does universal income work or not?

Depends on the labor market and how many jobs we can get the bots to do for us. Japan will be the perfect first case study with its combination of aging population and tech savviness.

>>60727077 (OP)
Yes there are many ez ways to get paid

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It will work or people will die in grievous, Africa-tier poverty, simple as.

>>60727077 (OP)
>does communism work or not?
I'm not sure, maybe it will be different if its tried all over again

>>60727077 (OP)
No cause like 80% of people will live check to check if left to their own devices no matter how much you give them. This isn't entirely accurate but it's basically the biggest hurdle. You basically can only give them like 10% more than the bare minimum it takes to survive.

>>60727102
that's a sacrifice trump is willing to take

>>60727118
except it's not communism. if yang won and everyone got $1000 a month, that still wouldn't pay off the bills everyone has. Hell it wouldn't even cover the entire rent/mortgage for most people.

>>60727077 (OP)
Why yes, section 8 housing, bucks for jobless, all that wouldnt exist like in the third world aka western world in the 19th century.

>>60727077 (OP)
Yes, we already have income welfare in the form of printing money/taking on debt to keep zombie companies afloat which make up of like 75% of all positions. Your HR roastie and useless middle management does not need to exist. 90% of all desk jobs is people sitting around doing jackshit. UBI cuts to the chase and will be necessary as there will only be 2 classes, those who own 100% of the infinitely profitable automation, and gig workers whose labor is entirely worthless.

>right now government has to print money to pay for its broke ass
>most of this money goes to big corpos and boomers or otherwise those who are already rich or niggers (good or even average members of the society don't receive shit)
>this creates unhappiness

>imagine removing the usual government gibs
>but keep the inflation same
>the printed money is UBI that goes to all people equally

sound good to me. inflation is going to happen in fiat system regardless but with most of the gov budget replaced with UBI, it everyone has an equal opportunity before the money tap.

>>60727317
Yep i think its 2k per month for everybody

>>60727317
it also means everyone always gets some starting capital which is necessary to not get stuck in capitalism.

>>60727322
>is necessary to not get stuck in capitalism.
They are intentionally getting people there, see college loans

>>60727077 (OP)
Yeah but you'll have to live next to niggers so no

>>60727077 (OP)
You have to ask if your country overproduces beyond the market threefold or not. In the case of America, it's absolutely workable because the amount of food, water, and commodity production in the US far exceeds the demand of the market. Therefore, it should be statistically impossible for an average American to be in poverty. The point of the UBI is to free citizens from struggling for a living to better themselves and focus on their life goals. The World needs more gentleman scientists like Colinfurze and Nilered, not gambler retards who goon to a green number. The fact that the 1 percent of America can drag everyone else down with them either through inflation or killing the stocks should disgust you.
>>60727118
UBI is a welfare, not a system.

Ubi theoretically can work if the risk free rate of return is sufficiently higher than the cost to implement

For example, let's assume the long term risk free rate of return averages to be 2%, and let's also assume that 100k annual per capita is the cost of ubi for easy math's

100k x 50 = 5m per person. In case that's not blindingly obvious, a program that gives the equivalent of 5m to ever citizen is retarded expensive(1.75 quadrillion for the current usa population, or about 60x the current total gdp). This is also not considering that money will need to be spent on other things. Basically it's a utopian fantasy and you should look down upon and disregard anyone seriously pitching it

>>60727077 (OP)
if your definition of work is a few billion people living welfare tier, sure

My country (Germany) effectively already has UBI, and it does NOT work. It does not work financially, and more importantly it does not work *morally*.

There is no "UBI", but really, there is. Since article 1 of the German constitution states that the dignity of man is inviolable, liberal judges and decades of "social democratic" executive governments have derived more and more positive rights from that one sentence (also notice how it specifies the dignity of man, not the dignity of German citizens).

Included in dignity is: the right to housing, the right to food and water, the right to internet, the right to express your personality and a bunch of other shit I don't remember. So what it means is: the state will pay for all of your living expenses (rent, heat, gas, water, electricity, phone and internet bill, etc.) and you will get an allowance to spend on food and other stuff. Sounds pretty much like UBI, right? Well, that's because it is, just not in name.

This basically pretty much killed service jobs in Germany. Why would you work as a cleaner or server or cashier or at the bakery if you effectively get as much as someone who does literally nothing all day? The only people who are still working these jobs are idiots who haven't figured it out yet or old 1st-gen immigrant Gastarbeiters who morally consider work to be important, but they will all retire soon.

>>60727483
College students don't get anything if they don't get Bafög so they have to work these jobs.
But yes fuck them, why work one of these jobs when you pay 60% back to the government in various forms of taxes.

>>60727077 (OP)
Yes, UBI works, and it will be needed in the future, as AI will take over most jobs, and there will be no consumers for the products made by AI.
You just need three different cryptos (one of them a stable) and swap them in a contained environment indefinitely, so number go up. Then you extract profit from it and use it to fund UBI, avoiding inflation.

>>60727488
This. If UBI is not implemented in the next 10 years, america is fucked.

>>60727483
see that's why ubi has to be unquestionably equal for all citizens. it can't be a selective welfare. it can't be something you lose if you decide to work. even if you're the least """disadvantaged""" you have to receive the same ubi no questions asked. libtard governance is not compatible with such fairness unfortunately.

>>60727483
well maybe the rich people wanting these services should pay a fair price then. ultimately its the parents fault that they weren't part of the wealthy elite but still decided to have kids

>>60727505
There is no "fair price" if the other market competitor is the government.

>>60727517
the government doesn't give that much, about the bare minimum you need to survive in a world where everyone seems to be a rich remote worker. the ones living on gibs are the unlucky ones that didn't get handed one of these bullshit jobs. you could also normalize not paying taxes and save up to 27% on such things just from that

>>60727077 (OP)
if a society adopts UBI (assume it's sustainable thanks to hyper-AI takeover), you still have an upper cap on the total possible population
if the population grows too much then UBI will get below min wage, if it grows way too much UBI will not even be able to cover your food costs

such a society would then have to implement anti-natalist quotas
families who have little to no children thrive, families with lots of children rot in poverty
eventually we will witness trans or post humanism (cyber enhancements or migrating your consciousness to the net) because humans will be obsolete; nothing but worthless consumers, existing as if they were pets just for the sake of existing because AI hasn't gotten rogue enough to kill us yet

>>60727541
>the government doesn't give that much, about the bare minimum you need to survive
Which is still too much
If there is no struggle, there is no pursuit of greater things, as is evident by the current situation in Germany.
Gibs should be for those who are truly unable to work: cripples, (genuine) retards (sub 80 IQ), schizos, etc. (not fake diseases like depression)

>>60727271
To be honest, i'd put rent up if everyone was paid 1000 more

>>60727568
>pursuit of greater things
lol greedy corporations just want someone to scrub their floors for peanuts. they could easily afford to pay living wage for this, too like they do for their office drones that shitpost on 4chan all day. the few truly gifted will do their thing regardless and if anything it will let them focus on it instead of finding scraps to pay for necessities with. you don't turn the average man into some genius scientist or programmer by taking away his bread

>>60727095
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remember when URLs weren't jewish niggerscams?

>>60727578
>you don't turn the average man into some genius scientist or programmer by taking away his bread
This was never the goal. The goal is to not have the average man pay for millions of people to lay around and jerk off instead of scrubbing the floors. No one deserves to get something for nothing. That is the moral dilemma we are facing.

>>60727591
>No one deserves to get something for nothing. That is the moral dilemma we are facing.
we've employed slavery for thousands of years with the express goal of getting "something" (labor) from "nothing" (niggerslaves with no rights.) now are a making software and robots to take the place of slaves. we should be moving toward getting something for nothing.

>>60727591
and for that to work out prices need to be forced down somehow and/or wages up. a much bigger part of social security is actually corporate aid so they don't have to pay living wages, that takes way more money than the few neet gooners

>>60727589
> mid 90s peak internet
> late 90s enter the jews
> mid 2000s enter the naggers.
> its joever

>>60727569
ok then your tenant would just leave and upgrade their apartment and move to a spot where the landlord doesn't raise the rent by an additional couple hundred bucks? Let's say you're renting an apartment that's $1500 pre ubi and after the ubi you want to raise it to $1800 that tenant will just go "ok well lets's see what $1800 now gets me" (this is because not every landlord will raise price by 300 post ubi) and will go to the better spot that his new budget now allows for. the only incentive to stay at the spot you're renting out would be if you kept the price the same.

>>60727605
>.aspx, you don't see that as much anymore.

>>60727601
Just because ChatGPT can write an email to your boss doesn't mean we suddenly have robots that can clean toilets or scrub floors or make the burgers at McDonalds. Wake me up when that actually happens. All we are automating away at the moment are the "bullshit" remote jobs you speak so much of.

>>60727615
premise of aspx remains: server-side operation as a result of a client-side request

>>60727612
>he doesnt know about the secret landlord price fixing meetings

>>60727621
>Just because ChatGPT can write an email to your boss doesn't mean we suddenly have robots that can clean toilets or scrub floors or make the burgers at McDonalds. Wake me up when that actually happens. All we are automating away at the moment are the "bullshit" remote jobs you speak so much of.
all of the so-called "productivity gains" since the 1980s can be attributed to personal computers, computer software, and industrial automation. it has been happening before us for the last 4-5 decades. we are getting something from nothing and we're on track to get even more "something" from even less "nothing."

>>60727077 (OP)
It better work otherwise the poor will eat the rich

>>60727077 (OP)
Money is a social-debt-recognition-token.
The premise is "you did something for society", so now "society owe you back".
Giving out money to people contributing nothing to society is nonsensical.

It's not an income. It's a paid-in-advance-extrotion scheme.
"You might commit violent crime if you get desesperate enough. So here's some money to buy yourself food and recreational drugs."

The solution is not to give out free money.
It's to get rid of the useless fucks : the elderly, the retarded, the beggars, the politicians, ...

>>60727621
You are retarded beyond your wildest comprehension.

>>60727605
every year of web was cancer. should've stayed with files.

>>60727976
unfortunately a few greedy assholes made it so that there is nothing to contribute and most money is earned by fucking youtubers and people that say retarded shit on social media like elon. the people you don't hear of are doing all the real hard work and paid peanuts for it in comparison with these faces you all see and know. rich people are nothing without an army of poors working behind the scenes for him

>>60728031
pic is the problem. automation is making the world a dystopian hell where everyone are lonely individuals with no purpose. people have all those wild ideas about ubi and endless products with no labor but none of that shit is going to happen, all this tech is merely stealing from the average man

>>60727077 (OP)
If by UBI you mean WW3, global famine and manufactured viruses designed to cull 50% of the global population alongside forced sterilisation then yeah, it's going to work great.

>everyone gets $1,000 a month
>landlords raise rent by $1,000 a month
Can someone explain why this wouldn't happen, or at least a more complicated version where all prices inflate a bit to eat this free money?

>>60730731
It would happen, it’s retarded to believe otherwise. Those in favor of UBI are almost always <100IQ losers without real jobs who contribute nothing.

>>60730914
>>60730731

Most area's prevent landlords from raising prices above a certain percentage each year.