What is the /co/sensus on the Red Sky seasons of TMNT? After spending a couple years rewatching the series, its kind of a breath of fresh air though it's not as good as the first season or the second half of season 7. A little grittiness is welcome but they strip out most of the humor and the show starts to lose it's identity.
Also the whole series is on Tubi for free now.

>>149005177 (OP)
It's kind of funny how things seemingly changed overnight like a semi reboot

>>149005177 (OP)
It was like that adage about orange farmer and apple farmer, both could be more efficient by focusing on the crop best suited to their land and skills but the orange farmer is losing sales and notices the apple farmer is making more sales than them, so they change over to apples, which are not as good as the more experienced farmer already has, and you just drove all your orange buyers away leaving them in a worse state than if he just kept to growing oranges.

>>149005177 (OP)
The show still had enough of an audience to keep going, but it was 7 years old by then. Younger kids had newer kiddie cartoons to watch, older kids had newer shows like Batman and X-Men that were more 'serious' and 'mature' from day one, and were more popular by this point in the 90s. Trying to change TMNT to compete with them was always going to be too little, too late. In retrospect it probably would've been a better idea to just end the show, wait a few years, then relaunch with something more serious in tone, closer to the original comics, but that would need them to take a loss now in the hope of a possible future gain that may not even work out, so you can see why they did what they did.

Watched out of the context of the time period it was in for action cartoons, it's just a jarring shift, and the main villains being dropped and replaced with an OC isn't a great move, as it was one of those cartoons you'd watch for the villains as much as for the heroes.

>>149005191
They really did, though on the rewatch, I noticed in season 7 there is a bit of a tone shift, though not necessarily getting gritter. There less goofy cartoon plots and more "ninja intrigue" type episodes and violence creeping back in the show. I really love the world showcased in the first season and it always bums me out they got so far away from that.
>>149005206
Yeah, Dregg is OK but he doesn't have Shredder and Krang's charisma. I will say the show does a decent job trying rehab Shredder into a threat, with him committing legitimate terrorist acts (blowing up the Channel 6 building) in season 8. He and Krang even get a few spotlight episodes in season 10 which is a nice sendoff for them, even though they're not there for the finale.

>>149005177 (OP)
I love the original TMNT series, but I don't care for the Red Sky seasons. They feel more like a generic kids action cartoon. Something like Street Fighter or Highlander: The Series. All of the humor, satire, and charm of the first 7 seasons (the stuff that drew me to the TMNT franchise) is almost completely absent from the Red Sky episodes. They aren't bad, there's just nothing there for me to enjoy now as someone with an adult brain.

>>149005177 (OP)
They were trying to rip off BTAS visually but with like a fraction of the budget and talent

>>149005177 (OP)
The turtles turning edgy has always been obnoxious when we know they are NOT allowed to do anything in the cartoons. They won't swear or kill anyone.

No one ever talks about how short these actual seasons are. 8 episodes each.
It's like they made enough for one season and spaced it out over 3 years.

the twilight seasons of TMNT '87 were rough. With the advent of BTAS, X-Men, Gargoyles, etc as well as importing and "remaking" Super Sentai as "Power Rangers" and anime gradually becoming mainstream, 'twas obvious that TMNT had to step down for a while.

>>149005712
That was common for network Saturday morning cartoons from that era. Unless the show was wildly popular like Smurfs or Garfield and Friends, short seasons with fewer than 13 episodes were pretty common.

>>149005231
Lord Dregg was a weak attempt to rip off MMPR's Lord Zedd. Not even Tony Jay could salvage him.

>>149005855
Even Smurfs weren't immune to rot. The final season never had reruns or blu-rays.
Garfield & Friends was aware that its time was over so it went out with style

>>149005883
Yup. Well, in Smurfs' case, the network that aired it was already preparing to bail out of the Saturday morning game altogether by the time its final season was airing.

>>149005883
They devoted a whole U.S. Acres episode to mocking CBS for the budget cuts they were hitting the cartoons with (The Discount of Monte Cristo).

>>149005855
Sure, but every season before that was at least 10 episodes, with as many as 47, and the prior season having 27. Only Season 1 had less than 10, and that was basically a pilot season

>>149006605
The syndicated seasons obviously had huge episode counts. The CBS seasons would obviously have been much smaller since those were network seasons that aired once a week.

>>149005206
Didn't help their redesigned the turtles too look evil and constantly pissed off, the new evil type eye ruined them.

>>149005712
Who knows, maybe that's what it was, wouldn't been the first time.

>>149005177 (OP)
Too different to please TMNT fans. Not different enough to attract a new audience. It was made for nobody and exists as a peculiar little novelty, and nothing else.

>>149008122
I think there would've been a market for cooler TMNT, like the advertising art for the video games, but the problem is the seasons aren't cool enough. Just kinda boring.

>>149008499
The problem was that they needed a new cartoon to do that, and the idea of endlessly rebooting cartoons wasn't quite acceptable yet. Not to mention that ending one cartoon and immediately starting a new series would piss off old fans.

It is sort of neat that TMNT has a definitive ending. Dregg gets blowed up, and Splinter declares he is no longer the master of the turtles but rather their equal. It’s not much but a lot of classic shows from that era never got any sort of finale.

>>149008122
>TMNT fans

There weren't many left after that 3rd movie, though.

>>149005177 (OP)
They're fine, I mean it's more the same but more generic action cartoon, it would've been fun to see this take crossover with 03 or 2012, I think it's a solid evolution of the turtles maturing even if it was out of nowhere.

>>149005177 (OP)
Interest in the show was going away by then already. TMNT had been around for years, the kids who loved it in its heyday had grown and moved on. And it is hard for a long running series to attract new viewers.

Probably wold have been for the best if the show just ended around 1993.

>>149005206
>>149011067
The challenge there is that none of the other TMNT clones did even half as well. No one was interested in ending the show when there was little guarantee that they could make another that would be as profitable. Street Sharks, Biker Mice, and Cow Boys were modest at best. Meanwhile Power Rangers was taking over as the biggest toy based boys action series.

>>149011067
>Probably wold have been for the best if the show just ended around 1993.
Season 7 ended with the Technodrome permanently removed as a threat and Shredder's gang effectively neutered. Fine place to end it in my books.

>>149008499
I feel like Rise of the TMNT is this sort of thing. Taking the colorful off the wall fucking nonsense game art and turning it into a show. But much more modern anime inspired than the early 90s fantasy book cover art based poster like this.

>>149005177 (OP)
Looked too much like they were lazily trying to imitate X-Men. Even Garfield and Friends made a better X-Men parody than this.

>>149006881
You mean how we saw them on game and toy art and wished the cartoon was more like?

This was my experience as a 90s kid anyway, somehow I missed the red sky shit but watched the 80d episodes and it was weird to me since my main TamNT fandom came from the 1990 film, toys, and video games where they always looked that way and I was pissed whenever they had pupils in actuality, but even the movie was very mature compared to the cartoon and I hated the sequels

>>149005712
That's not really surprising for a Saturday morning cartoon. They typically ran 8-12 episodes long.
People were too used to the third season being the main one everyone saw since that was on afternoon syndication for years.

>>149011110
Technodrome was an annoying gimmick since they fell on keep season long plots based around it being stuck somewhere and out of power and each episode was Shredder trying to steal power for it somewhere.

>>149005177 (OP)
It feels weird for a show like this to have actual status quo shifting serious arcs

I like it! S1,S2,S7,S8-10
It was a nice change and I thought the tone was great and still do.

>>149005177 (OP)
Season 1 was far more "mature" then the Red Sky episodes were. Looked a lot better too.

It started out decently enough, with making Shredder and co more serious villains, Channel 8 getting blown up, the public turning against the turtles, etc.
But once Dregg's goofy ass entered the picture, it all went down hill. Also Carter was lame.

>>149011430
It's funny cause Dregg is more in line with the actual comic book themes. IIRC the creators actually hate Shredder who in the comics was pretty small time, only appearing like once and once more as a zombie worm or something

>>149011558
That's why they stuck shredder with Krang. By himself he's a small time nobody. Just some ninja guy. With Krang he gets lasers, vehicles, armies of robot ninjas, and mutant mooks.

>>149012087
Even in season 2 Shredder was kind of pathetic. Roaming around with just Baxter as a lackey and he was usually outgunned anytime he met the turtles.

Modern TMNT now.

>>149012096
I kinda like the idea of Shredder being stranded without resources and having to re-establish himself without Krang and his tech.

>>149005206
>closer to the original comics
Oh, so did the Fugitoid, Karai, Renet alongside the countless other character that had been ignored until that point finally show up and the series became more introspective with bittersweet notes?
...
No? They actually just made up bullshit characters like before and toned down the shitty humor but otherwise kept the same shitty production going? That's a shame.

>>149011558
It's not that they hate Shredder per se, it's just that they told the story they wanted with him and wanted to move on. The TMNT comic wasn't really about a single driving storyline for the most part, the turtles were a vehicle for whatever stories they wanted to tell. By the end of the first volume , the Turtles make a truce with the Foot clan since with Shredder now dead, and the Japanese foot branch taking control of the NYC one, there's no reason for them to fight anymore. The original two participants of the feud were long dead.

>>149012096
At least hanging with Baxter there is that excuse for him to have some lasers and robots. Just not good ones like Krang had.

>>149012372
Modern comic is just a weird gay fanfic after they decided that being a mutant is their new metaphor for being lgbt. And there is never any fighting in any issue ever.

Does the Saturday Morning Adventures series continues Red Sky timeline?

>>149011430
https://youtu.be/NV9Q1QG3VWo

>>149012372
They tried that exactly once 3 years ago and even then it got a resounding shrug. Even the queers didn't notice that.

>>149014374
Only fujoshi care this.

>>149014469
Fujoshi want gay brotherly incest between the turtles. It's all they ever make. None of them care about Jennika's love life.

>>149015060
I mean, can you really blame them?

>>149012642
eventually, everything becomes some kind of metaphor for being gay

>>149012096
>>149012625
Baxter was only around for about six episodes (four being the Eye of Sarnoth arc) before he got bugged up and Shredder made Bebop and Rocksteady his full-time minions instead.

>>149012705
No.

>>149012087
>>149012625
I liked the 2012 series for separating Shredder from Krang and had them switch as the villain of the episode.

A classic 80s shredder with Baxter being his goto minion that makes his robots and weapons can work since that was also done in 2012 and 2003.

>>149008499
The Revenge of Shredder game did the best job of hitting that sweet spot of using the bright toony 87 characters but going slightly more serious mode with it like season 1. But not full on edgy wannabe anime like the red skies and 03 show. People want all the colorful mutants and over the top plots, but without the super whimsical cowabunga stuff.

>>149012594
It's kind of a problem because that is the an favorite villain. No other villain really seems to grab audiences half as much,

>>149015427
Baxter should have stuck around to be minion #3. Bebop and Rocksteady are not really enough vs 4 turtles. Shredder should have had 4 minions to counter them. Maybe add Leatherhead too as #4

>>149015586
2003 TMNT is just a kids show pretending to look like edgy. Even SAINW episodes is pointless because it doesn't matter which turtle would be absent. In any case the team fall apart without any brother. And yet, it doesn't do anything with Donnie's character, it just pull him into fighting Chrell in goofy over the top spike costume while all others die from simple Karai-bots.

>>149012519
You've misread what I was saying, anon. I wasn't saying those later seasons were closer to the original comics, I was suggesting that just ending the show and THEN doing something closer to the original comics might have been a better idea. But >>149011098 is probably right that no matter what a relaunch did, there was little chance of it being as successful as the used to be, no matter how much Mirage purists like yourself are still seething about it.

>>149012594
In fairness, the cartoon was launched around the time the comics were only up to Shredder returning and the Foot running the TMNT out of New York, and before the reveal it was a clone Shredder. So you can see why the cartoon had him as a recurring main villain.

>>149015205
It's because they want to be X-Men. Modern X-Men is a metaphor for being gay, and having a large 'mutant community' that wants to live out and proud in public and be celebrated for being mutant, with the power fantasy of everyone who doesn't like you being weak, pathetic nazis you can easily beat up, but they're also somehow an existential threat you must destroy. The people making the IDW TMNT comics wanted to be more like modern X-Men than like TMNT, and that's why you have the Mutant Town.

>>149015586
I'd probably put down money for Red Sky DLC for Shredder's Revenge desu,

>>149018336
The game picks up after Season 10 with the Technodrome being an abandoned wreck and Krang's android being disassembled and scattered about after it was used to defeat Dregg. I'd say that's as much of a connection to Red Sky as it needs.

FW Donnie is actually most aggressive incarnation of Donnie.

Modern TMNT has suffered from flanderization for too long. Donnie is skinny and wears glasses because he is nerd and love tech.

>>149011158
I never liked the cartoon all that much but I loved the paintings and off model versions you’d see all over the place.
Same with He-Man, how could Filmation compete with Bob Larkin and Earl Norem?

>>149019533
This is one thing Laird fought against. He refused to let them deviate the turtles body types too much, because they were all meant to have trained the same and be as dedicated. Donnie's intelligence was a bonus to him being a skilled martial artist, not an alternative.

>>149011098
but in hindsight MMPR aged like yak milk

I still love TMNT and it was my obsession as a kid, but I'll be the first to admit the franchise doesn't really have much good media.
>1987 cartoon kind of sucks
>2003 cartoon is boring
>rise is complete shit
>comics are mostly boring
I would say i mostly like the movies. To me the 1990 movie is peak turtles. Absolutely love it. Secret of the ooze is pretty bad but entertaining. I might be the only person who actually likes 3. TMNT is really good even though it looks like shit now. The live action movies are complete ass. Mutant mayhem was good.
It's hard out here for a turtles fan. I never watched the 2012 show, how is it?

>>149020381
1987 has good moments. If anything, watch the first season but you have to wade through a LOT of crap past that to find the good stuff. Is there a definitive episode guide anywhere?
I think 2003 is pretty good really but suffers from a slow pace. The Turtles Forever crossover movie is really good once you get past the OG voice cast being recast with soundalikes.
People used to really love 2012. But they seem to have turned on it. I'll admit I haven't watched it.
Agreed the 1990 movie might be the best single piece of Turtles media. It does a great job distilling the movies and cartoon into something new.

>>149005177 (OP)
s'okay