Thread 151128071

When did it become normalized for female characters to be massive bitches?

>>151128071 (OP)
>when they started mandating more women into writer's rooms and scripts for luxury entertainment genre IP made for boys and men
>when more women started watching media aimed at men and execs/creatives decided to make the men more emotionally vulnerable...but because the entire culture of the entertainment industry is misogynistic as shit, they ended up stripping emotional vulnerability from women and calling it nu-feminism

>>151128071 (OP)
Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

>>151128071 (OP)
1985.

>>151128071 (OP)
whats wrong with elita-1?
she isnt immediately friendly to orion and D because from her perspective they got them stranded on the surface of the planet on a wild goose chase
and before that, she saw them as slackers and troublemakers who got her fired from her position

her antagonism is totally justified and she softens over the course of the movie anyways as she befriends them and finds common cause
she is even the one to give orion a pep talk about finally believing in him

>>151128290
>whats wrong with elita-1?
OP has small pp, that's it
also some stupid people unironically confuse her with Arcee and think she's been given a personality change

>>151128266
Elita One didn't hate Optimus Prime in G1, though. That's the weird thing about Transformers One. If you told me that Elita and Optimus in TFOne would end up together at some point in the future, I'd think you were crazy. She's just... really mean to everyone. For good reason, admittedly, her life was ruined by two bumblefucks, but writers control everything so it's just a weird way to do her character and she never shows any other emotion towards anyone.

>>151128071 (OP)
I would say the 2010s maybe a little before that.
A lot of women went to college and found out about their own white privilege so to hide it and they hyper focused on masculinity and made themselves victims when things didn't go their way. Also blogging about how men having a fantasy made for them is a bad thing.
Even when media caters to them too but not enough to make their degree in gender studies matter in the real world.

Delusions of power and control in social media and regular media.

So they thought making a. Female hero is always an action hero in every media ment all strong women had to be a bitch.

>>151128071 (OP)
I thought I was listening to pic related's voice actress when I heard Elita speak on screen, not Scarlet.

>>151128373
They were, they just weren't praised for it. And told they were right unless you were watching an action movie.

>>151128320
Elita One has literally hated Optimus in everything EXCEPT the original 1984 cartoon.

>>151128071 (OP)
Like 15 years ago.

>>151128396
>just weren't praised for it
most hardass female heroes arent right either and they tend to grow out of the same as male ones
elita-one was portrayed as being outright wrong for having such an attitude and grows out of it over the course of the movie

>>151128423
Bullshit. Most of the media in the past 15 years had to be a bitch because she's "right" or better than their male counterparts and had to be told countless of times and never coming to terms that, hey maybe they are just a bitch.
They never in their interactions of bitchdom, had to admit they were wrong or told they were being a complete bitch.

Marvel movies after Captain Marvel was proof of that, "it's everyone else is wrong but me" the girl boss.
That. Elita one however, I felt her bitchness in one was well deserved. She had to deal with losing her promotions thanks to those two. So she gets a pass.

But most hard ass female heroes were just "I'm right you are wrong cuz I said so now praise me for it!"

>>151128480
>Bullshit.
in that case, I call bullshit on the claim that male bitches are called out on their own behavior more often than females

>Marvel movies after Captain Marvel was proof of that,
captain marvel isnt even an example of that
her character arc in her own movie is growing past her own "just follow orders mindset" and becoming more selfless and proactive
at no point is she said that being aloof is a good thing, and she thaws out by the end of the movie

whatever narrative you are trying to spin about girl bosses just doesnt exist because most of them just follow the same trajectory as guy bosses, which is that being difficult is a bad thing that they have to grow out of
and in many cases, guys are usually way less pressured by the story to change than the girl

>>151128071 (OP)
It's hot

>>151128527
>in that case, I call bullshit on the claim that male bitches are called out on their own behavior more often than females
They are, they called whimps and useless or when they act like assholes they lose their friends and support and backing. They learn a lesson where as these girl bosses learn nothing.
>captain marvel isnt even an example of that
her character arc in her own movie is growing past her own "just follow orders mindset" and becoming more selfless and proactive
at no point is she said that being aloof is a good thing, and she thaws out by the end of the movie

I call bullshit to that as well because not once did she get shit from her victims of "just follow orders." None of skrulls said they didn't trust her, none of them hated her for following orders after she switched sides.
If it were an action hero movie, then she could pull that shit. But it was a super hero movie, one where the hero learns the mistakes he or she is making and faces consequences for their actions before.
Captain marvel never faced it, it was all "YOU GO ANGRY GIRL" from the fucking start. And how she is the victim in all of this, but not the aliens she killed or skrulls she attacked. Nope they just forget all about it.

This is the narrative that was built. The lack of paying attention to what is being written is on you.

The only time you see girl boss character equivalents to men is in crappy action movies.

>>151128364
They do sound strangely similar
Fug I love Strongarm

>>151128320
>and she never shows any other emotion towards anyone.
you know this is just blatantly false, right
she's nice to orion later on and bumblebee has to hold her back after orion gets dropped into the pit

>>151128621
>They learn a lesson where as these girl bosses learn nothing.
again, girls are more often called out on their behaviour while guys are often just allowed to be difficult jerks because thats just the way they are

>call bullshit to that as well
thats literally her arc, she grows less cold and aloof over the course of the movie and she becomes more proactive

> it was all "YOU GO ANGRY GIRL" from the fucking start.
she gets progressively less so as the movie goes on
and her problem with future movies is that she becomes too proactive and starts acting without thinking, like destroying the supreme intelligence leading to war

so she not only has to defrost over the course of her own movie, she has to face the consequences of her actions in the next several movies, and eventually overcome the guilt caused from being too gung-ho

captain marvel is easily one of the weakest marvel movies but she isnt even an example of the strawman girl boss you created in your head
she is just a no-nonsense soldier type character who rebels against the kree once she learns that the skrulls arent what she thought they were
thats basically the same arc we see many kinds of heroes go, male or female, the main issue being that she follows it too closely without any subversion and so comes across as too cookie cutter
she becomes more interesting when she does take on more of the hot-headed, headstrong personality that she is more famous for in the comics, what some people might call a girl boss but is actually just a recurring character archetype

>The only time you see girl boss character equivalents to men is in crappy action movies.
then we can just say that the only time you see the girl boss archetype itself is in crappy action movies

>>151128071 (OP)
when the bible was written, with eve eating the apple?

>>151128810
>again, girls are more often called out on their behaviour while guys are often just allowed to be difficult jerks because thats just the way they are


Bullshit. You never see it. Show me one and I could probably show how it's not even close.

>hats literally her arc, she grows less cold and aloof over the course of the movie and she becomes more proactive

And? All she does is act out like a bitch when someone says something about her costume, so steal his bike, That's not an arc that's just lazy writing where the writers are too afraid to show when she was still wrong or the fact that it's all about her.

>she gets progressively less so as the movie goes on
and her problem with future movies is that she becomes too proactive and starts acting without thinking, like destroying the supreme intelligence leading to war

so she not only has to defrost over the course of her own movie, she has to face the consequences of her actions in the next several movies, and eventually overcome the guilt caused from being too gung-ho

So you needed another fucking movie to explain that? To do any thing about that? Every movie before hers had this learning arc in every movie they were in. CM just gets their spoiled little girl moment and then tantrum later.

She literally is the strawman. Her child hood flashback, the fact she and she hulk were cut out of the Deadpool wolverine movie.

>she is just a no-nonsense soldier type character who rebels against the kree once she learns that the skrulls arent what she thought they were

She never once got told she was wrong in doing that, she was never told that she is being in the wrong. Literally you are making excuses for the strawman here.
She was never confronted for these actions.

>thats basically the same arc we see many kinds of heroes go, male or female.
Wrong, because the male ones are confronted or hunted for it all. They had to learn they either do the right thing and admit they are at fault or become a villain

>>151128810
>hen we can just say that the only time you see the girl boss archetype itself is in crappy action movies
No the time I have seen it is every movie but a crappy action hero movie.
The only time men do it, is in crappy action hero movies. Women just think that super hero movies are action hero movies. Because they are so self absorbed in their version of what the male power fantasy is they ignore everything that proves them wrong.

So, I guess just having a robot waifu thread is off the table then

>>151128810
>girls are more often called out on their behaviour while guys are often just allowed to be difficult jerks because thats just the way they are
That is literal bullshit.
Girls act like cunts and rarely deal with any consequences.
Men are literally punished later. The fact you ignore shows a complete bias.

>>151129001
Post like crazy dude. I'm not going to continue with this anon.
Just post pics.

>>151129001
Reminder beast wars era transformers are the perfect height for humans to date!

Every human men dream

>>151128638
Best girl

>>151128071 (OP)
>When did it become normalized for female characters to be massive bitches?
Around the same time people started insisting fiction should be more realistic.

>>151129332
Woah, that IS my kind of dream

tf one is the hottest shes looked since animated

>>151129266
most aren't, Navi-Ko is just small.

>>151128071 (OP)
But... she wasn't...

>>151129655
Well... she's my favorite!

>>151128071 (OP)
My friends and I when we all watched it didn't know who this was, so we called her Arcee the whole time.

>>151129929
Her name is said multiple times, and you see Arcee multiple times in the movie. Are you and your friends morons?

>>151129001
Get a better waifu

>>151128290
>her antagonism is totally justified

>>151129929
>>151129986
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEP7yFPAxMk

>>151128071 (OP)
90s

>>151128071 (OP)
At some point in the neolithic period.

>>151128364
>>151128638
I thought it was just me.

>>151128320
Elita gave bitchy vibes even before she was fired. I thought the writers meant to portray her as a leader.

>>151128071 (OP)
Art imitates life,sadly we dont see huffer beat the shit out of her for fucking up

>>151128071 (OP)
It's weird HOW bitchy they made her. She quite literally got mad at Optimus Prime got her demoted... As a cost of saving their friends life (wasn't it even a more popular character like Jazz or Prowl too?).
At that point I didn't expect her to become a main part of the cast and just thought she was supposed to be a strawman for corporate drones who care more about work than lives.

I haven't watched G1 since childhood but I thought Elita 1 was rebuilt into Arcee when Orion Pax was rebuilt into Optimus Prime.

>>151128407
She's barely a big character in anything... Including G1. So that's not that weird.
I don't necessarily disagree with trying to use her if they want a female character for the landing team though, cause in my mind Arcee firmly belongs to the Rodimus/Springer/Ultra Magnus crew.
I just don't get why she has to be the designated stick in the mud.

>>151131380
You're thinking of Ariel, being rebuilt into Elita-1.

>>151129001
Retard mods keep deleting the Drone waifus threads. Smh

>>151131423
My bad then.

>>151128127
spbp

>>151129986
I guess we just didn't give a fuck about the Arcee girlboss clone.

>>151131579
Elita-1 premiered nearly a year before Arcee, in season 2.

>>151128071 (OP)
She's alright. Don't read the current comic run or she'll give you a stroke.

>>151128071 (OP)
it's funny for all the issues with EarthSpark, Elita-1 is not one of them, she's one of the shows better characters.

I just thought it was unusual how she barely self reflects. She pretty much bought into their corporate brainwashing more than any other character in the main cast, but she continues to act vindicated for her behavior and decision making (like leaving me behind because it's more cost effective). When she learns her life's devotion was based on a lie, she cares more about Orion Pax telling her she's a better worker than him, than actually returning their society to what it was.
She's a no nonsense, head strong, goal oriented, independent woman... for corporate enslavement. And it doesn't feel like the movie makes a big enough of a deal out of her entire world being pulled out from under her. It was more important to keep make her badass and tough.

I wish women were allowed to look feminine again.

>>151131923
You can always talk with women irl you know

>>151128071 (OP)
The day you were born, we made them bitches just to make you seethe on /co/

>>151131934
Most irl people feel unrelatable to me. Whether men or women.

>>151131923
but she does look feminine, what are you talking about

>>151128071 (OP)
Its only fairly recently that they aren't. I feel like its fundamentally rooted in the difference in girls hitting puberty faster and being "bossy" as their gender role was preparing them for motherhood and wrangling kids. Since egalitarianism between genders has reared its head because we can totally make women take up careers too, its evened out a bit with some more feminine perspectives, but still pretty prominent due to being a safe stereotype.

>>151128071 (OP)
To some writers the only idea they have for a "strong female character" is just writing their mom.

>>151132030
just like 1985 Elita!

>>151132030
No, anon. Why is your mom the first one to come to mind though?

Decepticons need females too

>>151128290
>she is even the one to give orion a pep talk about finally believing in him
Literally the worst pep talk ever. Which is admittedly kind of funny, but it makes it impossible to like her

>>151132143
Because she's hot.

>>151130009
Rude
Post yours then, wise guy

>>151129614
How does sex between two robots work?

My only problem with fembots is that they have no reason to exist in Transformers, and pretty much the rest of fiction.

>>151133274
No reason for male bots to exist either
Just say you’re gay

>>151133274
I always assumed is just we human puttimg genders on alien robots because their shapes are vaguely male and vaguely female.

>>151131366
nobody likes Huffer.

>>151133529
I like the way Dr. Smoov characterized him in his parody dubs

I can deal with musclebitchformers. You just have to tame them with sex.

>>151133561
yeah thats my default image of Huffer cause otherwise he's a whiny bitch.

so transformers animated has elita-1 and blackarachnia be the same character

got me thinking, why not extend this to other universes in a different way?
blackarachnia was made from a blank maximal protoform, could be a cool idea to have that protoform originally be elita-1
there was some comic that explained that the protoforms were originally existing characters (e.g G1 inferno is beast wars inferno) but apparently everybody hated it

>>151128071 (OP)
It happened roughly around the time OP became interested in women. Funny, that.

>>151133768
i genuinely hate the fact they're the same character in Animated. I'd rather they just weren't the same character or at the least you could've split Elita and Blackarachnia from each other, they would both be better off for it instead of this continously fustrating arc the character has in the show.

You guys are forgetting an important aspect. The psychosexual aspect.
The idea of a really fucking crazy bitchy chick who will, if nothing else, provide adrenaline.
Look at the 90s and 2000s and there were tons of "ugh! Men!" bitchy girls because that's what a lot of Gen X guys were fucking in college and remember her screaming "HARDER YOU SON OF A BITCH HARDER!" as she clawed their backs.
The girl who gave you a chance to prove yourself, exposed you to new and crazy things, and would either make your life paradise or absolutely fucking ruin it.
Even the openly lesbian or bi female writers of that girlboss trope are fetishizing it when the audience isn't looking. See, a regular judgmental bitch is kinda boring but a really fucking crazy one who punches a dude out on screen? She's the only 'not like other girls' girl who manages to stay in that position in different flavors. When the 2010s rolled around, an emphasis was put on how smart and hecking relatable she was because studios saw women as potential dollar signs in the wake of certain franchises. But in turn, this always toned down the tomboyish crazy just enough that what you were left with was not only something less sexy, but also generally blander overall. The personality was lost, the "crazy" was replaced with "relatable!" even as few women related. There was just kinda nothing to it anymore.
>>151133356
I mean we do this with ships and hurricanes and a bunch of sea and machinery/hardware related stuff

>>151131847
>And it doesn't feel like the movie makes a big enough of a deal out of her entire world being pulled out from under her.
I don't think it really was. She didn't seem like a true believer in the cause, but wanted to rise as recognition for her ability. It's a selfish motive, but that it's not all that sympathetic is why we're not expected to care when it's shot in the foot over and over. It's a joke when she's pissed, it's a joke when her hardnosed shtick is occluding social interaction with Bumblebee or corrupting her pep talk into a self-aggrandizing mess that only Orion could make work.

>>151133768
because that was a fucking stupid plotpoint, and the fandom got tired of "ackshualy this BW character is REALLY this G1 character!" by 2016

>>151132302
With funny little screw holes!

>>151133274
I thought they were supposed to be a reflection of Solus Prime (at least in aligned or any with the 13) like how Micronus is an ancestor to all minicons or Amalgamous' traits are found in guys like Makeshift.

>>151135239
WOAH

>>151128071 (OP)
If they wanted the audience to like Elita, why did they make her a massive shrew? If they wanted the audience to dislike Elita, why did they never show her getting a comeuppance? What a confusing mess of a character in an otherwise good movie.

BTW Airachnid mogs her.

>>151136045
>Airachnid mogs her
I'll never buy into the TFO Airachnid astroturf, that bitch only looks good in fanart where her facial features are drawn to be rounder than in the movie.

[Unsolicited Gosling posts about Rozzum 7134]

>>151132030
Your mom punched you in the face?

>>151134739
She effectively wrote Orion Pax off because him saving a friend's life caused her to get demoted from watching people toil in a mine to watching a cargo train. It feels like she puts the corporate drone shtick above the value of life.
Which would be fine if you got the impression that she came around and saw the error of her ways. But that never happens. She just cooperates because it makes her look better, like you said.

>>151133274
There's no reason for them to be humanoid before they meet humans, or have male secondary characteristics either.

>>151133274
>>151136315
Pure fan fiction on my part, but I think it would be cool if Primus saw early humans evolve on earth, and fashioned his race of cybertronians in their image. It makes the war coming to earth feel more significant, and the humanoid design of transformers a lot more logical. It also makes Shockwave a direct affront to God.

>>151136486
Humans have only existed for 200,000 years. Optimus and Megatron are tens of millions of years old

>>151131983
>She doesn't look like a big boobed bimbo so she isn't feminine at all
What porn does to a mf

>>151136982
Can't blame anyone for having that mindset when the opposition is composed of faggots and dykes that want shit like Strika to become the standard bodytype for female cybertronians, for the record though, OP is still a massive retard.

That Transformers movie was pretty blatantly trying to copy the bad Mario movie, and that similarly had a bossy boring Peach, so it makes sense they'd try to copy and apply that to Elita

they should draw elita with big tits

>>151128290
>>151128320
so elita-1 is benson and orion and d-16 are mordecai and rigby?

>>151138046
It's not a totally out there comparison, at least at the start of the movie
Though in this case you need to double up mordo and rigby's irresponsible actions into one to get early Orion

:(

>>151128071 (OP)
>When did it become normalized for female characters to be massive bitches?
It was always normal, what got normalised is that now they are allowed to get away with it with no repercussions whatsoever.

>>151133686
Based

>>151128071 (OP)
>become

>>151135239
No way

>>151128071 (OP)
Epic of Gilgamesh.

>>151133686
grr decepticons
need correction

>>151142083
Careful, they might corrupt you instead

>>151142210
Honestly…I can live with that too

Also more Slips please

>>151128071 (OP)
You only hate Elita-1 because she is litterally every single pathetic white collar/muh career loser spinster femcel on earth.

And the reason men don't hate her as much and just write her off entirely is because every guy secretly sees that loser chick at work or at whatever job in her.

>>151142618
>is supposed to be an aspect of starscreams personality which is why she's female

what did they mean by this?

>>151128116
>they started mandating more women into writer's rooms
>calling it nu-feminism
>but the entire culture of the entertainment industry is misogynistic
someone's not connecting the dots