>Been reading all the X-Men comics from the first to modern day
>This week hit the mid 2000's
>House of M was surprisingly short but fun, also began one writers fetish insert of underage alt girl who "knows stuff" thats worryingly blatant.
>Decimation was the most blatant and callous "noooo we need to kill off the next generation, the stuff i grew up with has to be the status quo eternally!" horseshit including moments like "we put 20 of the new x men on a bus and the purifiers blew it up with a rocket"
>But it introduces X-23, forgot she started as a cartoon OC like Harley Quinn
>Messiah Complex is around Marvel was in their full "constant multi book events daisy chained into each other" and you can tell its getting hard for writers to keep continuity with characters in different locations at the same time depending on book but the storys still neat
>Feels like it hits a new stride with Second Coming as new mutants are appearing and characters are doing all kinds of bullshit like Mr Sinister making a copy of london underground populated only by his clones
>Then 2011 hits and the Fox X Men films have a resurgence in the Macavoy/Fassbender era.
>Oops now inhumans are the new focus, almost all the mutants are dead again, their books are garbage like uncanny turning into dying magneto, psylocke, inverted sabretooth and everyones favourite monet doing fuck all
>Get ready for the inhumans movie, wait i mean tv series, meanwhile all the remaining popular x men are in stuff like avengers now and all their villains are too. Please stop buying X books we need Fox to sell us the rights for the MCU
>Currently up to the 2013-2017 pre Krakoa era and its straight up miserable
>All this got in the longrun was Ms.Marvel and Kamalas now a mutant anyway and i couldn't tell you if inhumans even exist anymore.

So how bad was it to read X Men books week to week/monthly in this period? was it actually worse than being a modern amazing spiderbuck reader?

>>149108875 (OP)
>>Currently up to the 2013-2017 pre Krakoa era and its straight up miserable
Yeah that's gonna stay rough throughout, you're only gonna get more of the same until the 2019 relaunch.

>>149108875 (OP)
Yeah, I quit x-men completely back when Old Logan was hanging around for no reason. Only came back during Krakoa which had it rough spots but it was one of the best mutant eras in years

>>149108875 (OP)
In the short term AND the long term it was worse for the Inhumans than for the X-Men. The absolute worst it got for the X-Men was two (2) significant characters getting temporarily killed, and the line getting reduced down to five (5) monthly ongoings plus various minis, plus Deadpool if you want to count his books (and scaling down the size of the line was long overdue, a lot of the secondary books hadn't been selling so well in years), and Marvel doing another mutant extinction story because they heard fans loved the last one so they're going to keep making more of them.

Meanwhile Marvel tried to turn the Inhumans into something they're not, most of the Inhumans anyone actually knew were lost in a sea of OCs nobody cared about, Medusa got the full girlboss treatment, Karnak got the "Warren Ellis Character" treatment, and X-Men fandom got so angry and threatened by the Inhumans that Marvel have largely embargoed them ever since, just to appease a fandom that isn't anywhere near as big as it used to be, but is vocal as hell.

>So how bad was it to read X Men books week to week/monthly in this period? was it actually worse than being a modern amazing spiderbuck reader?
Still being a Spider-Man reader means tolerating the hero being treated as a humiliated cuck and a loser, with various 'replacement' characters all being pushed as superior to him, it means living in false hope one day Marvel will relent and fix everything they've done. Still being a X-Men fan either means being a characterfag or waifufag who just can't quit no matter how bad things get, or it means being one of those 'mutant race' self-inserters who embraced the X-Men embracing their villains' worldview and basically becoming antagonists to the rest of the Marvel Universe. Both fandoms are like battered wives who won't leave because they think they can change him and he won't do it again.

Though this thread is meant to be about comics, anons will still cry like babies about MVC anyway.

>>149108875 (OP)
it was retarded of them to ever consider they could replace the X-Men with Inhumans. like genuinely I cannot fathom suits at Marvel thinking it was ever gonna work at all.

>>149109089
it was never a real long term plan. They just wanted to devalue the x mens pop culture footprint long enough to spook fox into selling.

>>149109097
I always assumed this too, but people have told me otherwise and I couldn't buy it. I doubt even that plan worked either, I think Fox fumbling their own movies and the MCU growing unexpectedly large worked in their favor but I don't think the Inhumans ever really diluted the X-Men's cultural impact in any noticeable way.

>>149109089
Letting the Inhumans remain their own thing in their own unique niche of Marvel, and just trying to do one good book, there's no reason that wouldn't have worked and had one solid book that sold reasonably well enough. If Feige hadn't cockblocked an Inhumans movie, and made it while the MCU was so popular that normies were flocking to every new movie, there's no reason that wouldn't have worked to Ant-Man tier success at the absolute worst. Trying to immediately turn them into a franchise with multiple books was a retarded idea, and trying to forcibly turn them into replacement X-Men at a time when the actual X-Men were in decline was a retarded idea. It made X-Men fandom so mad they still can't get over it, and if everyone else wasn't interested in actual X-Men, why would they be interested in something else doing the same thing?

>>149109009
Honestly the most baffling thing about the From the Ashes relaunch is how it basically just rolls back the status quo to where it was under Bendis. Because like OP said, that was a miserable time. I refuse to believe there was no better way to relaunch the X-Men line.

>>149108875 (OP)
In retrospect, X-men has never been better. Claremont is boring and most of the stories are slop. Mutants are annoying. Inhumans are better ? No, especially this cynical takeover, but X-men aren't much better

>>149109152
If they want to shake it up do something crazy like have something make all the psychics flashbang everyone and give them amnesia and scatter them around the world. Put a new spin on the original nature versus nurture idea.

>>149109117
The pop culture footprint stuff really was more of a movie thing than anything else, and largely Fox's own fault. Comics have such a small audience of under 100K people that whatever was going on at Marvel had no real wider pop-culture impact, even the push to keep X-Men out of merch didn't really last that long, the complaining about it has lasted years longer by now. Fox doing R-rated Marvel movies with Logan and Deadpool got them success with critics and audiences, but they never really had the huge mainstream family audience Spider-Man, Batman and the MCU had, and by Apocalypse even the critics were calling out how every X-Men movie was a variation on the same plot.

Disney is treating X-Men like a 90s nostalgia brand because that's the last generation it really had that noticeable cultural impact on. Later generations mostly just know Wolverine and Deadpool. Hasbro keep going back to the Jim Lee X-Men designs because that's all they can consistently sell, Marvel Legends X-Men waves with more modern designs tend to bomb.

>>149109152
It was so strange watching Krakoa-era fans sperging out and tardraging about the idea of X-Men rolling the status quo back to the 80s or 90s when X-Men was so popular, only to watch Marvel instead go back to the 2010s Bendis era.

I suspect it's a combination of everyone who works at Marvel treating the moment when Quesada became EIC as Year Zero and having no regard for anything earlier except origin stories, plus X-Men fandom having a lot of Bendis apologists who remain really enthusiastic about that era, God help them.

>>149109237

>a lot of Bendis apologists who remain really enthusiastic about that era, God help them.

I realized the other day we’re a few years out from people who nostalgically love and are influenced by his Avengers writing comics and it’s going to be a rough time

>>149109276
Hopefully the people influenced by Bendis' Avengers and Millar's Ultimates are only a short blip before we start getting writers who discovered the Avengers through the MCU and EMH. But even a short blip could do a lot of damage.

>>149109077
This

>>149109307
Millar's ultimate already influenced the comics and movies.

>>149109367
Mostly in surface level ways. If people start writing Hulk, Hank Pym, or Wanda and Pietro in ways that are influenced by Ultimates, those characters would be in serious trouble.

>>149109384
>Hulk

rapey meathead is fun even moore Hyde is that way

>Pym

I defend how he is written by Millar, much more interesting than the 616 character

>Wanda and Pietro

I agree, not much characters, more like a joke. They're never taken seriously in general. With Vision and Wanda's relationship also being taken as a joke

>>149109077
no jean, YOU are gay

>>149108875 (OP)
Most of the shit you mentioned is irrelevant to the Inhumans push and has more to do with Grant Morrison fucking up X-Men and by extension Marvel by creating too many mutants to the point they would have to be drawn in the backgrounds of other books.
House of M was Marvel putting the genie back in the bottle and limit mutants to named characters

>>149108875 (OP)
Totally misleading cover image.The Inhumans were never trying to kill the mutants. And no not destroying the future immediately so mutants would not die of the miscat they would deal with is not a genocidal action against mutants especially when the Inhumans were dealing and saving the mutants from the Mist and they will not die on a regular basis after the mess became poisonous to mutants.

>>149110599
Man, it badass when Dazzler beat the shit out Black Bolt

>>149110814
What does that statement have to do with my comment that you linked it to?

>>149110478
Morrison thing was self contained you meant Bendis

Imagine if it worked and they got like a gotg type movie that solidified them. I’d be crying to sleep to this day

>>149108875 (OP)
Very bad.

Krakoa was a good concept and I'm tired of people pretending it was not. removing Hickman before he could finish the plot was Marvel's biggest fumble, and other writers not understanding the memo is unironically the root cause of why retards online now think a mutant ethnostate is a good idea, when the whole point of the Krakoa era was to show why it's not a good idea

>>149109532

>>149109117
NTA but I saw it more as a psyop against the executives. You gotta keep in mind that most shareholders and executives and boardmembers are hyper isolated for various reasons, often on purpose by underlings, because they ultimately do not have *time* or the skillset and context to understand the media shit they own or oversee in detail, hence why middle management and isolated fiefdom office politics consistently becomes a cancer for companies.

It used to be though that if one of them cared a bit, he'd have to knuckle down and clear a few hours from his schedule, maybe even a couple days, to drive down to the office crackhouse the creatives worked in and maybe read some news or periodicals he ordered ahead of time [after hunting them down] to try and figure out what beyond raw numbers his company is even doing.

Now though if the urge strikes him, twitterfaggotry and google slgorithms
he probably isn't aware his company and every other company involved is paying millions to have astroturfed and manipulated lulls him into complacency. What would be step one [Hmmm, I'll look up my IP, get a finger on the pulse there just incase it's relevant to the numbers on my charts] now takes like 5 seconds and all the information is almost certainly skewed.

And if you can fuck with that, which Marvel in particular has made an artform out of for smokescreening shit to their own execs, you can fuck with what he's gonna do about it.

If our Foxfag executive sees the numbers have shifted and asks "Don't we own X-Men? Aren't they popular all the time? My kid liked them growing up." and takes five seconds to google at the time the Inhuman push was happening, or even if the fucking social media fagmachine has already cottoned on to his deal and decides to bombard him with it of its own accord, then he sees like 65893 astroturfed, curated bot accounts and fagbrigades shitting and cumming over the Inhumans and how the X-Men aren't popular anymore to push his decisions.

>>149110831
Read Inhumans vs X-Men and find out.
>>149110861
No Morrison, and there are no self contained Marvel Comics it's a shared universe, Bendis was just Quesada's hatchetman tasked with cleaning up the mess

>>149108875 (OP)
>So how bad was it to read X Men books week to week/monthly in this period?

Put it this way, the period between Bendis' final issue and Hickman's first? Interest was so low that the main two X-Men books were going below 50,000 orders an issue. Like I think one issue hit 34,000 orders.

>>149111614
I believe it. It also explains why there's still blatant shills who still go around here and outside of here to downplay what happened during the X-Men/Inhumans stuff during the 2010s because if someone in executive circles catches on, they'll start wondering if other moves are fabricated by Disney/Marvel

>>149109532
Sure thing, midwit

>>149109097
I wanna imagine they had a similar plan for Spider-Man too but Sony shot themselves in the foot far quicker than any Marvel executive could pull off the psyop

>>149110814
No it wasn't, Black Bolt should beat the shit out of Dazzler and Emma without using his voice at all. It's pure horseshit

>>149109276
>>149109307
The problem I have with this theory is that there aren't as many people reading comics in the 00s as there were in the 90s or before, and while Bendis' USM does well in TPB form, I don't get the feeling his Avengers sells as well as that--case in point is that in the 2010s when the Avengers movies were big. In theory it should've consistently boosted his Avengers TPB sales up during that decade, but it didn't.

>>149111920
They probably had that plan in case Sony didn't play ball with them in the early 2010s, regarding the merchandise rights.

>>149111975
Stop lying, this is the best page featuring any Inhuman ever

>>149108875 (OP)
Decimation was done because Morrison's run had ballooned the mutant population to the low millions at least worldwide. That takes away from the X-Men's core concept (more than being an openly-known school and base for the X-Men where hundreds of mutants operate in dozens of super-teams).

Who'd done what and who was on whose side had got muddied and confused, so they chose to kill off most mutants after House of M and start over. It didn't work because it became a pity party where characters were just basically screaming about it over and over for years and x-fags were blaming Wanda (and not Magneto n' Charles who were actually in her head forcing her to rewrite reality into the House of M, a fascistic ethnostate much like the one Magneto had turned Genosha into before Charles' sister destroyed it). Because nobody even wanted to talk about Onslaught at that stage, nobody ever pushed back on the fanwank that Wanda was responsible (and not basically holding Onslaught off on her own, since Onslaught is just Magneto and Xavier's minds together).

Within 3 years the X-Men were not only rediscovering mutants at an alarming rate (in particular Vulcan, the mysterious 3rd Summers brother, at which time you can literally see Scott get mindbroken and become a massive racist asshole) but still screaming about how hard they had it because of Decimation. They lost all other characterisation and simply became whiners parroting Magneto's politics, abandoning former members (like Jubilee, who was 16 and an orphan but no longer a mutant).

The new mutants appearing is just what writers do. It's what led to the untenable numbers of mutants under Morrison (though he wasn't the first). If anything it's embarrassing that the X-Men, who have a machine built specifically to detect mutants, couldn't detect all these mutants like Sinister's clones, but maybe the X-Men were more focused on detecting humans to have murdered by X-Force. Don't get me started on Bishop.

>>149112317
wait what the fuck are Dazzler's powers again?

what is the x-men a allegory for again?

>>149113041
Anything they need to be for whichever story.

>>149112495
She converts sound into light energy.
And she uses that light to do basically anything.

>>149112378
>Decimation was done because Morrison's run had ballooned the mutant population to the low millions at least worldwide.
That was basically an non-issue because a lot of Mutants died on Genosha in the second number of his run.
That was a cope that people kept parroting on forums after Decimation.

>>149109089
As I understand it was Isaac Perlmutter who pushed for all of this and he never read a comic in his life. to him telling marvel to switch from X-Men to Inhumans was just telling a toothpaste company to focus on cinnamon flavor instead of mint.

>>149108875 (OP)
>"we put 20 of the new x men on a bus and the purifiers blew it up with a rocket"
BASED purifiers
There is no group more ZASED in all of marvel

>>149108875 (OP)
I stopped reading Marvel during the ANAD era. IvX event with Cyclops dying and portrayed as mega Hitler was retarded, but Secret Empire was the last straw for me.

>>149113487
Jesus did you even read New X-Men the whole premise was mutants would be the dominant species in under 2 generations, that's a problem if you're also printing Spider-Man and Daredevil that feature 0 mutant background characters.

>>149113041
Silver Age: Mutants were a broad metaphor for anything left of mainstream that people didn't understand and distrusted. You could argue there was a lot of cultural carry-over from the Holocaust.

Claremont Era: becoming a mutant was about changes in your body during adolescence and a bit more about personal acceptance and the anti-mutant stuff was more coded to be bigotry instead of mistrust.

90's Jim Lee era: Being a mutant means you wear pouches that seem to have no utility.

Morrison: What If Hogwarts revealed themselves to the world?

Krakoa: Segregationist power fantasy. Let live separate but we're obviously superior.

Modern: Now the Mutant allegory is fully internalized by readers perspective and they insist on a single specific definition instead of broad strokes. It's ALWAYS been about race...and nothing else. It's ALWAYS been about homosexuality...and nothing else.

>>149109276
>>149109307
Bendis Avengers got a big boost from having Wolverine and Spidey on the team.
Ultimates was just the relatively short burst where people were really into the Ultimate Universe.
I think I heard a similar quote about Spider-Man, something like 'If they say they're pulling from classic stories, it means 90's cartoon and if they say straight from the comics it's Bendis USM and Slott ASM only'

>>149113041
basically any group that feel they're being persecuted
The X-Men are faggots, trannies, guns rights activist, every race under the sun, gamers, autsists, shipper etc. It's why the fanbase is so obnoxious and filled with self-inserters.

>>149109532
twat

>>149109077
This, the biggest hit on the X-men was exclusion from games and animation. The comic side is vastly overstated and genuinely fucked with the inhumans more. Black Bolt getting cucked was worse than anything going on with mutant characters. Scott got close but that go cold feet and his big "hitler" moment was erasing a cloud and even that was just Emma. The completely ignored Emma's shit. Not a single thing on the Inhumans side got redacted. Black Bolt still got cucked, Medusa fucked Gorgon and Johnny, the Inhumans still killed tons of mutants, Attilan is still destroyed. It's the 60th anniversary of the Inhumans creation and 50th of Inhumans volume one and they haven't even gotten mention all year. The solicitations are up to September now.

>>149114280
>This, the biggest hit on the X-men was exclusion from games and animation.
And even then, I don't think it was that bad outside of MvC (yeah, Lego Marvel 2 as well, but that didn't seem to get much attention).

>>149108875 (OP)
it's very clear that x-men went to shit the moment bendis got on board, and the writers' treatment of beast specifically is just proof they're trying to make him a scapegoat to make all the other characters' shitty actions seem acceptable in comparison to beast's

you are correct though. the attempt to push inhumans was fucking trash. the inhumans aren't compelling in any way at all and will always be generic

>>149112317
>stop lying
Lead by example retard

>>149112317

>>149112317
>>149110814
It's actually so just how crazy Emma is because black boy did nothing to cyclops directly he died because the universe we started and the mist became poisonous to mutants and the only thing stopping Emma from realizing that at that moment is seek on crazy and wanted him to be a martyr.

>>149111628
>Read Inhumans vs X-Men and find out.
Just because plot armor reasons got Black Bolt beated doesn't make that scene have anything to do with the flaws in that cover image that I pointed out nor doesn't make the Inhumans have any ill intention towards mutants or the X-Men before the X-Men attacked the Inhuman city-state which they were never hold accountable to because the X-Men wanted to get in a big fight with the Inhumans instead of ever explaining themselves about what the mist was about to do.

>>149108875 (OP)
Very bad but not as bad as Cuckoa

>>149113487
>In total, 986,618 mutants were either depowered or killed by the Decimation.[1]

>A Cerebro estimated a decrease of 91.4% of the world's mutant population in the moments after the M-Day,[12]

so even following the Genoshan thing there should have been 1,079,451 mutants left on M-Day, assuming parity of birth-death rates (and in fact we know the mutant population was expanding, so there were likely more mutants being born than were dying off, in addition to the general rate of population growth where births exceed deaths in most western countries)

of those only 198 were known to the X-Men/US government (in fact 199, since they knew Typhoid Mary was alive but were keeping her secret)

but aside from Typhoid Mary there should have been 92,832 mutants left after M-Day if Cerebro is at all accurate; to be out by two orders of magnitude, for a device they can supposedly use to track individuals, is ridiculous, it's Sniffex levels of fraud if it's that bad, that's a town the size of Albany simply disappearing from your psychic bullshit detector grid

>>149116139
You know what I just realized because of this comment about this list nothing about the Mist is on here that means the Mist actually killed less than 30 Mutants in total .

>>149116205
God that page is such misery masturbatory and poor Wanda Maximoff gets dragged into he bullshit plus putting The Avengers right next to her name to make them seem complicit and part of some mass murder to vilify them like in any X-book. The open contempt X-Men has and forces on the rest of Marvel is the main reason it puts me off.

>>149116139
>we know the mutant population was expanding
Only after AvX. Before then their last birth was Hope.

>>149116205
Note that they specify "humans" in their listing. The Inhumans wouldn't qualify.

>>149116507
before M-Day their population was also expanding, that was why it had gone from handfuls to millions under Morrison

>>149116139
this also doesn't account for the cloned Marauders, cloned Sinisters, Omega - because nobody knew he was a mutant until he absorbed all that M-Day energy - etc etc

>>149116638
Inhumans can say themselves a subculture
The ones on planet Earth would be human Inhumans .Being humans may have been a separate Society but unlike the X-Men they do consider themselves part of the human race or at least the iInhuman humans do in Royals we say that a few other species has inhumans but it's a condition that gives you superpowers and stuff not an on this species when seen by Inhumans. Don't forget the X-Men was saying Kamala was human before she got revived as a mutant and then join the X-Men. Join the push of the Inhumans they were trying to join larger Human Society.

>>149111355
>other writers not understanding the memo
Go back and actual read interviews, it was Hickman forcing the "Krakoa is perfectly perfect and awesome and no one can touch them" bullshit on the other writers. Presumably it was because he wanted to be the one doing the grand reveal the thing he kept telling you was awesome was actually shit. Then he acts surprised that Marvel walked back on his plans when the sales figures came in and the other writers found the status quo was more interesting than what had preceded it. For all the complaints that the other writers didn't get it, the timing of Hickman getting giving up editorial control and the point where writers start offering genuine criticism of Krakoa and addressing the characterization issues overlaps. Krakoa was a fine concept for a limited, OOC series but always a shitty concept for a canon story.

>>149111715
It's the opposite, with a bunch of stans pretending Marvel downplaying the X-Men was much worse and longer than it actually was.

>>149113918
Even worse, if you crunch the numbers for that timeline it is impossible without a mass human die-off event.

>>149114280
That would imply there was any demand for X-Men animation. WatXM was all the way back in 2009 and the anime in 2011; between the Inhumanity and HoXPoX the only shows were Avengers Assemble, Hulk and the Agents of SMASH, Guardians of the Galaxy, Marvel's Spiderman, and Big Hero 6. IIRC the X-Men show up in the Disk Wars anime.

>>149116707
Unlike mutants, Inhumans are a distinct sub-species of humanity, if not an outright separate species.

>>149117167
>Unlike mutants, Inhumans are a distinct sub-species of humanity, if not an outright separate species.
What makes you say that when they got a bunch of new Inhumans when the mist went Global in the world?

It was so bad it had the Inhumans try to commit a genocide on mutants and portrayed it as normal.

>>149117192
NuHumans are not Inhumans

The most egregious moment of this whole X-Men erasure plan was when they made a whole Marvel vs Capcom game without any X-Men characters. An actual MvC without Wolverine, Magneto or Storm. Or Doom, because the FF were getting the same treatment.
Oddly enough they didn't add any Inhumans though. You'd think that Black Bolt might have gotten in.

>>149108875 (OP)
Shit was so bad that it caused Remender to leave Marvel because they wanted to force him to do the M-Pox shit when he was pitching Extraordinary X-Men

>>149109009
Old Man Logan did have a reason to hang around though, and that was to basically to allow Marvel to keep publishing comics with (a) Logan without resurrecting the 616 version

>>149117214
They never actively tried to harm mutants, which in turn made the event even more pathetic as the whole concept was highly avoidable in-universe. It couldn't even deliver actual cool Inhuman vs Mutant fights, making it worse than AvX

>>149117307
How ?

>>149117384
And AvX was pretty fucking bad

>>149113918
Have you? Cassandra Nova said it was in FOUR generations not two and that was when there was more than 16.5 millions of mutants living on Genosha.

>>149117192
NuHumans are explicitly crossbreeds; it's a plot point that without enough Inhuman ancestry terragenesis will fail.

>>149117312
McVI didn't start production until a few months before IvX was published and wasn't released until six months after IvX wrapped.

>>149117576
>it's a plot point that without enough Inhuman ancestry terragenesis will fail.
That doesn't mean in that doesn't mean Inhumans are separate species then humans. Even Medusa and Black Bolt say they are human.

>>149117407
NuHumans are just people who at some point their ancestor was a rogue Inhuman and have enough latent genes to not die in Terrigenesis. Inhumans have been interbreeding with each other since before recorded history. Even without undergoing Terrigenesis they are stronger, faster, live longer etc