Thread 33797544

Do women actually view men who are nice and romantic as weak? I understand that they hate guys that expect "rewards" for being nice but all I know is to be nice because my parents instilled "treat others how you want to be treated" into me. I don't expect any "rewards" unless respect counts as that. Do they view nice men as lesser males to the "bad boys", or is it a meme?

>Do women actually view men who are nice and romantic as weak?
F
No. Quit baiting now

>>33797544 (OP)
Depends on the type of woman. Also romance is complicated, the best abusers/bad boys are romantic at first lovebombing is very much a useful tactic for moids.

f, no, but romantic men are often abusive, so i am very wary of them

Despite what /r9k/ incels may have told you, the vast majority of women don't want an abusive asshole.

>>33797544 (OP)
They see unmasculine men as weak

>>33797544 (OP)
>Do women actually view men who are nice and romantic as weak?
No. They only view romantic and nice men as weak if they are ONLY nice and romantic. A well rounded partner and human being is going to be able to be proficient in several areas of interpersonal bond building, not just one. This is true of most positive personality traits people associate with good relationships. Nobody wants to be with someone who only has one side to them. Its unsustainable.

>>33797544 (OP)
>Do women actually view men who are nice and romantic as weak?
Only if they actually are weak. Are you?

They view desperate men as weak.

>>33797572
>all known statistics point out that women start having sex earlier and way more frequently than men
>nooo that’s just dirty incel lies

Lol get fucked roastie

>>33797621
How does women having sex earlier mean most women don't like being abused? I'm confused how you've connected those two completely unrelated thoughts.

>>33797621

Wrong, retard. All statistics point to the average man having far more sexual partners than the average woman. Just because YOU have had no sexual partners (and never will) doesn't mean that most men haven't.

>>33797552
I'm not baiting, I'm a virgin with no experience, I hear that women cheat on men that treat them nicely.

>>33797576
I'm not a tough guy, I never been in a fight. so I'm fucked then right?

>>33797653
Statistically yes, reason being is that they're seen as more forgiving.

>>33797653
>I hear that women cheat on men that treat them nicely.
Extremely untrue. The internet is very misleading on this topic, anon. This place is populated with virgins like you with no experience so you're not going to get any meaningful insight from people in your exact same position.

>>33797544 (OP)
Sometimes “nice” gets confused with being spineless, weak when holding boundaries, a people pleaser or a doormat. That’s not nice, that’s just being easily bent by the will of others. Chivalry, kindness and respect are different. We want someone who is actively in control of their life and will go out and slay a dragon for us and bring us our favorite flowers after.

>>33797653
please don't listen to the internet. go discover life for yourself.

>>33797653
my actual advice to you is to go talk to women and see how they react to what you do. in my personal experience women usually like being treated badly and dislike it when i am romantic with them, but that's just my personal experience and maybe other people have different experiences.

>>33797653
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkCMXWHqWhw&t=60s

don't be too nice, too available, desperate to satisfy every whim

>>33797794
I'm not a badass though, so I guess game over then.

>>33798112
Its an analogy retard. But like get off your ass, have a job and take care of yourself. Be respectable and have your shit together. Assume responsibility for your life without blaming your parents, society, etc.. Today that seems like a superhuman feat for a lot of people in general.

>>33797544 (OP)
Pro tip: making "nice" your only real trait and the entire basis of your personality is just covering up the fact that you're boring.

Using incel logic, if you're nice and a virgin ergo we MUST deduce that the guys who are having sex are le bad boys and not very nice at all.

Plus "nice guys" are rarely ever genuinely nice despite claiming it as their only definable trait. They often get crazy jealous and crazy emotional at the drop of a hat.

>>33798171
so, I don't have to be an "alpha" right?

>>33798248
It's not my whole personality, I count on dark humor for that, but being nice Is a huge chunk of me.

>>33798265
>It's not my whole personality
It may as well be if you're gonna play the whole "there are only two types of guys in the world, nice guys and bad boys" song

what about normal people? What if instead of being nice you were fun, or interesting?

>>33797544 (OP)
As usual if you want a good take on this then look up “Radicalising the Romanceless” on Google. The article is over a decade old but the points still apply. TL;DR
>being a nice, considerate guy isn’t unattractive in and of itself but is often correlated with unattractive traits like lack of assertiveness
>being an asshole isn’t attractive in and of itself but is often correlated with attractive traits like boldness

>>33797544 (OP)
>Do women actually view men who are nice and romantic as weak?
Depends on your definition of "nice". Is it:
>Pretends to be nice, expecting her to return the favor by being his girlfriend and (or) bending over backwards to try to fulfill her every whim?
Or is it
>Is polite and kind, but makes intentions clear, has his own opinions regardless of what the woman thinks and has the ability to tell her no
If it's the first one then fuck yes, it's weak. If it's the second one then no. That's masculine.
>All I know is to be nice because my parents instilled "treat others how you want to be treated" into me.
There's a gigantic difference in being kind/polite and a pussy pushover.
>Do they view nice men as lesser males to the "bad boys", or is it a meme?
It's mostly that so called "nice guys" are usually characterized by being complete pushovers, who jump at the opportunity to serve and agree with everything the bitch comes up with, even if they disagree with it, all in the effort to get pussy (simp). They view it as weak because in their minds they're like:
>Little old me is making this man dance around? I...literally didn't even do anything. I don't even deserve that for how little effort I've put in. If *I* can get him to do this, there's no way he can stand up for me and protect me
Note, they may not consciously think this but they definitely feel it.
>The vibe was wrong
Whereas "bad boys" don't do any of that shit. They say what they mean. They don't pretend. They're comfortable being themselves regardless of what she thinks. And yeah, she may know deep down that he's not relationship material. But he turns her on, so she takes his dick anyway.

Now pair the ambivalence of a "bad boy" with the politeness and care of a "good guy" and you're basically the prince charming every chick wants. But it's rare that a guy can pull both of those off.

>>33798886
It sounds like they want a alpha type/knight in shining armor type. That's not me. I love gaming and nerd shit. It's probably too late.

>>33799068
>They want an alpha type
Alpha is a mindest, dude. Alpha is that bad boy shit I mentioned like being your own man, not swaying when she nags, being able to tell her no, having your own opinions, not bending over backwards to serve her every whim, playing into the "happy wife happy life" bullshit. *Any* man can do that. For example, say you've got a "chad" based on looks, but he has zero confidence, stammers over his words, pretends to like everything she does hoping to get her to like him, etc. Do you really think a woman would still be attracted to that? Hint: the answer is no. Meanwhile, you see women completely satisfied with fat men. Skinny men. Nerdy men. Ugly men. Etc. Why? They have something more than just looks. It's their mindset. They make her feel safe. Again, any man can learn that. Because alpha is just a mindset and has nothing to do with looks.

>>33799111
>they make her feel safe
So I gotta learn how to fight?

>>33799068
You can like gaming/nerd shit and not be a total pushover. They are not mutually exclusive. Something something false dichotomy.

>>33799142
Bro. If *that* is what you took from what I just said...you're lost. Just give up, lol. I'll be damned if I go deeper and try to help someone who ignores 90% of what I wrote lmao

What if I told you that you can be dominant and chivalrous at the same time. And that should be considered normal masculine behavior.

>>33799165
It *should* be normal. But most men have been pusified into thinking it's "toxic masculinity" meanwhile men who just do it and don't care basically drown in female attention. Funny how that works

>>33799154
Maybe I misunderstood I read "make her feel safe" and I instantly thought that I gotta be a fighter/badass and I have 0 fighting experience.
>>33799165
>>33799172
I always viewed "dominance" as insecure/corny especially now when nerdy things like anime and star wars is being accepted, At least I think so.

>>33797544 (OP)
Spineless vs not spineless
Learn it
You can be nice and spineful
You can be bad and spineless

It doesn't work BC you still view everything in the lens of "does she like me"? Like everything revolves around the worthless opinions of blind deaf mentally handicapped pigs

>>33797544 (OP)
The best men all have had great fathers or someone in that role.. because we love them and their style, we try to live in that way, and I've not seen many of these men NOT have a decent relationship. I would tell you to stop this mindset of weak or power struggle, instead understand it as fairness. Have a respectable standard that isn't unrealistic, and look for companionship with this in mind.

>>33799703
What do you mean by "fairness"?

>>33799652
Making her feel safe is done by being sure of yourself. Being consistent and doing what you say. She can trust that you'll be able to figure something out and handle things. That's not always a physical thing but that side definitely helps. Even if you aren't strong, knowing how to diffuse a situation and prevent fighting in the first place makes her feel safe too.
>Viewed dominance as insecure/corny
It can be when you're overcompensating. But one definitely should dominate their life. Dominate themselves. I.e. control yourself.
>I have work to do. I'm not gonna take my dick out and fap. I have to build
or
>This is what I have to do and I'm sticking to it. Shit has to be done.
That kind of dominance gets expressed in other areas of your life. You're not pushed around. You're naturally a leader. People are willing to follow. That's strength because it isn't forced upon people. People naturally just gravitate towards it. And women like that.

>>33800137
It just bothers me that insecurity and self doubt are red flags to women when it's natural to be insecure (not in a try hard way) and to have self doubt.

>>33798821
Thank you for the excellent read. Too bad articles like this aren’t easier to find.

I grew up with an attractive sister, so I had a front-row seat to a lot of things.

No, incels just need to stop love bombing women and being needy when they talk. Instead, they should focus on being authentic and having a life outside of the girl.

I remember my sister being 20 a few years ago, and your typical “nice guy” had no real hobbies, was a homebody, wore dorky clothes, texted long paragraphs, and went out of his way to please my sister even when it was to his own detriment.

She would be polite but had no interest in dating these men. Meanwhile, she would opt to go out with some guy working on an college film.

>>33801805
That's not exactly correct. Insecurity and self-doubt are not in and of themselves red flags - inability to self-regulate those emotions are red flags. For example, its not a red flag to get frustrated at a video game. Its a red flag to get frustrated and have so little emotional regulation that you punch holes in the wall. Its not the emotions you have that give people pause but how you deal with those emotions.

>>33801805
>It just bothers me that insecurity and self doubt are red flags.
The feelings themselves, as another anon explained >>33802209, are not red flags. But to the extent that they stop you from doing what needs to be done...that *is* a red flag.
>I'm unsure about this but I have to do it anyway
vs
>I'm unsure about this and i'm going to waste time hemming and hawwing back and forth instead of taking action
Those are two very different things.
Now self doubt...that's a different can of worms. Acknowledging your limits but willing to train/learn/move forward is one thing. Getting in your head, negative talk, and lack of action due to those thoughts is another and absolutely *is* a red flag.

Take it to biology. What the fuck is she gonna do with a man who can't take action? Who can't make shit happen? Who sits around worrying about shit? She's depending on YOU for to do those things. So, yes, those absolutely should be red flags if you're letting them affect your actions. If those thoughts make you hesitate too long. A woman will take a confident man who makes mistakes over a dude who's always right but is pussy footing around the whole time. Make sense?

>>33802791
It's fucked up to me that because I have fear and anxiety and I'm all in my head, that it's a red flag, thus putting me into more of a spiral because my relationship might be in jeopardy on top of mental health struggles.

>>33797890
>dislike it when i am romantic with them

Because your type of faggot always mistakes unleashing your unfettered neediness on a woman with "being nice" or "being romantic".
Being nice and being romantic has nothign to do with the kind of simping you practice, get it into your head.
Its fine wanting women, desperately needing women either puts them off or attracts the abusive ones.

>>33797544 (OP)
Yes. All the women telling you that your definition of nice means actually pretending and being manipulative and desperate because you are an incel are making shit up. I know that you are a genuinely nice person. They don't want to admit that some people are unattractive because they are genuinely nice and educated. Just treat them worse and you'll see how much better they react.

>>33802997
You shouldn't be getting into a relationship without first resolving your own issues. You've got to be confident and happy within your own skin first. Seeking your partner to fix those issues for your will just end in heartbreak. It's not their job. Its yours.

>>33797645
>average man having far more sexual partners than the average woman
That... doesn't seem to make sense.

Until we consider GAY guys, those tend to be most promiscuous demographic.

>>33803447
Bullshit. It's not that being nice in and of itself is bad. It just usually comes with unattractive shit like people pleasing and no assertiveness. Being meaner isn't what turns them on. But it usually comes with attractive traits like confidence and boldness.

You can be a kind person who's confident and assertive. The only women who legitimately would take a mean but confident and masculine man over a kind but confident and masculine man are broken in the first place and irrelevant.

>>33804876
What I'm trying to say is, if I tell her I'm going to therapy to resolve my issues, then she'll view me as weak and unconfident, and then she finds someone else? How is that not fucked up?

>>33797544 (OP)
yes, but you kind of have to proof your "manliness" or "toughness" first before being more romantic. this makes women feel special and like only they know that side of you. they don't want a romantic man, they want a stoic man who is romantic towards them specifically.

>>33805802
Why disclose that at all?

>>33805822
You're telling me just to hide my troubles and not bring them up at all? (not rhetorical, actual question)

>>33805912
Nta. Do bring up issues you have in your relationship, but be careful about it as well. A lot of men get addicted to venting to their gf's instead of sometimes trying self-reflection, or preferably venting to friends. When you get addicted to venting to your partner, which means essentially whining all day (and both genders can end up doing this) you will make your partner resent you for ruining every moment/day.

>>33805922
I'm talking about inner problems.

>>33797544 (OP)
>Do women actually view men who are nice and romantic as weak?
Vile snake women will misperceive gentleness as weakness, just like vile snake men will misperceive gentleness with vulnerability.
Solution: if you are a good and gentle person, find a good and gentle partner.

>>33804878
>That... doesn't seem to make sense.

Its makes perfect sense. With male-female dynamics, the average woman would have hundreds of partners if women just went out to get laid with anyone who looks half decent.
The whoel thing only works because women are wired not to do that and to instead find "their guy", then hyperfixate on him.
They'll be effectively monogamous even in an FWB situation, because fucking a new guy always entails a risk of him totally sucking so they stay with the tried and true dick.
In general women just aren't risk takers ,and a new guy always represents risk.

>>33797544 (OP)
They expect confidence, or what they think is confidence.
So if you're accustomed to apologizing for mild things or trying to avoid mildly inconveniencing women with a reasonable approach (like the guys who preemptively give her an excuse to say no, e.g. "I understand if you're busy, no biggie", because they don't want to make her uncomfortable), some could interpret it as lack of confidence.

It's not niceness per se, but a guy who tries to do right without being mindful of the above can definitely come away with that impression. Doubly so when people assume the worst of him if he wonders what's happening when he gets rejected, like with the "nice guy" meme.

Absolutely not! After we’ve experienced a “bad boy” we will never go back. There’s nothing attractive about an inconsiderate and unreliable ass. Men who are kind, respectful, fun, and attentive are who we want to build relationships with. That’s not weak! The only thing I’d caution against is overdoing “nice”. That sounds weird but I broke up with a boyfriend that was amazing but was way too in love with me. In a way that it was smothering. He stopped seeing his friends, would do anything I said even though I didn’t ask, he became obsessed with my favorite shows. I couldn’t breathe. It was like he was trying to merge us into one singular being. I felt terrible ending it but it wasn’t healthy and it was such a turn off that he wasn’t his own. Person anymore.

>>33807388
Thanks, I needed this post.

>>33806379
>Inner problems
These are not to discuss with your woman. That is for your male friends. Your mother. Your father. Siblings. NOT your wife. Women reflect and amplify your emotions. If you're calm, they'll be calm, maybe *slightly* anxious, but looking to you for strength. If you're worried, they'll be 10x as worried. Likewise, burdening her with your inner problems is just going to amplify her anxiety about the shit. She cant solve them for you, can she? No. She can't really help, because she's gonna be more worried than YOU about it.
>What if he never gets better?
>Is he actually crazy?
>Will he hurt me?
You're basically telling her to be on edge, worried, and thus more closed off from you by doing that. Women constantly ask for men to open up and show emotions, but are almost always uninterested at best or turned off at worst when you actually do it. It's out of their control; its biological programming. Like, even venting to a female friend. A lot of times they'll just respond with how *they* felt about what you just told them vs something that will help, but that can vary depending on the girl.

Vent to male friends, and your family. DO NOT do it to your girl. She can't help you in the first place and she's just gonna get worried anyway.

>What I'm trying to say is, if I tell her I'm going to therapy to resolve my issues, then she'll view me as weak and unconfident, and then she finds someone else? How is that not fucked up?
With all my advice being said: why would you go out of your way to make yourself look bad? Are you handling your shit, getting positive movement in those efforts and confident? Telling her does nothing because she'd be worrying for nothing. If you don't have that shit under control, she'd probably already be able to tell (if it's based on lack of confidence, assertiveness, etc) and *still* wouldn't really need to know because you're already not presenting yourself well.

>>33797544 (OP)
i'm a virgin and refuse to lose my virginity so i cant speak for anyone youve had sex with, but the reason why im a volcel is simple.
moids are motivated by horniness, hunger, and hatred of women.

if a moid is "nice" or "respectful" to a woman, he is being fake. the dishonesty is probably what i hate second most about moids (after the sadistic violence)

>>33797572
moids claim that women want abusive assholes in order to justify being abusive assholes
>>33797621
"women have sex more frequently than men" sorry about all those lesbians?
women only have sex younger because boys CANT get laid lmfaoooo.
>>33797653
im a virgin too. you moids admit that ou are all disloyal
>>33797663
the reason why i refuse to lose my virginity is because moids are violent lmfao

>>33807868
You're so much of a pussy that I ironically don't think it's possible for your to be a woman. You're larping way too hard. There's no way even a woman could be *this* dumb. You are, in no way, a volcel. Your mindset precludes you from getting within a mile of dick even if you legitimately wanted it. By your logic you should've already been raped thrice within the past week, lol.

>>33797572
The reason incels think women want to be with abusive guys is because they regularly date abusive guys. Thats it. Its not a porn fantasy. I lived next to several couples who would have shouting matches over stupid bullshit and eventually the woman would get hit and guess what she did? She gave him several kids and made him dinner. Every time. If women didnt reward that behavior people wouldnt think thats what they liked. If they didnt write a ton of smut on abusive rapey dudes incels wouldnt think they like that.

Like in my life i have only had the maybe chance to date two women. Both were taken, both i basically had to groom to break up with the guy they were with, both of them eventually suggested an open relationship, very quickly too, almost cheating immediately. Would an abusive guy have to deal with that? Would my neighbor kicking his wifes head into the wall ever hear "hey can we open up the relationship"? no. Because forcing monogamy on women is similar to training a dog or any animal, you have to use force and fear to do it or they are going to fuck a bunch of random guys(not hundreds but dozens) and then crash and burn any chance of a relationship. Its natural, but horrible for society.

>>33808624
Sadly you are right. I'm not an incel however and women have always come to me though only one have I smacked, my first gf in high school. I believe they are attracted to be because I give off that untamed vibe. I believe I learned that from my father that beat my mother for 20 years until he died hitting a concrete culvert drunk driving. So this is how it goes. Mom was pretty and popular and dad poor, stupid but hot. My mother felt sorry for him but physically attracted so she tutored him in several subjects and he attaches quick, love bombs and possessive. She loses virginity quickly and marries early. Dad is not prepared for anything yet mom keeps trying to make him better and he fucking snaps and beats her up. Bunch of I'm sorrys and I love you's and never happen agains but it was always my mother that cleaned up the mess. Couple months later same shit. She goes from independent to codependent in a heartbeat. Too ashamed to admit her choice was wrong so she hides everything.

>>33797544 (OP)
>Do women actually view men who are nice and romantic as weak?
Generally speaking women like bad boys being being a bad boy implies they are tough and can handle the problems being a bad boy generates. Women dislike nice guys because it implied they have nothing to court women with besides politeness. This doesn't mean being nice to women is pussy repellent nor being a bad boy is a 100% hit rate. Anything else is a meme or incel coping.

>>33797544 (OP)
In my experience they only go after degenerate and toxic guys with no future. They love chaos and everything that is destructive to their life. I know this is not the case with every woman, but too many of them are shallow sperm buckets with zero values and self respect. Western women are astronomically cooked beyond repair.