>>283639790
Escaflowne is good.

>>283650306
same argument, but with "bad" animation

>>283643157
speedline backgrounds > 3dcg cityscape backgrounds.

>>283650339
So proving my point and "it's bad because I feel like it" is all you actually have. Thanks.

>>283650241
I think this looks pretty good -- great, even, if you compare it to something like this: >>283649674
The action and movements are distinguishable at least, and you can feel the impact.
My only wish is that the attack wasn’t called "Nuclear Impact" but "Galaxy Impact" -- it would’ve been cooler if it were more spacey, I guess. More purple instead of orange, with stars and planets in the background. Makes more sense for a big "fuck you" move than a simple nuke punch.

>>283650373
uh, no. Panning the camera left to right and then calling it "smooth animation" is a complete joke. Hence, your dumb argument being used against you

>>283650432
So you're making shit up instead. Damn this is high level retardation.

>>283650444
Your arguments are so vague and lack any form of solid stance that you can fit it to anything considered "bad" animation yet it's everyone else's fault?

>>283637545 (OP)
then stop watching shows writen by female for teenage girls

>>283650469
lmao what a fucking joke that's literally exactly what you're doing dumbfuck. The camera clearly and concisely follows the characters when in motion clearly showing their movements making what is happening clear and understandable and conveying what needs to be conveyed to the audience, bad camera work would be camera movements that doesn't organically follow the action and make things harder to understand what is happening like that one One Piece webm posted earlier. That is not vague in the slightest. The only vague shit here is your dumb fuck counter argument that is literally just "bad because i said so" now how about you form an actual fucking rebuttal this time or better yet, shut the actual fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself by showing you have zero clue what you're fucking talking about you absolute fucking loser.

>>283643584
>CG can make good looking dynamic backgrounds
It cannot.

>>283650513
It's bad because the thread gave examples of why it's bad. Quit getting angry because you're trying so hard to defend your favorite shonenshit and you're losing the argument.

You guys should learn to appreciate 2D background animation. It's a dying art due to the proliferation of CG backgrounds.

>>283650598
Lmao

>>283637545 (OP)
I think it looks good until it looks bad.

>>283647259
this movie is everything that is wrong with modern shonen, it's all spectacle with zero room for breathing.

>>283637545 (OP)
Post Deku fight with the blue Genie from Aladdin

>>283643562
Don't forget Grevious' scenes

>>283650907
Forgot link fuck
https://youtu.be/swH5xK6gH3g?si=abWnqkbSvnpUrEGi

Japs really over-emphasize the flash and spectable because they've never experienced nor witness a good fight in their life.

>>283637545 (OP)
I think this could've been improved a lot with just some storyboard changes and better animation timing.

>>283640876
Is this supposed to be impressive, I don't get it

I used to like Sakuga until it became normal practice to just have the characters spazz out instead of actually hit each other.

>>283651030
>is this supposed to be impressive
This entire thread is populated by people who have never animated so much as a run cycle criticizing the efforts of people with self-induced carpal tunnel. Yes, CCS's animation is impressive for its day, and even the obvious budgeting present in stuff like the resused frames or the speed lines doesn't detract much from it. CCS is CRISP where it needs to be, too.

>>283649507
Do you think the choreography is good then? What's good about it?

>>283651023
>timing
Should always be the first thing on your mind when animating something.
https://youtu.be/Yp1yHJTSXDA?si=vzIPZzoP8c3rWBoW
It’s why shit like this is so off putting, there’s no timing at all.

>>283650535
Kyoani mogs every other studio so unbelievably hard

>>283651091
I mean the fight looks like a joke, no point too much effort into if it ends up like that

Still the king

>>283651030
none of the animations in the thread are impressive. Thread is just western hipsters that parrot anime titles because they want to be different from their cartoon loving home community

>>283651192
Haven't seen this gem in a long time.

>>283637545 (OP)
twitter sakuga, they get a social media freelancer to make 15 seconds of some crackhead nonsense and then they give it backgrounds, music, and dialog completely after the fact with no planning in storyboards. So you basically get show-off reels by the freelancer trying to pack in every technique they've ever learned into that 15 seconds and really substandard direction beyond that.

>>283651253
The only studio that really does overstimulation in fight scenes well is Studio Trigger, and that's something they got directly from the Gainax talents who worked on Panty and Stocking

>>283651187
this is a great fight but the direction is very bizarre, there are almost no master shots in the whole thing where you can get some idea of where they are in the room, etc. and it loses continuity a few times. Everything is one closeup after another.

>>283651253
The scene posted by OP is actually made by Norimitsu Suzuki, a veteran Japanese animator. He's known for animating complex background animation and also does fluid character animation.

>>283642109
I'd sell my soul if it meant more anime about busty babes doing gunkata.

>>283650598
Now post the tractor.

>>283651316
It's pretty amazing how shitty it is in that case.

>>283649857
Small ass dagger parrying that big ass sword. I know suspension of disbelief...but come on

>>283647685

In fairness, they only really tried with this anime when it was being peak fantasy. For a decent chunk of time, the story was great on its own terms.

The moment it descended back into isekai haremshit is when it loses most of its quality anyway.

>>283650928
Don't jerk off gendy too much /co/ tard. That storyboarding is so bland.

>>283637545 (OP)
It's called cherrypicking

how did this kuso hentai have better animation than OP?

>>283637545 (OP)
It’s called having terrible direction

>>283651306
It's for the pantyshots.

I only like effects spam if its big beams

>>283650241
Dishonest vfx

>>283651326
Thank you for posting this gem.

>>283647407
I feel like I’m constantly losing my sense of orientation and position in the battlefield in most of the big budget battle shonens; it’s jarring and I don’t know what the intent is. But I never feel that way with Demon Slayer.

>>283650336
Wasn't haki supposed to be invisible?

>>283637545 (OP)
I love me some kinocubes

I hate the cubes and rotating camera nowadays. Also, anyone has the webm about the dog fighting a snake? That was very cool

is this good animation?

>>283637545 (OP)
That is truly gross. Then again I think its like the 90's repetitive movements and lasers

>>283649857
GIWTWM

>>283637545 (OP)
>>283659101
Now imagine the 100 people who created this and high fived.
>This is it. This is the one.

>>283639790
dumb zoomer

>>283637545 (OP)
This looks like shit

>>283649507
Retard

>>283659422
Only zoomers cream their pants over shit like Escaflowne and Fafner.

>>283644755
Spectacle is an important part of fights.

>>283645037
If something is shit, then it can't inspire people. Only the best of the best spawn copycats.

>>283651881
Made in Abyss is such a based series just like the author.

>>283641083
What is this from? Vampire Hunter D?

>>283637545 (OP)
>pointless and forgettable
describes all of shounen really

>>283660902
Stfu

>>283643503
That show came out this year, bro…

>>283648736
MAPPA used to be so good…

>>283650837
Nobody understands how bad this scene actually is. The animation is so over the top and unnecessary that it’s actually taking a very simple scene and making it completely incomprehensible.

>>283650837
I have always thought that audio can improve a scene and I'm curious about this one. How would I go about finding this scene on youtube? Needless to say I don't watch this garbage

>>283660119
You can make the fighters do cool and interesting things in a way that isn't spam light flashing or camera spazz outs though

>>283661511
The thing that gets me is they cut out right when Deku is about to rearrange the Genie's chest cavity with a well placed hook just to make all this abstraction bullshit. God could you imagine if it was just a well animated slow motion hook to the chest upper cut into a Rider Kick instead of Laser Pink Floyd

>>283637545 (OP)
It's crazy, that Dragon Ball was so much better at it 40 years ago. You could feel the power behind every punch.

>>283661705
https://youtu.be/M2pW-xCtIVs
I hope you enjoy it.

>>283652265
Fine I'll watch this show

>>283650241
Nobody died from this attack btw

Fifteen years from now people are going to be nostalgic for the Cube aesthetic. Screencap this.

>>283662140
Thank you for the link
>I hope you enjoy it.
I didn't

>>283661868
You also knew where the characters were at all times and could watch without getting motion sickness. Whoever decided moving the camera through space like a roller coaster was a good idea should be lynched.

>>283662344
In fifteen years the industry is going to be dominated by AI.

Watch Airmaster

The last anime so far with readable fights was Gamera Rebirth

>>283637545 (OP)
This look like an anime intro not a fight scene

>>283662293
kek you can't be serious

>>283650837
is the punches going around in a circle part of deku's attack or of the bad guy's ability trying to negate them?

Animators should ditch the fancy visual effects and focus on making the action as smooth and detailed as possible

>>283650241
Did people compare this to Hiroshima and Nagasaki when it aired?

>>283643892
cubes

>>283647663
art

>>283662822
Blame demon slayer.

>>283662822
sounds gay

>>283662960
Why don’t you show us a scene from Demon Slayer that’s guilty of this? YouTube + timestamp is fine.

>>283647259
I didn't get this part. They were punching each other through mountains like it's nothing but suddenly a little ice hurts goku?

>>283662822
Why do you think they use the fancy visual effects in the first place? They don't know how to so the "smooth and detailed" part

>>283663168
IT'S CALLED IN-BETWEEN FRAMES JFC

>>283663071
Db verse are glass canons

I care way more about directing and cinematography than I do about "sakuga".

The future is now, old man
https://youtu.be/IpPy3S37R6M

>>283637545 (OP)
Studio Pierrot were fucking galaxy brain getting the Kakashi vs. Obito guy to animate the last fight in Shippuden.

>>283664254
Check it out

>>283664278
Too bad it gets marred by the Megazord/Kaijuu shit, but that's on Kishi.

>>283664278
Haven't watched Naruto, is that supposed to be Sasuke chanting using his and Naruto's hand?

>>283664735
Yeah
It's bullshit, but it's got style so I like it anyways

>>283662712
It's inevitable, but we should hang everyone responsible

>>283664870
I was wondering why it seemed familiar then I remembered I saw something similar in a fake JJK leak lmao

>>283662960
Demon Slayer doesn't have those problems

>>283651326
I mean this doesn't really mean anything because most fight scenes "back then" were slideshows.

>>283663621
Correct

>>283664278
Still can't beat Gaara vs Rock Lee

"Sakuga" animation should be reserved for the BIG moments

>>283663621
Damn, boomers had it hard

>>283666256
Probably the best fight ever animated

>>283667581
It was barely animated

>>283660902
Shounen is not a genre or style

>>283667581
It's really good, but I don't see why it deserves the title of best

>>283637811
Lmao, as if this is any better

>>283667616
Yes, it is.
All the magazines are repeating the same song and dance with every new and old serialization.
Shounen all follow the exact same formula with minimal "flavor of the month" variations.

>>283647019
I don't remember Gon vs Hanzo going like this

>>283667732
That's not true at all. Stories of various different genres and themes are published in shounen magazines.

>>283667897
Maybe in the first two chapters. They all eventually converge into the "shounenshit" genre, sooner or later. Such is the sad fate of shounen manga in the current economy.

>>283668036
I don't remember Gintoki getting a poweup or Sket Dance become a battling manga

>>283647019
Okay, THIS is good because the camera isn't flying all over the place and I can tell what's happening

Behold
Kino
https://streamable.com/08u5x

>>283637545 (OP)
I want to be able to say wtf is going on.

>>283667732
Literally shonen means is "boy". If it's in a magazine aimed at boys, it's shonen.

The actual genres differ greatly.

>>283649674
what's even happening in this scene?

>>283651278
trigger's output doesn't look all that flashy these days. their animation is like oshii's patlabor when compared to solo levelling or csm movie.

>>283637545 (OP)
the problem is that you have zero understanding of where in space the camera is actually meant to be, so all this "scale" becomes lost

>>283671167
it's 3 panels they dragged out to 24 seconds

>>283651881
Nishagora vs Reg will look great

Personally I found that to me it's more about what's being shown than how it's being shown, if I'm not invested in the actual actions then why care about how well they're drawn

A flashy sequence in which you know exactly that no important story changes can happen doesn't get me invested, you know no one important is dying, or losing a limb, or anything actually exciting is happening, at best the villain might be delayed or defeated and that's it

But also the anime sense of aesthetics cratered over the last 15-20 years

>>283637795
>but the actual action choreography itself usually isn’t that interesting or engaging
You chose the worst possible example of that.

>>283671167
They're trying to stretch 2 panels

It's all about the soul

>>283668839
Holy shit, only camera is moving, characters are 2fps.

>>283651316
I'm in love with this scene

>>283646603
>Cool looking still frames, but still frames none the less
that's what still frames are for

It's in service of nothing. It's just flashing lights for retards. A short fight that means something to the story is a thousand times more memorable.
>>283641083
This looks so good and yet i dropped it in the middle.

>>283642109
>triggun for coomers

>>283643562
this series is the best star wars thing ever made.

>>283643892
what is this?

>>283642393
>>283643009
What the fuck are you smoking, this is dogshit. One of the core tenants of good choreography is subconsciously directing the eye towards one thing at a time. Even (hell especially) in fight scenes, there's action and there's reaction, with the action primarily taking your eye's attention.

This has no idea what to focus on, which leaves you constantly looking back and forth between the girl's privates being exposed, the weapons, and the guy. It's spastic flailing. If they wanted to have fanservice, it should've focused on that, but pick a fucking lane here.

>>283650535
>>283651141
Maydragon had this perfect little fight scene right on episode one or two

>>283650533
It absolutely can. Disney was abusing this shit to the fullest in the early 2000s. It's been 20 years since then and the tech is cheaper than ever.

what is it about old animation that is simply so much better?

>>283647483
>someone needs to post the S1 Minotaur fight
Couldn't fit it into one webm without trimming down the total length to be under the 120 second upload limit and reducing the resolution.

Animation peaked in 2009 and then it bombed so hard that it guaranteed nothing that good would ever be made again

Why does an autistic flash parody from the 00s made by one guy have better fight choreography than 90% of modern anime?

>>283673356
The blood spilling out after the first Firebolt and the wounded hand getting blown off after the second are neat little details that get lost in the bitrate, so here's that part in higher fidelity.

>>283671480
This would be funnier if someone drew an actual race track with a finish line with the racers going every which way but a straight line.

>>283673356
my only complain about this sequence is that they didn't make a visual reference to cretan bull leaping and had him duck under the horn attack instead of vaulting over it.