Thread 150887885

>Character has cool design
>Wasted at every possible opportunity
I remember playing Blackheart in the Capcom games and then reading a comic with him where he was a scrawny human in a garbage pile apartment who gets beat up by X-23, then he vanished and a decade later he shows up with a much worse design and gets beat up by Miles Morales

For a more traditional supervillain look I always liked Graviton's design, but I also always mistook him for Count Nefaria at a glance. Not that it matters neither of them are used in any meaningful capacity either way nowadays

>>150888399
Only in the last 30 years. It's crazy to think that Spider-Man has been unreadable trash for an equal amount of time that it was readable.

>>150887885 (OP)
....and now he's a pretty anime boy......?

>>150887899
Mafia superman is cool. But what else is there good about him other than being the father of Madame Masque?

>>150888798
I would say 1962-2007 is more than 2007-2025. So it is not equal but it sure is getting close.

>>150889317
Didn't Blackheart hates the human form and that was what differentiated it from Mephisto?

>>150889466
Spider-Man hasn't been worth reading since the 90s.

>>150887885 (OP)
Girls and gays wouldn't like this

>>150889317
They would like this

>>150889317
Surprised it took them to give him that kind of human form.
I know the movie had him in a human form the whole time

>>150889317
Already happened in the nic cage movie

>>150890397
I remember the director promised he'd be in his true form by the end, and it was just the actor with a blue face and some small spikes

>>150887885 (OP)
Ironically the most respect he has gotten in years was in marvel unleashed. He was stomping Throg and the whole team until Lockjaw took him out of his Hell dimension

>>150890782
Plus Black Bolt is a lot stronger than X23 and Miles

>>150887885 (OP)
You forget that he’s gay now and human looking and is a cast member of Avengers Infinity comic online.

>>150891006
>You forget that he’s gay now
>so many such cases
That anon who wanted a comics industry version of the Nuremberg Trials was right.

>>150890782
Nice to Lockjaw get respect for his actual strength and just glorified transportation

>>150887885 (OP)
Many such cases

>>150887885 (OP)
It’s like Spawn and Venom had a baby.

>>150891417
Yeah people forget lockjaw has a more going than teleporting. Due in no small part to pretty much every writer leaving him out fights for the past thirty years.

>>150892264
>you refugee from an overactive thyroid
lel

Devos the Devastator. Was literally space Punisher with a predator armor but more crazy.

>Debuts in sequence than then is revealed to be a dream
>Debuts for real in an potentially interesting arc only to die in an anticlimactic montage
>In the next arc she appears in she gets absorbed to make the main antagonist more menacing and powerful and then does nothing after returning
>Might not appear again ever
Being a Queen Gert fan is suffering

>>150893469
Did the second serie ended?

Deathcry was killed off because the qriter thought she was one note or something. They didn't even give her the dignity of keeping her cool design

>>150887885 (OP)
Welcome to comics, where writers will make powerful being job to people far below their weight class. They will tell you it make for good story, but it make all of their established lore a joke.

>>150887885 (OP)
Blackheart is cool as fuck. I actually have issue in OP's pic. It's cool and I found it while searching my LCS. It was surreal because seeing the cover of wolverine, Punisher and Ghost Rider in JRJR's style made me realize it was the source of that one pic on /co/ about edgy heroes but then flipping it over to see Blackheart was what made me truly realize. It's surreal seeing the source of some pictures you see all the time. Kinda like seeing that one initiative book or that illuminati issue where every comic youtuber uses those pics. Good thing I don't watch that shit anymore.
But yeah Blackheart just needs to stick to magical stuff and maybe show up as an Avengers villain and fight Wanda, Strange, or Blade. Thor would be cool with their bombastic language and contrast in light and dark. Also surprised the FF, Silver Surfer, or Dr. Doom haven't been used with him to get to Mephisto. At least I don't think so.

If he stayed as originally described he would have been fine
>The "super Inhuman"
>has most of the royal family powers
>designed to counter Black Bolt, and only exist because of the incursions fucking up the original midnight king prophecy
Essentially everything above is a lie a lie that came from narration by the way not an in story character. All for the sake of the twist that are hundreds of Vox and they are made by putting cyborg shit on regular Inhumans. Also they work on conservation of ninjutsu rules so an army of them was really weak. Also we never found out who the origiinal was.

>>150893742
Well remember that he’s currently a gay twink now.

>>150893633
Western writers can't into power scaling for shit.

>>150887885 (OP)
I love Blackheart and enjoyed his first few story arcs but even my 8 year old self knew he was fucked to never be used right because he started and stayed as a Daredevil enemy for two years which is such an awful fit it doomed him any chance ever being used right. DD is a street level hero and Blackheart is more of a near cosmic threat.

>>150889317
Who's sleeping with Nate Richards

>>150895216
So Kang is gay now?

>>150887885 (OP)
>>150895004
Nocenti is so shit

>>150895216
proof

>>150895004
But isn't that kind of cool though? Like Spider-Man against Juggernaut?

>>150893633
It sucks that your favorite character can be forever ruined because a Writer or someone in Editorial doesn't personally like them
>Character's entire backstory gets written so they're actually a villain instead
>Character was too strong to win so now they have to lose every fight to drum up hype for the new guy and they always have to look bad if fighting a more popular superhero
>Editorial didn't know what to do with this character so now they're dead, easy out

>>150897509
at least there will always be old stories to go back to

>>150894094
>>150895216

>>150895216
>>150896822
Still waiting.

>>150895216
I thought he was in a love triangle with the other 2 gay guys.

>>150899143
No, that's Mysterio's nephew.

>>150893502
How the fuck is that cool

>>150896537
I wouldn't go that far, she writes well enough her issue was she struggles to stay in the lines with her material, you could tell she didn't want to be writing a Daredevil book.

>>150897091
Spider-Man against Juggernaut is nothing like what was going on here. Juggernaut wasn't introduced as a Spider-man foe that stayed around in a year long arc and even if that happen, in terms of motives he's the Rhino with better plot armor.
We are introduced to a son of Satan that can turn into anyone, read the minds of others, teleport nearly anywhere in this damn town and cause lovecraft like horrors on anyone that has a soul, and somehow DD is suppose to face this and win? The whole arc just spun out of control and required both Blackheart to challenge his father and Silver fucking Surfer to interfere and save everyone. That's what made this mash up so retarded it would be on par of Spider-man fighting Mephisto and we all know how well that encounter went.

>>150887899
His episode of EMH was the coolest shit ever to little me.

>>150899312
>somehow Daredevil is supposed to win this
Keep in mind I haven't read Nocenti's run yet but when I saw that Blackheart debuted in her run, I thought it was a cool way for her to differentiate her run from Miller's further considering that DD had just raised the bar with storytelling. Using a supernatural character to further explore good and evil/spirituality (which Miller did with Born Again and making Matt catholic) makes sense to me. Power level fagging in this case is clearly even more out of wack. Matt gets killed instantly. But is that the point of the story? From the glimpses I have seen, it seems like Blackheart is questioning morality and DD has to try to display goodness as a desirable thing to him. Am I correct? I haven't read it fully. Then the point of the story is that exploration of a spiritual conflict and not the result of the fight in a physical sense. I meant the comparison to Juggernaut to be solely about being outclassed when I should have used a better comparison that was more about the metaphors.
If Nocenti makes it too hamfisted and overly dramatic then yeah you can criticize it. I dunno, I need to read it.

>>150899452
As a kid I always wondered why the various villain breakouts and reappearances never included him because he's the strongest villain they ever faced not named Odin Loki or fucking Galactus

>>150889430
Not every supervillain needs to be deep or even interesting. Mob boss Superman is an entertaining idea that can occupy a small arc about holding the UN hostage or something, but Nefaria is never used

>>150902596
Oh yeah I'm fine with him being a villain of the week but I dunno he does spring up from time to time so I was wondering if there was anything deeper. Also does he just live on an island or something? Why isn't he in NY kicking Kingpin's ass? I mean it's because Fisk is a cooler more historically significant character to the 616 but how do they reconcile how this mob boss superman isn't flying around the world tracking down his daughter and also giving the heroes more of a run for their money? Is this ionic energy thing he has what limits him? Like a much worse version of Supes and his Sunny-D?

>>150888798
I'd say this is the fate of most long running media.

>>150903033
Nah Nefaria is Italian and any time he gets too uppity in Europe Dr. Doom beats his ass

>>150899246
What worked about Deathcry during the Harras run was that everything, literally everything from her attitude to her design to her name, was meant to play into the '90s Badass Woman Warrior cliche that was popular but the twist was that everything about her was an act she put on so people wouldn't see that she was just a normal teenage girl who was riddled with anxiety over having been exiled from the Shi'ar Empire but having no clue or memory as to why (the implication was that she was Deathbird's daughter and it had to do with Deathbird attempting to a coup or something).

>>150899246
I don't understand your question

>>150895004
I mean, if his point is to be a moral underminer, someone who doesn't care about anything but corrupting that one, Good soul, then it works
If you turn him into just some bad guy you beat up to get him to stop then yeah he fails

>>150895216
This kids is what we call fucking lying

>>150887885 (OP)
Dark Beast was mostly wasted. he either had a natural defense against psionics or used apocalypse's celestial tech to hide from nate grey. was able to navigate through norman osborn's mind in the first iteration of dark x-men. found emma frost in generation x issue minus 1 and is probably the reason she became a bourgeois cunt, deceived everyone in to thinking he was regular beast, was interesting enough to Onslaught that he wasn't murdered outright, has built tech for himself to become more dangerous and was able to escape the Age of Apocalypse timeline TWICE. imagine if quicksilver hadn't stopped him from teleporting to the m'kraan crystal.

you'd think that he'd be used and written as an incredibly dangerous villain that uses deception to fool the avengers and actually harms even the toughest x-men. if he can hide from nate grey he can hide from most if not all psychics and it would be super easy to build rose quartz armor to protect himself before dismembering cyclops for getting in the way

but instead marvel has killed him at least twice and was last seen as a head in a jar in sinister's lab for no reason

>>150896537
>Nocenti is THE shit

Fixed

>>150897509
>favorite character gets killed off because penciler thought that depicting them destroying a specifically populated planet with a reaction shot of aliens turning away from destructive light was a detail he didn't need to double check with the writer on and something he could just assume and wing it.

In a stupid Venom event.

>>150900276
>I meant the comparison to Juggernaut to be solely about being outclassed
The issue is the scale of it. Juggernaut v Spiderman is bringing a gun to a knife fight. Blackheart v Daredevil is trying to fist fight a tornado. Anon might not have been speaking strictly about power levels so much that this type of story telling for a first appearance just muddles what the character can do after that. As mentioned it was clear Nocenti wanted to write stories that weren't designed for the hero in mind, he was just pigeon holed in. The exploration of the topics was fine but Matt is just there while everyone else is having a more serious exploration of the topic. Also reading the whole of her run will help you see what others have with her writing. Example the Ultron arc was another one that was a decent story idea but a really fucking bad Daredevil story. In that one you could just change everyone out but Ultron and Nine and it functions all the same. Ultron goes crazy for Nocenti's doughnut steel, Ultron has an existential crisis, Daredevil beats up Ultron with a fucking stick, the end.

Again, be a fun story on it's own with nothing but OCs but as it's presented, it's just oof.

>>150906996
I think the issue with him was related to what they were doing with Beast at the time. Dark Beast was not some evil reflection clone or Demon shaped in Hank's image, it was Henry Philip McCoy but with no ethical beliefs because... no Xavier? That just fucks with any future stories because either he can be redeemed or if he can't just what the fuck does that say about Hank in the 616 timeline? That he would be evil if given the opportunity? Like most 90 plot points it was an interesting idea but whole shit, they should have killed him right then and kept him dead after the real Hank was found. Reusing him just complicated things.

>>150907275
There’s nothing wrong with using Daredevil in that story where he’s roaming the country and encountering weird shit during his identity crisis.

>Leo join with Foot Clan
>Nah, it's just some lame brainwashing

>>150907349
The error is how out of place the stories are and how little Matt is actually involved in them. That two part Ultron story is just before the major Blackheart arc and all of it just not a good fit for what a person is expecting to read from a Daredevil plot.
It's not by far the worse Daredevil arc, I save that for Fall from Grace or Guardian Devil, but it's not a very good story arc for Matt either.

>>150907403
>Guardian Devil
It's funny because that was Kevin Smith's "best" comic story. How the fuck did the guy keep getting writing gigs?

>>150907403
Not every Daredevil has to be specifically about Matt. It’s dumb criticism

>>150907444
It was about 13 issues that could be summarized as things happen around Matt but he isn't really involved. It would be like reading a year of issues of Wolverine that were about his new OC crew dealing with cosmic horrors. If you came to read about Wolverine it's really awful and won't help you understand anything about the character.

They pulled him out for one shitty event years ago and then shoved him back under the table

>>150907507
Nah it was great and the entire storyline was about Matt being broken down and slowly finding himself again after his entire life fell apart and he nearly died.

>>150887885 (OP)
>cool design
>wasted character
Welcome to Judge Death.

>>150890390
Leave gays out of this, we want hot muscle monsters.

>>150907090
who was this

He usually looks cool but damn does he not get a chance to be cool. The power disparity between him and Wiccan means he always the damsel in distress. I mean sure Wiccan is a reality warper while Hulking is basically a buff skrull, not even a super skrull. The space excalibur could have helped with but Ewing made it only good for countering magic which isn't common in a feature in the cosmic setting. After Empyre he basically does nothing.

>>150908749
Phoenix? Dunno if the destroyed planet wasn't supposed to be populated in the script

>>150887885 (OP)
The less human a character is, the more wasted it will usually be.

>>150897509
that's all of comics for the last 30 years sadly. A great example: Venom's books were outselling Spider-man's in the late 90s so their answer to that was to all but kill him off. He kept being brought back out of sales desperation but would quickly get fucked up again in hopes they could keep him down for the count. Anti-Venom was a solution that everyone was fine with, until the Sony movie started getting made so they fucked with him once again and when the film synergy died off they went back to getting rid Eddie Venom because for whatever reason most of upper Marvel staff hate giving Todd royalties.

>>150903033
>Is this ionic energy thing he has what limits him? Like a much worse version of Supes and his Sunny-D?
Historically yes. he has a time limit before he runs out of power and starts dying. Then he became some ionic vampire that has to feed on other ionic characters (which was more an excuse to get rid of them really) but they never did much of a workaround for that.

>>150889430
>>150902596
Nefaria needs to be another one of those looming threats that n one wants to really fuck with and ignores if they can. he's one of the big guys on Marvel Earth that various heroes and governments are not too willing to get into a tangle with and they mostly let him do his thing as long as he leaves them alone too.
He actually could be the reason why there is still a mafia in existence when there are hundreds of superpowered heroes roaming around. Any one of a hundred different people in New York alone could clean out all the crime families in a week or two at best, but if there is an evil Italian Superman at the top, guys like Spider-Man, Cloak/Dagger, Punisher, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and the rest of the medium weights are not touching that shit. All the big crime families give a cut to Nefaria and everyone knows if some hero kicks in Kingpin's whole operation and ruins it, Nefaria is going to kill them and set it right back up again in a week.

>>150906996
He runs into the problem of Beast is just nobody's favorite character in the first place. So an evil version is not that amazing or scary either. He is not much of a threat to most people in Marvel anyway. He is on the extreme low end of the mutant spectrum and not even a tough feral guy like Sabertooth (who is also fairly street level) At least with most supersmart guys they are also a hard fight when a hero stops their plans like Sinister or Evolutionary.

>>150909573
Didn't they do the exact same shit with War Machine and Thunderstrike? Their books were doing better than the main books so Marvel killed them off?

The Bankruptcy happened almost the same time so it's hard to differentiate what books were cancelled and characters forgotten because of bankruptcy or editorial nonsense.

>>150910989
You are correct, and some believe that bankruptcy is when everything changed into a small club affair where only a few people decided everything, sales be damned and we have been trap in this hellscape ever since where sales and fans are never the deciding factor of what gets published or made by Marvel.

>>150887885 (OP)
blackheart is the nortubel of marvel

>>150889430
You're so cringe, dawg

>>150887885 (OP)
Reminder that the Capcom devs at the time, to decide what Marvel characters get in, just flipped through popular comics back then and added whoever they thought looked cool

>>150911976
He was relevant at the time, after Dark Design in 1994 he was the ruler of the Hell and was active in several books. Be a good four years later in 1997 that the Ghost Rider story arc, Last Temptation, would happen and thus fuck up Blackheart for all eternity. Poor guy had a wifeu, 4 henchmen and was doing fine, only to get stabbed in the back and the book to get canceled and the story to not get finished for another 7 years.
Really he was fine until that editorial fuckup and after that no one knew what to do with him.

>>150913194
*wallow* So that random demon in the ghost movie was from the comics cool

>>150893484
We are now in the third series and if we are lucky Volume 10 will be something that is not episodic slop since IHF is 10 and its close to having 50 issues.

>>150887885 (OP)
You see me in a black cloak. Big, tall, muscular... evil ass motherfucker, running at you.
https://youtu.be/H9pTyVGBc2g

>>150906996
Dark Beast (or Hank being written as a psycho) makes sense when you're aware of how the Doc Savage pulps were a big influence on Lee and Kirby. One of Doc's closest allies was Monk Mayfair, an industrial chemist and brawler who resembles an ape and is popular with the ladies. Monk's whole shtick is that he is remarkably kind and compassionate towards the innocent, the helpless, and his friends and allies...but he also has a great deal of violence in him. He's usually the one to shoot down enemies in the back, blow them up with explosives and leave no survivors, or (in an infamous example) straight up remove the parachute from a backpack without a second though (that the villain of the story would later use, and then fall to his death).

Both the Thing and Beast were inspired by Monk, essentially split down the middle. The Thing got Monk's compassion, grumpiness, and bickering with Johnny, while Beast got Monk's smarts, his amorality, and his success with women.

Not really mishandled just unused

>Jobs to Krypto
>Stops being used because the original plan changed

>>150911768
Ikr? 86 the 6-7, my dude.

>>150890317
he was shit from 94-2000 but gained an island of stability from 2001-2005 that went to shit again with New Avengers and the editorial mandate to Ultify the character

Toad isn't that interesting as a villain, but its weird writers still go out of their way to have Magneto abuse him even after becoming a "hero"

>>150907256
I can't agree dude. His Conquest comic bored me to tears. I guess I just don't like Kree.

>>150907256
I thought this was Knull then I thought this was Dracula

>>150915627
One of the best recent designs I've seen

>>150910934
His problem is that Hickman is a hack and turned Beast into an evil bitch and a knockoff Dark Beast, then Percy made it worse. With Hank evil there was no reason for Dark Beast to exist. Another fine load of Krakoan shit.

>>150888399
Spider-Man has some of the best comics and the worst comics of all time.

>>150907090
Nobody's favorite character had ever been Jean Grey.

>>150921808
Wow, a character who’s existed for over 60 years and has had multiple different titles simultaneously has had wide range of quality?!!