Thoughts on the Ultimates? I wanted to reread it again after all these years (christ has it been that long?) I remember being part of the hyped when it first came out but looking back now I can't say I liked it very much. All the edgy bullshit would be one thing but this was also around when comics started to try really hard to be "cinematic" which just annoys me to no end.

It functions as a really interesting time capsule for the early 2000s. I dislike Millar for a variety of reasons but I feel like that man has pacing down to a science, so the book isn’t a slog at all. I get the problem with being cinematic, but this was one of the trailblazers for that vibe, and it does it well. I think the villains in Ultimates 1 aren’t very interesting at all, Ultimates 2 is much better off in that regard.

>>149529679 (OP)
It's like reading a Michael Bay movie. That's both and good a bad thing. Of course Ultimates 3 is worse in every way but think of that as a trashier sequel by another director. And then there's Ultimatum. Loeb really fucked things up.

>>149529679 (OP)
I don't like Bryan Hitch, and the writing ultimately made me drop it. I still kind of want to give it another go, but those celeb jokes are rough.

>>149529679 (OP)
Can't be worse than the current Ultimates run.

>>149529738
Speaking of time capsules looking back I also find Ultimate Marvel a bit fascinating when compared to Heroes Reborn which was still, at the time, a recent memory. I wonder if that could have ever survived had they not made it look like the "main line"

>>149529749
I at least kind of like the Joe Mad art in 3. But boy was it lowbrow.

>>149529840
It is so, so much worse.

>>149529840
They're bad for different reasons. Though I guess this one edges closer competence.

>>149529840
Eh, about the same.

>>149529679 (OP)
It's like numetal and Jynco Jeans, it perfectly represents an era. In many ways it's even more of "what if Marvel was image," than >>149529846 was.

>>149529846
>But boy was it lowbrow.
Weren't Pietro and Wanda just straight up fucking? I stopped after the first issue of that.

>>149530636
>Weren't Pietro and Wanda just straight up fucking?

Yes. It confused Captain America very much. Also Black Widow had a sex tape released online. Sure doesn't get more 2000s than that.

>>149530680
Man, what an insane shift in tone and art.

>>149530680
>hawkeye has a bullseye on his forehead because he's suicidal after losing his family
>brotherhood attack while thor (who speaks like his 616 self and not normal like the ultimate version did before) was having sex with a teenage girl that joined the team
>wolverine cucked magneto in the past
>wolverine watched wanda and pietro fucking in the savage land
>most of the avengers were replaced with ultron robots
>captain america was black panther the entire time
>valkyrie, thor's teen fuckbuddy, is almost raped by pyro
>wanda is shot and it's revealed that ultron did it because she was flirting with one of his robots and he was jealous of her incestuous relationship with pietro
>there are two other "it was actually me behind everything" reveals after that
>ultimates 3 ends with magneto taking thor's hammer and flying off with it and a chunk of the savage land
What a smutty, idiotic mess of a story. And to think it gets worse after that. So much worse.

>>149529679 (OP)
I like it. But I wish they went with "Thor is crazy" instead of "Thor is Thor"

>>149530896
I wish that we didn't get a definitive answer. That reveal at the end of the second run basically just made it too much like 616, imo.

>>149530777
It was trying really hard to be shocking and "grown up" in a very blunt and frankly immature way. Like I can see Wizard running "NOT YOUR GRANDPA'S AVENGERS."

>>149529679 (OP)
It is funny to see how much of the Ultimates is in early MCU stuff.

>>149530777
Smutty? Really, granny?

>>149530924
the first Avengers movie had more than a few passing similarities to the animated Ultimate Avengers movie. But yeah it was still pretty relevant when Iron Man came. I don't think Ultimatum even happened yet.

>>149530935
>first page is the sex tape
>the entire team is watching black widow give tony a blowjob
Yes.

>>149530964
>Pietro and Wanda getting turned on and running off to fuck

It was a lot.

>>149530948
Yeah, iron man was 7ish months before Ultimatum. It's kind of weird to think that Iron Man was that early but also Ultimate Universe was that late. My conception of the early 2000s is completely borked.

>>149529679 (OP)
I remember the internet (or at least GameFAQs' comics board) thinking this was one of the funniest lines ever. I think that changed when the MCU really got popular and people looked back at these comics.

>>149531174
A lot of Ultimates has a really casual and frankly cynical idea of what some of this stuff should be like. Cap was really played up as being old fashioned which was something 616 Steve never was even in his own time and the less said about how they did Hank the better.

>>149531186
I can see why it was popular at the time (I was an incredibly shitty high schooler when the first series came out) but looking back on it, Millar really focuses on the absolute ugliest, most cynical shit. His Authority run is really fuckin' mean spirited.

>>149530777
>captain america was black panther the entire time
I misunderstood this and imagined Steve pulling his face off Scooby Doo style to reveal a black man underneath

>>149531215
I don't mind the Authority so much and even like it okay but it's its own thing and now some edgefest wearing the skin of a separate franchise. In the 2000s when it came out it was the same kind of shocking energy hype that made Disassembled catch with people then that's also something I feel probably didn't retain freshness with hindsight. Also good christ did these books really come out within three years of each other? It's not wonder I fell back out of marvel. The 2000s were rough.

>>149531245
It was disassembled, then house of m, then civil, pretty much one right after the other. Bendis and Millar were runnin' marvel there for a second.

>>149531245
>I don't mind the Authority so much and even like it okay but it's its own thing and now some edgefest wearing the skin of a separate franchise
I mean, he took characters that Warren Ellis had been developing for several years at that point and literally raped and tortured them, so, in a way, it kind of was. The tonal whiplash from the Ellis run to the Millar run is insane. Ellis is "edgy" like a teenager wearing a satanic metal shirt to church, Millar is edgy like a kid in the schools computer lab shouting nigger at the top of his lungs while watching BME pain Olympics.

>>149531256
And here I once thought we'd never get worse than The Crossing.

>>149531240
Ha I do see how that can be taken the other way.

>>149529679 (OP)
How Ultimate were they though?

>>149529679 (OP)
>this was also around when comics started to try really hard to be "cinematic" which just annoys me to no end

Why? The one thing about that era that I think HAS held up is the "widescreen" style. The hollywood imitating and "everyone is an asshole now" writing style are what HASN'T.

>>149529840
>>149529970
It's not. Try making the current one into a movie with a few tweaks, see how many people show up.

>>149529679 (OP)
Unironically too smart for /co/, which is a low bar but still

>>149534365
How?

>>149534720
It's a comic for edgy self-aggrandizing midwits

>>149530908
That's Ultimates biggest weakness, ending up too much like 616. In a way, Ultimatum was a good thing because it forced the writers to have to give different directions.

>>149534720
>the expensive government program does nothing practical and is only saved by a falseflag
>foreign interventionism with people of mass destruction escalates into an unironic invasion of the USA which is framed by the story as being morally right
Think about what real-life events happened around the time Ultimates was published and how they may be referenced.

Very rough. The only real satisfying payoff is when they all band together to fuck up the reds. All the chitauri stuff is ass. And the later stuff is even worse. The subversion of a subversion for the Thor story is boring. And I just don't understand this version of the Hulk.

>>149536664
Instead of the Hulk being big angry man, Millar's read is that hulk is pure id, so he's basically a horny buff teenager. Millar is the Michael Bay of comic writers.

>>149536834
What part of Banner's id makes him want to eat people?
Furthermore, why does Betty find the idea that Hulk eats people to be eroric?

>>149531215
People point to the Unfunnies or Nemesis but I think Wanted is Millar at his most vile. The entire book feels slimy as fuck.

>>149537006
Yeah, I agree. That's obviously the work that is the Rosetta stone for the rest of his shit. The entire idea is "if a normal ass dude got super powers obviously he'd essentially be a spree killer." That's why I compare him to Michael Bay, it's obvious he despises his audience.

>>149536615
>Think about what real-life events happened around the time Ultimates was published and how they may be referenced.

Okay. that doesn't make the comic smart It makes it referential, but it's still the same crap.

>>149537006
The hitch and miller F4 run had some moments of pointless shock too.

>>149529679 (OP)
HULK STRAIGHT
HULK NOT GAY LIKE FREDDIE PRINZE JR