I feel like the whole shift with the Clone High revive is a perfect encapsulation of what's wrong with modern cartoon writers, but I can't exactly pinpoint it into words. Is it that modern writers can't write POVs outside of their own? Is it that their view of the world has gotten so jaded, they mistake Abe's funny ignorance for maliciousness?

>>149034597 (OP)
>Is it that modern writers can't write POVs outside of their own? Is it that their view of the world has gotten so jaded, they mistake Abe's funny ignorance for maliciousness?
It's both. Like it's literally a combination of people being way too fucking serious and also struggling to understand things outside of their own perspectives. The modern world is highly alienated and untrusting on an individual level, it's basically the inverse of what culture was like in the 90s and 00s.

>>149034597 (OP)
Woke Columbus was the only funny part of the remake

>>149034597 (OP)
It's partly "we can't write POVs outside our own" but especially "we refuse to learn more about what it is we've signed on for"

Abe is funny because he's meant to be a satirical take on the 90s teen drama protagonist who is oblivious to love when it's right in front of him but will pine after a girl out of his league. Him being a moron and a dick at times is supposed to be the point. I was nine when I first watched Clone High and I thought Abe was hilarious because I had seen too many episodes and movies about characters just like Abe.

The newer writers did not grow up with 90s teen dramas that Clone High was taking the piss out of. They did not WANT to watch these things or even understand what made Clone High so funny. Most writers entering Hollywood come from very spoiled/privileged lifestyles that don't encourage them to be active learners or readers, so when you get them in the writers' room, what we get isn't

>how can I create more of the IP and stay true to what it is while putting some of my own personal spin in it

Instead what we get is:

>I'm going to do what I want and plug in what I want to see (even if it doesn't gel with the IP) and do, I don't want to make something consistent because that's too much work and how dare you ask me to do that

>>149034597 (OP)
The fuck-up is that the new writers made a parody of 2010s teen dramas but all of the Clone High fans stopped watching teen dramas in the early 2000s.

I hate that every main character needs to be a role model now, jerks and idiots are much funnier

>>149034638
this
I watched both seasons out of obligation of seeing a good friend through his final painful moments

Something I've noticed about the tiktok fandom that led to Nu-Clone High is that they considered what JFK did at the end as 'character development'.
Like, they couldn't comprehend the idea that the womanizer character would tell an emotionally vulnerable girl what she wants to hear to get his dick wet.
He basically smiles at the camera and announces himself as the stereotypical "complication in the relationship" twist and it still somehow flew over their heads.
The ending of season one is him laying back on the pillow smug and self-satisfied while everyone else is in a state of shock and anxiety, how do you fucking miss that?

>>149035029
It's not that they need to be role models, but that they need to be "complex, three-dimensional, believable characters". Joan can't just be a love interest turned on its head, she's gotta have a character arc where you can see her personality shifting through the journey. I guess episodic just isn't good enough anymore. We gotta have Master Shake actually develop as a person and have all his wild antics become pathetic over time because the reset button doesn't exist anymore.

>>149035200
Anon you know as well as I do these kids didn't watch the show outside of funny meme clips

>>149035230
Anon, I'm a zoomer who watched the show in 2016 and even I got it.

If anything, I'd say the Clone High reboot is a case study in how fandom culture can be pure fucking cancer for whatever series it's based around. Fandoms demand their ships, headcanons, lore and all these other things a pure comedy show like Clone High wasn't meant to support.

>>149034761
>"we refuse to learn more about what it is we've signed on for"
Well shit I'm writing a story that covers some of the same beats, taking a bit of the piss out of 90s teen drama, (sort of more influenced by shojo shit but there's a lot of overlap thematically) and now my imposter syndrome is making me wonder if I've seen enough
I've seen Clueless, thought it was pretty good, seen Sabrina, thought it was great, but I'd rather not watch gay shit like Dawson's Creek
What else should I be looking at, Sweet Valley High or something?

>>149035389
>but I'd rather not watch gay shit like Dawson's Creek
Dawson's Creek is basically required viewing if you want to do a story like that.

>>149035389
>>149035411
The zeitgeist has also changed way too much to properly take the piss out of something like Dawson's Creek and it still be funny.
It feels like no one has the balls to take the piss out of current teen dramas because the core joke behind making fun of them would be to point out they're typically trauma porn.

>>149035411
Well shit
>>149035455
>It feels like no one has the balls to take the piss out of current teen dramas because the core joke behind making fun of them would be to point out they're typically trauma porn.
Family Guy did it a couple years ago
Wasn't funny, but they did it

>>149034597 (OP)
Millennial Writing

>>149034597 (OP)
Okay. So years ago when I was just graduating highschool I used to help out at a maid cafe for a friend with the staff as you can imagine being mostly girls.

This was around the time a Clone High revival was announced but zero other info or images was shown as it was in early pre-production. We were having a conversation about it since one of them asked what the show was and I explained to a couple of them the gist: A parody of teen drama's like Degrassi that made fun of those old sitcom tropes with exaggerated characters that mocked how dumb and selfish they all were. As an example I used the JFK/Ponce episode and how it made fun off random never seen before characters to kill off to artificially make drama.

One of the girls who actually did see Clone High before somes up and tells me "Well, it's a bit MORE than that" and tries to explain how despite being a comedy we are supposed to care about this characters far more beyond the surface level and it wasn't neccesarilly making fun of teen drama's and she actually cried watching the Ponce episode. I disagreed with her but like, we we just talking shit, so I just shrugged and said 'Well, that's a intresting perception".

What I never would've have figured until the show itself comes out is that those are the very people that ended up writing the revival. People who sincerly had the whole joke of the show over their heads and saw something "more" than it was and then finally having the chance very awkwardly warping it into something that was never there. It's made by people who used to run the Coffee Shop AU's in tumblr.

And you know, I'm not an asshole. Let people like whatever. But there is a reason the Coffee Shop AU or whatever fanfiction you have ONLY works as fanfiction.

>>149034761
I wonder if it's a combination of narcissism and frustration within the industry. These people do not want to work on endless streams of revivals and reboots, so they just twist and turn it into something they DO want to work on. I think back to when Nico was sperging out about the Thundercats Reboot, and while he didn't actually work on the show, he had said something about the whole situation: "For the record, I watched the show and HATED it. THIS is perfect for a reboot". Implying it's something fresh, new, different-- you know, the ILLUSION of a new IP.

And I know that's not how everyone on staff feels. But the people in charge (those developing the reboot + official showrunners) do seem like they're very unhappy that all their pitches keep getting rejected, so they use these projects as a skin suit for what they've wanted to do.

>>149035601
>Maid cafe
Fake

>>149035601
>retarded tv tropers running the entire show
that pretty much sums up the entire fucking industry for the past decade

>>149034597 (OP)
What hurts the most is that Erica Rivinoja actually wrote on the OG Clone High. It's not like Lord & Miller got some rando millennial outsider to run the new seasons. Rivinoja was put in charge, and she failed with flying colours.

>>149035601
>People who sincerly had the whole joke of the show over their heads and saw something "more" than it was and then finally having the chance very awkwardly warping it into something that was never there.
Ouch. I've been there. Real easy to overinvest, especially in stuff where there is another layer (the joke) and you're not in on it.

>>149035787
There was also a returning writer, Judah Miller. I assume he was the only other crew member willing to come back because all the remaining writers haven't worked in the industry for a long time, and his brother is probably blacklisted forever.

>>149035758
>Implying it's something fresh, new, different-- you know, the ILLUSION of a new IP.
You are too stupid to understand that he is just and asshole shitposting because being dogpilled by stupid complains.

>>149034597 (OP)
This shit was so embarrassing I never got around to watching the final season, doesn't help that it released all in one day but still

>>149035758
Not to sound Jewish but why do you guys keep on bringing up frankly old ass tweets Nico posted about ruining childhoods? How can you be so sure he still holds these sentiments? Because you don't like how he looks? Because you don't like his cartoons? You sound about as petty as he did if not more

>>149036745
A lot of people on /co/ are weirdly stuck in the mid 2010s. It's why we still get Dobson threads.

Here's a review of Clone high calling it mid, so I'm not sure if I can trust you guys with all the yapping you do about why modern writers are all selfish assholes who never care about others. I actually know a guy who likes the reboot more than the OG show because it does more with the characters and the story besides parody outdated tropes and teen dramas

>>149036764
They really are ride or die for their initial feelings, huh?

>>149036768
Fuck forgot to post the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVQAb2JIB4Q

>>149034597 (OP)
Why the hell didn't they take the "this my show, not yours" route with the writers, and pull rank on them?

>>149036768
>mid
Why are zoomers so afraid to say that things are outright bad?

>>149036818
Because sometimes things are neither good or bad, just in the middle, because the pros and cons end up being equal in amount that you can't in good faith call something good or bad because you feel that conflicted about something. I dunno, just a thought

I liked them more than the og group

>>149036818
You've never watched something and had no strong feelings about it?
And I've actually seen the opposite way more where they think something is either the best thing ever or absolute shit with no middle ground

>>149036818
>Why are zoomers so afraid to say that things are outright bad?
Most people aren't like a Youtube review where things are either "the greatest thing ever made" or "the worst thing ever"

>>149035601
I had this a bit with the Adam West Batman movie as a kid. I was too young to see the comedy present in the story and dialogue so I took it as a very serious superhero story. I remember thinking Joker had some electrical powers due to his buzzer gag, since I didn't know what that was at the time.

Point is, I wasn't emotionally mature and well read enough to perceive the film in the correct way, much like your friend.

>>149035601
What's piqued my interest was that a core joke of the original Clone High was "Teen dramas insult the audiences intelligence by using emotionally manipulative tropes and artificial drama as a cheap way of getting engagement without offering actual substance."
And the audience fell for the parody versions of those same cheap tricks

>>149035601
>One of the girls who actually did see Clone High before somes up and tells me "Well, it's a bit MORE than that" and tries to explain how despite being a comedy we are supposed to care about this characters far more beyond the surface level and it wasn't neccesarilly making fun of teen drama's and she actually cried watching the Ponce episode.
I'll be honest, I would have been that asshole who would call her retarded.

>>149034597 (OP)
>Is it that modern writers can't write POVs outside of their own?
Yes but also with the thought process of anyone with a POV different from their own is evil wrong and bad, and anyone listening to it must be just as evil and bad.

>>149036897
I hate Harriet's design so goddamn much

>>149036818
>>149036834
Mid is just the new meh.

>>149036897
>AYO

>>149035601
>and she actually cried watching the Ponce episode.
You are lying. This can not be a real human.

>>149034597 (OP)
>were like
These aren't writers, period.

>Rivinoja
What the fuck is this? What is this pajeet? This pajeet doesn't even know English and writes worse than a 90s journalist.

>>149035029
But they're not role models. That's the thing, they're not even role models cause actual role models are an ideal which these retarded gen-zers reel in disgust because they think it's "unrealistic/unachievable" due to how lazy and socially incompetent they are.
Never have I ever seen such an antisocial generation full of cowards, malice, petiness, hellbent on revenge on everyone. I've seen rednecks and religious fanatics more forgiving and eloquent than these entitled anxious creatures ready to freak out at the drop of a needle.

>>149035787
Why does it speak like a mentally retarded 2015 gen-Zombie pseudo intellectual then? is the new generation making older generations just as dumb as them?

>>149035900
What did his brother do?
>>149036764
Society itself hasnt moved past the 2010s. Cartoon Media doesnt even get made much anymore and the culture war shit didnt end and stay in the 2010s like it was meant to have had-the 2020s are just the 2010s 2.0

Also is anyone else having weird "connection error" issue when trying to post with an image?

>>149034761
>>149035758
I'm "surprised" they're not getting murdered in the streets, but cartoons are watched by children who are too dumb to recognize someone and put poison in their drink over a cartoon.

Back in the day you had proper writer's schools that taught you how to write. These retards are incapable of writing fucking basics while pretending they know advanced stuff and spouting diarrhea. They're the most incompetent kissed in the ass talentless hacks of retards I've ever seen. They were obvious nepotism hires.

>>149040924
>I'm "surprised" they're not getting murdered in the streets, but cartoons are watched by children who are too dumb to recognize someone and put poison in their drink over a cartoon.
I am absolutely shocked by the lack of murders against anyone lately in entertainment within the past ten years with how much hacks have fucked over franchises and the rage that people have against them. You would think by now someone wouldve tried to shoot KK for what shes done to star wars or have Kevin getting bludgeoned for killing he man, or the voltron reboot writers getting raped by some fujo in a strap on for not making her gay ship canon. But no, nothing. Zoomers are all talk no action just like the /v/irgins during gaymergate

>>149040487
>t. hasn't read youtube comments nor reddit in at least a few years

>>149035455
>trauma porn.
Que es?

>>149040958
The music industry and concerts are a trillion times more dangerous, you hear so many musicians getting killed over some rabid fan. Meanwhile you never hear somebody get killed at a Star Trek convention or at comic con. Geeks just don't deal in killings.
Not sure what are concerts like now and how are music fans now.

>>149035601
I shudder to think what kind of parents they had that led to such delusions and nobody smacking them over the head and yelling NO. IDIOT. IDIOT, HOW CAN YOU THINK THAT? No internet for a week. Fucking retard do you want to get pump & dumped and pregnant? fucking retard. NO INTERNET ALLOWED. I really wonder what the fuck leads to this coddled up delusional "You don't understand me" mentality. It's like they never had parents to begin with. It's like they never got bullied in school and beaten the living shit out of them.
>>149035519
More like gen-Zers.
You'd think after getting fed on radical and X-TREME writing they'd at least TRY to copy that.
And I constantly see these STeven Universe and Adventure Time loving retards refusing to watch 2000s cartoons or pretending the 2000s were garbage compared to 2010s and how 2010s are superior to anythign roflmao.
The 2010s are like the 70s of cartoons and a very warped version of the 60s flower power bullshit but instead of pretending to promote peace and love it instead promotes "I WANT TO RUIN MY BODY BY BECOMING A TRANNY, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND ME *Ropes a few years later from all those imbalanced chemicals* it's like some very very fucked up gothpunkmetal culture paired with the cheesiness of the hippy craze, but with a very obvious aura of pretentiousness and entitled revenge. Passive aggressive entitled cowards is what I'd call it.

>>149037444
witnessed

Every single problem child and arrogant kid who got his ass kissed and refused to learn and get a proper diploma?
That child who his father tried to teach to fix a fucking lightbulb but he refused?
That child who her mother tried to dress correctly to stop looking like a retarded rapping whore with an abysmal body?
All those rapping goth-loving and special eds school going autistics? that's who's writing your films, cartoons, comic books. The rich are not exermpt from the cultural brainwashing and moral decay and degeneracy. Browsing the internet does not give you real experiences, it's why voice actors are sucking dick so much right now, they aren't even exercising their everyday voices anymore.
And the people who hire them? Just as pathetic and mentally retarded. Their fathers who actually knew what they were doing are dead and left it with a bunch of pussy retards who want nothing to do with their fathers' jobs. Hiring a fucking retard in 2008 for CN who hates cartoons, airing live-action shows on the fucking CARTOONnetwork channel. Then Disney and Nickeledeon following suit like a bunch of standardless sheeple.

>>149035389
You owe to yourself to watch Dawson's Creek.
Even if it isn't as relevant to this day, it is the distilled essence of what you are hoping to parody.

>>149041509
And the ones who actually have talent in them get treated like absolute dirt because they're not jewish enough or young enough to suck dick.

>>149034597 (OP)
>People hate Abe
>Lets just pivot entirely instead of focusing on what people liked about the show when Tik Tok zoomers revived it
>Don't even bother trying to write Ghandi
It just seems lazy. It's infinitely easier to throw out old characters and plots to move forward than attempting to alter your current ones to be better.

>>149040823
>Never have I ever seen such an antisocial generation full of cowards, malice, petiness, hellbent on revenge on everyone
The zoomers are insufferable, but it's the millenials who let things get this bad. They're the ones writing cartoons and Marvel movies. Zoomers at least have the excuse of not knowing a world before it went to shit. Millenials have no such excuse.

>>149035601
> . People who sincerly had the whole joke of the show over their heads and saw something "more" than it was and then finally having the chance very awkwardly warping it into something that was never there.

Solid insight. It also ironically applies to even the idea of remakes.

Original show did everything it needed to do. Maybe not wanted to do, i.e. fanfiction. Maybe at most another 3,4, or 5 episodes before the story goes stale and moldy.

In this way, I think most remakes are doomed. The main audience is half-nostalgic people who take it too seriously (and therefore want a remake) and then the other half who want to see what the fuss is... and get disappointed.

>>149041374
>Geeks just don't deal in killings.
And thats why they are cowards

>>149041509
> All those rapping goth-loving and special eds school going autistics?
This sentence sounds boomer-y

>>149041535
>GUISE IT'S DA JOOS FAULT
Lmao cope, nobody watched this. Even when they tried to lump it in with TTG, a lot of kids would change the channel right after the episode ended. You can blame that along with the fact that the creator wouldn't stop getting into petty arguments online while the show was airing for its cancellation.

>>149034761
I’m a zoomer (born in the year 2000) and even o knew about this shit and understood it mainly because he after the 90s these tropes were still extremely common, hell they’re still pretty common today. How oblivious to media does someone have to be to not know about this? Like I feel like the big issue is that they hire people that don’t actually understand shit about things like media. It honestly sounds like (and I’m being genuine no meme) media illiteracy.

for autists who like not-postmodern sociological papers, you may find

>sci-hub.ru / 10.2307 / 1982064

fun to read. good overlap with the mystery of why something exists even though it fails in its stated purpose

>>149041743
Shut the fuck up, gypsy. I hear your country getting bombed, go back there.

>>149041436
>More like gen-Zers.
Nope, it's millennials. Remember when the Saints Row reboot's head writer explicitly said it was a MILLENNIAL power fantasy? It's called Millennial Writing for a reason, and you trying to pin it all on zoomers is so transparent. Your generation sucks at writing, deal with it.
>>149041644
>Millenials have no such excuse.
Millennials coined "adulting" and using curse words in book titles to sound edgy. No credibility whatsoever. Picrel.

>>149035217
>It's not that they need to be role models, but that they need to be "complex, three-dimensional, believable characters". Joan can't just be a love interest turned on its head, she's gotta have a character arc where you can see her personality shifting through the journey. I guess episodic just isn't good enough anymore. We gotta have Master Shake actually develop as a person and have all his wild antics become pathetic over time because the reset button doesn't exist anymore.
Same type of autists want fucking Sonic of all things to be this serious character drama with therapy circles and lots and lots of crying, instead of simple adventure stories for all ages.

>>149034597 (OP)
Did they seriously unironically used the term "girl boss" in a positive way when describing their characters?
Man, almost every insulting phrase anti-leftist (not saying right wing, because it's a much bigger group than that) use seems to origin from the leftists themselves. Same with woke, "modern audience" or DEI.

>>149035787
This, Velma's writer (who had writing credit on The Office) and now the Doctor Who writer bungling new season really shows that just because someone wrote something good in the past doesn't mean they're still good.
Maybe it's George Lucas writing Prequels situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU-yi_W-n6U

>>149042213
I would call the term anti sjw rather then anti leftist tbqh

>>149042281
I hate how the guy who wrote all those edgy and cool doctor who episodes in the 2000s has now genuinely stated he wants the show to be infantilized down to being for 12 year olds and below. How the hell did the guy who wrote that era become suck a soified cuck is beyond me

>>149035601
this is like how younger people will make video essays missing the point of a show/movie. they'll take some parts literally and then read too deep into parts that don't warrant it. there are varying reports about how kids are borderline illiterate now and unable to appreciate figurative language. This is when stories are particularly codified and predictable too, they are almost formulaic and built off boilerplate.

I think the worse end of this is shortform content and hyper-literal, direct content being mixed with deep lore content that has cryptic meaning. They're not reading into these stories like English majors but as fans and the occasional TVTroper to codify it.

I saw a video essay where the narrator described Superjail! as taking place in a multiverse. It doesn't need a cosmology to explain it, it's best left unexplained, or merely as a cartoon world with very loose rules. Just take it for fun, but people can't do that. Smiling Friends maybe succeeds in how it doesn't worldbuild or drop lore and you can let your guard down with reading into it. Rick and Morty on the other hand confused audiences by sending mixed messages about wanting lore or fun episodic stuff, and then mocking fans for whichever they preferred anyway.

Maybe it coincides with social media, millennial and post-millennial narcissism, and whatever else Adam Curtis talks about in Century of the Self.

>>149034761
Expertly said.

How the fuck did zoomers even get through the original show if they didn't get anything out of Abe at all?
Most A-plots are focused on him, and most B-plots are focused on [REDACTED]. I don't really get why you'd say you want more if you didn't either side of the show.

>>149040845
Old people who really want young people to see them as peers do some embarrassing shit for approval.

>>149035601
>>What I never would've have figured until the show itself comes out is that those are the very people that ended up writing the revival
and these are the people who'd call you media illiterate for saying they missed the point

>>149042136
>>149042851
The modern obsession with youth culture is frankly psychotic.
Naturally it's a bad habit that started with the Baby Boomers and only got worse from there.

>>149042937
These are the same people who insist all art is subjective and all interpretations of a work are valid.

>>149036796
Lord and Miller are too busy with movies to actually give a shit

>>149035758
wasn't this dude begging for money for bills just a few weeks ago? Couldn't happen to a worse guy lmao

>>149039960
milk.

>>149036897
Who the hell is topher bus?

>>149039016
Also that anything less that seething hatred for (different thought) is just as bad as believing it yourself

>>149035601
So, what is this? The death of satire? Cause I thought we were in the era of "the death of earnest expression", but now it seems like nobody knows how to do either side.

>>149044730
chrisTOPHER columBUS

He wants to rebrand himself because his Columbus is controversial now and Topher wants to be cool.

>>149036745
>Because you don't like how he looks? Because you don't like his cartoons?
Because he said he likes to ruin shit other people like. Purposely.

And no, people like that don't change their mind when it comes to things like that. He 100% feels the same today and he did then.

>>149040958
Why the fuck would zoomers be the ones killing people who ruined reboots or star wars? They didnt grow up with the originals, they dont care about them. The people mad about it are millenials who are mad their childhood is getting ruined.

>>149045194
Tumblrina Zoomers loved the netflix voltron reboot despite not caring for the overall franchise and tons of zoomers who grew up watching the OT and seeing the prequels as they came out hated what the sequels

>>149041436
>taking away privileges because of bad media takes
i really hope you never have kids

>>149044924
puke. good thing this show only had one season.

>>149043541
>be nico
>hitch all your cartoons to internet famous voice actors hoping their fans will carry you
>date a much younger artist who openly wants to fuck mike stoklasa and get her to bankroll you
weird that nothing works out for him huh

>>149045850
>>date a much younger artist who openly wants to fuck mike stoklasa
Best RLM cast member is moving up in the world, it seems

G SPOT ROCKS THE G SPOT

G SPOT ROCKS THE G SPOT