If CICO works and it doesn't matter what you eat as long as you don't go over your calorie budget, then why do things like "clean bulk" exist? Where you add surplus calories but use whole foods with less carbs/sugar/fat etc. Would you not just get a better result if you ate clean on your calorie budget the whole time?
I'm starting to think CICO is a load of shit desu

>>76423916 (OP)
Im so sick of you retarded faggots “if CICO works” motherfucker it’s a description of energy balance and its effects on body mass, not a diet, not a new idea, just a description of energy balance. The idea of a clean bulk started in opposition to old school dirty bulks, when the advice to get big was to literally just eat a bunch of anything. Quart of ice cream a day, burgers, pizza, so on. If you’re eating calorie dense foods, and not doing so judiciously, you’re going to put on weight too fast and a lot of it is going to be fat and you’re going to look like shit. One day someone thought, “what if I didn’t eat the most calorie dense foods and instead I just ate modest amounts of normal foods like meats and starches and veggies” and wrap that up into the flavor of the month health diet and there’s the “clean” bulk. Beyond that, there’s a lot more to HEALTH than just how many calories you’re eating. Fiber, cholesterol, vitamins, minerals so on and so forth, and a “cleaner” diet is going to be getting you closer to what is optimal for you.

>>76423947
>

>>76423916 (OP)
>CICO is a load of shi
It's not but it's no where near the whole picture. What I hate are retards that pretend like CICO is literally the only thing that matters.
>>76423947
While this rant is incredibly faggy, that's proving the point that CICO is nothing more than the thermodynamic theory that supports weight loss/gain. In practice there is much more to it than that. So much so that hyper focusing on CICO is kinda fucking retarded. Especially because when you get everything else about your diet dialed in, CICO is an afterthought. If your diet is in fact good, you shouldn't have to count your calories.

>>76423916 (OP)
I dont think you even know what you're talking about. A "clean bulk" just means you dont eat a bunch of garbage and get fat.
All bulks should be clean.

>>76423996
>increase calories by 500 to bulk
>get enough protein for the "bulk"
what the fuck does it matter what else you eat in that 500 calorie limit so long as your protein is met?
if it DOES matter, then not all calories are equal and CICO is a lie. simple as

>>76423916 (OP)
Because a "clean bulk" is just healthier foods than processed garbage. It's not about the calories themselves but eating shit that isn't going to make you unhealthy. Sure you can be in a surplus eating only cakes but that's going to fuck you up.

>>76424035
Honestly the whole eat big to get big thing is a lie. Have you ever seen anyone besides a bodybuilder or powerlifter shill that shit? I haven't. The idea that building muscle is somehow so energy intensive is bullshit. Sure you gotta eat more the more muscle you have because it jacks up your metabolism, but just the building muscle itself, that doesnt need so much energy that you should be putting on whole pounds. It's ludicrous.

>>76423916 (OP)
Energy is stored in the body as fat or muscle. CICO™ closed loop feedback system.

>>76423916 (OP)
>I'm starting to think CICO is a load of shit desu
did you start yesterday when you made this exact same thread?

>>76423916 (OP)
CICO works on my machine.

Quality of food just comes down to whether you care about it or not. It's like building a house. You can build it with shitty materials or high quality materials, but you'll have the house in the end either way.

>>76423916 (OP)
Why is doing 2 things at once such a foreign concept to you retards?

>>76424307
>You can build it with shitty materials or high quality materials, but you'll have the house in the end either way.
cico believers will say shit like this unironically

Clean bulk just refers to a slight surplus, nothing to do with the quality of the food.
But it’s all meaningless anyway because you can gain muscles/tumours with steroids eating whatever the fuck you want.
A proper clean bulk would be eating a shit load of raw meat/organs and raw eggs and getting your carbs from raw honey and raw milk.
But again, you shouldn’t be lifting weights anyway because it shortens your life and lowers your T

>>76424616
>he doesn't know...

>>76423916 (OP)
yes cico doesnt work, the new meta is ozempic. hop on chud

cico as a model obviously doesn't represent the real world 100% accurately and I don't see anyone claiming that it does, but to think that it's fake because it's flawed just means you're too stupid to know how to use it. there is no model that can accurately depict how weight gain and loss works because there's too many factors and individual variation. cico is, undoubtedly a huge factor and most people claiming that some other bullshit worked for them like a carnivore diet or whatever tiktok trend usually end up fulfilling cico as a side effect but are top stupid to realize multiple things are in play

>>76424652
>Clean bulk just refers to a slight surplus, nothing to do with the quality of the food.
It's all about quality of food, because no one ever "dirty bulked" on chicken and broccoli. That's pizza and ice cream.

OP, people who don't believe in CICO will try 25 fad diets and then die fat. "IF CICO works and it doesn't matter what you eat" is a false premise because it does matter what you eat for body COMPOSITION, just not weight.*


*Except rabbit starvation because you can only digest about 1000cal of protein a day.

friendly reminder

>>76423986
Are you fucking retarded? If you "dial in" your diet but still eat 1000cal over your maintenance you will become obese no matter what you do.

>>76424908
But it is about calories. No one ever dirty bulked on chicken and broccoli because it’s overcooked slave food with zero nutrients and hardly any calories. It’s much easier to dirty bulk on sugary poison food

>>76423916 (OP)
Post body (you won't)

>>76425029
>No one ever dirty bulked on chicken and broccoli because it’s overcooked slave food with zero nutrients and hardly any calories. It’s much easier to dirty bulk on sugary poison food
Here's the thing, they're correlated but dirty bulk has ALWAYS meant junk food and always will.

>>76424616
Yes, they will. And they're right.

>>76423916 (OP)
Youre gaining fat with your one meal, like it or not thats not how you get abs like these. First off youre gonna wanna get running and lifting after meals because youve been naughty with your diet and those cheeks arent gonna be as slappable eating so dang much.

>>76425108
Listen here mister if i dont see a tight little 6pack then youre gonna get laughed out of this nail salon

"clean bulk" is truly the most retarded shit. I have no idea why virgin ectomorphs torture themselves like that. They are stupid

Im not saying to get all your calories through chocolate milk but like hit your protein goal and then just have fun with the rest.

I think it has to do with the belief that getting jacked should be a proccess of suffering. Honeslty

>>76423916 (OP)
>>76423969

Oh my god the actual state of this board is shite. None of you faggots actually work out. This has been asked and answered for decades.


There are two kinds of fat. Subcutaneous fat is the layer of fat just beneath the skin, while visceral fat is located deeper within the abdomen, surrounding internal organs. If you dirty bulk, it results in really high amounts of visceral fat, which :

>Damages your organs
>Clog your arteries
>will cause type 2 diabetes
>Is associated with cancers
>Will cause heart attacks

Are you guys familiar with sumo wrestlers? Those guys get big eating Chinkonabe. It's incredibly healthy. They just eat an assload of it because it cleanly puts them a surplus.

Also, no offense, but basically none of you faggots should even be "bulking" and "cutting." That works for advanced body builders who have been lifting for so long that the're no longer really making gains. If you're a skelly fag, eating a bunch of junk food "2 PUT MEET ON DEM BONES" is retarded grandma bullshit. You're just going to look paunch and weak.

This shit is not hard guys. If you're fat or thin, you do basically the exact same shit:

>Get on a real exercise program.
>Stick with said program for at least a year
>Calculate your TDEE
>Eat boring meals 80% of the time to keep macros within this window
>Get at as much sleep as you can
>Make sure you're doing consistent cardio
>Be consistent

The only difference is if you're thin you'll eat at a 5% ~ 15% surplus and if you're fat you'll eat at a -5% ~ -15% surplus

That's it. Asked and answered. You can go back to posting dumb images of each other.

>>76423947
This is the only post that's 75% correct.

Jesus Christ this board is straight up shite anymore.

>>76425700
They’re not. Anyone building muscle (tumours) while eating processed slave poison are using drugs

>>76426398
Yeah Chinkonabe is so healthy that sumos die incredibly young
Fucken idiot

an entire generation of people who can't calculate their TDEE correctly and blame CICO

>>76427036
Sumo wrestlers eat a fuck ton of fruit, vegetables, grains, and protein so they get all the their nutrients while also maintaining a surplus of calories as to gain the weight

Eating nothing but fat greasy food will fuck up your insides however, you can eat nothing but fast food, as long as you are in a deficit you will lose weight, big difference is that the fast food doesn't contain any nutrients are you are essentially starving your body while also filling it with empty calories

That's the difference do you understand?

>>76427089
There are minimal nutrients in fruits, and nothing in vegetables and slave grains.
99% of the population isn’t getting enough nutrients because they’re so brainwashed to focus on nothing but calories.
Everything you’re saying is a contradiction

>>76427171
>fruits and vegetables contain no nutrients

Proof?

>>76427177
Any vitamins in fruits are minimal, laughable amounts really.
Any vitamins in vegetables are usually destroyed by them being cooked because vegetables are disgusting to eat raw. Also full of phytoestrogens and glyphosate, oxalates
But you just compare the nutrient profile of a fruit and vegetable to any animal product and it’s laughable that slaves listen to their governments telling them to eat their fruit and vegetables

>>76427025
no