Even as a 12 year old, I knew that the cluster was horrific. I can’t think of this bitch as an allegory for a toxic family member when they showed so much body horror and a mass grave bioweapon intended to destroy all life on earth.

If they need her alive to repair every gem she’s shattered, then she needs to be doing it from a cell

>>149186776 (OP)
>People who were 12 when this aired are now old enough to use 4chan
man I'm getting old

>>149186801
I’m 23

Because you're not as good as steven

>>149188324
You’re right. I’m better

>>149186776 (OP)
The problem is Steven, nor any other character, was in a position to make and enforce such an arrangement. At best, it could've ended up a case where White Diamond would refuse to repair the shattered gems unless freed, and likely given active reward for doing so.

>>149188666
They repair gems with bodily fluids. Hook her up to machines and extract those fluids forcefully. I will not accept any other outcome

>>149186776 (OP)
This disgusting pig bitch’s existence

>>149186776 (OP)
to be fair the cluster was Yellow's idea.
Yellow is the one that puts the gems together and she calls it "her" experiments and also her room is full of them so

White is fun cause she is literally no one at all.
Her whole thing was thinking that she was everyone because she is white light which makes up all the other colours
I both find hard to put too much blame on her and also sympathise with her because she literally never "did" anything EVER
White gave up having an indentity for the illusion that she is perfect and as colateral damage everyone else in the planet had to be just as miserable as her
I think it's really cool and I'm still mad the show rushed it's ending

>>149188666
This.
Also the whole point of that arc was to make her "change her mind" anyways and doing anything else would defeat the point.
>Pink Diamond ran away
And that didn't work because she couldn't escape her problems
>Rose Quartz started a war
That also didn't work out because violence is rewarded with more violence and she ended up losing the war and a bunch of her friends
>Steven doesn't want to flee or fight but just to talk
And that ended up working because he went to the root of the problem to solve it.
It's a good moral to have in your kids show...

The problem is with SU that the first few seasons set up an absurdly good premise with "deep" topics like alien invasions, genocide, brainwashing, mutating into mindless beasts, grief etc. playing them absolutely straight by following a tiny handful of survivors of an apocalyptic war against untouchable alien gods, who have just lost their leader, the only one who knew whats going on and were coping hard with it.

There is no way on earth that the quir-keeeey little 12 minute runtime show the executives demanded could have followed on that well and delivered s satisfying closure, especially with its own crew sabotaging it with memebarn shit. There was just no possible outcome to transition the show into a good space opera or something in that format. Just note how much better the double-length Bismuth episode flows.

Sad, because as the show itself said, it could have been great

>>149190578
im happy for the turbo autists in the other universe where this show actually did get everything it needed to thrive

>you did "war crimes" and you have to undo them
>ok
what's the problem?

>>149190760
there isn't one. people are too obsessed with punishment. in this case it isn't needed.

>>149186776 (OP)
Punishment is meant for two things. Correcting behavior and demonstrating to others not to do what was done to earn the punishment. Anything else is self indulgent sadism.

White's behavior has already been changed and she serves as a better lesson to others as is.

>>149190919
yeah thats what im sayin!

>>149190760
>>149190897
Go back to l*ddit fags

>>149186776 (OP)
>even as a 12 year old
I don't get why people say this when I was capable of critical thinking when I was 5/6. I sure hope a 12 year old is.

Steven Universe needed to be at least 20 percent cooler

>>149186776 (OP)
Look, I not one for evil for sake, but i find this whole thing opuhlegofot nowdofrito, know what i mean?

The "The Diamonds aren't space hitlers because they've never encountered another sapient race" retcon is easily the worst part. The reaction to the redemption was so bad they had to retroactively make the Diamonds less Heinous so fans would buy it

>>149191154
That is the worst fucking crime a writer can commit. Realizing that your world is too large, too extensive, too detailed, you have shown and carefully implied too much and your audience is too invested, so you have to dumb it down' so you could wrap it up and call it finished. Same shit happened with Game of Thrones, and its funny how even the outcome was the same, it suddenly disappeared from pop culture overnight. Viewers NEVER forgive such a betrayal of expectations.

>>149190275
>>149190760
>>149190897
>If they had just talked to Hitler, it all could have been avoided
Litterally female logic: the show

>>149189303
>Hook her up to machines and extract those fluids forcefully
Sounds hot

>>149190929
not an argument

>>149189303
Like one of those horror movies where you see the Eldritch space thing being given human blood to survive?

no the worst part was spending years world building and then resolve homeworld/diamonds/corruption within 3 episodes. so disgusting. homeworld should have been an entire season

>>149191683
but it wasn't that deep and would have been a waste of airtime when the creators have a story to tell and that's just background noise aka lore if you're a redditor/youtube watcher

>>149191353
To be fair tho, Hitler didnt come up with litelry anything the Natzis belived in, he just brought them together under a single banner, he just said what he thought was popular. so himself he is actually rather low on the scale of evill.

>>149191353
You're the only one saying that.
It's more of a
>If they just talked to their parents it could all have been avoided
It is at it's core a story about solving a messed up family dynamic and you just can't see it cuz Hitler is the only thing on your mind for some reason

>>149191683
This. It's so sad how things were starting to get cool but then it just sorta ended.
Reminder that we wer supposed to get a whole entire season IN homeworld but sugar gave that up in order to have lesbian kiss on screen

>>149191766
Yeah, shame we saw bearly anything of homeworld before it got stevened, the only high ranking gem besides dimonds we ever saw was Emerald, and thats only for like a minute,we basically know next to nothing of old homeworld except how they treated there undesirables.

>>149191851
I wish could have gotten a bunch of episode showing new gems and what their role is in homeworld and maybe we could get some undertones of them having interests other then what they're made for
the best we got was the pearl's having passtimers and those gems who fused out of nowhere
I wish they had an episode... Then the stakes would go beyond freeing the corrupted gems and be also about getting everyone to be free (Which includes White Diamond whose also trapped in the misery she herself is causing)

>>149191851
>>149191766
>>149191710
>>149191683
The harsh reality is that they couldn't write a Homeworld season if they wanted too. Nothing about gem society makes any sense (a heavily militarized civilization of semi-robotic planet looters that both isn't at war and keeps expanding out with no resistance) and the longer we spend among them, the more obvious that would become. The crewniverse wrote an ambitious story and none of them were skilled enough to actually do it justice.

>>149191892
their goal is to literally take over the entire universe
White wants that because then she'd not only be everyone but also be everywhere ever
But you're right... The crew is consistently incompetent

>>149186776 (OP)
>an allegory for a toxic family member

Hey remember all those times when we were shown that Pink Diamond was a bratty little asshole with entitlement issues and the other Diamonds treatment of her was generally the result of them being sick of her shit?

So glad they dropped that so White Diamond could be "toxic."

>>149186776 (OP)
And by the end of Future the Cluster is still a thing when Steven promised to help them back in season 3. A truly pathetic show.

>>149191937
I love how it's supposed to be a big debate whether or not Pink was a bad person. Literally everything we know about Rose tells us that she is an amoral sociopath with absolutely no sense of accountability. She started a whole war against herself that destroyed half the Earth just because she couldn't figure out how to tell her moms that she wanted to keep humanity as pets. Then you got the shit with Bismuth and Steven who inherited all her problems

>>149188666
>>149190275
Steven was left in a position where the Diamonds were completely submissive towards him and he could have told them to do anything.
>repair the cluster now
>give us the tools to heal all corrupted and broken gems by ourselves
>now leave homeworld and never return
And they would have done all that due to the guilt and embarrassment they felt. But the rat bastard didn’t do anything except tell them to be nicer.

>>149186776 (OP)
All they had to do was write in a tertiary antagonist who went too far and made the cluster without the Diamonds knowing. Instead they doubled down on the interstellar space hitler idea and made these giant immortal "perfect" beings incapable of understanding why a planet full of sentient life would have an issue with being exploded by a ball of angry gem corpses.

>>149191987
All I can think is how there's really nothing to stop them from going back to their old ways the microsecond he dies of old age. Sure they might do imperialism in a nicer way, but what actual safeguard is there?

>>149191154
Secondary to that problem is that the Gempire is impossibly old and still doesn't know that their gems, whom they keep making more and more advanced and refined and capable, are all sentient beings with their own personalities, desires, and opinions. Everyone besides the Diamonds knows they've got their own shit going on, but somehow this entire space empire runs on the premise that every single gem is a mindless perfectly obedient soldier that only lives to do exactly what it's told and nothing else.

>>149186801
Don’t panic until you start going grey. Then you know it’s over and you really are here forever.
TᴖT

>>149192010
>but what actual safeguard is there?
none
lol

>>149191987
Exactly!
>>149192010
Shame... and also because they themselves were all miserable
Steven didn't defeat them he changed them.

>Blue Diamond thinks she is the most caring and loving one and it makes no sense for Pink to have ran away
Steven shows her that she is actually the worst abuser out of the three since she was the one that made Pink cry the most and constantly hurted her

>Yellow Diamond thinks she is the most composed one and that it's the sacrifice you have to make in order to be respected
Steven shows up and makes her see that no matter how perfect she "does" everything the world around her is anything but perfect and she is just as sad about it but hides it because she needs to be the responsible one

>White Diamond thinks she is ALWAYS right and that she is the IDEAL gem and all gems are just a part of her
All Steven did was prove her wrong which shocked her entire foundation because she is actually really really really weak.
White Diamond wants to believe she is everyone because if she doesn't know who she is and if she can't be everyone then it can only mean she is nobody at all.
Her power comes entirely from the illusion that she is perfect and the reason she forces it on everyone is because since she sees others as her she thinks them acting in a way she wouldn't is a direct personal attack and it breaks her illusion of perfection (narcissistic injury)

>Pink Diamond thought she was nobody and that her existance didn't matter and she could just disapear without anyone caring
And yet living as Steven for all those years showed her life in a new angle from an actual loving family which is why Pink Steven gets so happy when he hugs Steven... They're Pink Diamond finally getting to love herself

>>149191987
Retarded take. He literally made Yellow, White and Blue assist in reforming Homeworld for Era 3. Making them leave immediately when there was still work to be done would be dumb. The Diamonds destroyed a LOT of gems to the point we see, multiple years later, in Future that Yellow is still repairing gems. They aren't a problem anymore.
>>149192010
They won't simply because they changed. White literally had her perfect worldview shattered, it's objectively impossible for her to go back to her old self. Even if Steven or his gem somehow never comes back. Yellow, Blue and White already cracked. White literally lets lesser gems control her body.

The only real issue are the gems, not the Diamonds and Steven has a lot of people that's taking up the mantle in his stead.

>>149192165
And by "gems" I mean gems spoiled by the hierarchy that want to go back to the old days. Not only are the Crystal Gems still around but there's an immortal superpowered space captain that's going to help people in space. The Diamonds themselves wouldn't throw away Pink/Steven's memory either even if Steven dies.

>>149192082
The safeguard is their love for Pink Diamond and having their worldviews shattered. They're also surrounded by gems influenced by Steven's thinking such as Spinel.

>>149191353
Depending on who you ask then yeah it would have solved the issue, or did solve the issue.

>>149192165
>>149192186
There's also the fact they're just happier like this.
Blue doesn't cry anymore, yellow doesn't have to carry the world on her shoulders and White is learning to find her own indentity instead of having to constantly rely on other people to feel like she is someone

>>149191937
Both can be true. Blue, Yellow and White were terrible to her in general with Pink herself still being terrible.
>>149191979
>Couldn't figure out how to tell her moms that she wanted to keep humanity as pets
This is objectively wrong as presented in the show. When Pink tried to save humanity, Blue and Yellow just grabbed some humans and created the Zoo. Pink repeatedly tried to not colonize Earth until she resorted to a war. And then the war escalated to wanting to free all gems after she saw Garnet. Rose is more complex than you're giving credit for.

>>149191967
The Cluster will be fixed eventually. Cluster is a non issue since it's currently content with each other. The Diamonds and Steven are busy undoing an entire empire. Even now, they are still helping with uncorrupted/unshattering gems.

>>149192225
Exactly, thus, they have their worldviews shattered. Their shattered worldview made them realize how much better off they are by simply taking part of permanent retirement, chilling and helping gems with ease.

>>149191410
that boy ain't right

>>149192236
it's implied that it's a cascade effect
White put pressure on Yellow and Blue who in turn put take it out on Pink
The four still love each other but it's very abusive and they just see it as normal before Steven came along.
Tho Pink WAS spoiled. in the Tale of Steven book it's said that Yellow and Blue would indulge in Pink's antics and encourage her behaviour and that White was the only one that could keep her in place.

>>149191757
They dismembered millions of gems and stuck them together into a bioweapon designed to eliminate all life on earth. They’ve presumably done this multiple times. You can’t pass it off as a toxic family member allegory when the horror of their actions is shown repeatedly in the show

>>149193152
Dude it's not real.
It's still supposed to be a toxic family allegory the rest is just biproduct of it being sci-fi and shit
And in any case they're actively undoing all the damage they've done.
That's something they wouldn't be doing if they were just killed off careslessly.

>>149193337
>”Dude it’s not real.”

You want us to just not think about the events of the story to make the allegory work? They can undo the damage they’ve done from a cell

>>149193362
The allegory works regardless because it's just what it's MEANT to be.
It's not an opinion or theory just literally the moral/core/lesson of the arc.
And I guess it was bad wording and that's on me but when I said "it's not real" I didn't mean it as "don't think about it. otherwise it doesn't work" I meant it as in "have some suspension of disbelief" that they would be forgiven cause real world war-crimes or law doesn't really apply to them

>>149193640
Suspension of disbelief exists to allow the audience to become emotionally invested in a story. It falls apart when the emotions that the story presents to you don’t make sense even when you buy into the story’s logic. Steven Universe first asks you to be horrified at the gem experiments, which are shown to be heinous through visuals and music.

Then it asks you to think of the characters responsible as just toxic family members. I know what the story was trying to do. It just failed

>>149192165
Homeworld depending on their tyrants to begin again is massively retarded. Nobody wanted nazis to rebuild the countries they conquered after they lost WW2. The Diamonds should have sacrificed their power to empower the oppressed gems instead of still forcing them to rely on them.
Imagine having a tragic backstory where the Diamonds shattered your loved one and you need to crawl back to them to ask them “pretty please” to bring them back. That’s traumatizing.

I love how you idiots look at a children's show about sentient rocks that indulges the fantasy of actually being able to reform those who hurt you and get mad that "it's not realistic"

>>149186776 (OP)
I'm mad you've watched this in your formative years

>>149193362
>They can undo the damage they’ve done from a cell

Oh yeah? Who's going to put them there, smart guy?