IF YOU'RE NOT GROWING, YOU'RE SIMPLY OVERTRAINING!

IF YOU'RE NOT LIVING, YOU'RE SIMPLY DOING TOO MUCH COCAINE

>>76327470 (OP)
Unironically.

>>76327470 (OP)
Truth, but unironically. People are wasting their time and hurting their joints unless it's low intensity cardio like walking or light jog.

>>76327470 (OP)
I hypothesize that a lot of people fail to get results with HIT because they're using weight that's too heavy and/or not warming up enough. With more rest days between workouts, I need more reps to shake off the rust before getting to the really grindy reps.
I've gotten pretty good results with the 20-30 rep range lately.

>>76327745
Also: I work out in the mornings and don't use stimulants, so the grogginess necessitates a longer warmup as well. I don't think this is discussed enough in Jones'/Mentzer's work.

Then how come kettlebell fags just do swings and pushups and look good?

>>76327756
kettlebells are so awkward to hold that they activate a million secondary muscle just to stabilize properly.

>>76327802
And?

>>76327756
If they are able to do more swings and pushups each workout, then they are not overtrained.

>>76327470 (OP)
Fuck off roid tranny faggot

>>76327470 (OP)
Usually the opposite
>uh yeah but the science book says the opposite

>>76327470 (OP)
This guy fucking sucks. Got mogged by Arnold so bad he quit bodybuilding and became a junkie.

>>76327470 (OP)
Mentzer won

>>76328539
>got btfo by Arnold and 4 other guys
>became a methhead
>died at 49
>his legacy is a meme training style that no one ever got big on without drugs

He lost in every possible way.

>>76328595
Calm down Arnold

>>76327470 (OP)
I'm just not impressed by his programs. He seems to have been right about a lot of things. Especially the value of one good set. But the biggest I've ever been, I was sure I was overtraining. Just like he said I wasn't repeating anything until like 2 weeks later but I was doing a lot of said things. The most impressive program I've seen is DC wherein you hit each lift hard as fuck and only once every two weeks but within each two week cycle is 30 different lifts.
Maybe Mentzers way works if you're running or working or something in between the scant amount of lifts, but DC felt like such good cardio that I tested my run time and that motherfucker improved too. Also if you look into what Mentzers mentor Arthur Jones did to people that was a large amount of different lifts to failure for simultaneously rapid cardiovascular and muscular development.

>>76328608
As if Arnold ever gave a shit about Mentzer after the 1980 Olympia. Mentzer is the one who threw a fit and quit bodybuilding.

>>76327756
I mean if you just want to look lean with some muscle it's a good way to train but you won't ever get big with kettlebells and pushups

Reminder that Arnold himself said that the heaviest set is what counts and you can't just throw volume at the problem. Reminder that successful HIT guys are getting enough volume and successful volume guys are getting enough intensity. Reminder that this argument was engineered by megajew goblins to distract you and keep you from actually doing anything.

>>76327470 (OP)
this guy really told people to train once a week to get results while he was doing roids and meth on the daily

>>76327745
>do a push day
>get sore enough
>get caught up with some job stuff so I don't work out those muscles till a week later
>everything has improved noticeably
>bit sore after that session
>on next session 4 days later improvement still but not as noticeable
>not even excessively high volume, it's 12 direct sets weekly as a goal for chest for example
Hm, I wonder if I have to reduce vol or what.

>>76327470 (OP)
>IF YOU'RE NOT GROWING, YOU'RE SIMPLY OVERTRAINING!
This but unironically.

I also thought HIT doesn't work after fucking around with what little information Mentzer actually passed on and not making any significant gains, but then I started reading the old Hardgainer magazines from the 90s and their approach was much more structural and logical.

Hardgainer tl;dr
>the majority of people are plateauing quickly because they are overtraining
>train less and cycle intensity to avoid overtraining
https://stason.org/TULARC/sports/body-building/index.html

>>76328737
> Maybe Mentzers way works if you're running or working or something in between the scant amount of lifts

Literally doing this to get some strength training in while focusing on my running and seeing decent results and improving week over week.
Granted, I'm relatively new to fitness so probably can attribute as much gains to mind muscle connection building and finding out how hard I can actually push myself.

IF YOU'RE LIVING, YOU'RE SIMPLY NOT DOING ENOUGH COCAINE

>>76329634
There is no such thing as a hardgainer. There's a limit to the amount of muscle you can hold but the only thing stopping you from getting the next few lbs up until that point is lack of competence and pain tolerance.

>>76327470 (OP)
not sleeping enough, not intaking enough protein and (depending on one's situation) not enough carbs

>>76329634
The main thing is rest and avoid overlap.
Most of these meme exercises like isolation + compound hit the same muscles. Doing only compound avoids overlap

>>76329759
Do you think all people heal from injuries at the same rate?

>>76330076
How many sets would you recommend? Is the Mentzer method a good to go or should increase the volume a little, maybe a set more or two

>>76330169
warmup set if it's your first exercise for that muscle group at 3/4 main set weight
then main set till failure
A lot of his training methods are based on super sets too, that should definitely be noted.

>>76330169
1 set to failure is all you need. There's actual research on this by MacMaster university twice. The main study is trying to prove weight doesn't matter but also ends up proving only failure matters.

As for compound lifts
>Squats (I use a heavy backpack due to shoulder pain from the bar)
>Bicep pulldowns (or pull ups)
Rest 7+ days (1 week is a good estimate, but everyone has different recovery rates)
>Deadlifts
>Dips

That's my entire workout. I also do ruck marches for cardio but it's also a full body workout so it overlaps, so I rest around 7-10 days

I think i accidentally realized that rest is the most imporant thing in the whole bodybuilding stuff.

In the last month i was training really hard doing Full Body EOD and i came to the point that my lifts stagnated at the end of the 6th week and i barely could lift more than 2pl8 for 4 reps and my OHP and squat went down aswell, then I got sick last week and had to take a full week to recover. Guess what? I got back in the gym today and all the minor injuries I had they were gone and I was stronger than a week ago. Do you think it's better to switch to x2 full body than EOD? It seems logical when i go this hard

>>76330341
I found recently about Mike Mentzer, I'm trying his methods and I'm doing right now 2 days a week split, first day upper body second day lower body, should I do like you and make every exercise the same day and rest a whole week like you? Or you are doing that as a personal preference

>>76330371
Do whatever suits you best, just make sure you rest enough between sessions

>>76330097
Given the same diet and lifestyle, yes.

>>76329554
I think it would be best to treat it like an experiment.
I.e. continue with the current frequency until you hit a plateau. If you then reduce the frequency and are able to make progress again, then you've decisively proven that a frequency of once per week is better than once per 4 days.

>>76328505
he's over built

>>76330371
I'm the guy you're responding to.
Personally to save time I do it all together, but take a breather after the exercise (there's only 2).

The main thing is recording your progress so you can determine how much rest you'll need.
Let's say you do my workout (his routine), and you do it every 4 days and you're making progress, it's working and that's your recovery rate. If you don't make progress then rest an extra day or 2.

Personally I say 7-14 days is the sweet spot depending on how intense and how many things you did, like long jog or ruck plus that exercise.

The main reason I do once every week or 2 weeks is joints. All weight lifting impacts your joints, and under the long rest I have ZERO joint pain, tennis elbow, etc.

>>76327470 (OP)
But that's not what he said at all.
He explicitly said that it's either a result of a lack of proper intensity, overtraining, inadequate rest, or improper nutrition.

>>76329759
>pain tolerance
sorry brother but i tried this and the result is getting long lasting injuries. pain is actually a useful signal it turns out. resting is good.

>>76331914
Yes, there is some pain that should be entirely avoided. There's also pain that shouldn't be avoided and that pain gets more intense the further you progress.