The VB creators are pretty open about how they just improvise and leave open-ended avenues in their stories so they always have story options for future events. Do you think they did a good job bullshitting their way through? If you didn't know any better, would you think the entire series was planned out from episode 1, or can you see a lot of the puppet strings?

>>149395827 (OP)
Did better than Rick and Morty

Good as in it was enjoyable, bad in that they had like 20 years of free reign and feel like they squandered the last 10 of that opportunity. Terminal hipster brainrot.

>>149395827 (OP)
I really don't like how they basically made Jonas a complete bastard by the end.

>>149395827 (OP)
Mostly they did good, but with the final Jonas showdown in particular I think they fumbled the ball. Not that I blame them, it was built up so long it was almost certainly going to disappoint.

By comparison the reveal of the twins’ “mom” was much more satisfying for a similar level of expectation built up.

>>149395908
>I really don't like how they basically made Jonas a complete bastard by the end.
By the end? He was a complete bastard in Season 1.

>>149395960
True he was neglectful of Rusty, but he never beat him or mistreated him. He was just more obsessed with science than with people. I thought maybe they were going down the route where he'd get something like redemption.
Instead they made him just as bad as the supervillains he fought.
He had his redeeming traits. I thought they were going to be a bit more evenhanded.

>>149395838
VB might make shit up on the fly but Rick and Morty is a result of the crew writing themselves into a corner they never actually wanted to be in. That and the fact that R&M is a show that has a crazy turnover rate when it comes to writers. Many of which probably have conflicting visions. Fun fact, aside from Roiland's obvious absence, Harmon hasn't been the showrunners since season 4.
VB has been written by the same two guys from the beginning

>>149395827 (OP)
Cigar?

>>149396012
>the crew writing themselves into a corner they never actually wanted to be in
That and the big brain behind the series got cancelled and can't come back to help them get out of the hole they're in.

>>149396042
No thanks. I don't smoke

>>149396000
>True he was neglectful of Rusty
being "neglectful" meant Rusty was constantly being kidnapped or in life-threatening situations, it's not quite the same as not having time to play catch or something

>>149395908
That was the premise of the show

>>149395908
He was a huge bastard from the beginning.
The only real issue is the old team Venture remembering him fondly.

>>149396147
Well yeah. But that's just the nature of the over the top silver age comic book world of the venture brothers.
Him turning one of his love interests invisible and permanently ruining her life ecause he had a fetish. That's something else.

>>149396069
Roiland needed to step up in season 2/3 and pull Harmon's head out of his own ass. By the time Harmon forced the new writers in, Roiland effectively gave up (understandably). He basically created Solar Opposites to get away from him (there's a hilarious interview where Harmon asks Roiland why he didn't invite him to work on it with him)
It's too late now

>>149396254
>Roiland needed to step up in season 2/3 and pull Harmon's head out of his own ass.
Aside from an uncomfortable discussion with a friend, it's also a matter of your friend has four times the experience of running a show, dealing with studio heads, running a studio himself, and is using his studio to help make the show you two are working on. Roiland accidentally helped to create a new era of pop culture, all from some shitty Flash animation, and was getting more money than he had ever seen.

I think even if he WANTED to debate Harmon about the direction he would've preferred the show stayed in (Absurd comedy with silly improvisation), I just can't imagine him winning that debate, especially with Harmon already stacking the crew so they would vote for him when talking about story ideas.

>>149395908
Always was one, that's the whole point of the show

>>149395827 (OP)
Those two guys are fucking beasts, amazing artists multi skilled high value talnet. These are the people that should be in charge of making content. Instead we have the worst of the worst (((nepotism))), every """"artist""" working in the mainstream* field lacks even the most basic fundamentals.

You have management that cant manage shit, only listen to (((consultants))) who push fake data that they created trying to push a narrative that is mostly (((political))). These people only listen to money, but money hasn't been made. Yes people view&pay for shit but its because there is nothing else. Most people say X popular shit is boring/soulless/etc but there is nothing else to watch/buy.

Then you have the board who just try and push a graph up money must go up please investors. Thus less take more loans&credit and buy smaller companies to falsify our profits. Now this is dying and nothing has paid for all these loans. SO not only do we have a bubble for garbage, but there is also massive massive massive credit crunch fucking everywhere. Its literally 2008 but instead of housing, its literally everything ready to crash in fall because its so over evaluated then throw on 10,25,100,9001X:1 debt every company has EVEN THE GOVERNMENT has not balanced its budget since 1998. All they have done is throw on more and more debt.
WHY boomers retiring, thus draining every fucking penny they can before everything crashes because who cares about everyone else.

Normals NPC's rarely viewed old content now with streaming they have. They are only watching good old content. Look at how anime has fucking skyrocketed in popularity. Literally everyday I'm on the metro 1:10 people on their phone is literally watching anime or reading manga NO MATTER THE AGE GROUP no joke shits insane.


Companies REFUSE to allow talented people into the mainstream. Because they prove everything they have said&done is completely wrong and a waste of money.
Either nepotism or yesmen

>>149396453
When this bubble finally pops and if WWIII which will happen because of global debt imploding. Boomers will finally be gone overthrown hated and thrown to the trash.The day of the pillow is soon you fucking parasite you and your (((masters))) will die.

ONLY THEN can we refuckingbuild this garbage system. That is how fucked everything is. Only talneted multi skilled people will be allowed to work in X field. No more unskilled fucking nepotism no more parasites.

The future is listening to the most important thing when it comes to a sale. THE FUCKING CUSTOMER, DOING WHAT THEY LIKE WHAT THEY WANT WHILE ALSO BEING CREATIVE AND TRYING NEW THINGS BY DOING REAL MARKET SEARCH LOOKING INTO WHATS POPULAR NOT IN THE MAINSTREAM AND WHY ITS LIKED.


DAY OF THE PILLOW SOON BOOMERCIDE IS OUR SAVIOR UNCLE TED WAS RIGHT THE WEST MUST REMOVE ITS (((PARAHASIDIC))) USYRY TUMOR KILLING EVERYTHING LEECHING THE LIFE FORCE OF SOCIETY WHILE RETURNING NOTHING BUT POISON. The three semitic cancers will be removed from society, only then will we be free. Till that day its censorship forced garbage slop and trying to boost market share by forcing old shit that has been beaten to death but modernizing it is terrible because the people involved are the worst of the worst and do not care about not only the product
but the fucking field itself, they have no skills, no passion other than destruction of everything people enjoy.

We are literally repeating teh fall of Rome
same damn fucking reason history is repeating. people that made rome fall have replaced creation of christcuckism with leftism. Making money&market worthless fireselling everything. Worse of all flooding the west with inbred mentally retarded barbarian with no skills while firing westerns and replacing them. All so the parasite moves to another country to start the cycle all over again. But Jews wont be allow into China Africa South America, they wont be able to create a modern version of Islam the jig is finally up

>>149395827 (OP)
They did good, but also the theming of Venture Bros as a show helps them along. When the entire premise of the show is highlighting the anticlimactic human elements in adventure and hero stories, you have the freedom to make slapdash conclusions that don't have a lot of gravitas.

For example, the way Jonas ended up at the end of the Blue Morpho storyline would simply not cut it in any serious narrative, it's too obvious of a retcon and leads to an anticlimax. Same thing with ORB. But in a comedy series that is dedicated to showing you the messy human life in between the story beats? It fits perfectly

>>149396097
Cigar?

>>149396655
Meds

>>149398250
DUDE NO.

>>149395827 (OP)
I think they struggled to keep up by season 4. ATaGT was a mess because the main focus was rushing through as many plot points as possible and then they started craming EVEN more stuff in afterwards to the point they were having trouble keeping anything cohesive or satisfying

>>149395827 (OP)
>Do you think they did a good job bullshitting their way through?

they didn't do merely a "good job" they're the single best example of it.

Who is Hank and Dean's mom?

>>149395827 (OP)
I think the show had a lot of really entertaining and potential story arcs. Much better than other sitcoms at the time. However, the creators spent way too much time after meandering between S3+4 by 5 with the constant dicking around with its love for 60s Marvel nostalgia and the Venture family. Rendering it unable to branch out to developing its other characters and worldbuilding.

S5's premiere was the highlight of the series. Then the story just fucked off after Killinger left. The movie, in retrospect, was white noise. No point at all for the new characters like Bobbi or Mantilla. These references and namesakes the creators make make the series seem reductive of itself and makes it sound like it's running out of proper ideas.

I'm not looking for closure for when it comes to the Venture Bros. But I would like a point to be made for all the bullshittery and shenanigans that the characters have gone through. Who fucking cares about what Hank and Dean think about their [emotionally distant] father. At least Dean has the brighter future ahead of him.

The way I'd do it is just have the marvelslop tributes and references be tossed aside and have Rusty create a sentient Ai a la Brainiac. And kill Sgt Hatred and Hunter Gathers for good. Especially Sgt Hatred.

>>149398861
it was revealed in the end credits of the finale. Doc is their only parent. He invented an artificial womb and gave birth to the boys himself.

>>149398541
CIGAR?!

>>149398892
>Especially Sgt Hatred.
good man. I got real tired of his gimmick quick.

Who the fuck is this guy?
Why did he show Hank he was getting cucked?

For the most part, there's a couple slip ups here and there ontop of hard to thread retcons but all in all it's pretty cohesive and interesting.
>>149395908
I'm probably wrong but I got the vibe that they were going to eventually make him more "sympathetic" and almost a direct mirror of Rusty once you wipe away the good press. He's a complete Bastard but there's both cracks in his bullshit facade where he becomes as whiny and defensive as Rusty and the implication that he's the one crying over his dead son in Ben's speech. He's Rusty but successful but in the end that success didn't really make him much happier or fulfilled.

>>149399938
He was the auditor who moonlights as a clown at your birthday party.
My theory is he's just some guy but the twist is he's actually a Batman style hero distilled down to its purest essence. A quiet brooding intimidator in an animal costume. That's why he was drawn to Hank, they both like Batman

>>149399938
Dean Venture. He steals the time machine in the future to try and stop himself from sleeping with Hank's girlfriend, but comes back too early, lurks around places he knows he won't alter by being present (winding up at the Revenge Society tryouts among other places), only to realize too late the storm has already arrived, and scrambles to find Hank, then brings him to the dorm, completing the time loop.

>>149395827 (OP)
More or less yeah, a lot better than many other bullshitters
>>149395908
I didn't like it so much either. Kinda ruins the bad father nuance, good hero/scientist thing if he's just a pretty purely bad.
Not sure where the other replies are coming from, nothing jonas did was overtly as bad as fucking over morpho like that and trying to kill him. Well, except for just locking everyone down below the compound but that whole thing isn't really touched on at all

>>149396000
He zapped his nuts with a shrinking ray and had a bunch of whores laugh it up when he was sixteen. Also he was cloned A BUNCH as seen by the hair loss meaning he straight up died, yo.

>>149396453
>>149396655

>>149400059
yeah Jonas was a fucking monster which felt like the entire point, the hero was the archvillain all along

>>149399938
he's a clone of Jared, or Jared is the clone

>knows Sirena is in Jared's dorm with Dean
>knows Sirena isn't with Dean and is with Hank
>Jared isn't there in a snowstorm
>takes Hank there
>gross lower back stain
>eight pairs of eyes so two can look out of the weirdly high eyeholes of the bear suit
>brown widows are less-lethal

the only time he's definitively somewhere that Jared is not is when Jared and Sirena and Dean are at the ninja restaurant while Scare Bear is at the VenTech Tower, but he's a pastiche of spider-man so clones answers that (Brown Widow is the Canadian widow spider, Latrodectus geometricus, which is probably a nod to Nathan Fillion being Canadian-American)

he first shows up at the Impossible Industries tower after meeting Dean, through following Rusty back to Dean's apartment, and presumably used the Scare Bear disguise to check out the Revenge Society or maybe because he's a secret villain

but there's literally nobody else who knows where Sirena and Dean are that night, and that Sirena is dating Hank and to take Hank to Sirena and Dean (instead of a hospital), and nothing to explain where Jared (who does know these things) is while all this is happening unless Jared is Scare Bear

>>149398861
Debbie, Monarch's ex and Dr Girlfriend's stalker.

She traded her eggs to Rusty to get him to give her invisible powers like her mom. He then fertilized them with his sperm and put Hank and Dean in an artificial womb he wore for nine months.

While the artificial womb shit was revealed in the movie's stinger at the very end, Debbie was only revealed as the non in a bye the bye line when she revealed how she got her powers to Dr Girlfriend when she found Debbie's lair.

>>149398892
The movie was elements of the aborted season that we never got (Hank going missing/on walkabout, Order of the Triad versus some of Jefferson's old vampire rivals, Dean thinking he was vampirized) with the writers tossing in closure to the paternity arc and the mystery of Monarch/Rusty's relationship.

The original season big bad was For e Majure but they replaced him with Debbie to save the character for another time if they ever got the show fully resurrected.

>it's already been 2 years since baboon heart and army of the doomstar

huh?

>>149395908
That was the case from day 1. He's literally the overarching antagonist of the show lol.

>>149398861

>>149400157
>2 years since baboon heart and army of the doomstar
>"I know what baboon heart is, but what the fuck does anon mean by 'army of the doomstar'? That shit is definitely older then 2 years."
>Look it up
>Metalocalypse actually got a followup to the rock opera
I was just thinking about how it sucks that it was cancelled before they could get their 'finisher' recently. How the fuck did I somehow miss that it did get a followup for nearly three years? Is it any good?

>>149400359
It's funny that she says that because the whole blood claim to the sovereign title is utter bullshit. If we go strictly by the sovereign of the Guild of Calamitous Intent and apply bloodline inheritance, then by all technicality the Phantom Limb is the rightful heir since it was Phantomas who restructured "The Guild" as a collective for organized villainy. But if we go by what preceded the Guild of Calamitous Intent and applied bloodline inheritance, then it's technically Taddeus S. "Rusty" Venture, as he's the eldest surviving descendant of Col. Lloyd Venture, the last grand protector of the Orb. Calling Force Majeure the last rightful Sovreign is nonsense unless he's also like Phantomas' kid or someshit. Which I highly doubt. He had no more claim to it than the Shapeshifter.

>>149401424
True, but I like to think this whole speech is more of her ego talking and her pride to be daughter of the Force Majore, than something that is inher right to be.

>>149398250

Still don't smoke

>>149401500
>True, but I like to think this whole speech is more of her ego talking and her pride to be daughter of the Force Majore
Oh, it totally is. That's kind of the point. Everyone who claims it is just going on an ego trip because there never was any bloodline inheritance as far as leading the guild (regardless of it's iterations) goes. It's all bullshit.

>>149398861
>Who is Hank and Dean's mom?
We don't know. The series finale largely hints that it's Debra St. Simmone, but they don't explicitly say. Just like how they didn't explicitly say it was Myra so that they'd have enough wiggle room for if they decided otherwise further down the road. Which, of course, they did. If Doc and Jackson can continue the Venture Bros sometime in the future, then they have enough wiggle room to decide if they don't want Debbie to be Hank and Dean's biological mother because it's all deliberately left up in the air.

>>149395827 (OP)
I got caught up in the Venture Bros hype at the beginning of the last season, and watched the backlog from there. From my first time watching all of it, it felt like that if it wasn't entirely planned out, they were putting hints and breadcrumbs that they could return to later and expand upon. I was thoroughly convinced that near the middle of Season 3, thats when they began planning.

>>149395908
Jonas was a selfish bastard from the word go and it's amazing that Rusty isn't a shittier dad than he is.

>>149395908
I could buy it to an extent of playing up the pulp hero age like Doc Savage. He became genuinely evil around the time he started blackmailing Blue Morpho and essentially became more than a parody and was just an evil bastard. The transition could have worked if they had seeded it better earlier on.

>>149400994
>Is it any good?
It's good as a metalocalypse movie but you have to suffer through them spending the first 20 minutes undoing all the character stuff that was done in doomstar. It's a harsh fucking trade in my opinion but it's a good watch

we'll never know if he did a switcheroo or just had a super costume

>>149401595
___________Cigar?____

>>149402686
for the sake of keeping the joke i like to think it to was the costume.

>>149395908
Rusty almost piped his own sister because Jonas never bothered to tell him he had one.

>>149395908
You didn't get the show

>>149401841
>it's all deliberately left up in the air.
Watch the movie and be quiet.

>>149402720
No thank you, I don't smoke.

>>149395908
He was always a bastard, you were just never paying attention and/or were lying to yourself.

>>149395908
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, I UNDERSTAND TRUMPTARDS NOW!

>>149395908
That's kind of the point of his character. We as the viewer when we first hear about Jonas view him the same way the public at large viewed him. As this man of super science who died tragically and his son has failed to live up to his dad's success. When we meet Rusty we view him as a complete failure compared to Jonas.

However as the series progresses and we begin to learn more about Jonas we get a picture of what kind of guy he actually was. Pretty much only the hardcore inner circle of Team Venture actually liked Jonas, anyone who was arms length disliked the guy or actively hated him.

As such we as the audience start to become like Rusty and see Jonas for the bastard that he was. I mean this wasn't even a "end of series" kind of thing. In the Season 3 episode 'What Goes Down Must Come Up', Jonas straight up abandons a group of orphans underground in a fallout shelter with only an insane AI and VH1 reruns to keep them company. Jonas could have gone back and saved them at any time but he just didn't care.

All this also helps change the audience perception on Rusty. At the start of the show he's pathetic, by the end he's sympathetic and we understand why...

>>149395838
More obscure, too. Go ahed and ask the average joe if they've heard of Venture Bros.

>>149396000
>Instead they made him just as bad as the supervillains he fought
Is that really surprising? The whole thing of supervillains and super-science has always been treated as somewhat of a business that everyone gets into for an incredibly wide variety of reasons. The whole thing was always set up so that people on both sides of the conflict could just be performers be just part of the process, be pressed into it as basically a form of criminal arbitration, or they could be out-and-out psychos that actually buy into what's going on.

Actually, now that I mention it, that's a whole other layer of irony to everything going on with the Original Venture Bros. JJ inherited everything that was Jonas' facade of a good person and an "altruistic" super scientist, making him somewhat of a douche in the process but also the only real force for good. It's also why he's just Jonas' head with nothing else around it. Malcolm is everything dark about Jonas and what we're currently talking about: the one that buys into the hype, that takes everything and genuinely plays into the costume game as a menace and a psycho. Then you have Rusty, Jonas' only "actual" son but also the only one that never actually got anything from him, just had to suffer constantly riding in his wake and all the trauma that came with it.

And ironically, he's the only one that actually can turn things around, because then he reared Hank who Rusty explicitly says "actually buys into all this crap," but isn't psychotic about it as his Uncle or Grandpa. Crazy, maybe, but actually a good kid.

Meanwhile, they had 1 episode with Triana's friend Kim, her last line saying she was gonna follow up on Dr. Girlfriend's offer to do villany, and then got so mad and butthurt people latched onto her and asked when she's coming back they handwaved her off as turning full christian normie in Florida to essentially kill her off

>>149396953
This. It worked for the show.

>>149395870
Yeah as a consequence it doesn’t evolve as much.

>>149404744
Is it because Jonas Venture is the ventures bros. version of a billionaire father figure that doesn't actually give a shit about the people he claims to fight for and represent?
That applies to more than just Trump, but I get the comparison.

People really gotta stop trying to replace thier dads with celebrities or politicians.
It's not the upgrade you'd expect it to be.

Jonas got away with so much shit scot free, even dying a second time seems like an easy out for that godless cretin.

I think he'll is 'real' in that universe, so we know where we can find him in the future.

>>149395908
I know it's only one or two throwaway scenes, and they don't justify Jonas, but the scenes show that on some small level Jonas cares about Rusty. I can't think of them off the top of my head, but they're out there.

>>149406173
It is 90% implied that souls exist there in the common ways we think about them in our world. One of the most wholesome things is the show also implies the boys aren't a Black Mirror horror story where the original clones' consciousnesses pass on; The universe patchworks the souls from the last clone to the current one if only one is running around.

I say 90% at the beginning too because the show kind of never confirms if Orpheous is tapping into the spiritual realm or just magic in general, but it kind of does.