Why do Western cartoonists live so much longer than mangaka? Carl Barks lived to 99, for example. Average lifespan of a mangaka is 62, according to a recent study (despite Japan having one of the highest lifespans on Earth).

>>149299577 (OP)
Do western cartoonists draw a 15-20 page comic every week?

>>149299577 (OP)
Mangaka are notorious for working themselves to death. Japanese people in general have that bad habit but mangaka are worse in that they pretty much have to work several hours every day.

>>149299608
How the fuck do you work yourself to death? Just stop working. How fucking hard is that? It's not like work is fun.

You essentially have to be the kind of person who doesn't have self preservation and isn't conscious of their own health to put up with the work schedule weekly mangaka deal with. Yeah they can hire assistants to help but until the mangaka are big shots with a proven IP, that pay for assistants comes out of their own pay.

>>149299577 (OP)
To be honest, would you want to live until 99?

>>149299621
what if work is fun though

>>149299621
What about money?

>>149299643
People who live that long are almost always in decent health through their 70s and 80s. They have rich social lives, good mental health, and often money and status. Living to 99 is a sign that one has lived well.

>>149299649
Move to where you don't need to work that hard to barely scrape by? Jesus, man.

>>149299652
Anon, I've seen 99 year olds in real life. They can barely walk or do anything on their own. Not saying there aren't healthy/independent ones but most are not.

>>149299643
I do, as long as I'm healthy. Being alive is great.

>>149299577 (OP)
Idk anon, maybe it's because they actually take breaks and don't put literally 100% of themselves into their work all the time. Sadly the shit that gets all that detailed glorious artwork every chapter like Vagabond can take a toll on a guy, coupled with their working conditions and you get health problems fast (idk bout Modern times but that's basically what i read all the time whenever an older mangaka gets sick)

>>149299621
Money and dedication, idk if it's just a rumor or something but the guy who makes One Piece works on it during all hours of his life including when he's on vacation.

>>149299659
Where?

>>149299621
It largely has to do with how elites capture the slave class to wage slave harder
In the west there was always this religious christian angle, that if you weren't working hard you won't be rewarded and are sinning or whatever. They capture people otherwise by making it a pure necessity. Both are on the decline.
In Japan their angle is pressuring the family hard enough with standards that you are shaming the family or emperor or whatever if you aren't slaving 12 hours a day. By manipulating guilt and social pressure it has a greater and longer effect on the slave class to make them work far more ridiculously

>>149299621
Japanese work ethic. It's pretty insidious in how it's exploited by companies. The Japanese grow up believing they have to work long hours, overtime, and with minimal if any days off. It's worse for mangaka because they're usually working at home making manga and that means turning in several pages a week. Even with assistants and only working in black and white, they have to put in a lot of work. There's also less than ideal living conditions and unhealthy eating habits that work against them. They also work while sick. I remember hearing about one mangaka who died and it turned out that they went to the doctor and after being told that they HAD to rest to recover, they continued to work and died from it.

>>149299621
t. never worked on a large-scale creative project with strict deadlines

>>149299608
ka ro shi

>>149299726
>slave class
Prince Albert practically died at his desk.

>>149299608
>>149299801
ka ro shi
Karoshi is deadly serious. Literally.

>>149300853
Unrealistic* deadlines. That's the killer, right there.

>>149299577 (OP)
Generally it's because a lot of American cartoonists got to have a chance to wind down, both day to day and towards the end of their lives. Many artists could move into a writing or editorial or management position. Or in harsher cases, forcibly retired by lacking work.
Strange thing is, while American comic workloads tend to be less per month, never the less they were fairly significant with 2-4 pages a day being common before the 80s, and while assistants weren't unheard of they tended to be more a guy looking up references or filling in blacks, not a crew like better off mangaka get.
someone like Curt Swan or Jim Aparo were doing 2-3 pages a day with no assistants,for example
Carl Barks and Dick Sprang(of Batman fame) both had a chance to retire in the 60's or so and spend the next few decades painting.
It's not so cut and dried though. Lately we've had a run of American artists and creators who have died under 75, and a lot under 70 even. Retirement conditions for comic artists have become considerably harder(as it's becoming for many Americans)

Shigeru Mizuki, creator of Gegege no Kitaro, mused about the phenomenon where his contemporaries would talk about how hard they'd work, and they all died at 60, where as Mizuki was alive and eating McDonalds up until a few years ago.

>>149299577 (OP)
Generally it's because a lot of American cartoonists got to have a chance to wind down, both day to day and towards the end of their lives. Many artists could move into a writing or editorial or management position. Or in harsher cases, forcibly retired by lacking work.
Strange thing is, while American comic workloads tend to be less per month, never the less they were fairly significant with 2-4 pages a day being common before the 80s, and while assistants weren't unheard of they tended to be more a guy looking up references or filling in blacks, not a crew like better off mangaka get.
someone like Curt Swan or Jim Aparo were doing 2-3 pages a day with no assistants,for example
Carl Barks and Dick Sprang(of Batman fame) both had a chance to retire in the 60's or so and spend the next few decades painting.
It's not so cut and dried though. Lately we've had a run of American artists and creators who have died under 75, and a lot under 70 even. Retirement conditions for comic artists have become considerably harder(as it's becoming for many Americans)

Shigeru Mizuki, creator of Gegege no Kitaro, mused about the phenomenon where his contemporaries would talk about how hard they'd work, and they all died at 60, where as Mizuki was alive and eating McDonalds up until a few years ago.

>>149301064
MIZUKI MENTIONED

it's actually insane how long he lived. losing his dominant arm in wwii, getting malaria like 3 times, and yet somehow gaining (?) weight during his tour in the south pacific. he just loved eating food, so he'd hang out with the native population on rabaul and eat whatever they had. he often extolled the virtues of laziness.

i can see how a guy who went through hell on earth would value taking it easy. i think his entire platoon died.

>>149301064
>Mizuki was alive and eating McDonalds
Huh. You weren’t kidding.

https://hyakumonogatari.com/2013/04/10/mizuki-shigerus-french-fry-heaven/

>>149299577 (OP)
The only work culture more toxic and self-destructive than American work culture is Japanese work culture.

>>149299577 (OP)
It goes either way, some guys like Barks and Stan Lee live forever. But there are a lot of comic creators who die young, probably because of a sedentary lifestyle mixed with no health insurance.

>>149301238
>getting malaria like 3 times, and yet somehow gaining (?) weight during his tour in the south pacific. he just loved eating food, so he'd hang out with the native population on rabaul and eat whatever they had. he often extolled the virtues of laziness.
That's because when he was sick and near death, he wasgoing to be declared written off and not worth saving because he wasn't eating. So he forced himself to eat in front of the medics until he eventually got better. It made him appreciate food so much he made it a point to eat whenever he could.
>>149301242
I've had a healthy appreciation of McDonalds fries since reading that a few years ago. I don't eat them weekly or anything, but when I do I try to appreciate it instead of just eating it fast. It's processed and low quality, but its still food and if you're going to eat it,I try to enjoy it like Mizuki.

Not all of em

>>149299577 (OP)
Cause japan works its artists to death

>>149301985
Damn.

>>149299577 (OP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi

>>149301250
My dude, ANY east asian worl culture makes ours look like a picnic. Americans will take any break or vacation we can get. In Japan they literally have to force some workers to take their vacation time.

>>149302842
Reading about him mad me so fucking sad.

>>149299577 (OP)
What's the average lifespan of a western comics artist?

>>149299671
I know a 104 year old who gets around fine and runs a small business. You’d think he was in his 70s but he has really droopy earlobes.

>>149304601
not long enough, we've lost too many goats in the last year

>>149299692
In terms of comics.
Japan overworked. US underworked.

>>149305448
Only in your delusions.
Because you're a mentally ill tribalist retard who comes to /co/ shit all over the subject matter and for some reason think you're anything but a shitty troll. Even crying to your mod buttbuddy so they let you shit up threads.
And kek at you waiting till the last moment to try to get the last word in, pathetic fucking loser.

>>149300913
the trophy husband of a figurehead monarch? he didn't die from overwork, he died from a chronic disease or possibly cancer.

>>149299577 (OP)

Have you seen Eiichiro Oda's work schedule and desk?

>>149299621
Same energy.

>>149299577 (OP)
>Carl Barks lived to 99
lol yeah from 1901 to 2000
i really liked his work as a kid. barks' version of duckburg should've been the one that disney stuck with but

>>149299577 (OP)
Why are so many threads on this godforsaken board started by someone asking an extremely needless question with an extremely obvious answer?

>>149306246
A lot of it is bait while not caring for an actual answer. I've seen plenty of threads asking why something isn't more common in comics and cartoons only for people to point out there are a good number of it and those posts get ignored.

>>149306297
I get that, but at some point, the act of needing to troll or bait like that showcases a smooth brain in and of itself, right? The only thing worse than a faggot trying to annoy you on purpose might be an autistic faggot trying to annoy you on purpose. Chris Chan-tier retards thinking they're the trolls not the trollees. Just Jesus Christ, it drains my soul

>>149306332
Best you can do is ignore, filter, and hide. Even saging while replying gives a thread more of a chance of someone replying to your post. If the post stinks, just don't reply. Put it out of your mind. Ignore and move on.

>>149299577 (OP)
Because mangaka are all eating six-a-day pack ramen like they're fucking teens and dying from extreme hypertension in their 50s.

Hentai
/thread

>>149299577 (OP)
>>149299621
Some people tragically buy into the grift of exceptional suffering building exceptional character/rewards an elder carelessly threw at them to make them hush up about life's trials and troubles.

>>149306246
>>149306332
You're not okay with this, but all the spam threads are just fine? All the lazy quote and blank post threads are acceptable?

>>149306140
Best Tyler Tweet

>nips have the highest suicide rate
>why do western cartoonists live longer

>>149307943
Oh I hate those too, this one just kind of snapped me

>>149306246
Are you new? It's one of the two most reliable ways to get engagement on 4chan, the other being a lewd OP pic.

>>149299577 (OP)
>Carl Barks lived to 99
well damn

>>149307325
Reminds me of video game leadership talking about overtime and crunch while working on video games. Regular developers occasionally bought into it but of course the leaders kept holding onto such ideals. But the spouses were the ones that really fought back. I wonder if anything similar happened anywhere in Japan where some business had spouses protesting employees being overworked.

not true

I blame Tezuka. The God of Manga set the mold for the entire industry/culture but the guy was just a freak, both in terms of workaholism and competitiveness. He basically lived solely to make manga (and later anime) and couldn't stand being second best/less productive than anyone else. But it's a terrible model for other people to follow.

>>149310526
If you die early, you have less output anyway. It's a silly strategy.

>>149310536
Apparently not, because guys like Tezuka or Ishinomori out-produce everyone else by orders or magnitude. No one else, even Oda, is even close.

>>149310587
Saito is the most prolific ever and lived to 84.

>>149310536
No one thinks they're gonna die. Tezuka was in a hospital bed thinking he would still work when he was moments away from dying.

>>149310647
The fuck?

>>149310645
No, not even close. Tezuka and Ishinimori each have about 10x more pages.

>>149310696
Sorry, it's more like 3x.Tezuka has a lifetime total of ~150,000+ pages and Ishinomori – ~128,000 pages. Saito has a lifetime total of ~43,000 pages.

>>149310695
You didn't know? Tezuka's last words were spoken to a nurse who had to move his drawing supplies, begging her to let him work. He was dying of stomach cancer and died moments later.

>>149299577 (OP)
Smoke, drink, and have sex regularly. It's that simple.

>>149310587
Tezuka and Ishinomori also had a lot of assistants, though they were drawing a lot of course. But they were running studios that helped make the amount of work get as big as it did.

>>149308378
>>nips have the highest suicide rate
They don't, that's Greenland.
Japan isn't even in the top ten.

>>149310787
Assistants are common in the manga world, so that's true for many creators. But even if you cut their totals in half to account for that they still beat everyone else.

>>149310232
based on what?

>>149299577 (OP)
Barks is an outlier since he hit a god tier genetic roll when it came to health. He was physically fit, lived on his own and had zero cognitive degrading with age. He only needed any assisted living at 98 because when he got the cancer that killed him next year. He also remained virile enough to keep drawing softcore paintings way into his elder days.

>>149306565
Yeah is really sad :(

>>149300913
A moral system made with the aim of subjugation can subjugate its propagators, as well. Even the Soviet union had plenty true believers in its upper echelons.... Though Stalin made a lot of effort to get rid of them.

>>149306332
The need for updoots and engagement overtakes their brains even on this hellsite with no updoots
They're not here to talk about shit, they're here to see number go up

>>149308378
America has a higher suicide rate than Japan

>>149299621
You think that's easy? Japanese ingrains the mindset that relaxing for mental health is being a slacker.

The thought that Oda might die from overwork isn't a meme, it's real possibility.

>>149299577 (OP)
Daddy of all anime, Indiana Jones, and the Simpsons btw.

>>149314494
Doesnt Oda and his buddy Watsuki fuck kids or something? Who cares if he overworked himself to death? Let him.

>>149299621
>Just stop working. How fucking hard is that?
Being flakey is a good way to get your series canceled unless you're a money printer. It's also a good way to get your reputation ruined so you won't get picked up by another mag. It's ALSO a good way to have your assistants quit on you cause you're fucking up their bag too.

And most mangaka aren't making a fuckton in the first place. A regularly employed mangaka can expect to be making a bit over $20k per year for a weekly ongoing.

That's 20 pages of writing AND art every week, and checking in with your editor, and roughing out your plot, and overseeing the work of your assistants, and doing research, on top of keeping up with any side projects you have commitments for and doing cover work. And gods help you if you need to do rewrites or catch up or somebody gets sick.

And if you're a smaller mangaka you'll probably also have a smaller team or if you're psychotic be solo and the whole while be working on pitches for new projects, or working on submissions to contests, or even working a second job as an assistant to a larger mangaka.

And on top of all this some mangaka do doujin work on the side, con work, ad work, all sorts of shit. The folks that publish under multiple pen names simultaneously are complete lunatics.

>>149314494
>The thought that Oda might die from overwork isn't a meme, it's real possibility.
Oda has 2 teams with alternating release schedules and makes so much money for everyone attached to him that he could take a break literally whenever the fuck he wants for literally as long as he wants. He should be one of the last mangaka to work themselves to death and if he manages to it's because he's a complete fucking idiot.

>>149299577 (OP)
Americans in the 20th century led easy, peaceful lives. The Japanese, not so much.

>>149299621
>How the fuck do you work yourself to death? Just stop working
Togashi was very famously once kidnapped by his editor, locked in a hotel room, and not allowed to leave until he had produced enough pages to make him happy.

This was obviously before HiatusxHiatus.

>>149314896
Ah, the infamous "canning" that manga editors are known to do.