after his brief stint aa faker-batman following final crisis and that team he was on with Starfire & arsenal, I'm struggling to think of any good stories this guy has been in at all including external media. He's so fucking bland a s stock goodguy now, he's literally just nightwing with no consistent supporting cast but he kills people

he will always have potential and DC will always keep wasting it in favor of retarded Batfamily drama

>he's got potential guise I swear it's been 20 years any time now you'll see

>>149219594 (OP)
Jason Todd fans can never seem to agree on how Jason should actually be.

He should bang Artemis or Starfire or that blond stewardess girl (or all three) and murder criminals with lethal force. Everything else is pussy shit im uninterested in

>>149219594 (OP)
redpill is the character limit

>>149219594 (OP)
>>149219594 (OP)
Jason can't successfully step out of Batline or in the eyes of marketing it would damage Batman.
It doesn't matter how reasonably you argued the point, if a newer character showed up and actually cleaned up what Batman hasn't, or more accurately was not allowed to by the writers and editors, it would lead to press calling Batman a very long and tired joke of a story. I'm not actually sure what would happen to sales of Batman merch but they're not eager to find out.
It's why Jean Paul wasn't allowed to succeed either.

>>149219594 (OP)
He hasn't had a good story in years because Under The Red Hood wasn't that good of a story to begin with. It is the antithesis of Green Lantern: Rebirth.

>>149219894
Cus every direction they've taken him fucking sucks after UTRH, including when he was fake batman

>>149219894
More like DC doesn’t give a fuck about what made people like him in the first place and just keeps messing with him.

>>149219594 (OP)
Just give him Artemis and Bizarro back. Have them go on wacky adventures together. That's it, that's all you gotta do. Have Roy and/or Starfire pop in every now and then (he's alive again, right? is he still Black Lantern or whatever the fuck that was about?). Don't give him that weird uncanny valley face mask OR that weird half-mask again.
I swear that's all people want. I know that because it's all I want.

Jason should have just turned into DC's Punisher after Under the hood, plain and simple.

>>149223293
That alone wouldn’t fix anything. They already tried making him DC’s Punisher, but they screwed it up by writing him like a raving lunatic. Now they’re doing it again, and from the previews, he’s already getting shot and fumbling around like a reckless idiot.

>>149219594 (OP)
No he's been shit since the New 52.
Now he's taking Huntress off to NOLA. Let's hope she gets fucked over less than Starfire and Arsenal.

>>149222735
>fucking sucks after UTRH
>implying he also didn't suck in UTRH
That shit is not a good story for anyone.

>>149221940
>He hasn't had a good story in years because Under The Red Hood wasn't that good of a story to begin with
Casuals love him just from aesthetics alone. The comics don't matter to them.

>>149219894
Not wrong.

>>149224797
He didn’t suck in UtRH.

>>149219594 (OP)
No. He had 1 bretty gud story when he was first brought back and has been endless shit since then making this whole exercise a huge net negative and he should have never been brought back

>>149219594 (OP)
Rhato is proof that he does
His rebirth first run is better than the entire of nightwing runs mashed together

>>149223174
It’s also what Dex wanted and I’m still pissed DC didn’t give him a shot with it.

>>149226009
Not sure praising a run written by one of the biggest Dick fans is the flex you think it is.

>>149226295
He looks like an edgelord.

>>149219894
Idk what baffles me more about this bot take. That it's not a problem that most DC characters have. Or that it's not normal when every DC writers that use Jason write him as a different character.

>>149219594 (OP)
Retarded character should have stayed dead.

>>149221940
It's DC. No character had a good story in years,or ever.

>>149227584
You say that as if that's exclusive to DC and not the entirety of large publisher Western comics

>>149227610
Yes if by western you mean the USA. Large publishers who keep their franchise under constant life-support are barely a thing with BDs and it's nothing like the mass-production capacity DC has.

>>149227650
That's because a huge chunk of Eurocomic publishers that got big in the mid-20th century went bust in the 90s and 00s because they were reliant on long-running series and failed to effectively convert them to legacy titles or bring in new talent to replace them. Plus the Eurocomic market is its own clusterfuck.

>>149219894
it's because DC can't handle a Punisher-level mass murderer who isn't the Joker>>149223993
>>149223293
Punisher had allies.That's what everyone forgets. He uses the allies that Batfag is too torn up to use.
He needs his own "timeline" to properly be used. Or go Max Payne and get sent to 3rd world Brazil.
Basically the way Spiderman is distributed is how Red Hood should be distributed
The reason people can't write Red Hood is because they don't realize he's already made up his mind in how he does things. All he's doing is his own battles and building his own allies. He needs his own series away from all that. Basically Tin Tin/Punisher, Heart of Darkness deal. Give him a real reason to doubt humanity and become sharper.
>>149226295
And this. After his adventures, he meets back up with these 2. And they have all made discoveries of their own. But they realize Jason is different as well.

>>149227729
Keeping a franchise alive with new material because of it's brand recognition was just not the european mentality until this decade started to resurrect the classics, and it's mostly eventfull here. Autorship and publication is different in Europe. A title release as a full album every year or two. In contrast, DC publish 10+ weekly or montly issues with Batman because they have 10 Bat-books going on at the same time. It's just not the same pace, mentality or industry.

>>149226009
The run is shit. It suffers from the same Lobdellisms as the first volume. He doesn't give a shit about continuity or any character besides the ones he's responsible for, so he does dumb shit like having Batman excusing Jason's murderhobo shit, or having Bizarro murder TRIGON THE TERRIBLE and become KING OF HELL.

>>149228228
> Batman excusing Jason's murderhobo shit,
Give us one example. Outside lodbell as well if you want. At best Jason is tolerated and kept on the fringe unless he plays by the "rules". The loudest fags always complain about Rhato or RH because everytime Bruce is in the picture, they fight ugly.
>Bizarro murder TRIGON
I hope you put the same energy when it come to rant about Batman being able to cross through the atmosphere without a mask or power.

>>149228465
...you think ti's just a power levels thing?
...you think Trigon is from Hell?

>>149219594 (OP)
He’s about to leave Gotham and team up/fuck the Huntress.

Speaking on a large scale here, Dick Grayson is the only true Robin in my eyes.
All the other robins are just mental illness.
Anytime I see Jason or Damien show up In any form I know that portion of the story is going to be shitty and annoying. There are a few exceptions, but usually it's only when they write Jason or Damien like Dick.

>>149229158
i can't think of a single time I cared for Damian at all honestly

>>149229480
just realized I spelled the name wrong.
fuck!

No.

DC wants to keep harking back to Under the Red Hood due to the story's popularity so they want to have Bruce and Jason butt heads and for Jason to be edgy.

However DC also wants to keep him in the batfamily for brand recognition so Jason cannot actually be efficient at being edgy or else Bruce looks bad for letting Jason kill people while accepting him.

DC is wanting two completely separate things that don't agree with each other, and the best they've managed at trying to appease both of their wants is having Jason whine about Bruce and use guns while not actually killing anybody, which sucks.

>>149229158
He is the only true Robin and the shittest bat character.

>>149223174
>>149227773
>>149226295
>unironic RHATOfags
What is wrong with you people, a near decade of that run and Jason got nothing good out of it.

>>149219594 (OP)
make him become Amanda Waller's protege.

BAM

>>149229811
Only if we make waller a platinum blonde white woman.

>>149219594 (OP)
Give him a book with Steph or bring back Artemis and Bizarro.

>>149229844
Okay, she's a platinum blonde fat white woman with short hair.

It’s so easy to be a killer, but forgiving them is infinitely harder, and that’s what Jason did… until DC decided that Jason needed to be one. I can’t take people who say that Jason needs to be DC’s Punisher seriously. DC already has several.

>>149230264
He’s a vigilante, not a priest, you dumb fuck.

>>149230885
Cool, the last twenty years of Jason Todd prove me right tho.

>>149231060
All it proves is how bad he gets the moment they make him stop killing.

>>149229997
Could also put him with Eddie and Rose, and then the people hating JayRoy will stop having conniption fits.

>>149231197
Geoff Jonns and the Nu52 turning Rose into Jason's cocksleeve almost ruined the character. Priest fixed her in Rebirth.
Then Williamson tried to do it again and Brisson rolled most of it back, but it's not enough.
Both Rose and Joey need a long run in the Titans title to remind everyone what franchise they're from.

>>149231277
We had Joey pop up briefly in the Pride special but unfortunately no insight into what kind of mind temptations he was going through. It could have been a way to touch on his past connections with Kole (who Tom King had alive again) and Raven, or explore the weirdness of him having had a fiancee with a male name.

>>149229085
You think you can survive dropping through the atmosphere if you deep-breath into your underwear long enough? I don't care what Trigon is.

>>149231197
>the people hating JayRoy will stop having conniption fits.
Why would you want Dickfags to not have a conniption?

>>149231277
>Geoff Jonns and the Nu52 turning Rose into [HEADCANON]
She barely interacted with Jason, retard.

>>149231410
Nobody besides you has mentioned Batman's space fall, retard.

>>149231656
>I don't know how a reply chain work.
Your bad.

>>149231109
He’s bad in the first place because they ignored his prior character so he could kill indiscriminately.

>>149222950
You got some people who only like him cause he's an edgy anti hero, women who want him to be the Raphael of the batfamily to Nightwings Leo, and the ones who just want him to be a villain again

>>149222950
Those people aren’t Jason Todd fans and have terrible taste.

Jason had actual grievances against Bruce, shame the Joker became all of them

I had more fun making Jason & Batfam stories on ChatGPT than I do reading his actual comics.

>>149226912
thats the point, jason is edgeKINO

>>149229158
>Speaking on a large scale here, Dick Grayson is the only true Robin in my eyes.
Jason and Tim were the only guys who made Robin interesting.

This was peak according to Lobdelfags, apparently.

>>149227576
It seems to go extra for Jason though, he's very inconsistent, more than most other characters, no one can agree on how he should be.

>>149235380
>It seems to go extra for Jason though, he's very inconsistent, more than most other characters, no one can agree on how he should be.
You can blame Judd Winick for this as this was intentional.

>I'll end with Jason one last time. You've said he's a bad guy, but we've seen him try to do good and be good. Is the idea that Jason Todd is irredeemable a big theme you're going to play with in the series?

>I would answer that's something I always play with. Jason can do a certain level of good in one arc and a horrible in the next, and none of that would be out of character. He's very unpredictable. Maybe that's what makes him kind of interesting. He's someone who is tortured, he's someone who is damaged, he is someone who has been through a lot and is still just trying to find his way. You could say he's a good man who does very, very bad things, and it's not always the case that he's doing bad things for the greater good, sometimes it's doing bad things just for the bad. Killing villains in his opinion isn't a bad thing. There is somewhat a message and methodology to what he's doing, but at the same time he lets his emotions get the better of him. It's what got him killed. It's the sort of thing that Jason, in a way, wouldn't surprise me if he is viewed as somewhat heroic for a fashion, but then falls back on bad behavior, which could happen from year to year, you don't know. From anti-hero to villain to back again, I don't know.

Also
>but at the same time he lets his emotions get the better of him. It's what got him killed.
That's not what got him killed.

>>149232365
He literally watched a rapist fall to his death without even trying to help, then got even more brutal before he died. So if he came back and changed how his ways, that really shouldn’t surprise anyone.

>>149236259
>He literally watched a rapist fall to his death without even trying to help
O'Neil never said if he did or not.

Red Hood doesn't offer anything new to the current relationship structure of the Batfamily now that Cassandra is actively engaged in things now. a 'Batman that kills people' is not a hot commodity anymore and Red Hood's outlook on death and the role it serves in vigilaitism is either horrifically adolescent or one dimensional.

>>149236383
>Red Hood's outlook on death and the role it serves in vigilaitism is either horrifically adolescent or one dimensional.
This. Even in 2005, killing Joker wouldn't fix Jason's bleak existence.

>>149235520
>Jason can do a certain level of good in one arc and a horrible in the next, and none of that would be out of character. He's very unpredictable. Maybe that's what makes him kind of interesting. He's someone who is tortured, he's someone who is damaged, he is someone who has been through a lot and is still just trying to find his way. You could say he's a good man who does very, very bad things, and it's not always the case that he's doing bad things for the greater good, sometimes it's doing bad things just for the bad. Killing villains in his opinion isn't a bad thing.

Isn't this just Moon Knight? Someone whose morals are so broken that they would just think it's a good idea to blow up the terrorists with their own bomb? For christ's sake that would be more fun and interesting than this family drama bullshit of back and forth yapping.

>>149236359
Doesn’t matter. The fact that he just stood there and watched without trying to help or showing any reaction to his death tells you everything.

>>149236571
>The fact that he just stood there and watched without trying to help or showing any reaction to his death tells you everything.
What was he going to jump after him? Never gonna happen because that wasn't the point. Either way, it's still not enough to explain the drastic change in UTH.

>>149236453
No, but the Joker would be dead the world would be better for it.

>>149236723
Everyone agrees but that would never happen. They couldn't even temper the Joker by having Jason's return be a net loss for him.

>>149236631
He definitely could have. Batman jumped after a man and saved him in the same run.
>it's still not enough to explain the drastic change in UTH.
It does, actually. That was Jason’s final character development before his death, and it set the stage for everything that came after.

>>149237339
>That was Jason’s final character development before his death, and it set the stage for everything that came after.
No, it was saving his mother despite her literally handing him over to get murdered. That was the real shocking part.

>>149237381
That’s not a big deal. Yeah, she betrayed him, but Joker was still the one who killed him, and Jason never forgave him.

>>149229543
This desu

>Off brand Punisher and crime lord who takes out other crime lords
>ex-robin leading a team dc claims aren’t completely heroes but don’t even let them kill bad guys
>powerless batguy #14 fighting crime non-lethally

the last two are overdone and boring with the first option being the most unique but dc would never commit to it
they want him to be able to run back to daddy for head pats every few months

>>149235220
>not reading and writing about something else entirely