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Thread 149922594

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Anonymous No.149922594 [Report] >>149922621 >>149925322 >>149925712 >>149925752 >>149928481 >>149928503 >>149928821 >>149929800 >>149929829 >>149931067 >>149932338 >>149933430 >>149933864
Be honest, is Grant/Breyfogle Batman worth reading?
Anonymous No.149922621 [Report] >>149934291
>>149922594 (OP)
>Burton didn't think to use Croc for Returns
wtf
Anonymous No.149923760 [Report] >>149925801 >>149926684 >>149928714 >>149928860 >>149928986 >>149929089 >>149929182 >>149929616 >>149929708 >>149934291
croc needs a heart of ice type story on him. he's one of the few rogues that can be expanded on as an allegory for marginalized inner-city youth; the arkham games even state that his mutations get worse due to trauma

his best story is when he was a bodyguard to that couple but it doesn't expand too much on how his psychological state is in a feedback loop with his constant discrimination, making him more beastly as time goes on. that's itching to be expanded on
Anonymous No.149924257 [Report] >>149928441
Yes. Most of post-Crisis Batman whole O'Neil was still editor (so until '99) is at least decent. Absolutely better than anything done with the character since.
Anonymous No.149925322 [Report]
>>149922594 (OP)
not really
Anonymous No.149925712 [Report]
>>149922594 (OP)
One of the better teamups in the character's mythology
Shadow of the Bat is very good
Was going to post this in the Batman should have aliens thread but read this for sure
Anonymous No.149925752 [Report] >>149927269 >>149928218
>>149922594 (OP)
this era was the last time comic books looked cool and not just stupid and unartistic
Anonymous No.149925801 [Report] >>149926775
>>149923760
>his best story is when he was a bodyguard to that couple
Which story is that? Not the Joker's Asylum one shot?
Anonymous No.149926654 [Report]
Absolutely
Anonymous No.149926684 [Report]
>>149923760
>croc needs a heart of ice type story on him
>croc needs a great status quo changing story about him
You could say this about 99% of villains
Anonymous No.149926775 [Report]
>>149925801
yes that one
Anonymous No.149927269 [Report] >>149927303
>>149925752
What about the 00s?
Anonymous No.149927303 [Report]
>>149927269
Too digital
Anonymous No.149928218 [Report] >>149933294
>>149925752
90s art is SEVERELY mixed.
Anonymous No.149928441 [Report] >>149928750 >>149928826 >>149933133
>>149924257
It's crazy that Denny shepherded those books up through No Man's Land, left, and they went to shit almost immediately
>inb4 what about Hush
Did I stutter
Anonymous No.149928481 [Report]
>>149922594 (OP)
Legit my favorite Batman era.
Anonymous No.149928503 [Report]
>>149922594 (OP)
Yes. It’s good.
Anonymous No.149928714 [Report] >>149929089 >>149934291
>>149923760
>croc needs a heart of ice type story on him

What Croc needs is him being written more than just a token tank character to beat up in medias res stories. He debuted as a mastermind, ffs.

I don’t mind steering him away from being just another mob bows who takes off his shirt and wrestles Batman occasionally but he does need more to him than just the monster guy Batman fights in sewers.

Him being like a protector of hobos and the disfranchised living in sewers was a nice idea but that doesn’t exactly give him much range to be used in stories because then he’s a guy who doesn’t have much reason to fight Batman actively. If he had his own book then yeah, becoming an anti-hero could work but that isn’t happening. It should stick around but definitely needs to be developed more, to show how underground Gotham functions as a community. You could even have Croc be friends/enemies with Rat Catcher since they share the same stomping grounds. Either fighting over territory or being unusual semi-friends who keep the underground community running smoothly, etc.

Another good character bit is how Croc is basically Roy Harper’s unofficial AA sponsor. You could maybe expand that to other villains with addiction issues, like Magpie. Or Firefly. Might be fun when it’s more about them trying to maintain some control of their addiction issues without being able to be “cured” because their gimmick requires them to steal and burn shit down. And Croc is just the guy they come to unburden themselves and he gives them a shoulder to cry but also tough love when they’re reeling out of control.

Maybe have Croc hold court in a dive bar where he works as a sort of low level fixer. Someone who gives you few bucks if you’re short, you need help with an abusive ex, he collect debts, etc. but then you owe him a favour and Croc always collects on those. It certainly would give Croc a unique new gimmick that you can work into different types of stories.
Anonymous No.149928750 [Report]
>>149928441
Weird that Superman recovers at the same time. The Loeb/Kelly/Casey/Schultz era was really good, and then after that we got Superman/Batman + Kelly on JLA, and then All Star Superman + Johns on Action Comics.

The 2000s was a great decade for Superman, but basically shit for Batman. The 90s was the other way around.
Anonymous No.149928821 [Report] >>149928913
>>149922594 (OP)
Absolutely. That and Moench/Jones and Dixon/Nolan Batman are runs that are meat and potatoes. Which might underwhelm readers who want everything to be big showcases like Hush, but feels the most true to the soul of the character.
Anonymous No.149928826 [Report]
>>149928441
There’s nothing crazy about one individual with strong editorial oversight and vision running things for over a decade and having a pretty consistent output and direction. But it’s also just random chance and luck. Look at Karen Berger with Vertigo. Has strong titles but lots of forgettable stuff nobody remembers anymore and the line slowly floundered under her until she left and all her editorial work with Dark Horse? Nobody ever talks about that stuff.
Anonymous No.149928860 [Report] >>149928893 >>149930956
>>149923760
The Doug Moench/Kelly Jones story where Croc feels a primal call to the swamp because he feels like he can't fit into society anymore is sort of like this. It sets up the idea that Croc is mentally regressing into a beast that has since gone into overdrive.
Anonymous No.149928893 [Report] >>149930956
>>149928860
Just another case of one good story inspiring something that ends up damaging the character in the long term
Anonymous No.149928913 [Report] >>149928976
>>149928821
>Moench/Jones and Dixon/Nolan Batman
Nah, those are shit. Ruined your entire post.
Anonymous No.149928976 [Report]
>>149928913
Nah, those are fine.
Anonymous No.149928986 [Report] >>149929014
>>149923760
>croc needs a heart of ice type story on him
no he don't need an overrated oberdramatic stoey that turns him into a one note villain
Anonymous No.149929014 [Report] >>149929646
>>149928986
He already is a one-note villain
Anonymous No.149929089 [Report]
>>149923760
Croc doesn't necessarily require a dramatic story to define him as THE main source of inspiration, but I'd argue he needs a new status quo that incorporates the best aspects of what other writers have brought to the table.

To me, Croc's ideal niche is a guy who has found his place as a sewer man living in Gotham's sewage system next to legally distinct Ninja Turtles, actual mole people and CHUDs, and various social rejects making a literal underground society. Similar to what Two Face should be, Croc is a wild card.

>this week, he'll be friendly with Batman and play cards with one of the Robins, trade some valuable information and punch out whatever sewer villain is making a ruckus
>the next week he'll be fighting with other villains over territory, abducting people who cheaped out on him, or be caught smuggling weapons, valuable resources, or just bootlegging movies - he does some time in prison before escaping and he goes right back to his stomping grounds

>>149928714
I like your ideas for Croc. Batman and Gotham need more controlled opposition/legally allowed criminals to operate when things transition to Batman cementing himself as an authority figure.

>early Batman: Batman punches Croc for trying to eat people or do standard Mafia shit but through the sewers
>later Batman: Croc plays cards with Robin and chokes out bitches who try to avoid paying him
Anonymous No.149929182 [Report]
>>149923760
Croc has been good in Poison Ivy’s book as a secondary supporting character
Anonymous No.149929616 [Report] >>149929631
>>149923760
nah, there needs to be an environmentalist team and he could be on it. Croc, Poison Ivy, Swamp-Thing, Aquaman, maybe even Floronic Man, maybe Man-Bat

that would be far more interesting than whatever the fuck DC is doing currently
Anonymous No.149929631 [Report] >>149929695
>>149929616
Sounds pretty woke
Anonymous No.149929646 [Report] >>149929670
>>149929014
Killer Croc is more narratively flexible then Mr Freeze
Anonymous No.149929670 [Report]
>>149929646
But he isn’t used particularly flexibly. He’s been reduced to the token strong guy Batman fights because the writer doesn’t like, want or know/care to use someone like Amygdala or Solomon Grundy.
Anonymous No.149929695 [Report] >>149929742
>>149929631
yeah man, not shitting on your own pillow/planet is so "woke"
Anonymous No.149929708 [Report]
>>149923760
Absolute Batman's Croc is pretty cool
Anonymous No.149929742 [Report]
>>149929695
Any environmental protection measures are considered woke now. Climate change isn’t real. You’re a wacko commie tree hugger if you care about pollution and want to regulate it.
Anonymous No.149929800 [Report]
>>149922594 (OP)
Yes. Everything Batman from the 70s to the late 90s is worth reading. It's peak Batman.
Anonymous No.149929829 [Report] >>149931375
>>149922594 (OP)
That run created one of my favorite batman rogues
Anonymous No.149930956 [Report] >>149931188
>>149928860
Was going to say this
>>149928893
How so? His wanting to be left alone there isn't a bad soft status quo. Like he'd be reluctantly brought back to Gotham for various reasons but solefully pine for the solitude. Rather than just jobbing as a heavy.
Anonymous No.149931067 [Report]
>>149922594 (OP)
It's a pre-woke comic so yes.
Anonymous No.149931188 [Report] >>149931312
>>149930956
Because the regressive beast mind thing inspired people to make him more animalistic and that’s how you get Jeph Loeb giving him a snout and a tail to make him more like a crocodile instead of just a guy with weird skin condition
Anonymous No.149931312 [Report]
>>149931188
Ah I see, yeah
Anonymous No.149931375 [Report]
>>149929829
The like 1989-1993 period is the last time Batman had an abundance of new villains that fit.
Anonymous No.149932338 [Report]
>>149922594 (OP)
It's alright.
Anonymous No.149933133 [Report]
>>149928441
NML was mostly driven by Denny’s editors, who booted Alan Grant and Doug Moench but kept Chuck Dixon.
Anonymous No.149933294 [Report]
>>149928218
Yeah, but at least delivered.
Anonymous No.149933430 [Report] >>149934211
>>149922594 (OP)
1987-1997 is the peak of Batman for me.
Anonymous No.149933864 [Report]
>>149922594 (OP)
Alan Grant wrote over 200 Batman related stories and is most likely the 2nd longest Batman writer besides his creator Bill Finger, so yes.
Anonymous No.149934211 [Report]
>>149933430
86 is the peak.
Anonymous No.149934291 [Report]
>>149923760
>>149928714
Somebody a few threads ago put it really well how Croc is one of the most inconsistent "depending on the writer" characters in all of DC
>debuts as a criminal mastermind with a skin condition
>misunderstood beast who just wants to be normal or left alone
>10-foot tall crocodile monster who loves eating innocent people for fun
>instant regeneration, breathes underwater, tail, bloodhound smelling, aquaman swimming, etc. take your pick
>champion of the homeless and ostracized
Pretty much the only thing that sticks is that he's a low-class thug living in the sewers
>>149922621
I think he was under mandate that he had to use Penguin
Anonymous No.149934811 [Report]
Smallwood, today