Cant get whey isolate or concentrate where I am rn. also dont want to use pea or brown rice powder.

so for whole foods... seems like greek yoghurt and egg whites are the best? I didnt realize that proteins are different in digestion (ppl even use hydrolyzed whey now wtf) as long as lucine isolucine and valine for ur BCAAs. apparently whey digests fastest, egg is medium, cottage cheese is slow cuz more casein than whey. and then greek yoghurt is whey.

so greek yoghurt and egg whites as my pre and post, then cottage cheese at night? does this sound right?

>>76252269 (OP)
Cottage cheese gives me gas even though greek yogurt doesnt. Also dont forget meats. meat with higher fat like hamburger takes longer to digest. chicken is average digestion time, followed by steak then burger.

>>76252269 (OP)
where tf do you live that doesn't have amazon?

>>76252269 (OP)
Eggs and dairy are both great

>>76252269 (OP)
I mix in whole eggs too even though the yolk add calories and slows digestion of protein. so a few fried eggs before, yogurt and egg whites with chicken or steak after.

>>76252269 (OP)
why no pea protein?

>>76252269 (OP)
what kind of desolate fourth world country doesn't have protein powder? You obviously have internet, open amazon or something nigga.

>>76252269 (OP)
Sounds like a good plan desu. I can get powders here but I'm trying to cut down on lead exposure. Finding unflavored isolate without aspartame is difficult, too. Ive been doing basically exactly what you are doing. 0% fat greek yogurt is almost pure whey. I was afraid about too much probiotics but I feel fine.

>>76252299
nta but lol imagine being consumable products off amazon

>>76253206
Imagine consuming anything you dont know the exact source of, didnt kill yourself. Could have been fed toxic shit. Animals food could be in toxic groundwater ect

>>76252269 (OP)
isolate
closest thing to a complete protein without eating eggs i think.

>>76253217
it comes from grub maggots mostly
you're drinking grub maggots

>>76253206
Imagine being in a scenario where you "don't have [X] in my country" when amazon is literally right there
Though I agree, even alibaba has better vendor vetting than amazon

>>76253228
The meat you eat comes frim grub maggots? Or do you know anythi g about the food your meat eats and tge envirinment it is in or what happens to it in transport?

Just drink milk...

>>76252299
>where tf do you live that doesn't have amazon?
Russia

>>76253240
you are DRINKING BUGS GOY

>>76252269 (OP)
Pea protein is excellent. Why avoid it?

>>76253255
because BRAPPING

>>76253206
>imagine buying products from a warehouse instead of buying from store that stores it's inventory in a warehouse.

>>76253253
Sounds like you might be too :)

>>76252269 (OP)
Greek yogurt is a partially drained fresh cheese. The whey has been mostly removed, leaving only the casein. You know the liquid you'll sometimes see floating on top of your yogurt? That's whey. There are very few whey products on shelves in general but one you might be able to find is ricotta, which is a whey cheese.
When you ferment milk, you curdle some proteins that are arranged into micelles. We call those proteins "casein." The yellow-ish runoff you get after curdling the casein we call "whey." The proteins that are free floating and thus suspended in the whey we call "whey protein." The powder you buy as whey protein concentrate is just whey that's been dried to remove the water. Whey protein isolate has gone through additional steps to remove the remaining carbohydrates, usually comprising about 30% of the dry whey by weight, leaving only the protein.
The reason casein is slower to digest is precisely because of its micellar nature. Micelles will tend to clump up into sticky/gooey globs that take a long time to whittle away due to its dramatically reduced surface area as compared to free floating proteins. That said, the effect is usually very overstated.

>>76253247
>look up "russian amazon equivalent"
>look up "protein powder available on ozon"
>click first link
You might just be retarded

>>76253217
imagine not knowing that amazon uses unified UPC binning including with returns and tampered items. there is zero supply chain verification at amazon by design. but nice try, shill.

>>76252296
>Cottage cheese gives me gas even though greek yogurt doesnt
Cottage cheese has much higher lactose concentration.

>>76253272
:)

>>76252269 (OP)
36% collagen diet, supplement collagen only.
eat normal meat.
congrats you've saved money.

>>76253368
It literally has a much lower lactose concentration. At least look at a nutrition label before spouting absolute nonsense.

>>76253206
>imagine being consumable products off amazon

>Greek yogurt is a partially drained fresh cheese
Its not so

>>76253387
god I wish I was a consumable product purchased off of amazon dot com.

>>76253396
Kek

>>76253380
It depends on where you live. A lot of mass produced fermented milk products bear very little resemblance to their namesakes.

>>76253411
No, it doesn't. It depends on how the dairy product is made. Yogurts have higher lactose concentration than cottage cheeses by definition of production. You were blatantly incorrect.

>>76253359
I hunt my own food i just think it'a funny when people who dont know anything about their food cry over shit like muh bugs.

>>76253420
Real cottage cheese is milk that's been clabbered and drained. By virtue of having fermented for a good while at room temperature it's quite sour and has practically no lactose content. It looks like pic related.
Greek yogurt is essentially made the same way albeit with a different selection of bacteria. It's also fermented at room temperature or up to ~40°C and then whipped to reduce the cheese curds into very fine particles before being drained. It also has very little lactose.
The two products, the real kind at least, have about the same amount of lactose present when made from skim milk. Having fat in the greek yogurt throws the math off a bit.

Cottage cheese however can be very easily faked with rennet, which is what a lot of producers do. The point of using rennet is to take the fermentation time from several days down to roughly an hour. It won't have time to ferment the lactose which will leave it far sweeter and it will have a smoother cheesy texture instead of being crumbly like actual cottage cheese; both qualities that are good for sales.

>>76253475
I didn't read your post and I'm not going to read any consecutive posts. Nothing I said was incorrect. You can Google any nutrition information for any plain cottage cheese and any plain yogurt. The yogurt will always have more sugar and thus more lactose.

>>76253483
I accept your concession.

>>76253483
Oh wow you're stupid, even by /fit/ standards

>>76253487
Whatever ends the convo. Have a good one

>>76253491
Sorry youre so upset

>boohoo I can't afford protein
bullshit

>>76253518
Porn has destroyed your brain

>>76253526
porn didn't invent semen

OP here, first reply. idk why people are pretending to be me. Doesn't matter where I live or why I don't have access at the moment, just answer the damn question. reddit fag responses attacking me for asking a simple question. Thanks to those of you who are being helpful.

>>76253534
Can you get ultra filtered fairlife milk?

>>76253518
>>76253526
>he doesn't get paid to drink protein
NGMI

>>76253348
>eating whole kilograms of powders bought over the internet

ngmi

>>76253570
>I need easy protein
>NOOOOOOOO NOT LIKE THAT YOU HAVE TO UHHHHHHHH HUNT AND KILL BOAR LIKE YOUR ANCESTORS WAAAAAAAAAAA
fag

>>76253534
If you want protein from milk, any skim milk cheese (skyr, quark, fat free greek yogurt) is going to have relatively low carbohydrate content and be mostly casein.
If you want whey specifically, there are whey cheeses (ricotta, myseost) that are made from cheese making runoff and depending on the cheese it may have anywhere from WPC to WPI levels of lactose.

>WPC or WPI lactose
this shit sounded like colognes now

>>76253261
S 0ya protein works great too and I've never heard anyone having brap problems with it.

>>76253530
Good thing I didn't say that it did.

>>76253889
>he can't just say ꜱoy
NGMI

>>76253375
Huh, I've always heard that collagen is practically useless for building muscle.
I've been taking it as a supplement recently for hair and skin benefits. Pill me on this anon

>>76252926
It's hard to get used to. It's fine in terms of supplement, but the taste and texture are a barrier for sure. Whey ISO goes down real easy.
I'm used to Naked Pea protein, so doesn't bother me.

>>76252269 (OP)
Those are all good protein sources you listed. It doesn't matter much when you take them. Don't overthink it, just get the right amount and eat whichever of those you want.

>>76253206
Curryjeet hating on amazon I've seen it all.

>>76253968
collagen is 36% of your body.
that includes tendons, organ, skin, and collagen amino acids are needed for hormone/sleep regulation also.
These three amino acids are Glycine, Proline, Hydroxyproline.
It's the most important amino acid combination in the human body, period.

>it's useless for building muscle
Tendon mass is always the first thing to go with snap city, watch any video, literally any video where someone tears a muscle. Does it tear at the midway point or does it rip from the insertion point?
Protip, it's at the insertion point about 90% of the time. This is called the MTJ (musculotendinous junction) so you can google this yourself.
Which means a failure of not the muscle, but the muscle+tendon.

This is because our bodies have no meaningful storage of collagen amino acids. The tendons quite literally are your storage, it's the only storage the human body has for collagen. Because in all other cases it is actively being used.
It takes 3 times as long to build tendon strength as it does muscle strength.
Which is why CHEAT always equals in a tendon tear. Because you are exponentially increasing muscle mass in some cases that does not have the tendon mass to back it up. See MTJ again.

So in the short term collagen seems useless, in the long term it is so much more important to long term health that you are wasting pretty much every single dollar you have ever used on supplementation going towards muscle building.
When collagen maxing (vitamin c, vitamin D, vitamin K, magnesium, collagen, etc) will ensure you never have injury to begin with and therefore no downtime to keep building muscle.
This also is equally important for joints, height maxing, etc since collagen is the most important factor in all of these also (joint degradation means getting shorter earlier in life)
I'm about to post limit so
CONT-

>>76253968
>>76254119
CONT-
So what does this all mean and why does it happen?

Well to answer one, we use to eat way more collagen in the form of stews/broths/etc. People use to throw entire bones into big stews and let that shit sit there dissolving and you would get the leaked nutrients from said bones into your soups. Collagen has increasingly been limited since we have started "meat maxxing" for meat based proteins.
The conversion rate is abysmal from meat to collagen amino acids, it's fucking abysmal.
You can eat 200g of protein daily and not hit your conversion rate, that is a lot of wasted meat protein going to nothing since your muscles have a max amount of meat protein they can utilize daily.
you are just pissing/shitting out the rest, it cannot be used, it cannot be converted in a timely manner.

Hints 36% collagen amino acid diet.
If we know 36% of our body mass at any moment is collagen amino acids, we simply eat that amount. Giving you the best known ratio of keeping the human body functioning properly.

If you are going to be deficient in either collagen vs meat amino acids. You'd rather be slightly deficient in meat amino acids. Since they are plentiful in our diets and you'd easily hit your ratio at a given time.
Financially this is also the most beneficial way.
Since you can also reduce your total protein intake of meat amino acids for the compensated collagen amino acids.

Example
>i need 100g of protein daily to maintain
>36g of this will be collagen amino acids
>64g of this will meat amino acids

>b-b-but anon
no buts, 36+grams of those meat amino acids were going to try and convert to collagen anyways and fail.
Which is why everyone ends up having to eat like 180-200+grams daily and STILL end up failing to meat collagen amino acid goals.

Collagen deficiency is the leading cause of aging. Look at old people.
>can't sleep, joints hurt, get shorter, stomach problems, breathing problems, organ failure, etc, etc ,etc

>>76254147
>>76254119
What do all of those old people symptoms have in common?
It's not limited meat intake, it's limited collagen intake.

The lungs are mostly collagen, the stomach mostly collagen, sleep deficiency is mostly collagen, joint pain is mostly collagen, most organs are actually built almost entirely on collagen.
Hell just looking older is a collagen deficiency, your skin is sagging because it has less stable collagen and you've been putting off maintenance of it for years.

So you can get big muscles sure, but you can't cheat the collagen reaper.
He comes for us all and when you are finally 60 years old and wonder why everything hurts and you look old as shit.
Don't say I didn't warn you brother.
Because all factors of aging are nearly always linked to collagen.

Oh final note
Even heart disease/strokes/etc are collagen related.
The walls of your arteries are made of elastin+collagen which is how they can expand and contract. only a very small amount of your arteries are muscle related.

>>76254119
>When collagen maxing (vitamin c, vitamin D, vitamin K, magnesium, collagen, etc)

Currently supplementing with 10-12 g of collagen peptides daily, and collagen maxing with the above vitamins. Is 10-12 g enough? All meat contains some collagen as well, so I get a good amount from meat as well. Even chicken breast has a collagen content of 15 g per 100 g. Chicken thigh has 32 g per 100 g. Pork and beef is probably similar depending on the cut.

Source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10340550/

So if you only eat skin on (even more collagen) chicken thigh for example, you are already pretty close to your 36% collagen amino acid diet. So it doesn't seem like a particularly hard thing to do. Eggs also contain proline, which is essential for collagen production.

>>76254224
Some of the issues you're not accounting for just for clarification and you should consider.

1. Cooking can make some amino acids unstable/unusable.
2. We do not absorb foods at a 1:1 ratio
3. While I use the words "collagen amino acids" specific types of collagen amino acids you can be hitting in abundance while others you are barely getting at all. Like you may get a ton of hydroxyproline, but barely any glycine/proline.
4. Collagen (not collagen amino acids, but collagen generalized) has other forms of amino acids in its structure.
See picture related.

So when I say collagen amino acids. I mean specifically the glycine/proline/hydroxyproline and those also have to be in specific amounts.
Please use this study to help you visualize.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6566836/

Hydroxyproline in particular is almost non existent in modern american diets. You can find a citation for that in the study when you get about half way through.

So just so we are on the same page.
We are talking pure collagen amino acids of the three Glycine, Proline, Hydroxyproline.
You're on the right thought train, but it's just a tiny bit more complicated than you're thinking it is. Like I said give that study a look and you'll begin to see what I mean.

Because it's unrealistic for you to live a diverse life and eat the exact same diet every single day with just eggs and a bunch of thicken thighs and skin. You have other factors to consider when talking body fat, exercise, etc.
The 36% diet is specifically talking about how to min-max your diet with 36% of it specifically being enough collagen amino acids to never be deficient. Not overeating in any form to compensate for anything.
if you are overeating, you're missing the point of what the diet was about.

>is 10-12g enough
I can't answer that brother it's your diet and your macro ratio I can only kind of show you the door, see what you think.
I supplement closer like 15% collagen diet. I also eat a lot of bone/skin

>>76254296
>>76254224
oh for citation I sit 205lbs, winter and 195 summer. I fluctuate very little on body fat.
I'm 36 years old.

At 29 I started having debilitating joint pain across body and lost almost an inch in height.
Switched to this diet strict for years, regained most of my youth ability.
Went from strict 36% to like I said 15% which is like a single scoop of gelatin or collagen powder in my coffee every morning. It's really not that serious.
If my joint pain acts up I increase for about a week or two and eat a little more fruits because they have a ton of synergy for joint health.

The problem becomes more evident the older you get with collagen.
As your stomach stops working as efficiently it compounds the problem of not absorbing amino acids in general. which compounds the problem of your stomach not working.

Get what I mean?

>>76254224
biggest lie the jews ever told was that Glycine and Hydroxyproline aren't essential amino acids.

yeah sure you won't die in ten days if you don't eat them, but you also won't be living your best life either.

>>76253562
hmm, I'm not sure! I do drink a lot of skim milk, though.
>>76253588
thanks! wait, fat free greek yoghurt is also mainly casein? I thought only fat free cottage cheese was like that? Thats a fantastic idea btw about different cheeses to eat!

also gets me wondering why nutritional labels dont have amino acid profile breakdowns on them

>>76254315
how can i get collagen without using pills or supplements?

>>76254335
What's hydroxyproline? I take glycine supplements and they're great. I have way less joint pain since I started.

>>76254392
bone broth or animal skin or just get over not wanting supplements since collagen supplements are bone broth or animal skin

>>76252269 (OP)
this chart will give you a rough idea of protein quality, use an ai if you want more info

>>76254392
gelatin, broths, lots of different ways.
I have a friend who mixes a little gelatin with cottage cheese for reference, barely taste a difference.

>>76254397
>hydroxyproline
hydroxyproline is basically proline with additional water, it the counter to proline.
tendons are basically glycine, proline, hydroxyproline in that order repeated forever until the tendon ends.

If a tendon is stretched, the stem cell is stimulated and it will respond by providing an additional hydroxyproline molecule at the damaged site usually.
This molecule is both firm and stretchy which is why our tendons can stretch around us.
If there is no stretch, the molecule will usually be consumed and left with just glycine+proline.
Proline being incredibly firm and just a small amount of stretch and glycine basically being firm with no stretch.

Hydroxyproline is basically only used for joints tendons, and fleshy bits across the body. however if you are deficient it can cause chronic inflammation which can damage the body in other ways.

For reference scurvy is what happens when you run out of hydroxyproline, vitamin C prevents hydroxyproline deactivation which is why sailors needed fruit. You eat the absorbic acid, it will recycle the hydroxyproline within the body when it is time.
Once hydroxyproline is deactivated it requires a shit ton of effort to replace it.

>i take glycine supplements
that is one way to get your amount.

>>76252296
>higher fat like hamburger takes longer to digest
slow cooked Corned beef with rendered fat takes no time for me to digest, chicken is medium and ground beef is longest. I love ground beef but by the time it comes to poop its large and hard. Mabye not by itself a problem, but combined with the rest of my diet i have to go easy on ground beef.

>>76254364
Whey is kinda shit from a dairy processing persepective. It's overwhelmingly water. You'll make 1kg of fresh cheese and get 3-4 liters of sour whey containing something like 30g of protein in total. For hard cheese it's more like 9 liters with a good chunk of it being pressed out slowly over days. Spray drying it into powder is pretty much the only worthwhile way of processing it energy-wise. Historically it's mostly considered a waste product that's quite hard to get rid of without ruining the ground for agriculture or waterways for marine life. There are a small handful whey cheeses around the world and Wikipedia has a list of some of them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whey_cheese#Varieties
There's sweet whey and sour whey. Sweet whey is the first runoff from rennet-based cheese making where them milk isn't allowed to ferment much of the sugar. Sour whey is from fermented milk. Most whey cheeses are made from sweet whey so like whey protein concentrate they contain generous amounts of sugar. Whey also makes for a terrible cheese consistency so many of them have added milk or cream.

>>76254921
>for me

>>76253255
le reddit pea protein barely has a complete amino acid profile and it's less bioavailable than protein from other sources.

>>76252269 (OP)
in addition to that one other guy i will give you the answer. eat real food. it's that simple. i can't believe how off topic 99% of these replies are. this board has gone to shit.

>>76254743
This is making me kind of paranoid now. I'm a vegetarian, so I just take glycine supplements instead of eating collagen. I wonder if I should find proline and hydroxyproline supplements. (Or maybe just make an exception for collagen.)