Thread 5063773

Does anyone here own a hedgehog tenrec(s)?
How intelligent are they if so?

I've read from a few publications that the brains of tenrecs most closely resemble the brains of Mesozoic mammals, and that they also have cloacas despite being placentals. I was wondering if tenrec intelligence could be indicative of Mesozoic mammal intelligence, and if so how intelligent (or unintelligent) they are from the experience of those who handle(d) them.
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(06)02290-1.pdf (pp. R911-R912)
https://www.faunabio.com/resources/tenrecs---a-glimpse-into-our-ancient-mammal-past

As someone who's only seen videos of them, it does seem like there's a lot less going on behind their eyes than other small mammals, but that's just me. I'd be interested to hear from those who have actually known them.

Also, what are the chances of keratin spines having evolved on mammals during the Mesozoic? What would their chances of fossilization be if they existed? I wonder due to them having evolved separately on both tenrecs (who themselves appear more primitive) and hedgehogs.

>>5063773 (OP)
I live in the marsupial country "Australia" and Marsupials are extremely stupid in general.
You are definitely onto something.
Synapsids were definitely extremely stupid in comparison to modern mammals.
>Also, what are the chances of keratin spines having evolved on mammals during the Mesozoic?

That's an easy question to answer -

"The mammal in question is a new species, named Spinolestes xenarthosus. Like many mammals in the Mesozoic, it was a small creature weighing only around two to three ounces, growing up to around nine inches in length. It’s assumed that it would have been mostly nocturnal, as mammals generally needed to stay out of the way of the larger dinosaurs who dominated the ecosystem. S. xenarthosus‘ feet indicated that it was a burrower more than a climber, and its reinforced spine probably helped it pry and shred rotting plants to find insects to eat, like a modern armadillo or shrew. Rounding out its outward appearance were some well preserved hairs, some growing into thicker spines like a hedgehog. These delicate structures also showed signs of a fungal infection, rotting some hairs away in a discolored patch of skin."
https://2newthings.com/fossilized-fur-spines-and-organs-found-in-cretaceous-mammal/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinolestes

>>5065213
I think brain structure would matter more than infraclass; marsupials and placentals shared their last common ancestor in the Mid-Jurassic, but marsupials didn't stop evolving then and there are intelligent marsupials like the American opossum. The marsupials that tend to be dumb typically reflect it in their brain structure, like Koalas.

Have to wonder if probainognathian eucynodonts had almost lizard-like vacancy in their thoughts, though.

>Spinolestes
Neat.

>>5065241
>American Opossum
>intelligent.
>??

>>5065246
Comparatively. They lack a high enough metabolism to be truly bright, but their problem solving is firmly in the good category.

>>5065241
> intelligent marsupials like the American opossum
hahahaha

>>5065279
they can knock a lid off a garbage can by accident. cats can open doorknobs, rats can drive cars, and dogs and horses can open multi-part latches.

>>5065246
>>5065290
https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/species/didelphis-virginianus
>Results from some learning and discrimination tests rank opossums above dogs and more or less on a par with pigs in intelligence.
Admittedly it doesn't cite such tests.

I did find 'An Experimental Analysis of Learning in the Opossum' by William T. James from The Journal of General Psychology, Volume 111 (1984), pp. 131-152,
https://primarilypossums.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/WTJamesarticle.pdf
This article seems to indicate opossum (can) outperform animals such as dogs and cats in regard to food memorization.
However that article is cited in 'Food-rewarded operant learning in the opossum' by Angermeier et. al.,
https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/BF03330066
This study in turn determines there's no significant difference between opossum and other mammals in food memorization, though that would indicate they aren't necessarily unintelligent.

>>5065516
Food memorization is insect brain tier "cognition" and a poor measure of intelligence

Somehow it’s even worse than the obedience=intelligence claim

>>5065241
Kangaroos have a lot more folds in their brains

>>5063773 (OP)
Those things are basically lizards but somehow worse.

Cute as hell, though.

>>5068342
Dumber than lizards? How?

>>5063773 (OP)
Tenrecs aren't true hedgehogs.
They're not even a related species.
The spines are an example of convergent evolution.

>>5065516
Yeah, I went down the rabbit-hole of claims that chickens were smart and it turned out to just be a load of shit.
i'm not going to waste my time with this.
>>5068676
how? what? why?
Stop posting on 4ch you stupid child.

>>5069750
>muh all animals are dumb
Found badgerfag. He just can't stop shitting on animals and people. It's almost like he's a fat, badger raping loser with no life still living in mommy's crack den trailer.

>>5069739
"Hedgehog tenrec" is the common name for the species Echinops telfairi.
It's like how "fisher cats" (Pekania pennanti) aren't feliforms.