Does FIRE work?

anyone not in the top 5% of income earners is not going to retire before 40 unless they gigacope with a huge lifestyle downgrade like moving to the phillipines

Not really. I mean its better than working but there are some downsides.
1. No one does fucking ANYTHING for most of the day so good luck interacting with people during work hours which includes commute pre time and unwinding time. Which is a long ass time. You don't realize how much time it is until you have to wait for people to stop doing it.
2. If you have solo hobbies then sure you have tons of time but if you're not skilled at them its not the same sense of accomplishment as working since you're not getting paid.
3. No income means you have to make sacrifices. I know you could theoretically have enough to pay for what you need but since you always have the option of doing something with your time you can't help but wonder if you should ever work a little more to upgrade your lifestyle.
4. A lot of stuff just revolves around having a job. Like credit often requires income even when you have a ton in savings. A lot of places ask for your job, and I don't mean like a survey I mean like getting a visa.
4. Managing money isn't free lunch. You can't just hold cash so you still have to do investment research.

>>60544208 (OP)
Join the military and say you got PTSD and you'll get 1700 tax free the rest of your life

>>60544253
urg this formatting looks so horrible without the 5.
why can't they just add an edit button for a few minutes so long as no one replied

>>60544208 (OP)
isn't it just being frugal and investing wisely? LMAO of course you will retire EARLIER than if you were just spending it.
so instead of 55+ you retire at 45+. it's just a fake goal for normalfags who want to travel with their wife or some shit.

the average person who browses 4chan should not romanticize retirement. wtf are you going to do? play video games and watch anime all day but now you're 50? who fucking cares

>>60544229
What if I’m not a salary-let?

>>60544208 (OP)
>Does FIRE work?
Not the r*ddit kind of FIRE which tells you to only invest in index funds and get a mortgage. Now, if instead of DCAing into VTI for boomer gains you do it into BTC/ETH and gold to build a core and inflation resistant portfolio from which you can rebalance periodically into lower or medium risk assets like stocks and real estate or even CDs, then it can work. But being the soicucks they are, r*dditfags who "FIREd" in the last 5 years or so definitely have been fucked by inflation and when you're out of the job market for too long then it becomes exponentially harder to get back in. Especially leanFIRE people must have been especially fucked by inflation considering costs have gone up everywhere in the US by a lot since the 2010s. The only way to both FIRE and be a poorfag is to move to a shithole country with your paltry $200k+ where you are susceptible to be murdered by brownoids. Socalled fatFIRE and even regular FIRE in increasingly only feasible for techfags (declining job market not withstanding), doctors and top lawyers, or business owners. Your average retard has no chance unless they are use crypto like I explained above.

>>60544309
I’m a techfag. The market is only shit for new grads. I have a friend who tried to leave intel a couple months ago as a junior SWE. He hasn’t gotten any offers yet. Meanwhile my other friend has left google then Amazon then startup then another and back because he’s a senior and can interview well. I’m in the latter boat.

>>60544319
Good work. Then it's as I said, follow the principles because they're immutable
>maximize income
>minimize expenses
within whatever parameters you're comfortable with, and don't fall for r*ddit tier investment advice and it will work. We're a priviledged class in current year + 10 and by 2030 the majority of normalfags will unironically be eating bugs while we cling to the upper middle class life that was taken from them a long time ago.

>>60544309
>ETH

Last 7 months have proven it's a dying shitcoin.

>>60544271
Typically I see this refer to 30 which while not ideal like being rich in your 20s at least you're still considered young in your 30s.

It's a cringe individualistic mindset

If you have literally any family you should grind until death. Imagine being able to leave your family 100m and free them forever but instead you quit 30 years early and became a hedonist

>>60544351
I knew some retard would post this. By 2030 you will rope, dirty normalfaggot maxi.

>>60544503
Not a maxi, ETH is still absolute shite though. It couldn't even break ATH in 4 years.

>>60544229
Retired at 30. No one is retiring before 40. lol.

>>60544487
>it’s cringe and individualist to want to work hard during your 20s and 30s so you can spend your 40s and 50s backpacking across Europe
>it is based and collectivist to work your finger to the bone until you drop dead so your kids can inherit 10M and with it an overinflated sense of self-worth and entitlement
I used to date an English PhD student at Harvard. She took me out drinking with her cohort one time, and after a couple hours talking with a few of them, it became clear that these people are completely reliant on their parents well into their 30s. One guy started arguing with his dad about whether he’d loan him 40k to get a new car. Another told me about how she was already planning a two-month vacation in Iceland once her grandma died and left her a multi-million inheritance. I don’t intend to work hard just so my kids or grand kids can be spoiled retards like them, but you can feel free.

>>60544253
> No income means you have to make sacrifices
What do you mean no income?
> Managing money isn't free lunch.
Get a wealth management team.

>>60544487
Shut up. Stop with the muh family cope or the move to the 3rd world cope. Youre not noble.

>>60544524
>There is a chance my kids a retard therefore fuckthem they can be slaves

Cringe
>>60544527
You will never be a patriarch

>>60544540
Enjoy arguing with your unemployed ivy-educated 35 year old son about whether you’re gonna buy him a house so he can write poetry in the moleskins he buys with the allowance you give him.

>>60544540
Your family is nothing dude. Throwing the “muh children” thing is pathetic and only works if youre conversing among the poors. It is like how the poors say “hey at least I got my family.”
I am just giving you a perspective of what someone in a top bracket sees. It is pathetic. Dont take it personally.

>>60544524
Whatever, youre poor and working class, got it. Youre jealous. Wait till you find out rich kids have parents buy for their tuition, first cars and homes too.

>>60544602
>>60544524
> ***pay for their tuition, first cars and homes too.**typo
Also, you have poor person mindset, thats all.

>>60544522
Imagine shitting up 2 threads with the same larp

KILL YOURSELF

>>60544616
?

>>60544229
>only the top 5% can retire before 40
even top 25% is good enough in the USA. 25th percentile is ~$100k per year.

If someone earning $100k per year lives like they're earning $30k per year and maintains discipline throughout their twenties and thirties, then they can retire by their mid-thirties.

even easier if you're married and you have double the income / half the expenses.

>>60544623
But where do you live and what income level is your area? The reality is only someone with a top 5% income will ever retire before 40s and then have a high standard of living. Earning 100k income is not even enough to live in my city.
>dual income
Grim. bro. Good luck having a wife/gf that respects you when you are both sharing the responsibilities or when you co-own the house and car with her.

>>60544623
Also, it is mainly cities or big cities that have higher salaries which comes with hcol.

>>60544646
>>60544664
you're being a doomer and not thinking creatively.

if you live with two roommates in a three bedroom apartment, then you can live in *any* city in the USA, even the most expensive ones, for less than $1,000 per month.

if you buy an instant pot, beans, rice, meat, and vegetables, you can feed yourself for less than $5 per day.

if you put in the time to look, you can find a well-maintained, reliable used car for less than $10k.

quit being a doomer and try to refocus your energy on seeing the obvious solutions. FIRE is really not that hard, nor is it inaccessible to average people.

>>60544693
Living with roomates…
making 100k a year in a big city.
And already thinking about quitting at 40. It really was over before it began for most then. Thanks for confirming.

Your way of thinking and your perspective is why most people will never make it. And less than 1000 a month rent is pretty bad also. Imagine living in squalor and thinking about retiring.

>>60544693
Look, I just have a good perspective on things. I am retired at 32. Hcol and sol. Anything less than this is ghetto. Trust me. A 100k income and you are living in the ghetto in a big city.

You guys who are saying you can't do it because muh hcol or something are missing the point

Early retirement has almost nothing to do with actual earnings above a certain minimal level, and everything to do with your savings rate as a percentage of your income.

Anyone with a 50% savings rate or higher will amass enough capital (as long as they can get a 5% annual roi above inflation) to retire on that lifestyle in 17 years, end of.

And sure, if you want to live lavishly in retirement then that simply means you either increase your savings rate, increase your income (and thereby maintain the same savings rate with a lower percentage of your income) or add more years to work until retirement.

If your income is $100k, either single or as a couple, you CAN live on $50k - because some people only even make $50k a year
Just because you want to inflate your lifestyle so that you have to work for 40+ years doesn't mean that isn't ultimately a choice

https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement?income=50000&initialBalance=0&expenses=17000&annualPct=5&withdrawalRate=4

>>60544716
>>60544726
so what exactly is the point you're trying to make? That people in the top 25% who FIRE in their 30s did it illegitimately if they lived with roommates? And therefore only people in the top 5%, who can afford a loft condo in a downtown skyscraper, are allowed to FIRE before 40... because according to you that's the only legitimate way to FIRE?

>>60544739
If your income is 100k, you cannot live comfortably. Are you even going to own a new car or house? And condo fees keep going up to, which affects rents.

>>60544752
Not with that attitude. Like I dont get it, why are they thinking about retiring if they cannot even afford a good quality of life? Thats just lazy.

>>60544762
>>60544768
lol, faaaaag

>>60544768
Man I left for a couple hours to work out and grab dinner with friends. I come back to you having made 2/3rds of the posts since I left. Just wanted to let you know that I’m not reading anything you wrote.

>>60544525
>What do you mean no income?
No earned income.
>Get a wealth management team.
It's a huge waste of money if you know even a little bit about investing, which most people on /biz/ could figure out pretty easily

FIRE makes some pretty big assumptions that just aren't available to the average person:

>graduate school into a top 25% or better salary which is rare-college grads have a higher unemployment rate than non college grads right now
>have no major life events like cancer/car accidents that put you out of work and stack medical bills
>be willing to live like a pauper
>market performs the way you want
>housing costs where you get that job allows you to save money

I view it as another boomerism where they project the economy that boomers had into modern times and it just does not add up.

>>60545075
> >Get a wealth management team.
> a huge waste of money if you know even a little bit about investing, which most people on /biz/ could figure out pretty easily
I honestly don’t believe that. Most people doing it themselves would become greedy and over trade or be over allocated and get wiped out. I know many rich people who dont give a fuck when markets drop or recession or whatever.
If you manage your own money, youre going to chase massive returns and get wiped out during pullbacks or bear markets. The rich people i know are non chalant while /biz/ panics during bear markets.

>>60544208 (OP)
You either need to make mid 6 figures at least, or you need to buy options and get lucky.

Smart use of leverage can get you there too, but its easier said than done

>>60545075
No earned income? What about income from investments or whatever?
>>60545075
> It's a huge waste of money if you know even a little bit about investing, which most people on /biz/ could figure out pretty easily
Gonna get wiped out during bear markets. Or when the dip keeps dipping. Rich people want to avoid volatility. At least for most of the portfolio. And the portfolio manager probably has many clients under him and gets good at protecting and growing portfolio. If you want, you can have your own trading acount. But managing millions yourself is risky. You might want to do some crazy trade.

>>60545145
>it just does not add up
It’s not that complicated. As you pointed out, there are essentially two requirements for FIRE
>have a high-paying job
>be willing to live well below your means
Being able to stop working and be comfortable for half my life on this earth is worth that to me. You’re correct that I could get cancer randomly but if that’s really a detracting factor for delayed gratification, why make plans at all?

>>60545075
> know even a little bit about investing, which most people on /biz/ could figure out
Figure out and being disciplined are two different things. Most people on /biz/ would gamble it away. If we are talking about millions.

>>60544646
>Earning 100k income is not even enough to live in my city.
only giga-retarded people say dumb shit like this

>>60545442
It is true though. 100K is poor is vhcol cities.

>>60544623
>even easier if you're married and you have double the income / half the expenses.
bro you're delusional

>>60544208 (OP)
>does saving money and investing it work
Gee anon, I wonder

>>60544208 (OP)
FIRE is like a diet. A lot of diets work, but most people can't follow them long-term. It comes down to the human variable.
Some people can't be frugal. Some people are too fearful to hold through market downturns. Some people aren't willing to do research into their stocks. These aren't problems with FIRE.

I make 100k a year, house hack so roomies cover my mortgage, live bare bones where I never go out to eat and I only pay 8 dollars a month for my phone bill.
I still won't be able to retire by 40. Maybe by 55. If anything I'm just hedging against AI taking my job, and will probably have to move to a third world country if so.

>>60544693
>if you live with two roommates in a three bedroom apartment, then
then you might as well just kill yourself right now

>>60545575
NYC median household income is $80k.

>>60544263
your very short life

>>60544208 (OP)
Yes, provided that:
>you save up at least $1m
>you are content of taking out only 4% each year (assuming your yield is higher and beats inflation)
>the American empire will keep existing in its current form for your lifetime
>the economy will keep growing
>you will be living in a rural/LCOL area
>you aren't getting divorce raped
Good luck.
My plan is not to FIRE, but to always have enough FUCK YOU money to be able to sit out several years of unemployment. I will never EVER put myself in a slavery situation where I'm afraid to lose my job.
>>60544487
What the fuck are you even saying? Wealth doesn't survive too many generations. Even if you raise your children perfectly, you have no control who your grandkids will marry. You are throwing away your wealth at people you do not know which statistically will have many hedonists and degenerates among them.
Just invest in your kids enough so they become independent, and maybe leave them a modest amount of inheritance.
>>60544540
>patriarch
LMAO no one will remember you in 200 years. Who the fuck do you think you are? Ptolemy I?

>>60547322
dragged down by the poors. good areas cost over 1M.

>>60544351
they chose their fate