Did Genwunners stunt the growth of Transformers as a frachise?

There has been some fantastic Transformers media released in recent years yet nearly all of it has flopped. Did Genwunners insistence of creators retelling the same story and/or reusing the same characters turn Transformers into a boomer IP that neither Gen Z nor Gen Alpha care about?

>There has been some fantastic Transformers media released in recent years
But what if you didn't have a traumatic head injury?

>>148995551 (OP)
>some fantastic Transformers media released in recent years yet nearly all of it has flopped.
Earthspark is dogshit and you know it. Prime and Animated were the last good transformers shows. Stop blaming everything on "GeEwuNnErz!" for the problems with the series currently.

>>148995551 (OP)
transformers is the biggest PSA warning against catering to boomer parasites.
this is why tpc completely ignores these genwunner parasites. constantly pandering to bitter old cunts will result in a stagnating or dead franchise. pokemon's owners were smart enough to know this and this is why they are always pushing forward. even if they do bring back old mons or trainers they always makesure to remix them in some way in order to appeal to newer generations, and they never make these old mons and human characters the center of their new stories.

>>148995654
>pokemon's owners were smart enough to know this and this is why they are always pushing forward
Yeah let's pretend they don't constantly shill CHARIZARD and KANTOOOOO every fucking chance they get.

>>148995551 (OP)
Most of the most successful entries do variations of the G1 plot or continuations of it, while the less successful ones do shit like "let's fag about doing politics in space" or "What if le humans....HATED THE AUTOBOTS TOO, for NO REASOn?!?!?!" and pseudointellectual faggotry, so I don't think that's it honestly. If anything, the recent relative return to prominence has largely had to do with trying to actually go back to what made G1 work, IE "The Autobots work with humans to fight the evil forces of the decepticons on earth as they attempt to raid, conquer, and exploit everything they see." because every hard change from that premise [evil humans, we're purely in space now with only the robots who never transform, what if the war was defacto over, etc] just fucking flops into the ground. The only times it's really worked historically are usually continuing as a development from that classic outline and even then they usually revisit it in various ways just to touch base.

>>148995551 (OP)
Yes

>>148995672
They don't, which is why genwunners are always pissing themselves in anger. Every time they bring back old mons they remix them, and every time they bring back old characters they almost always play a minor role. All of the focus and attention is always on the new.

>Did Genwunners insistence of creators retelling the same story and/or reusing the same characters turn Transformers into a boomer IP that neither Gen Z nor Gen Alpha care about?
I'd argue that this did its growth as story or mythos, but it's also the saving grace of the franchise. if transformers didn't constantly reboot back to the status que and tried to do one contiguous timeline instead then it would have died a long time ago. it would be exactly like what happened with star wars but worse.

>>148995588
>>148995607
t. geewunners

>>148995687
Kys fag

>>148995607
I think they mean Transformers One and the Skybound comic.

>>148995722
*this did stunt its growth

The real problem is that modern cars are fucking gay and toys based on 80s cars are far cooler

>>148995847
>and toys based on 80s cars are far cooler
Most modern cars are pretty boring, but there's still some cool ones out there, and ones from other eras before the late 70's/80's.
We're still stuck on making the G1 guys 50 year old cars at this point, it's kind of insane. Some of them are older than cars from the 40's would've been back in the G1 days.
The movies are the only time they really venture out into modern cars or cars past the 80's, and it's more out of necessity.

>>148995905
Going the other way to a 40s / WWII themed Transformers would be cool

>>148995726
I liked Transformers One but it was way to late to be rolled out for a story that has been told to death and in many different ways. It was almost a paint by the numbers like story/plot, superhero origin story, rag tag group gathering up to take out the big baddie, brothers divided, it was original for how unoriginal it was, the performances as a whole were nothing noteworthy either. In a lot of ways it was like the Bumblebee movie, it didn't do anything wrong, it got the concept right, but it did nothing novel or eye catching.

Skybound is just a lot of action set pieces and little else. Junk food for the soul, in a sea of other series that were the same way. It's not offensive but the most noteworthy thing was more OC doughnuts and Prime having Megs arm canon which isn't an original idea it's just most creatives avoided it for how entrenched it was in the fan communities over the years.

>>148995847
To be blunt the biggest issue is the company made this to sell toys which as a market has been a ghost of it's former self for ten years now and they don't have the means to move into other means of media as everything right now is dramatically changing in how it earns money.

>>148995551 (OP)
cry more zoomer.
I thrive on your tears.
Your slop can never top the pure epicness that is G1.
Now go whack off to some Airachnid porn.

probably because transformers isn't as big of a franchise that people think it is.

>>148996002
>e but it was way to late to be rolled out for a story that has been told to death and in many different ways
For a dedicated fan yeah, and it was very cliche,but I think fans lose perspective as to what
Like a TF origin has been done many ways, but if someone asked you before what the TF origin was and where they could watch it, where would you point them to? a few one-off episodes in the middle of G1? A few minutes from Prime or maybe Animated(which has it's own deviation from the more popular takes)? The comics, which are inherently a niche medium? It's something we take for granted because we've been fans long enough to encounter the origins, but there's one(fittingly) "Start from one" for it for new fans.

The Skybound comic similarly may not appeal to long time fans, but it does a great job trying to make the TFs exciting again for new and casual fans. They feel massive and destructive and like what they do has consequence in a way that IDW lost over time.

>>148996275
>Like a TF origin has been done many ways, but if someone asked you before what the TF origin was and where they could watch it
Stop! That's the error in this system that has ruined most story telling for the last 20+ years: it doesn't need one. The brand was never built on the hero's journey, much like Star Trek the brand was built around exploration of ideas involving these characters. Same with Beast Wars and Prime. In fact even Animated understood this and Optimus and his crew's backgrounds were layer in episodes that shared their past but in a more broader sense of the world they were in. TF One was just the hero's journey with very little of anything else, the 13 were just props to be knocked down, the Quints were just basic bad dudes for the main antagonist to cut a deal with, the whole world felt more empty than it should have and it's because they pour it all into and origin story no one ask for.

>>148996486
I get where you're coming from, and I agree since I think a lot of the appeal for Transformers was having no core lead hero for the longest time. There were important characters, but it was a rotating spotlight on different characters.
But marketing has changed. Optimus, Bumblebee, Starscream, and Megatron are undeniably the most important characters in the franchise these days. I get trying to adapt to how modern franchises tend to start with origin stories and backgrounds, or have a main character, especially for movies.

>>148995551 (OP)
On the ohter hand now is the time for a real reboot or even better an adaptation of the Marvel comics

>>148996593
>I think a lot of the appeal for Transformers was having no core lead hero for the longest time
literally was Optimus Prime since day one until the movie.

Takara was smart to recognize the idea of being able to move on from him though after JG1 ended, even the new good guy leaders like Lio Convoy, Big Convoy and Fire Convoy were just Optimus Prime coded unlike say Metalhawk, Star Saber or Dai Atlas were previously.

>>148996593
>But marketing has changed.
Only because they forced it, Song of Fire and Ice didn't take off because it was core cast, it showed that people wanted to get lost in the world and the cast were the vessel for that.

>>148996618
>Takara was smart to recognize the idea of being able to move on from him though after JG1 ended

It was more that the series was a bit more a breakneck mess over there having season 3 air long before they ever got the movie.

>>148996671
that is true. they didn't get the movie dubbed in time between the first couple seasons and season 3. like no joke the japanese dub literally just moved onto season 3 after they finished the original first 2 season run (and even then they didn't even dub every episode like Day of the Machines and Autobot Run were only dubbed like later on for the Laserdisc in the early 90s, they didn't keep every VA from the dub so new people came in for those episodes). Fun Fact: The Ultimate Doom 3 parter is actually the last episode in Japan before the timeskip.

>>148996618
>literally was Optimus Prime since day one until the movie.
He's the most important Autobot yeah, but other characters got spotlight episodes. The cartoon wasn't just about how the leader of the autobots was going to save the day. Same with how the villain focus episodes weren't just centered around Megatron.

> some fantastic Transformers media released in recent years yet nearly all of it has flopped.

>insistence of creators retelling the same story and/or reusing the same characters

If the problem is the story and characters, then what was so fantastic about it? The art?

>>148996593
>I get trying to adapt to how modern franchises tend to start with origin stories and backgrounds, or have a main character, especially for movies.

The 07 movie that made them mad bank had no real origin of the robots and it was more the adventures of Sam getting laid. The following year's Iron Man success broke everyone's brain thinking origin stories were some winning formula. It's not, or rather you can't chase that formula because it all starts to quickly burr together. No one love Transformers because Megs and Prime were bffs turn enemies.

>>148996715
>The following year's Iron Man success broke everyone's brain thinking origin stories were some winning formula
weird to say given we had Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, Batman Begins or Richard Donner Superman, all films about their heroes origin stories prior to Iron Man's launch.

>>148996705
They were well crafted, but these creator's talents talents could have been better used on new stuff instead of retreading genwun shit that inevitably flops

capish?

>>148996715
Because the Transformers movies are about Sam more than the Transformers. Even so it made the characters very high profile and made Hasbro realize Optimus could be their Superman or Spider-man...yet casual audiences didn't really know what Optimus' origin even was. That's something they've been trying(and largely failing, admittedly) to fix since 2007.
>>148996726
Raimi's Spider-man kicked off the modern "origin movie" so well that even by 2008, you had Superhero Movie as a parody of how repetitive superhero origin movies were becoming. It wasn't a new thing by 08.

>>148996726
Anon's point might be more all those Marvel origin stories of the late 00s made companies take the wrong idea to what their success was ie long form origin stories.Spiderman and Batman Begins were 2002 and 2005 with Richard Donner Superman being 1978. From 08 to 10 we had 15 cape origin story films and we have reached near 50 in the last 15 years. The market got bloated.

>>148995551 (OP)
>There has been some fantastic Transformers media released in recent years yet nearly all of it has flopped
Yes groundbreaking things like...
>Earthspark slop
>Cyberverse slop
>Netflix slop
>IDW reboot slop
>Rotb slop
>The complete absence of the cybertron games in favor for shovelware slop
>Reactivate getting cancelled

None of the shit I listed was "Fantastic". Skybound and TFONE were the only good things in recent years

>>148996726
>>148996884
Anons, the MCU's success was what drove the market into thinking everything needs an origins.

>>148996946
A million times this, the modern fan was born from this awful market started by the MCU.

>>148996884
>.yet casual audiences didn't really know what Optimus' origin even was. That's something they've been trying(and largely failing, admittedly) to fix since 2007.
its funnier when you learn how War Dawn came to be, the original Optimus Prime origin story. David Wise just thought it'd be fun to do an episode where we get to see how the war started and one of the main characters was the first casualty of the war but what was funny was when he selected Optimus for the role, he was worried Hasbro would reject the script because it would interfere with a possible backstory he was unaware of but thankfully for Wise, Hasbro never thought about any of that backstory stuff since well they were just toys to them.

>>148996884
>Raimi's Spider-man kicked off the modern "origin movie"

How exactly? By what metric?

>>148996991
>since well they were just toys to them.
Funny enough the series and films that Hasbro was the most hands off on did the best.

>>148996959
i dunno Cyberverse actually was rather good especially by the end, The Perfect Decepticon is probably one of the best series finales for any Transformers show (up there with Beast Machines, Armada and Cybertron's for me)

toyline was slop i'll give you that but i genuinely think Cyberverse was rather good.

I think OP is kinda retarded, not gonna lie. While G1 is the basis of the entire franchise and well loved, let's not pretend TFs hasn't explored beyond that and created fun shit since. Guys like Tidal Wave, Lugnut, Airachnid, Knock-Out, and Strika wouldn't exist if we kept treading over the same ground

>>148996946
There was also Fantastic Four, Hulk 2003, Daredevil, Punisher, Ghost Rider, Catwoman(which isn't really an adaptation, but does have an origin). Hellboy isn't really a superhero movie, but does go into his origins.
Not a superhero movie, but Casino Royale was also the first Bond origin we see in movies.
We had a shit ton of Superhero origin movies in the 2000's even before the MCU. It's kind of expected that if you introduce a hero you have to show how they got their powers, or at least why they put on a costume.

>>148997073
i never really understood why people should be mad that the first major outing of a character on film would be a origins film of sorts.

i mean its only after reboot after reboot, the audience gets the jist and wants to see some new stories with those characters.

>>148997073
Hellboy origins were a sneeze in the film. You might as well say any move that notes a persons past is an origin film.

>>148997073
>Fantastic Four, Hulk 2003, Daredevil, Punisher, Ghost Rider, Catwoman

Weren't all those poorly received too? Pretty sure two of those ended film makers livelihoods. FF just got it's sequel due to how well they marketed it and contacts but no one liked it.

I think everyone is missing anon's point for weird reasons (ESL?), they didn't say IM was the first, they said it's success was what drove the market.

>>148997009
>How exactly? By what metric?
Superman 79 is obviously a big origin story for Superman, but Batman 89, while is it sort of an origin of things like Batman's partnership with the police or becoming better known beyond an urban legend, as Bruce already be Batman at the start, we don't see how he trained, or how he set up his arsenal. Blade and X-men also start off with the characters already acclimated to their hero roles, with X-men just serving to show how Wolverine and Rogue join the team.
The handful of other superhero/comic based movies between Batman 89 and Spider-man 2002 similarly tended to start with an experienced hero. Dick Tracy, The shadow, The Phantom, hell even stuff like Mystery men has the heroes already be heroes.
Spider-man started off the plot structure of showing the character's ordinary life before they got their powers, showing how they got their powers and explaining why they'd use those powers for good, becoming a costumed hero, earning their first victories and finally affirming themselves as a hero. It owes a lot to Superman 79, but it streamlines and modernizes it.
We still see this structure used in origin movies.

>>148997100
Who said anyone is mad? It's more they just don't care. That was the whole point of this talk. It's taken weird turns to say the least.

>>148997183
The general public never has it's just midwits and fans read too much into what makes success or is a "good story"

>>148997177
>Superman 79 is obviously a big origin story for Superman

you mean 78 and it don't think you have watched it

>>148995551 (OP)
TF got mogged by Skibidi toilet

What issues of Transformers have Tarn in them? I wanted to learn more about that guy since his face keeps popping up

>>148997165
>they didn't say IM was the first, they said it's success was what drove the market.
Because IM2008 itself was just following trends. If you show a character outside of ordinary archetypes from reality, you should probably show the backstory.
Those movies may have not been all successful, but in the 2000's it was just getting common to go into origin stories.

>>148997219
> it don't think you have watched it
I literally just watched it today anon. I've watched it multiple times over my life, anon. Hell I own the Christopher Reeve Superman Hot Toys figure.
Explain how it's not an origin story for Superman.

>>148997064
>Guys like Tidal Wave, Lugnut, Airachnid, Knock-Out, and Strika wouldn't exist if we kept treading over the same ground
The newest of those characters is 14 years old.

>>148997263
>If you show a character outside of ordinary archetypes from reality, you should probably show the backstory.

That is a very poor imagination. The best films of our time never needed to do this.

Also it's clear TF as a brand is dead, we are talking more about Marvel and DC films than the robots themselves
No one cares about Transformers anymore

>>148997254
IDW's More than Meets the Eye, he debuts proper in #7.

>>148997369
Unfortunately, you're not selling to the smartest audiences if you want the widest one. You are selling to normies who cannot largely fathom fantasy without an explanation of some sort.

>>148995551 (OP)
>Did Genwunners stunt the growth of Transformers as a franchise?
>Been around for 40 years.
>Been a toy aisle staple.
>High-ass grossing films.
Turns out, turning away from the robot war fighting aspect into some...very bad substitutes is a bigger issue.

>>148997369
>Also it's clear TF as a brand is dead, we are talking more about Marvel and DC films than the robots themselves
Because chasing the same model as those films is part of where Transformers where it it right now.

>>148996002
>Skybound is just a lot of action set pieces and little else.
TRVTHNVKE

It's the JJK of Transformers.

>>148995654
I feel like Power Rangers is now the worst example of a company taking what was a kids thing, made entirely for kids and transitioning it over to old adult fans. Now they make a new toy set of the 1993 mighty morphin line every other year.

Which is a really fucked up situation when Bandai already had the perfect situation set up before to have a new show with a new robot and new figures set up for a new generation every single year for almost 40 years. And they decide to drop all that so they can milk boomer nostalgia and sell the same toys to the same adults until they go bankrupt.

>>148995551 (OP)
Firetruck > Big rig

Go on, fight me, I know what the better transformation is.

Genwunners did not stunt the growth of Transformers as a franchise. Studios did.
Lack of proper advertising for TFOne, constant changing of heads on different shows, toylines focusing on G1. Lets not forget that the shows are either exclusive to fucking Netflix or some premium channel we never heard about. Everytime something new tries to be done, it is never given reach to a wider audience and that's what the Bayverse movies did. Except... those lost relevance after everyone saw what they needed to see and stopped giving a fuck.

>>148998567
Personally I hate the fact that Fire Convoy can't be his own character and has to be stuck being another Optimus in America.
But if you mean Cybertron/GF or Animated, yeah they're pretty cool too.

>>148998578
I would say turning what was a vehicle for kids toys and turning it into some adult movie franchise did a lot of damage too. All of a sudden everything has to be distilled down to a small core group of characters for film. It all has to be digestible to adults who constantly ask questions and want it to make logical sense, and they want the movie to be sufficiently dramatic and tragic.

Kids like robots that shoot lasers and turn into dinosaurs.

>>148998535
What really fucked Power rangers over was Nick forcing them to do two seasons per show with less episodes per season. It completely threw them off their traditional structure of doing a new series based off the prior year's sentai. It became a juggling act of trying to maintain interest across the year with less episodes and needing to find a way to mash together two incongruent themes, or finding ways to reework a theme midway through for another season even when they were adapting the same show.
Sentai themes getting a big too "out there" for US audiences probably doesn't help(ToQger being skipped), but overall the issues for it stem for how Nick fucked with production.

>>148998296
Nah,It has metaphores such as Starscream being groomed and raped in summer of 1992 by Megatrons Big Black Barrel.

>>148995551 (OP)
Absolutely.

Hasbro is reluctant to risk because they want G1 Optimus Prime to be their Superman so bad unaware that change is the core of the brand.