Is there a difference between mind control and hypnosis? I thought both were just a trope to get characters into danger without showing blood by making them fight instead

>>149342480 (OP)
Hypnosis is actually a real thing that gets exaggerated in media. IRL hypnosis can't force you to do anything you don't want to.
Outright mind control can make you do things you wouldn't normally do.

>>149342480 (OP)
hypnosis is the act of guiding someone into trance. mind control is the part where they’re in a trance and you tell them to do things.

>>149342480 (OP)
There is also corruption and my favorite - possession (but only when its ftf)

>>149342512
So it’s the same then

>>149342649
Hypnosis is limited to one command usually

>>149342649
did you even read the post?

>>149342734
Yes, it seems to be one continuous process. Do you consider opening a door and walking through to be seperate actions? No, it’s the same action just in stages. It’s one thing

>>149342753
>Do you consider opening a door and walking through to be seperate actions?
yes, you moron
those actions can also happen in the absence of the other

>>149342780
No when you open a door someone has to walk through. It’s one action, that’s how doors work.

>>149342788
False, as evidenced by the following:
>Open the door
>Get on the floor
>Everybody walk the dinosaur
Nobody actually goes through the door, they simply open it before getting on the floor and then proceeding to walk the dinosaur.

Mind control cant be broken as easily as hypnosis usually. But mind control also tends to be a very strong power unlike hypnosis which can just make the target sleepy or persuasive to acting. Hypnosis is less a domination of a mind and more grounded in reality.

>>149342788
- You open the door for someone else, but do not enter the doorway yourself
- You open the door for yourself and enter the doorway yourself
- Someone else opens the door and you enter the doorway yourself
- There was no door in the firstplace, you just walk through the doorway

>>149342795
They walk though which implies they went through the door. Or it could mean that they opened the door to get in to the room to dance. My point is that there’s no reason to open doors without entering, it’s a single continuous activity. Just like how you don’t bite a steak and not eat it. Hypnosis is the same way you described it.

>>149342753
>Do you consider opening a door and walking through to be seperate actions?
yes, I do.

Hypnosis
>"Drink this juice."
>"Sure why no.t"
>"Suck my dick."
>"What? No way fag."

Mind control
>"Drink this juice."
>"Yes, I will drink the juice."
>"Suck my dick."
>"Yes, I will suck your dick."

Basically hypnosis still allows for the subject to break if it's something they'd be naturally opposed to. Mind control makes them do literally whatever they've been told to do even if they'd normally be vehemently opposed to it. One is more like advanced suggestion while the other is full on autonomy hijacking.

>>149342821
See. It’s the same action because somebody walks through the door. When I hear somebody opened a door I automatically assume they walked through. It’s simple logic that you believe too.

>>149342834
there’s also conditioning, which can alter someone’s automatic response to something while leaving conscious thought intact.
if someone tells you to suck their dick and it takes until you’re on your knees unzipping their pants for you to think “wait, no, why am I doing this?” that’s a good sign you’ve been conditioned.

>>149342845
you're either trolling or have genuine reading comprehension difficulties. Either way:

>>149342881
No you don’t get it. It’s like when you sit down on the toilet. You actively tell yourself that you’re taking a shit. You don’t just half shit and then suck the shit back into your asshole. Now I will admit that sometimes people do open doors randomly. You are right there. But when a person opens a door you expect them to walk through. So most of the time it is one action. You have to specify otherwise if it isn’t. If you have to specify otherwise then it’s weird and not normal.

>>149342480 (OP)
Mind control is basically rape. You're going inside someone's brain and then fucking them on the inside.

Hypnosis is a trick or an illusion to get someone to behave a certain way but it's not guaranteed.

>>149342803
Don’t some shows treat hypnosis just like mind control

>>149342480 (OP)
It depends on the universe. Hypnosis is a specific protocol while mind control can refer to other means of influence. The tropes range from things that resemble real life hypnotism to technological control devices to what’s essentially magic and use the terms interchangeably.

>Is there a difference between mind control and hypnosis?
Let's expand the topic more generally. When Character A seeks to control Character B's thoughts or actions there are various methods that can broadly be broken down into 4 categories.
>Possession
Character A inserts a mind/soul/corruptive force into Character B to either act for them or influence their actions. Character B's thoughts and actions are not their own. Effect can be reversed by ending the possession or severing its control structure if that is possible.
>Brainwashing
Character A puts Character B through some process which alters their personality. This could be done through memory manipulation or conditioning or breaking their spirit or literally directly altering their brain. Character B's thoughts and actions are their own, but they were unnaturally developed. Could either be irreversible or only reversibly by therapy or by breaking the conditioning.
>Hypnosis
Character A puts Character B through some *hypnotic process* which alters their mental state to be more compliant. Can be broadly broken down into 2 kinds, unrealistic hypnosis which is basically just generic mind control, and hypnosis based in reality where Character B is manipulated through reduced inhibitions and altered perceptions. Character B's thoughts and actions are their own in the latter case, albeit they are acting in an altered mental state. Most effects can be reversed by breaking trance. Extreme forms of hypnosis can involve the creation of false memories or alternate personalities which bleeds into brainwashing and something functionally akin to possession.
>Mind Control
Can be used as a catch all to describe all of the above and any other unnatural influence over thoughts and actions, but is generally used to describe anything that doesn't fit the other categories, for instance control via pheromones. Also occasionally used to describe control of a person's body, but not their mind, such as with puppeteering.

>>149342923
I wouldn’t say mind control is always rape. Remember there are characters out there who willingly allow themselves to be mind controlled. Like the Sentry and Rachel

>>149342924
A lot do and it's dumb. As a practical matter when dealing with fantasy/sci-fi "hypnosis" is basically just anything called hypnosis or trance that alters someone's thoughts or behavior. Writers just want mind control and want a simple explanation for it and so they reach for hypnosis. But more and more media is drawing from real world hypnosis for their hypnosis plots, which is refreshing. Mind control and more reality based hypnosis are used for different storytelling, and work put into building up hypnosis as its own thing and separating the two is a good thing. Allows for better specificity and and the maintenance of a 2nd narrative niche with its own tropes.

>>149343056
This is a good categorization Anon. Nice job

>>149342511
>IRL hypnosis can't force you to do anything you don't want to
Fair but "anything you do want to do" can be some broad shit when dealing with IRL hypnosis when you factor in the fact it lowers your inhibitions and can be used to alter perception and even memories.

It's kinda farcical that hypnotherapy isn't recommended for memory recovery because it's so easy to implant false memories with it.

>>149343150
Interesting I like that they’re making that distinction. What’s kind of cool is I remember Star vs the Forces of Evil had a pretty accurate separation of the two and I think it included every category including possession

>>149342923
Do Jedi use mind control or hypnosis?

>>149343395
Mind control since it's magic and it's significantly more powerful than hypnosis. That said it clearly draws its look from hypnosis/mesmerism.

>>149343395
Mind control, it can instantly stop nicotine addiction.

>>149343440
I feel like it’s more of an increase in pressure actually. Mind tricks are hypnosis guided by control while anything higher is pure control

>>149343395
Jedi use hypnosis
Sith use Mind Control

>>149343248
That’s actually terrifying. Makes me wonder if MK ultra was more successful than we were told

Favorite method

>>149342480 (OP)
Hypnosis is suggestion
Mind control is absolute

>>149343248
>can be used to alter perception and even memories.
>>149344122
>that's terrifying!
Not really, because no one can hypnotize you. You have to do it to yourself. Hypnotism is purely a form of self-delusion. It is entirely voluntary.

Hypnotherapy isn't recommended for anything at all serious because it's stupid bullshit. Cognitive-behavioral therapy is an actual treatment.

>>149345870
>Hypnotherapy isn't recommended for anything at all serious because it's stupid bullshit. Cognitive-behavioral therapy is an actual treatment.
Having undergone cognitive-behavioral therapy before, hypnotherapy can be a component of it.
>Not really, because no one can hypnotize you. You have to do it to yourself.
No? Hell, it's harder to hypnotize yourself than have someone do it for you, whether we're talking induction or suggestion.

I could walk myself into a trance in a few minutes, but my therapist could put me under in a few sentences. And obviously it is harder to come up with suggestions yourself without breaking trance than to just get them fed to you.

Now you are correct that hypnotism is entirely voluntary, which removes some of the scariness of it. But it's not like that's a barrier to abuse. One of the points of hypnosis is reduced inhibitions, it's entirely possible to induce trance in someone without them realizing you are doing it (depending on individual susceptibility to more concealable forms of induction), and likewise suggestions can be framed as innocuous requests or instructions. Hypnosis just requires consent, not informed consent.

And all that's setting aside the possibility someone taking advantage of your trust with hypnosis you do know you're getting into. Or someone just fucking up. Like despite the fact that it's a known thing that hypnosis is shit at recovering memories because of how suggestible people are under it, I can pretty much promise you that con artists and overconfident jackasses out there are using hypnosis for exactly that as we speak. Not to mention amateurs fucking around with people they know.

Hypnosis being a form of self-delusion as you put it unfortunately doesn't make those delusions any less real for the people that are under them when they go wrong.

>>149346348
>No? Hell, it's harder to hypnotize yourself than have someone do it for you, whether we're talking induction or suggestion.
I repeat: no one can hypnotize you. You can only hypnotize yourself. This is stone cold fact. When someone is "hypnotizing you" they are simply providing an environment where you can more easily fool yourself.
>It's possible to induce a "trance" without the person being aware
No it is not.
>Abuse
Hypnotists can abuse their patients but only via fraud - they can tell you the fantasy you dreamed up was a suppresses memory or that you were in the astral plane, but that's not some special hypnotism magic. It's just lying. The most basic of basic cons no different from palm reading.
The idea that someone could be unwillingly "tranced" and have "lowered inhibitions" exploited is utterly laughable.

>>149346425
>I repeat: no one can hypnotize you. You can only hypnotize yourself.
And I repeat, that's fucking wrong. There are various induction methods, some as simple as talking to someone in a way that confuses their brain. Not every form of induction involves the subject willingly going through visualization steps.
>No it is not.
Yes, it fucking is. A person doesn't even fucking need to know what hypnosis is to be hypnotized. It's a fucking altered mental state, not a fucking role-playing exercise.
>Hypnotists can abuse their patients but only via fraud - they can tell you the fantasy you dreamed up was a suppresses memory or that you were in the astral plane, but that's not some special hypnotism magic. It's just lying.
1. Hypnotism isn't magic
2. Having the subject believe the lie is the trick.
>The idea that someone could be unwillingly "tranced" and have "lowered inhibitions" exploited is utterly laughable.
1. I said unknowingly, not unwillingly
2. Increased susceptibility to suggestion is literally the entire fucking point of hypnosis. That's what the fucking altered mental state fucking does. It does fuck all else (generally, some people dissociate under trance, but that's besides the point). That's fucking why it can create false memories because you're more fucking willing to believe shit you imagine happened if you're told it happened under hypnosis.

You are literally just fucking wrong.

>>149346751
>you can just, like, talk to someone and induce a trance!
No.
>A person doesn't even fucking need to know what hypnosis is to be hypnotized
Yes they do. That is an absolutely basic and fundamental aspect of hypnosis - that you are entering an altered state. The expectation is everything. The whole kit and kaboodle.
>It's an altered mental state not a role-playing exercise
fun fact: it's both

>It can create false memories because...
Because the people going into these sessions WANT and EXPECT to come up with a memory and are going in for that explicit purpose.

>You are literally just fucking wrong.
You are literally just fucking retarded and half of the shit you said is the domain of incel fetishists and paranoid freaks.

>>149346910
>>149346751
oh, and unknowingly is implied in unwillingly, but to reiterate:
the idea that someone could be unKNOWINGLY trances and have lowered inhibitions exploited is utterly laughable.

There's a reason people use roofies and not fucking hypnosis.

>>149342480 (OP)
What are the legalities of mind control in a fictional universe? Am I liable if I commit a crime under Psycho Pirate’s control

>>149346910
>No.
Yes. That was one of the induction methods my cognitive behavioral therapist used.

Here's where you tell me I wasn't really hypnotized and then I tell you that I was really hypnotized and I know it because I dissociate during hypnosis and stop forming memories and it's kinda hard to confuse a memory blackout for anything else. She read off a bunch of Dr. Seuss sounding bullshit and the next thing I know it was the end of my session and she's bringing me out of trance.

I get it, you have literally no fucking idea what you're talking about. It's okay. Wait, no it's not. Shut the fuck up.

>Yes they do. That is an absolutely basic and fundamental aspect of hypnosis - that you are entering an altered state. The expectation is everything. The whole kit and kaboodle.
Oh my god, no it fucking isn't. Hypnosis is just a fucking altered mental state like flow state. If you had no idea what you were experiencing was hypnosis, it would still fucking work the same. The expectation is not everything.

>Because the people going into these sessions WANT and EXPECT to come up with a memory and are going in for that explicit purpose.
People want and expect to come up with a memory before resorting to fucking hypnosis and they don't. Hypnosis is never the first resort for that sort of shit. Belief is a component of hypnosis, but hypnosis is not just fucking belief. If it were, you wouldn't need the fucking hypnosis.

>You are literally just fucking retarded and half of the shit you said is the domain of incel fetishists and paranoid freaks.
You are literally a fucking idiot.

>>149346929
>oh, and unknowingly is implied in unwillingly,
Again, I never said unwillingly. Also, no it isn't, lol.
>There's a reason people use roofies and not fucking hypnosis.
Yeah, cause you can't put an induction method in a fucking drink. Also, not everyone is equally susceptible to hypnosis. Also, lowered inhibitions isn't no inhibitions. Honestly what a dumbass fucking point.

Mind control is a subcategory of hypnosis that 90% of all fetishism related to hypnosis is concerned with, so actual hypnosis in /co/ media is very infrequent and it’s mostly just boring eye effect shit. A good rule of thumb is that if it doesn’t involve the word ‘sleep’, it’s not hypnosis.

>>149347127
Anon
You went to a therapy session with a hypnotist
You were not unknowingly tranced by a magic selection of words, you went there to get hypnotized you goddamned cretin.
>I don't form memories when hypnotized
lmao shut the fuck up you larping faggot
not reading the rest

>>149343395
I like the AI explanation that says it's way too powerful to be hypnosis.
Only Toydarians or Hutts have some kind of immunity against it. Otherwise the Jedi can control anyone they want.

The key seems to be in the level of free will. If you lose control of your body to another being then it's mind control.

I love the pure autism of hypnosis threads

>>149347819
it draws in /x/ schizos and larpers

>>149343056
Possession might be my favorite one.

>>149342480 (OP)
Go watch the Manchurian Candidate

>>149342753
>Do you consider opening a door and walking through to be seperate actions? No, it’s the same action just in stages. It’s one thing
You have mental illness

>>149348171
Yeah. That’s what makes it the most fun

Hypnosis is a stupid fetish for boring people

Hypnosis is an awesome fetish for smart people

>>149348695
Correct.

>>149348718
Sometimes thinking all the time is painful. Sometimes people need a break

>>149348847
You’re telling me. I tend to like hypnotizing other people more than being hypnotized, but the brutal reality of having to deal with intrusive thoughts and constant dark feelings really, REALLY leaves a need to take the edge off.

Hypnosis is fedora tier PUA tricks for manipulating unassuming targets

>>149349018
Tsun tsun

>>149348925
You are a good person to give others peace of mind

^some samefag shit going on

>>149349879
>EVERYONE HAVING A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE ON THE WEBSITE I’M TRYING TO DESTROY IS LE SAME PERSON

>>149349879
Just because you dislike it doesn’t mean we’re the same person

>>149349879
Probably just thralls