In hindsight this was a poorly done twist. Disney forgot how to write villains

Not the kind of smile you'd expect from a bad guy when nobody is watching

>>149399610 (OP)
What took you so long?
I recognized it as a bad twist when I saw the fucking thing in theaters over a decade ago

He was originally a normal goody two-shoes prince. Things changed when they decided to stop making Elsa a villain half-way through production.

>Oh, Anna. If only there was someone out there who loved you
>...What?... You said you did
>As thirteenth in line in my own kingdom, I didn't stand a chance. I knew I'd have to marry into the throne somewhere
>But... what are you talking about?
>As heir, Elsa was preferable, of course, but no one was getting anywhere with her. But you...
>Hans?
>You were so desperate for love, you were willing to marry me, just like that. I figured, after we married, I'd have to stage a little accident for Elsa
>Hans. No, stop!
>But then she doomed herself, and you were dumb enough to go after her
>Please...!
>All that's left now is to kill Elsa and bring back summer
>You're no match for Elsa
>No, you're no match for Elsa. I, on the other hand, am the hero who is going to save Arendelle from destruction
>You won't get away with this
>Oh, I already have

>>149399682
I agree that the twist was poorly handled, but I never got why people get so hung up on this specific moment. He's a human character and can have more than one emotion. He can like Anna and find her cute. He just doesn't actually love her. The fact that he's just using her doesn't mean he can't have a genuine good time flirting with a cute girl for a while. If anything it just makes him more devious that he can switch instantly from actually having a nice moment to becoming a stone cold murderer. We actually needed more shots like this to make him more complex.

>>149399682
True

>>149399850
You are correct that he can have more than one emotion but it does come up as a strange choice if that was the intention

They could very easily have just had him sneer or something instead or look conspiratorial. It’s not like they were aiming to have him get redeemed or be sympathetic in the film.

What are we supposed to gather from him smiling wholesomely instead ?

>>149399610 (OP)
it's overhated, the twist makes sense in the context of the story but definitely could have given more clues

>>149400003
The problem isn’t even necessarily a lack of clues but rather intentional obfuscation by the writers. There was very little to indicate that Hans was anything other than a nice guy generic Prince

>>149400001
>They could very easily have just had him sneer or something instead or look conspiratorial.
>Disney Doesn't know how to do twists
>The way to fix this is to telegraph the fact that the surprise villain is a villain, so there is no twist

>>149400030
I mean yeh there didn’t necessarily have to be a twist

And it would still be a twist to the characters if not necessarily the audience

>>149400051
Wasn't the point of the twist to reinforce the movie's repeated idea that you don't really know all that much about someone you just met, so you shouldn't rush into a relationship or marriage so fast? Ana being the protagonist of her plotline, I don't think it makes as much sense to give away the dramatic shock to her so early in the film. Maybe they needed better hints than they had, but not that.

>>149399610 (OP)
>In hindsight

>>149399739
He was originally going to be revealed as a villain and trigger an avalanche that Anna would have to convince Elsa to fix, and this was early enough in production that it was before they decided Anna and Elsa were sisters. Before this version of Hans, he wasn't even going to be in the movie.

>>149399610 (OP)
Frozen was always subversive trash shit. And frankly the fairy tale it was based on The Snow Queen is also shit. Am I really expected to believe a girl is going to go on a quest to rescue a boy because she likes him? Ha! Realistically speaking that girl would have been saddened her friend was kidnapped by the Snow Queen but she would never risk her life going on a journey to rescue him. She would find some other dick to suck.

Always hated such unrealistic bullshit. Same reason I don't like the original Epic Poem of Mulan, realistically speaking Mulan's father dies due to not being suited for warfare. And if he doesn't die he wouldn't be drafted to serve in the active field along with the young men he would have a senior position mentoring and away from the fighting. So the whole girl fights a war for her father's sake? That bullshit doesn't work not even in fiction.

And don't get me started on the mythological story The Odyssey. If you think a wife is going to stay loyal to a husband who she had good reason to consider he's dead from the moment her son is born until said son's young adulthood you are deluded. I don't respect any story that lies about Female Nature.

All three of these are shit. And damn anyone who disagrees with me.

>>149400505
Are you ok anon?

>>149400025
I mean, that does make the movie less interesting on a rewatch, and give you less opportunity to guess the twist, but at the same time, all reveals are intentional obfuscation. I don't know why some people have developed an allergy to "dishonest" filmmaking in recent years. All storytelling/art is fakery. Filmmakers are playing with your emotions. They wanted you to feel that Hans was a nice guy who cared about Anna so you would feel just as betrayed as she does when he is revealed to only want the throne. I think people misdiagnose what goes wrong with the movie's writing the moment the twist is revealed. Hans's original plan to marry her and bump off Elsa is sound. Hans's revised plan to reveal to Anna his evil scheme, lock her in without killing her, say to everyone else outside the room that they just got married in there with no witnesses and no one officiating, and then be the "Hero" by killing the current queen who's a monster makes way less sense. If he's doing this as a last minute correction, why is he so cavalier about it? If he genuinely thinks this plan is good, he's not as smart as he would need to be to successfully disguise his intentions earlier in the film. The third act was reworked, that much we know, and it seems it was reworked a number of times, because before the avalanche version
>>149400306
There was a version where Elsa was the villain the whole time. It seems they kept reworking the film to try to be less cliche or predictable, and sacrificed internal consistency.

>>149399778
And if the movie was well written Hans would have won. Elsa was a horrible ruler. She literally stopped all trade which I'm sure negatively impacted employment in Arendelle. And the only thing Elsa ever did to "educate" herself to rule her kingdom was.......be a stupid shut in who feels sorry for herself all the time from youth to adulthood. That is a terrible person to be a leader. She doesn't even know how to speak to her own blood let alone the citizens who are strangers. And don't get me started on how Frozen 2 had Anna be the new queen who is a bigger idiot than Elsa.

I just hate these movies so much. And I really hated how the citizens of Arendelle celebrated when Hans got punched in the face by Dumb Bitch Anna. Why are they happy? Did they hear his scheme? No. From their perspective Anna punched out the guy who was rescuing people from freezing to death. Seeing that only made me wish Hans killed the people of Arendelle for being ungrateful.

>>149399610 (OP)
Surprised that Disney hasn't remade Frozen in live action. And don't bother saying Don't Give Them Ideas. Come on its coming the only annoying part is how long its taking Disney to do this. Same to Tangled and we know Moana is on its way for its live action bastardization. So its amiss that Frozen and Tangled haven't gone this route.

Do people just not like twist villains in general now? I remember when the Acolyte revealed Manny Jacinto was the villain, everyone blasted it for being too obvious, but most of the criticisms of Hans are that it wasn't obvious enough. I've never seen this criticism leveled at say, Stinky Pete from Toy Story 2, and I agree that that one was done well, but I can't put my finger on why that one was better. It's certainly less rushed than Hans, as we get an opportunity to actually see him as the villain throughout the third act, something Mayor Bellwether also has an issue with. It's easier to write him consistently, as he wants the same things throughout the movie, and we only find out more about him and how far he's willing to go to achieve his goals, whereas Hans is revealed to want something wildly different. But it's not exactly telegraphed more. Pete is for all appearances a friendly voice representing an alternative path throughout most of the movie, and only retroactively is it clear he did manipulative things like turn on the TV. Most of the fixes people are suggesting for Hans seem to be that the movie needed to tell us that there was going to be a twist, which like, defeats the whole point of it being a twist.

A good twist can stand up to, and encourages, the audience to re-evaluate what they've already seen in light of the new information. That doesn't work here.

It's shit.

>>149399610 (OP)
You'd better send them a memo.

>>149399610 (OP)
This garbage movie ruined a whole 2 generations of women with the gurl boss bullshit and the stupid satanic song

>>149399610 (OP)
He's based on the mirror from the original story, he's supposed to mirror other characters in their scenes

>>149401778
I thought he was based on The Wicked Prince, another HCA story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wicked_Prince

>>149399610 (OP)
It took a whole year to stop the bitch from stomping every time it got to the "here I stand" part

>>149399610 (OP)
It didn’t really make sense. Nothing was choreographed and he was chill up until that point. Could have easily made it the weaselton guy with zero issue.

>>149399610 (OP)
Not enough screen time and hints were dropped so that the betrayal stung more.

>>149400820
It’s not a twist, a twist is supposed to be intelligent and have some kind of “oh shit” effect. This is just causes a “what? why?”. Hans has nothing that would ever indicate him as being anything close since his character is basically just “handsome prince that Anna fell for” outside of that he doesn’t have much development and sort of does generic noble prince shit. It’s like they couldn’t figure out how to get the plot moving or get a way for Elsa to come back and help shit so they just thought “eh let’s make him the villain”. If your only excuse for doing something is “it moved the plot forward” then it’s not well written.

>>149400820
A twist should recontextualize previous scenes in a movie, like how in Toy Story 2 if you pay attention you’ll notice on a second viewing that Pete seems to really hate the idea of being played with which is weird for a toy, or how when the other characters are fucking around in a toy store, all the unsold toys can get out of and back in their boxes pretty easily which hints that Pete can too. Even the Disney’s other shitty twist villains that came afterwards still had SOME foreshadowing
>In Big Hero 6, after the teacher guy is revealed to be the main bad guy and that his plan is to kill the CEO for stranding his daughter in the Warp or whatever it was, if you go back and watch the beginning of the movie, you’ll noticed that the teacher is super nice to everyone EXCEPT the CEO.
>In Zootopia, Bellwether has a sticky note on her computer reminding her to call someone called Doug, which is turns out is the name of the guy making the drug that making all the predators go nuts (and also I think after the Judy pisses off everyone at press conference she says something that sounds like reassurance at first, but is actually congratulatory because Bellwether wants everyone angry? I don’t remember what it was exactly, it’s been a while and I’m too lazy to look it up.)
And you might wanna argue that none of that foreshadowing was actually that deep, and you’re right HOWEVER at least it was actually there to hint at their malevolence. The only thing Hans had was a single line during his and Anna’s song where he pretended to finish her sentence, but that didn’t make him look evil or even mean, just shallow which was probably the intended goal before they made him the villain.

>>149399610 (OP)
He looks stupid with those sideburns. You can absolutely tell Frozen is from the early 2010s

>>149401431
Fag

>>149400561
You don't lie to your audience. That's disrespectful and an insult to their intelligence.

>>149399610 (OP)
Making him an unironic villain was retarded. Disney had a love triangle balanced on their fingertips for sequelbait to hook little girls onto for years between formal yet responsible typical prince Hans or roughneck but easygoing Kristoff and they fucked up. Twilight was proof girls will go feral for their ships if two fairly equal guys are up for grabs.

>>149399610 (OP)
It's because Elsa was supposed to be the villain and they pulled back on it

>>149399610 (OP)
Blame Jennifer Lee and her misandrist agenda

>>149399610 (OP)
>only real proof of his evil is his actions after he speaks to Anne in private
>before then, he has glances that can be reinterpreted in malevolence after and a whole lot of stuff that wouldn’t
>only goes revealing evil after taking off his gloves and touching the cursed Anna’s bare skin with his hand, where he’s about to pull in Anna for a kiss
They set up an out for themselves if it had really backfired, the curse just made sure Anna couldn’t make new love connections that could save her. Still, the better version should have been Hans kisses her and it doesn’t work, because they JUST met, and he freaks out and thinks killing Elsa will save everyone so it’s the only way to fix this.

>>149405928
That wouldn't have worked. Girls attached themselves to Elsa, not Anna.

>>149399850
Why not just cut it? Easy cut. Just show Hans falling into the fjord again and end it there. They kept it in there to fuck with the audience.