Anonymous
6/21/2025, 11:35:48 AM No.76285804
Is Mentzer actually based, or just an early adopter of roids? Some of his advice is good, but some is only effective if you're not natty
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Thread 76285804 - /fit/ [Archived: 957 hours ago]
Anonymous
6/21/2025, 11:40:46 AM No.76285811
>>76285804 (OP)
His thinking was generally reasonable, was it 100% correct, no. But his conclusions were fine
He used drugs but believed that Casey Viator hadn't in the Colorado experiment. He was definitely gullible. Bear in mind that many drug users consider themselves "natty" if they simply stop cycling for a while
He trained full body heavy weights like everyone did, and only a bit into his career did he start thinking about HIT and training his clients with it
He claims to have trained natties and users, but this might include fake natties or former users turned natties, as well as people with fantastic genetics anyway
But it all doesn't matter anyway, because all that matters is what works 4u, so you should try everything honestly and evaluate the results and how you feel. Including HIT, high volume training, and everything in between
His thinking was generally reasonable, was it 100% correct, no. But his conclusions were fine
He used drugs but believed that Casey Viator hadn't in the Colorado experiment. He was definitely gullible. Bear in mind that many drug users consider themselves "natty" if they simply stop cycling for a while
He trained full body heavy weights like everyone did, and only a bit into his career did he start thinking about HIT and training his clients with it
He claims to have trained natties and users, but this might include fake natties or former users turned natties, as well as people with fantastic genetics anyway
But it all doesn't matter anyway, because all that matters is what works 4u, so you should try everything honestly and evaluate the results and how you feel. Including HIT, high volume training, and everything in between
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Anonymous
6/21/2025, 11:45:43 AM No.76285824
>>76285804 (OP)
His training is more suited to natties than enhanced lifters actually. The whole long workout high volume trend started in the 60s with the big time roiders and peaked with Weider and Arnold. It's common advice that natties should have more rest days and can't grow from pump sets like roiders can. HIT is basically the logical conclusion of this advice - lots of rest, high rep quality and make every set count. Mentzer probably went too far with the rest thing, I think he advised 2 weeks off between workouts at a certain point, but otherwise his stuff is excellent for natties.
I'd read the modern HIT guys instead though since HIT has moved on a lot since Mentzer and Arthur Jones.
His training is more suited to natties than enhanced lifters actually. The whole long workout high volume trend started in the 60s with the big time roiders and peaked with Weider and Arnold. It's common advice that natties should have more rest days and can't grow from pump sets like roiders can. HIT is basically the logical conclusion of this advice - lots of rest, high rep quality and make every set count. Mentzer probably went too far with the rest thing, I think he advised 2 weeks off between workouts at a certain point, but otherwise his stuff is excellent for natties.
I'd read the modern HIT guys instead though since HIT has moved on a lot since Mentzer and Arthur Jones.
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Anonymous
6/21/2025, 11:47:07 AM No.76285825
>>76285811
What else, he was idealistic (hence gullible)
He never felt that he had won that infamous Mr Universe, he came like 4th or something and accepted that, he simply felt like everyone else did that Arnold shouldn't have won. He became the focal point of that belief by actually quitting over it, but everybody else felt the same way, it was judging/weider corruption
He called out the gay4pay that was happening among the top bodybuilders, the only one of that era to do so (implying that he's the only one known not to have partaken in it)
He got addicted to meth after quitting pro bodybuilding and while writing his articles and books. He was obviously an obsessive and autist, but generally believed to be decent and honest. He admitted that he had been duped when somebody involved in the Colorado experiment admitted that they had lied about Viator's drug use.
He was an absolutist, but his principles are best applied as generalisms.
What else, he was idealistic (hence gullible)
He never felt that he had won that infamous Mr Universe, he came like 4th or something and accepted that, he simply felt like everyone else did that Arnold shouldn't have won. He became the focal point of that belief by actually quitting over it, but everybody else felt the same way, it was judging/weider corruption
He called out the gay4pay that was happening among the top bodybuilders, the only one of that era to do so (implying that he's the only one known not to have partaken in it)
He got addicted to meth after quitting pro bodybuilding and while writing his articles and books. He was obviously an obsessive and autist, but generally believed to be decent and honest. He admitted that he had been duped when somebody involved in the Colorado experiment admitted that they had lied about Viator's drug use.
He was an absolutist, but his principles are best applied as generalisms.
Anonymous
6/21/2025, 11:48:35 AM No.76285833
Anonymous
6/21/2025, 11:52:38 AM No.76285846
John Heart, student of Mike Mentzer, Natural Bodybuilder
>Mr America overall winner 2013
>2x Light Heavyweight Mr America 2012 & 2013
>Natural Mr Universe (Tall) 2001
>Mr America overall winner 2013
>2x Light Heavyweight Mr America 2012 & 2013
>Natural Mr Universe (Tall) 2001
Anonymous
6/21/2025, 2:37:42 PM No.76286274
I find low volume high intensity single set consolidated workouts are best, and it's all thanks to him.
It turns out I was overworking and over training, I learned to cut redundant workouts and give my body much more time to recover.
It turns out I was overworking and over training, I learned to cut redundant workouts and give my body much more time to recover.
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Anonymous
6/21/2025, 3:00:02 PM No.76286341
>>76286274
Same here man, all though I don't follow his recommended 4-5 days of rest, I cut the volume on my workouts heavily and it works, at least for me. It all boils down to try and error at the end of the day.
Same here man, all though I don't follow his recommended 4-5 days of rest, I cut the volume on my workouts heavily and it works, at least for me. It all boils down to try and error at the end of the day.
Anonymous
6/21/2025, 3:06:12 PM No.76286358
>>76285804 (OP)
I agree with this Anon >>76285811. Will his training methodology give the maximum amount of gains for naturals? Almost certainly not. Will they grow a shit ton of muscle? Yes.
>or just an early adopter of roids?
Literally everyone he was competing against in his generation and the previous one were on roids. You'd have to go back to the late 40s to find lifters that we can be certain were Natural.
I agree with this Anon >>76285811. Will his training methodology give the maximum amount of gains for naturals? Almost certainly not. Will they grow a shit ton of muscle? Yes.
>or just an early adopter of roids?
Literally everyone he was competing against in his generation and the previous one were on roids. You'd have to go back to the late 40s to find lifters that we can be certain were Natural.
Anonymous
6/21/2025, 3:07:40 PM No.76286365
>>76285804 (OP)
>an early adopter of roids
lmao why the fuck people always bring roids up
do you think his competitors were natty and just trained hard?
anti-mentzer "do the work" obsessed dudes who in 99% cases have been lifting for less than 2 years are ridiculous sometimes
>an early adopter of roids
lmao why the fuck people always bring roids up
do you think his competitors were natty and just trained hard?
anti-mentzer "do the work" obsessed dudes who in 99% cases have been lifting for less than 2 years are ridiculous sometimes
Anonymous
6/21/2025, 5:02:29 PM No.76286734
>>76285824
My thoughts exactly as I started getting more advanced.
Natties can "absorb" only a little bit of stimulus from a single training and the sweet spot is actually quite low, the rest is just busy work.
Natties recover at a certain pace and there's no way to reliably hasten it.
Lifting reasonably heavy does a certain amount of absolute damage that needs an adequate amount of recovery (so basically just time if your diet and sleep are alright).
The logical conclusion is to lift heavy and with high intensity and with low volume assuming the max natty stimulus is achieved fast (prolly after one set to failure with beyond failure techniques to ensure full mTOR activation). Not too often too, my bet would be on 2 times a week to keep it sustainable and to not let the recovery deficit creep up with time.
Lifting heavy with high volume would be an incredible amount of absolute work done but if you reach the max stimulus fast then the whole work after that is a pointless expense of energy and durability.
My thoughts exactly as I started getting more advanced.
Natties can "absorb" only a little bit of stimulus from a single training and the sweet spot is actually quite low, the rest is just busy work.
Natties recover at a certain pace and there's no way to reliably hasten it.
Lifting reasonably heavy does a certain amount of absolute damage that needs an adequate amount of recovery (so basically just time if your diet and sleep are alright).
The logical conclusion is to lift heavy and with high intensity and with low volume assuming the max natty stimulus is achieved fast (prolly after one set to failure with beyond failure techniques to ensure full mTOR activation). Not too often too, my bet would be on 2 times a week to keep it sustainable and to not let the recovery deficit creep up with time.
Lifting heavy with high volume would be an incredible amount of absolute work done but if you reach the max stimulus fast then the whole work after that is a pointless expense of energy and durability.