Good news, everyone! Last 30 years of Spider-Man comics didn't actually happen!

>>148985541 (OP)
azoinab on X btw

>>148985541 (OP)
Is this the fnaf guy? I actually like this artstyle, kinda reminds me of Frank Miller

>>148985541 (OP)
What was the specific issue/year/run in which Spider-Man started to go objectively downhill in a general way. No
>well, some stories were bad, but there also were some great ones that you shouldn't miss
Was it during Byrne's run?

>>148986663
It really is OMD.

>>148985541 (OP)
This is a canon event

>>148985541 (OP)
Yes, this happens every time they change writers.

>>148986663
Maximum Carnage was the start.

Ultimate Spider-Man's sales and critical acclaim is starting to make me drink the "70% of what's wrong with comics today could've been avoided if OMD never happened" kool-aid

>>148985541 (OP)
Yes they did

>>148985541 (OP)
This is all I want. I want it so bad. There's nothing from the last 30 years I care about I wouldn't miss anything at all. Just reset it and I can go with the new canon of ASM # 1-138, skip the Clone Saga, then pick back up in for the Shooter run until right before OMD, then just skip to the reset.

>>148986663
I'm doing a read through starting at the beginning right now so my opinion might change, but it seems to be generally accepted it was great until The Clone Sage, got good again when they started the wedding arc, then went back to shit with OMD and hasn't recovered since.

>>148986663
Slott?

>>148985541 (OP)
this is exactly what happened in the newspaper comic

>>148985541 (OP)
That is good news!

>>148986663
>>148987023
This guy has it right, but it's a little before that. It's Amazing Spider-Man #365 (Aug 1992), the return of Spider-Man's parents, it's the first big soap opera stunt Marvel did with the series and for the next two years, Richard Parker just exists to criticize the concept of Spider-Man and Peter's mortality, until it's revealed TWO YEARS LATER that they're Life Model Decoy's built by the Chameleon, which then dove tails into the next big Soap Opera event the Clone Saga, which dove tails into the return of Norman Osborn, which dove tails into the search for Spider-Man's baby/the Return of Aunt May, which dove tails into MJ "dieing" in a plain crash ect ect

However, speculators buy this issue on sight, it's the first appearance of Spider-Man 2099 and is still dirt cheap.

paul paul paul paul
paul paul paul paul

>>148988984
Yeah Fingeroth was the editor who first truly made Spider-Man suck but to his credit, he did let JMD have his Spectacular run. But after #200, it's Maximum Carnage and everything is lousy.

>>148989207
Knightfall and Maximum Carnage was the 1-2 punch that killed done-in-one comic book story telling after that you couldn't just pick up a random issue and know what was going on.

>>148989262
Knightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend went on for too long but the first two parts had plenty of stories that were resolved within the issue itself with a long-running subplot continuing on which was comics as usual.

Seriously tho, a teacher can be the worst fucking possible job a super-hero could have, SPECIALLY Spider-Man.

>>148986663
95 with the Clone shit
JMS haters don't realize that the 90s/Byrne were also doing the same shit as OMD
We had a brief reprieve from 01-05 and whenever thr Spencer run was.

>>148985541 (OP)

This is the problem with western comics. Once they're out of the original creators hands, they get more and more retarded. You might get a lucky break here and there with a writer who actually cares more about the character than their own ego and ambition, but it's rare these days. Generally speaking the Japanese have proved that leaving a property in the hands of the original creator works best, and that it's best to retire a property when the OC dies.

>>148989397
The depressing part is that Spidey had good or great stories for the first three decades, in the worst case they were just okay. So it's sad to see not only that the consistency was lost, but also that for the last three decades it's been the complete opposite

>>148985578
It’s nothing like Frank Miller at all. Like literally not in any way shape or form.

>>148986663
Clone Saga is when things went off the rails, but arguably there were things happening before it that were already causing problems. Even though Clone Saga did have its moments its fatal error was telling the audience that the Peter they'd been reading since the 70s was the clone.

Post-Clone Saga they tried but not many people came back and they couldn't be sure if it was due to the crash or that readers didn't accept things like Norman Osborn still being alive.

Byrne era, was around late 1998 to 2001 even though Byrne left like in the middle of 2000. It's mainly because the major change--the alleged death of Mary Jane--didn't get resolved till like early 2001.

At its worse it was at the time more damaging than the Clone Saga, but people didn't know of this because the readership was reduced at this time and a lot of people who jumped on board Quesada's reign didn't bother to read old comics and copied whatever someone else told them. That said there were still bright spots during this era like Paul Jenkins and Mark Buckingham's run and that Howard Mackie/JRJR issue where Spider-Man confronted Hulk after MJ's death.

Most of the OMD/BND era (which is 2007 to now) is basically the lowest point on account that it was very clear editorial and some creatives didn't really give a shit about quality. For all Byrne's faults at least he could outright tell that OMD was a terrible idea. Spencer to his credit tried to right the ship and Zdarsky did improve greatly but this era is marred by utter trash like the Wells run and bad decision-making on the whole. Marvel lost sight of how the Clone Saga lasting two years was enough to drive off readers and all they do is drag unpopular shit out because they got overconfident about being top dog. Well nowadays everyone's seeing that Marvel's mainline been faltering

>>148989906
I really don't get how they can keep parroting: "Studies show that making the readers mad is what sells comics" when they're at an all time low and the thing everyone wants is what put them at an all time high.

People blame OMD, but the reality is Spiderman himself is the problem. Not as a concept, but as a concept we've moved away from. He's supposed to be "what if superhero was normal person with normal problems?", but instead he is "what if superhero was soap opera character with soap opera problems?" And that's not OMD's fault, OMD is just the cancer metastasizing.

>>148990497
Because they were able to mask it for a long time.
Like Didio kept fucking shit up at DC, so Marvel and their shills were able to keep pointing to those things to take the heat off of Marvel. Then you got the incentive variants and the constant relaunches which had artificial boosts.

>>148986989
It doesnt but it should
The current shit with venom where they obviously hate Paul and want him out but are trying to give it an actual narrative sucks, give it a single page of writing him out or just fucking drop him and don't acknowledge he ever existed. All the shitty writers destroy years of continuity in singular pages for their own retarded takes but nobody else is allowed to do the same to them specifically just to remove the tumours they put in.

>>148985541 (OP)
Don't forget the time MJ said she didn't want to be with Peter because his superhero life was too much for her and then she went and worked for Tony Stark.

>>148989367
Yes but it perfectly fits him as a character. His morality is the exact one that would give up on all the wealth and power his super genius could possibly get him to give back to rhw community in the most personal and direct way possible. A job which isnt noticed much but he can make a tangible difference in the lives of those he thinks needs it most. It's hard to swing but it is the job spider-man would 100% have.

>>148991379
The problem is that he was a public school teacher, which requires his presence and doesn't offer much opportunity for him to sneak out. Not to mention that teaching involves a lot of post-school day work as well. College professor would have been a much better choice.

>>148990518
Peter evolved and grew too much for a comic book universe striving to maintain some kind of status quo. Going from an angry loner with money troubles and caring for an old woman that hates his superhero counterpart to a married man with a stable job and the love of said aunt that knows he's a superhero was too much for Marvel.

>>148986663
Clone shit was the catalyst of bad Spider-Man shit, and OMD was the death of the character entirely.

>>148991489
It would be been more sensible but decidedly worse for his characterization. Even a community college still has some shifts of blue-bloodedness. A high school is the epitome of
>how can I reach these kiiiids
But played straight. It's a demographic that's young enough to be vulnerable and impressionable but old enough to give pushback and have relatable struggles. It's a solid metaphor for him caring about everyone at all times regardless of their circumstances.
I'd rather him be a substitute teacher or go all the way up to being owner of some company than college professor

>>148985541 (OP)
>Good news, everyone! Last 30 years of Spider-Man comics didn't actually happen!
Aw, let Norman and Gwen have their kids and just cut off before OMD. It kept the Gwenfags in their place, and look at what happens when they're not in their place.

>>148991587
College is a time of transition and personal growth with a lot of freshmen coming to terms with increasing expectations and negotiating what they want out of life, Peter teaching some Intro To classes while trying to help guide a bunch of 18yos getting started in life fits his character perfectly.

>>148989262
>Knightfall and Maximum Carnage was the 1-2 punch that killed done-in-one comic book story telling after that you couldn't just pick up a random issue and know what was going on.
Before there was a Wikipedia or other online resources, most new readers started with a comic that was part way through an ongoing story and had to work out what was happening and who everyone was, there was usually enough exposition and recap to help out new readers, there used to be a rule to treat every issue like it could be someone's first, but multi-issue storylines had been a thing for decades before the 90s.

If your issue is crossover storylines that ran between several titles, Spider-Man had already done that with Kraven's Last Hunt, and some earlier 80s stories, and maybe you're giving them a pass because you like them. Maximum Carnage wasn't doing anything Spider-Man comics hadn't done before except last a month longer than Kraven's Last Hunt.

>>148991641
And college is restricted to only those who want to go to college and have the discretionary income to seek higher education
Primary school is everyone

>>148991686
Maximum Carnage was 14 issues across 5 titles over 4 months. The full Knightfall storyline was 71 issues across 9 titles over 23 months. Secret Wars had 12 main issues and 33 tie-in issues over 11 months. Maximum Carnage wasn't shit in terms of a crossover by any means.

Reminder that Paul is the real Spider-Man and Peter is a fake who stole Paul's destiny, so Peter deserves every bad thing that has ever happened to him.

>>148985541 (OP)
marywhoriumfags are delusional

>>148991797
>Secret Wars had 12 main issues and 33 tie-in issues over 11 months.
Secret Wars "tie ins" are just all the monthly ongoings having one month's issue end with the hero going to the start of Secret Wars #1, and the next issue opening with them returning from Secret Wars, and notes telling readers to read Secret Wars to find out what happened in between those issues (and Secret Wars being published over 12 months). Secret Wars 2 is more of a normal crossover where some of the tie-ins between issues of the main book actually matter to the story.

>>148991686
>Spider-Man had already done that with Kraven's Last Hunt, and some earlier 80s stories, and maybe you're giving them a pass because you like them. Maximum Carnage wasn't doing anything Spider-Man comics hadn't done before except last a month longer than Kraven's Last Hunt.
Kraven's Last Hunt was six issues and a serious story, not conceived as a big sales event. Maximum Carnage was a bloated 14 issue event comic whose sales success directly lead to making crossover events a regular part of the Spider-titles, directly responsible for the clone saga.
Lot of anons blaming the clone saga for when things went bad, but the period in-between Maximum Carnage and the next big event wasn't all that good either. You had I Am the Spider, and "Let's turn Vulture into a young man wearing armor because the old one is so lame" (which they eventually backpedaled on) among other failed updates of all his rogues around the same time period in an attempt to make them edgier.

Honestly, having Spider-Man reveal his identity during Secret Wars was the beginning of the end.
No way Pete would have been that dumb, he knows what his enemies are capable of.

>>148992428
Civil War
I am dumb

>>148992428
The identity reveal happened only because it was going to be undone within a few months anyway

>>148985541 (OP)
Capeshitters are so retarded that something like this would not only be accepted but hailed by you losers.

>>148990518
"Normal problems" is an oxymoron. A normal life is one with no inherent problems, except for minor grievances.
We don't consider people with problems in their life to be normal

>>148991805
>>148991827
Pedophiles are a small and angry people. And so are the Polish.

Coincidence???

>>148985541 (OP)
I like how MJ is subtly completely naked and so must Pete be

>>148992911
If I were Paul, I would have raped Dylan for his disrespect. Who else agrees with me?

>>148992428
Tony Stark gave him assurances that everything would be completely fine, after all he revealed his identity and nothing bad happened to him or his friends and family, and Peter would also be under his protection. As the story showed, Stark was a flaky idiot.

>>148993010
Why would Peter trust Tony's assurances?

>>148993029
Because they were in a bromance at the time. Peter had moved into the Avengers tower, living the good life.

>>148989837
shut the fuck up creampie it absolutely resembles miller’s work why the fuck do people like you love arguing over objectively true shit

>>148993040
Gay

>>148985541 (OP)
Heidi Gardner is never getting back with Zeb Wells, and Tom Brevoort is never getting his hair back.

>>148993209
And most importantly of all: Paul will NEVER gate to rape Dylan!

>>148986663
When did Venom become an anti-hero?

>>148992868
Everyone has problems in their life. Maybe you just don't have a life?

>>148991805
Send Paul to the DCU where he can be just as cancerous to some other perfect relationship
I need this

>>148993330
1993 with Lethal Protector

Flash Thompson being the King in Black instead of Eddie Brock is the only way to fix this timeline.

>>148994028
Spider-Boy being flushed down a toilet would help

>>148989397
Or following yugioh/sentai/jojo method, aka new mc/support with the same setting

>>148994073
>Paul accidentally ages him up to 14 then he's sent to the Mojoverse to become a twink

>>148986663
Either when peter's perents' past was revealed or JMS. Most bad things today can be traced back to him.
>The Other
>Sins' Past
>OMD
>inb4 editorial forced it on him!
I don't give a shit, fuck that hack.

>>148989262
Personally I blame the X-Men. When you need flowcharts to understand what comics to read it's a fucking problem.

>>148994971
>lets advertise a massacre like a fun kids activity puzzle

>>148993951
There's your answer.

>>148985541 (OP)
Called it!

>>148985541 (OP)
The only way, if you ask me.

>>148985541 (OP)
whorefagbros literally cannot cope

>>148993209
One thing I wonder is if she ever read his Spider-Man run. Surely she must have checked out what he wrote while they were married. How strange to recognize specific aspects of your divorce reflected in a comic book, to see things you've said come from a fictional character's lips.