Counterpoint: Rogol Zaar just whooped his ass. No Kryptonite assist. No funny business. Just straight up beat him into the ground and left him for dead.

>>149450999 (OP)
Let me guess, Bendis is needing people to shill his comics lately.

It was in Man of Steel 2018 Issue #5.

>>149450999 (OP)
That was the best Bendis could come up with? Terrax with a piranha face? That was the answer to his complaining that Superman has no decent villains, so he made another generic big guy like Mongul/Kalibak/Darkseid/Doomsday/Lobo...

>>149451026
Nah, you don't get to blame Bendis for this. He's a normal comic book writer. It wasn't an alternate universe. It wasn't a result of distraction or Superman pulling his punches.

A big mean space-monster dude showed up and just punched Superman's frickin' lights out. Straight up slept him.

>>149451065
Looks more like those Yuuzhan Vong dudes from the Star Wars EU.
The character lore is fine imho.

>>149450999 (OP)
>>149451065
Anyone whose idea for a Superman villain is, "Well THIS one can actually beat him up in a fight!" is by their very nature, a hack.

That said, when's the last time we actually got a good new villain for Superman?

>>149450999 (OP)
Shit, when are we getting more of Rogol Zaar? Surely such an iconic villain, with such a deep connection to Superman's past, is just brimming with stories to tell, right? Why haven't we seen him since?

>>149450999 (OP)
Why Rogol Zaar never saves the multiverse?

>>149451146
It's a big galaxy, once you leave Earth Superman's powers ain't really all that impressive.

>>149451153
He's kind of due for a comeback, as his story wasn't finished.
>>149451217
He could fight on Superman's side given the right circumstances, he's not 100% pure evil.

Fuck off Bendis

>>149451146
>That said, when's the last time we actually got a good new villain for Superman?

When was the last time we got a good new villain period?

>>149451039
He also beat him on this page, which was the 3rd page of Rogol Zaar's first appearance.
If not for Supergirl intervening Clark would have died.

>>149451379
I like Dario Agger...when Al Ewing is writing him. I know people don't like Dan Slott but I actually do like Mr Negative both visually and in execution. Uhhhh I guess Titanoboa in the Serpent Society is cool looking even if I came up with the idea of a Titanoboa themed SerpSoc member first. That's about it off the top of my head.

Pretty sure Darkseid, Doomsday, Zod, Bizarro, and Lobo at the least have "won" fights against Superman. As in won the physical confrontation and Supes only got the win through help from friends or exploiting plot devices.
Superman gets beat up and put in crisis all the time. People who say he "just wins" are stupid.

>>149451501
Dario Agger pro tip: read him in the voice of Penn Jillette

>>149450999 (OP)
>counterpoint to invincibilty making supes boring is to point out a time he wasn't invincible

>>149450999 (OP)
Superman lost to Godzilla. Not a clean finish because he was saving Billy Batson, but Godzilla's atomic breath nearly killed Superman and put him in a coma.

>>149451526
Yes? The counterpoint is that the idea that Superman is "invincible" is simply factually wrong.

>>149451379
Mother Righteous.

>>149451313
Kinda makes you wonder why everyone always talks about how boring and invincible Superman is.

>>149450999 (OP)
>Rogol Zaar just whooped his ass. No Kryptonite assist. No funny business. Just straight up beat him into the ground and left him for dead.
Counterpoint: Rogol Zaar fucking sucks

>>149451903
How can you possibly claim that the man who destroyed Krypton could suck? He's the strongest villain Superman has ever fought!

>>149451903
>Rogol Zaar fucking sucks
what's your problem with him?

>>149452027
Just like all the others, anon.

>>149450999 (OP)
Strange how they never use Black Zero

>>149451505
>People who say he "just wins" are stupid.

What annoys me is when people fail to realize that there are conflicts beyond just beating people up.

>>149451146
This is because before doomsday, superman lack villains that he could throw hands with.

>>149450999 (OP)
>Rogen Seth
Of all powerhouses Supes has faced you picked the most boring one

>>149452268
>what are Darkseid, Mongul, Zod

>>149451146
Manchester Black was the last good new villain

>>149450999 (OP)
Only rare, very powerful can threaten superman without kryptonite. This means the story either has to be written so the planet-threatening forces from beyond need to become an every day occurrence, which doesn't make sense, or that they show up rarely and most of the time he's not in danger.

This isn't hard to understand.

>>149452597
what's so boring about him?

>>149452674
There are plenty of other villains who trouble superman without needing to threaten him in a 1v1 fight. This is another reason why the "superman is boring because he's invincible" people are very stupid.

I never understood the "Rogal Zaar is boring" criticisms.

>>149452731
What I am saying is that it's tiring for a super-man appropriate level threat to constantly show up.

>>149451088
>Nah, you don't get to blame Bendis for this.
Yes we do.

>>149452624
Wasn't a superman villain, rarely used, and exiled from continuity.

>>149452704
His design

>>149450999 (OP)
I find it funny that's the argument. Superman has tons of great stories in spite of his powers.

Now if you look at those shitty korean stories where the entire thing is a power fantasy you'll be hard pressed to find one with an engaging story.

>>149451313
I think Marvel does that a little better. In the greater space cosmic scheme of things, a punchy strong guy is not that impressive. The big space movers and shakers are typically blasty energy guys. And Marvel seems to have a wider variety of those. While strong guys that punch things never amount to a whole lot in space.

>>149451088
>It wasn't a result of distraction or Superman pulling his punches.
Lies!

>>149452842
That's kind of what Superman is for the last 40 years. He's a galactic-level book that takes place on Earth.

>>149450999 (OP)
Only interesting thing about the guy is the time he got involved in the Tamaran Thanagar war.

I've seen quite a lot of bad takes on Superman since the recent film came out. One earlier today was "Superman is supposed to be the perfect being. He's supposed to be a god".

No? Superman is *supposed* to be the character of Superman from DC comics, who is not anything like that at all. Superman is a specific character, not your random head-canon.

>>149451313
Green Lantern is just a local cop.

>>149452812
It's because he's fucking invincible.

>>149450999 (OP)
That's why Rogol Zaar is so cool. He can kick Superman's Kryptonian ass without the aid of Kryptonite, red sun radiation, and magic. Bless our lord and savior Bendis for creating such a wonderful character. Hope the sun will raise again and Rogol Zaar would be there kicking Superman's ass again.

Rogol Zarr<<<<<<<<BLACK ZERO

Fuck Bendis. Bring back Nuclear Man

>>149452842
>What I am saying is that it's tiring for a super-man appropriate level threat to constantly show up.

And I'm saying you never read a superman comic ever

>>149453167
Once the threats in Dragon Ball started being planetary+ the Earth kind of stopped mattering as a backdrop. I mean did it matter much that the Cell games took place on Earth and not Namek? The trouble is comics want to make the Earth an important back drop.

>>149450999 (OP)
I sure can't wait for Tom Taylor to write Superman again, and for Clark to adopt Rogol Zaar's estranged daughter Ronnie Zaar.

>>149450999 (OP)
NOBODY LIKES RAGGLE FRAGGLE

>>149453593
Except he isn't.

superman is boring because he doesn't destroy evil. Instills weird pacifist morality to children and manchilren. is this why liberals gave george floyd a gold plated coffin yet ignore the hard working black family trying to get by.

>>149453673
>>149453687
Weird how these characters aren't used more.

>>149452268
those are the most boring villain's though. superman cant fight for shit anyway. his villain's should all be smarter than him

>>149451088
Sure, Bendis

>>149450999 (OP)
Mongul is better

>>149452268
Like >>149452624 said, there were already a few. That post also forgot about Bizarro

>>149452653
It's a shame they killed him off so soon. He really works as a foil to Superman. Hell if anything, he could've been his Venom.

>>149452858
It was pretty dumb how they just did nothing with the classic Zod for like 20 years until Geoff Johns and Richard Donner got onto Action Comics.

>>149453795
Even when Buu was blowing shit up on earth it didn't feel like it mattered. Especially when you get a cartoon funny afterlife filled with everyone as a cartoon funny ghost with a tail and everything.

>>149454326
>It was pretty dumb how they just did nothing with the classic Zod for like 20 years until Geoff Johns and Richard Donner got onto Action Comics.
It is because of the post crisis lore nuke, it really screwed up superman in the long run.

>>149454326
>That post also forgot about Bizarro

And Metallo, and Brainiac, and Parasite

>>149454355
>It is because of the post crisis lore nuke, it really screwed up superman in the long run.
>made them create an entirely different Supergirl with a convoluted as fuck origin
>took the Legion of Super-Heroes out of his origin, which made him so much less interesting and also screwed their lore right the fuck up
>couldn't do Zod and the evil Kryptonians for so long
God this really was just an ass decision wasn't it

>>149454356
To be fair to Metallo and Parasite, they've always been weaker than Supes until the former busts out his Kryptonite heart and other weaponry and the latter absorbs his power. And with Brainiac, iirc, his Post-Crisis versions just used telepathy until the 2000's.

>>149454037
>superman is boring because he doesn't destroy evil.
that's true of the overwhelming majority of comic book heroes.

bump

>>149453673
>Having to rely on Kryptonite even though you have reality-warping superpowers.
This is your GOAT? Rogol Zarr, the coolest of Superman's enemies, would crush him.

>>149450999 (OP)
Such nice trips,wasted
Bendis fucked up,rogol is a word for a crescent pastry for half of europe and he looks like monguls redneck cousin
Shit retcon and shit look

>>149451026
The comic book writer Bendis?

>>149455301
>would crush him
How can he when Black Zero can turn into a phantom AT WILL. Rap'n Zar wouldn't even see it coming when DEADLY Phycho-Molecules are projected straight into his brain. It would be as easy as when Black Zero destroyed Krypton.

So what was Rogol Zaar's actual origin?

>>149451088
>Nah, you don't get to blame Bendis for this.
Do you not read comics or something?

>>149453222
The only interesting thing about this guy i sthat the turned the Tamarans into Space Jewish

>>149450999 (OP)
How does getting beaten by a boring villain make him interesting?

>>149455740
He was created by Jor-El.

>>149455740
He was created by Jor-El.
That's...about it. Bendis didn't bother to give him anything else. But really, do you NEED anything else? This is the guy who destroyed Krypton, he's the strongest! We don't need things like 'motivations' or 'personality,' he can punch really hard, he destroyed Krypton! He's Rogol Zaar!

>>149450999 (OP)
It just shows you how uncreative a vast majority of western comic authors are. No one ever says: "Goku/Luffy/Naruto is boring because he's strong."

bump

>Jor El is le evil
>Rogol Zaar is the creation of evil kryptonians
My Adventures With Superman will totally use him....

i can't believe Robert Z'dar defeated Superman

>>149451039
>"Me boy?"

holy shit lol

>>149451088
>You can't blame Bendis for Rogal Zarr
Kek

Is Rogol Zaar a play on Robert Z'dar?

>>149457314
>>149457609
IT'S NOT ROBERT Z'DAR

Oh shit it's Royal Zorn, Bendis' greatest creation

>>149457274
Good thing it got cancelled

>>149457973
What was his name again?

>>149456393
>He was created by Jor-El.
That felt like a late-story ass pull. The comic that introduces him heavily implied a different origin. He also had a different personality and speaking cadence in his first couple of appearances. He tells the civilians he has no issue with them and warns them away, and then praises Superman's fighting spirit. Then when he's got Superman at his mercy there's this page where he chooses to just not kill him.

>>149457340
As in you can't blame it on a guest writer. Bendis, like him or not, is a regular comic book writer and what he has written is canon.

>>149453222
>Tamaraneans brought guys with spears and shields, some were riding on space iguanas
>Thanagarians brought space ships, guys with rifles, and other floating vehicles with big guns.

It would have been an insane one-sided slaughter without Roger Zeeman hanging with them.

>>149453673
So did this start the whole trend of new writers wanting to make their own super special spin on Krypton blowing up? Seems like guys who are more interested in leaving a mark they can brag about make up a special villain that did it instead of natural disaster like before.

>>149453687
I'm kind of surprised DC never really tried to adapt this guy, I guess because the movie was considered awful later on so they avoided mention of it?

>>149451146
A good writer knows that a good Superman villain is one he can't just punch out. Because if it's a matter of 'might makes right', Superman is going to win every time.
But if you give him a villain he can't just punch out, a bad guy he has to either reach morally to redeem, or disprove on a philisophical level. That's a villain people are going to remember.
Problem is nobody wants to have Superman do more than just punch out a bad guy, because he's a character who has to be all things to all people. If he actually comes out and says 'i think this way of life and set of morals is wrong'. People are going to call that Superman writer bigoted.
Superman hasn't been relevant since the 90s because he can't stand for anything anymore because him actually standing for something bigger than selling movie tickets would alienate customers and divide audiences.

>>149453687
I do kind of want a evil Superman type in a proper evil Superman costume like this. Zod rarely wears anything by typical gray stuff or the Terrance Stamp silk shirt. I want a Superman Black Adam or Zoom type of villain with his own iconic look. Nuclear Man actually does have a better look than most evil Kryptonians.

>>149458445
Season 3 is still in production. But it will likely be the last one.

>>149454043
It's mostly rights issues. While WB owns most of the Superman mythos, certain rights to certain characters were in limbo for years.
Zod couldn't show up in the DCAU Superman show because of those rights issues, so they used another kryptonian villain Jax-Ur instead.
It's probably a similar issue with Nuclear Man.

>>149453795
That is probably why Superman stands out a bit, the fact that he does a lot of street level heroing. While most superheroes that are above the street level do not do a lot of street level crime fighting. They stick to stopping top tier villains and alien invasions. Superman still takes time to go handle bank robbers and purse snatchers. While usually that is kept in the realm of Batman, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Green Arrow, etc.

>>149451026
Bendis?

>>149453555
Should be more powerful than Supes though, how can Superman Outclass emotion magic with sheer brute strength and raw physical abilty?

>>149454432
I don't understand how the Only 1 Kryptonian rule really stood in the way of a Zod like character for so long. Okay so he can't be a Kryptonian, make him a general in some other alien army that is similarly powered, they had lots of those in the 60s too. Daxamites never went anywhere post Crisis. Or make him a general from a planet that was previously conquered by Kryptonians and they made the ultimate counter to Kryptonian powers etc. They could have done so many things other than a Russian guy in stupid looking armor.

>>149458445
MAWSTRANNY GOT CANCELLED? Trump did something good at last

>>149459517
>Problem is nobody wants to have Superman do more than just punch out a bad guy, because he's a character who has to be all things to all people.
Morrison said that Superman is the ACTION Comics MAN, so sorry if Superman not punching doesn't fit your headcanon lmao

>>149454633
Maybe that's why anime heroes are more compelling nowadays?

>>149459517
>Problem is nobody wants to have Superman do more than just punch out a bad guy, because he's a character who has to be all things to all people. If he actually comes out and says 'i think this way of life and set of morals is wrong'. People are going to call that Superman writer bigoted.
We just had Superman Smashes the Klan a few years ago and people fucking loved it.

>>149455740
Jor-el made him, nothing else after that, then he became some guy that took odd jobs for the big players in the universe and fought in space wars etc. We never found out why Jor el made him either or what his function was. But somehow he really really hates Kryptonians and wants them all dead real bad. Also he destroyed Krypton because the leaders of Rann and Tamaron asked him to.

No one elaborated on anything else with the guy. Just some angry guy that hates Kryptonians and he kills people real bad a whole lot.

Considering he is still alive and the United Planets has him locked up, but they never bothered using him when Mongul attacked, or used him during all the durlan takeover stuff in Green Lantern, it appears no other writer wants to both with him again. He probably died when Mogo blew up Thanagar.

>>149451313
I think Batman Offworld should have Superman join in, and get his shit slapped so he ALSO has to develop his shit more instead of his "I know every kryptonian martial art...but I never use them except once in a blue moon for 1 panel in a miniseries. Make Superman at LEAST a kickboxer instead of Henry Haymaker. I'm not asking for a superpowered fucking NINJA, just have Supes use basic roundhouses, elbows, and knees. Super Muay Thai.

>>149451313
>I think Batman Offworld should have Superman join in, and get his shit slapped so he ALSO has to develop his shit more instead of his "I know every kryptonian martial art...but I never use them except once in a blue moon for 1 panel in a miniseries". Make Superman at LEAST a kickboxer instead of Henry Haymaker. I'm not asking for a superpowered fucking NINJA, just have Supes use basic roundhouses, elbows, and knees. Super Muay Thai.

>>149459653
Green Lanterns are possibly the worse example of the main title character being an unstoppable force, while the noname background characters are basically useless mooks that exist to die miserably. Most of the time they just sort of float around and shoot harmless lasers.

Meanwhile Hal fucks with the source wall, fucks with the speed force, takes on new gods and defeats Zod and Henshaw in physical confrontations.

The other side of it is that Superman writers are all too often hardcore Superman fanboys who bring this concept of no one should ever ever be as powerful as him to their work and they MUST portray Superman as effortlessly walking through any lanterns he sees without trouble.

>>149459729
Kys tranny

>>149459790
It's not controversial to say 'racism bad' it's a lot more controversial to say 'Abortion on demand is bad' or 'We shouldn't get involved in the middle east'.

According to this Rogol Zaar is a metaphor for Anti-Semitism.
Basically his hate, bigotry for kryptonians is a metaphor for hate on jews, he hates them for no reason and just thinks them as a disease because no reason and multiple reasons like them deserving it or being born bad.
Which could be since Bendis did make Kryptonians space jewish.
Problem is:
Jor-El CREATED Rogol Zaar, does that means this metaphor is implying that jews CREATED antisemitism?
WTF Bendis? You based?

>>149460241
Kryptonians deserved it

>>149451379
This nigga right here.

They desperately need to use Mr. Bloom more. Easily the creepiest and coolest villain in ages and he existed for all of like, one or two arcs. Everything about him from his design to what he actually does is awesome and he could easily be a big player in the Batman universe alongside the greats if they brought him back. Personally I am really hoping that, with the entire concept of what's currently going on in Absolute Batman, he gets to show up as one of Ark M's primary mutation researchers or something.

>>149461101
Fuck, forgot pic

>>149451379
Controller Mu and Belzebeth in Morrison Lantern

>>149460742
Supes newb here.
Did they?

>>149462265
Yes, they use the Phantom Zone to punish everyone they didn't like, and it was a literal torture, like being in coma but perpetually aware of the passing of time, true psycopath sadistic behavior

>>149450999 (OP)
Is he still canon

>>149462499
>everyone they didn't like
just in general? The only time I've ever seen it was the movie.

>>149459805
Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they just retconned that shit completely considering how Waid recently portrayed Jor-El, and how no one liked the stupid retcon that Rogol Zaar destroyed Krypton.

>>149462761
Well comic lore Jax Ur got sent there because he wanted to travel to space but destroyed a moon, that's why they banned space travels

>>149462761
Kryptonians used to be space barbarians and had colonies on the moon and a nearby plant called Daxam but then scientists rebelled and took over. The Phantom Zone is what it says, you get hit with the projector, you become a ghost till someone uses it to pull you out. Zod was the head of their version of Nasa and Jor-el's boss. If I remember right, the Phantom Zone Projector was built after they failed to stop Braniac from stealing the capital, Kandor. Jax Ur was sent in after his rocket malfunction blew up the moon causing space travel to be suspended. That made Zod loose it and try to take over the planet with an army of clones.

>>149462889
>>149463276
huh, maybe I should read more Superman

>>149462789
>how Waid recently portrayed Jor-El,
They might do a "he had the best intentions but backfired"
>and how no one liked the stupid retcon that Rogol Zaar destroyed Krypton.
I do

Hey, somebody had a video on youtube saying the Superman we know is actually a hideous alien that shapeshifted himself as an infant to match the Kents, and he didn't remember it until someone revealed it to him? What's up with that?

>>149450999 (OP)
hey, it's iconic villain Rooper Zooper

>>149463575
literal fanfiction from Aaron Diaz

>>149459528
Zod mostly looks like this these days, which is perfectly fine for "Evil Superman". We also have
>Eradicator, but he's mostly a boring robot
>Hank Henshaw, the Cyborg Superman. But he's kinda more of a Green Lantern villain now.
>Ultraman but he's on Earth 3

>>149458445
S3 is in production right now. They confirmed last year, and were recording voice work for it last September.

>>149463647
Not since last year when they killed off Ursa, Eradicator and destroyed his planet.

Now he is right back to Terrance Stamp in a black pirate shirt. And he runs a prison barge full of alien criminals.

>>149463553
>They might do a "he had the best intentions but backfired"
Already did, basically he made the Phantom Zone Projector but it wasn't his intention to use it as a prison.
>I do
I'm actually curious as to why?

>>149462265
People in space genuinely hate Kryptonians since they were an ever expanding empire that conquered everyone a few thousand years ago. Thanagarians, Rannians, and Dominators remember it.

>>149463553
You actually like Ragul Saar? I thought this thread was bait.

>>149460241
I don't remember his debut origin but looking at how Bendis forget stuff it was an asspull to have it part of the Jor El is evil and kidnap Jon plot, probably Bendis intended Rogol to be like Despero, no origin needed is just an asshole with super strenght

>>149463575
>>149463641
That was an Ethan Van Sciver drawn comic wasn't it? Anyway if I recall it was revealed to be an alien slug thing trying to mess up with his mind to make him go rogue

>>149457319
Crabs...

>>149464116
Rogol will be his Frankenstein while Phantom Zone his nuclear bomb
>>149464175
He is like a fixed Doomsday related directly to Krypton, very interesting and makes him his forced archenemy and related to his last son of Krypton legacy of even the bad things of Krypton

>>149465178
Wouldn't that make him the forced archenemy of Doomsday tho?

>>149465178
He's just a repeat of Doomsday and Doomsday was already pretty lame, Jor-El also being responsible for the destruction of Krypton is extremely stupid.