CICO: Taking a shit is Thermodynamics

>>76425156 (OP)
*Brabs a greasy pepperoni fart in your face*
Yeah

Point of this thread?

>>76425226
OP got BTFO now he is seething

>>76425226
to show cicotards being retarded

>>76425156 (OP)
>cico denialist
>gets btfo by an effort post
>screenshots the effort post
>posts it as a new thread
>looks even dumber
>too dumb to know he's dumb
many such cases

>>76425226
He lost an argument in a completely different thread and got so butthurt about it he had to make a new thread to hide his shame.

>>76425251
>effort post
by this you mean saying something retarded while trying to sound smart

Why is CICO being debated so much on /fit/ recently?
Did some Gen A influencer come out against it or something? It's been on the sticky for years and years without any controversy, and now suddenly there are multiple threads a day questioning it, over-analyzing it, trying to debunk it.

Honestly, it has made me ashamed that I share this site with so many literal retards.

>>76425259
nothing in his post is wrong. you likely had never even heard of Hess's law before he told you. you probably quickly googled it, skimmed an AI generated answer for 5 seconds and never digested it. you have no biology knows; you have no chemistry knowledge; you have no physics knowledge; you have no self control or will power. if someone put a gun to your head and told you to lose weight in a month or you're getting shot, you'd end up getting the bullet because your lack of impulse control is worse than a literal animal's.

>>76425266
Scientists like Herman Pontzer have been obfuscating it with nuance far beyond the understanding of fatties to where they glom on to any excuse they can. See this book for example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn:_The_Misunderstood_Science_of_Metabolism
Then you have retards picking it up, promulgating the information, and now we're here today with fatties having the easiest out of their life with Ozempic and somehow bitching more about diets than ever before.

>>76425266
Does the sticky mention thermodynamics?

>>76425268
Is taking a shit part of Thermodynamics?

>>76425282
By virtue of the fact that all reaction kinetics and energy transfer falls under the umbrella of thermodynamics, yes.

What exactly do you think thermodynamics is?

>>76425287
Is taking a shit
1. A kinetic reaction?
2. An energy transfer?

>>76425296
how exactly do you think excrement exits your body? here's another word for you to pretend you know how to use: peristalsis. it's the involuntary use of muscles in your digestive tract, which yes are understood via thermodynamics.

>>76425304
>peristalsis. it's the involuntary use of muscles in your digestive tract, which yes are understood via thermodynamics.
thermodynamics has nothing to do with bowel movements you dumb fuck
answer this though:
Is taking a shit
1. A kinetic reaction?
2. An energy transfer?

>>76425334
>muscles do work
>muscles require energy to do this work
>bowel moves via muscles doing work
>thermodynamics has nothing to do with this

>>76425334
>a kinetic reaction
you have no knowledge of chemistry. that word doesn't even make sense in that way.

but yes. taking a shit is a product of reactions and energy transfer. your body expelling excrement works through a multitude of reactions (activating muscles). and excrement with potential undigested calories leaving your body is energy transfer. it's leaving your body. it's calories out.

>>76425362
So shitting is
>understood via thermodynamics
because it involves a muscle that use energy
you're dumb

>>76425373
>and excrement with potential undigested calories leaving your body is energy transfer. it's leaving your body. it's calories out.
the energy is in the undigested calories which is in the shit. It's still in the shit when it hits the bowl
So it's not an energy transfer you fucking retard

>>76425398
if you look a the body as being a closed system, then the energy was part of the system and is now being removed. yes, it is energy transfer.
I'm sorry you've been shown to be wrong, but doubling down on your mistake won't make it better, just worse.

>>76425390
>fact fact fact
>REEE UR DUM

>>76425410
>if you look a the body as being a closed system
It's not though

>>76425412
if a muscle make me puke is puking understood by thermodynamics?
key word here is "understood"

>>76425398
The body temp of the shit is greater than that of the toilet water so it is an energy transfer on multiple levels.

>>76425418
doesn't matter for the therrodynamics of it.

>>76425423
yes, thermodynamically puking is understood.

>>76425426
It does

>>76425452
explain

>>76425431
someone pukes and you know why they puked through thermodynamics
>because the muscles used energy

>>76425460
if you cannot understand it at even this basic level, then you wouldn't understand it at the technical level either. nobody in this thread is going to waste their time trying to educate you on this, though maybe i'm wrong and some saintly anon has enough patience to deal with your bad faith ignorance

>>76425457
because the food has to be digested
that makes it an open system

>>76425460
>you know why they puked through thermodynamics
No. But you can describe the whole process thermodynamically. You can look at all the energies involved. It'd involve a lot of terms. But there will be no energy missing or unaccounted for at the end. The laws of thermodynamics will not have been broken.

>>76425418
Kek, can't make this shit up. If you want to consider the human body as an open system, then thermodynamics applies even more, and your metabolic rate can be entirely understood via black body radiation. No chemical reactions necessary.

>>76425473
lol. lmao even.

>>76425475
you're an incredible midwit
I'm not saying puking breaks the laws of thermodynamics
I'm saying it's not guided by it. It's not relevant as to why someone pukes
Just as it's not relevant to undigested calories coming out of your ass
And it's not relevant to lactose intolorance
etc etc

>>76425156 (OP)
I hate CICO autists so much.

>>76425480
The energy is in the food.
The food can go undigested or it can be digested and in different quantaties depending on a lot of factors like enzymes etc
That means the body is not a closed system

>>76425156 (OP)
You'd probably shit your pants in awe when you learn that you' exhale the majority of the byproducts of fat metabolism. And even the volumes of air and water it takes to even metabolize it are consistent and are covered by thermodynamics.

>>76425519
i know that and it doesn't prove CICO

>>76425505
>I'm not saying puking breaks the laws of thermodynamics
>I'm saying it's not guided by it.
lol. lmao. what do you think a law of nature is? methinks the midwit hath projected

>>76425505
see >>76425423
>if a muscle make me puke is puking understood by thermodynamics?
>key word here is "understood"
you asked if puking is understood by thermodynamics. and the answer is clearly yes. puking is no mystery to thermodynamics.

>>76425517
this has nothing to do with the body being an open or closed system. and it certainly doesn't make thermodynamics not apply to the process of digestion.

>>76425460
Explain how to shit and puke without using any muscle.

>>76425526
>>76425528
If you get drunk and pukes you didn't puke because of thermodynamics even if your muscle ultimate work within thermodynamics
I know that's an incredibly sophisticated concept for CICOtards but try and think about it

>>76425537
>If you get drunk and pukes you didn't puke because of thermodynamics
hey, wise guy, why do you think you puke when drunk? hint: it has something to do with a chemical reaction (thermodynamics!)

>>76425517
What does this have to do with the body being a closed or open system? This relates to the efficiency of the reactions in your body that utilize the chemical energy stored in food. There aren’t many reactions that I know of that are 100% efficient and this can easily be accounted for and understood by CICO. Enzymes, as stated previously, are just catalysts which are commonly used in lots of reactions.

Taking a shit, which is composed of waste products of reactions and undigested food that didnt react, is definitely a result of thermodynamics.

>>76425532
CICO
>If a process uses a muscle then the entire process is now guided and understood through thermodynamics and you can now claim that thermodynamics is relevant to understand that process
very retarded

>>76425548
Noble gasses do not react with other gasses, ergo they cannot be described by chemistry. Understand yet, chud?
>The property of being chemically inert means it's not describable via chemistry and thermodynamics

>>76425537
You co-ed the alcohol because you first ci-ed it, it's not hard to understand m8. It really is that simple.

>>76425548
>undigested food that didnt react
>is a result thermodynamics
undigested calories is a result of thermodynamics? How?

>>76425540
>hey, wise guy, why do you think you puke when drunk?
Alcohol is a toxin and puking from alcohol can be triggered by the brain

>>76425582
Wrong. Care to try again? I'll give you another hint. Alcohol irritates the stomach lining. By what mechanism might this occur?

>>76425557
pV = NkT
No reaction. Just thermodynamics. Is valid for noble gases, too.

>>76425569
E_food = E_digested + E_undigested
thermodynamics. wow.

>>76425597
NOPE! WRONG! My farts are not described by that, chud.
CICO cultists, istg

>>76425594
see
>>76425537
I know you're very very low IQ
but at no point have i denied that muscle use energy

>>76425613
It's funny you're accusing me of being low IQ when you're so hung up on this "muscles use energy" that you cannot understand I'm telling you that puking is caused by a thermochemical reaction between alcohol and your stomach.

>>76425600
Let's try again
>>undigested food that didnt react
>is a result thermodynamics
undigested calories is a result of thermodynamics? How?
adding them together doesn't answer the question

>>76425557
It’s not that the undigested food is chemically inert, it’s just that the reactions anrent efficient enough to utilize the entirety of the reactants.
>>76425569
The food not reacting isn’t a result of thermodynamics BUT it can easily be accounted for with CICO. Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you actually autistic?

I’ll agree with you that the anons pushing the poop being moved by muscles as grasping for straws when it’s actually much more simply explained the way I explained it.
>reaction efficiency varies from system to system
>add either more or less reactants depending on the system for desired amount of product

We’re conflating two different issues here, there’s the thermodynamics part and the chemical properties of reactants/conditions of the reactor part.

>>76425618
>i don't know what the first law of thermodynamics is
E_input = E_used + E_unused
this is freshman chemistry & physics, dude.
E_food = E_digested + E_undigested
can you see which term corresponds to which?

>>76425617
>caused by a thermochemical reaction between alcohol and your stomach
It's not. Go ask an AI about it

>>76425619
>The food not reacting isn’t a result of thermodynamics
Wow we finally got there!
why don't you call every CICOtard itt saying otherwise a retard now
>I’ll agree with you that the anons pushing the poop being moved by muscles as grasping for straws
They are doing so to try and defend this retarded ass concept that CICO is proven by thermodynamics

>>76425621
Let's try again
>undigested food that didnt react
>is a result thermodynamics
undigested calories is a result of thermodynamics? How?
adding them together doesn't answer the question
Let me repeat: i'm not asking you to add them together

>>76425624
>Go ask an AI about it
Kek, no wonder CICO denialists are so braindead.

>>76425613
>I know you're very very low IQ
No-one here thinks "this guys sounds like he knows what he's talking about".
The entire thread thinks you're retarded and also doesn't agree with you, you even talk stupid and could be not saying the retarded things you're saying in this thread and you would still come across as stupid. It's harsh to say but it's true.

>>76425648
well if you just insist on things that are untrue
well i guess that's what CICO people do in general
Go find any souce that tells you that
>puking is caused by a thermochemical reaction between alcohol and your stomach.

>>76425631
You deliberately took the parts of my post that confirm your assertion out of the context of the rest of the post that refuted your assertion. You do realize that poop is made of many things and not just undigested food, right?

Are you being a pedantic faggot on purpose for the singular goal of “rustling some jimmies”?

>>76425666
What does puking have to do with poop? Puking doesn’t violate CICO, in fact, it confirms it. Go ask somebody with bulimia, they’re usually pretty skinny.

This goes back to my point that we’re conflating two different aspects of CICO. There is the thermodynamic aspect and then the unused food/efficiency of the reactor aspect.

>>76425669
>You do realize that poop is made of many things and not just undigested food, right?
but there's some amount of undigested calories in you poop
And the amount is not understood through thermodynamics but digestion
and so saying
>By virtue of the fact that all reaction kinetics and energy transfer falls under the umbrella of thermodynamics, yes.
about undigested calories in shit is dumb

>>76425685
>What does puking have to do with poop?
see
>>76425423
you see retards itt think if a muscle is involved in something then that means you can claim it's understood through thermodynamics
and if you disagree they (because they are incredibly dumb) think you are disputing thermodynamics or that muscles use energy
Yes it can be confusing to follow CICO logic because it's retarded

>>76425685
>here is the thermodynamic aspect and then the unused food/efficiency of the reactor aspect.
And i was told by CICOtards that the reactor aspect is covered by thermodynamics
>By virtue of the fact that all reaction kinetics and energy transfer falls under the umbrella of thermodynamics, yes.
read OP

>>76425696
Oh okay. You just wanted to argue; thanks for clearing this up for me. Enjoy yourself :)

>>76425704
>>76425711
You’re hyper-fixated on one misrepresentation or assertion regarding CICO and claiming that because this one thing may or may not be true, the entire concept is fraudulent and useless. You’re so focused on this one tree that you can’t see the forest.

A reactor’s efficiency is different than another one, fine. Either put more or less reactant into that reactor for the desired result. It’s very simple and it just takes some trial and error. All of this falls under the purview of energy kinetics and chemical properties of reactants/properties of the reactor.

That’s all I have, man. Have a good weekend.

>>76425732
>You’re hyper-fixated on one misrepresentation or assertion regarding CICO
Plenty of CICO believers itt thought it was very important to defend it
>claiming that because this one thing may or may not be true, the entire concept is fraudulent and useless
I have not said "this point disproves all of CICO alone".
>A reactor’s efficiency is different than another one, fine. Either put more or less reactant into that reactor for the desired result
It depend on the reactant
Some foods are digested differently and their chance of being undigested is different
Whether they get shitted out or not is not just a matter of energy transfer and thermodynamics

>>76425156 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AphN1-4m_I
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6082688/#S15
>A spate of recent reviews claim to refute the CIM but these attacks are premised on a misunderstanding of physiological mechanisms, misinterpretation of metabolic studies and disregard for much supportive data
>In animals, dietary composition has been shown to affect metabolism and body composition, controlling for calorie intake, in a manner consistent with CIM predictions
>Admittedly, the evidence for these effects in humans remains inconclusive
>Limited evidence notwithstanding, the Conventional Model has an implicit conflict with modern research on the biological control of body weight
>The rising mean BMI among genetically stable populations suggests that changing environmental factors have altered the physiological systems defending body weight
>After all, inexorable weight gain isn’t the inevitable consequence of calorie abundance, as demonstrated by many historical examples
>Diets of varying composition, apart from calorie content, have varying effects on hormones, metabolic pathways, gene expression and the gut microbiome in ways that could potentially influence fat storage
>By asserting that all calories are alike to the body, the Conventional Model rules out the environmental exposure with the most plausible link to body weight control
>What other factors could be responsible for such massive changes in obesity prevalence? The Conventional Model offers no compelling alternatives
>Ultimately, high-quality research will be needed to resolve the debate, which has been ongoing for at least a century

>>76425643
>What is 2 + 2? And don't give me any of that "4" bullshit
Thermodynamics accounts for undigested food. Food not being fully digested doesn't break thermodynamics or CICO.
Besides, energy (like in heat, movement, deformation) is still being exchanged by the body and the food as it passes through your body.

>>76425833
>Food not being fully digested doesn't break thermodynamics
Where did i claim that retard?
>Besides, energy (like in heat, movement, deformation) is still being exchanged by the body and the food as it passes through your body
And some energy comes out of your ass because it's not digested
And a CICO retard says that happens as a result of thermodynamics
i then ask: how?
And he answered
>E_food = E_digested + E_undigested
Which of course doesn't answer the question about undigested calories being a result of thermodynamics.
But in you're retarded CICO mind you thought i was rejecting his equation as being true
Which is even more retarded

>>76425859
An incomplete reaction is a result of thermodynamics, though. If the reaction had been faster and/or there was more energy available the reaction would have been complete.

>>76425892
>An incomplete reaction is a result of thermodynamics
Chewing effects digestion and the amount that i chew my food is not a result of thermodynamics
etc etc

>>76425156 (OP)
>itt: op gets btfo'd in another thread and makes another thread to get btfo'd even harder

>>76425259
If you weren't an ADD ipad baby or a pajeet (functionally similar) you would recognize you got thoroughly BTFO'd. This is why 4chan has become retarded, effort posting nowadays is casting pearls before the swine so it's much more efficient to simply call you a retarded faggot and move on

>>76425992
Nothing is a "result" of thermodynamics. Thermodynamics explains how energy is or isn't transferred.
Thermodynamics don't cause you to lose weight, you eating less and your body using it's reserves for energy does. Thermodynamics just explain that you can't gain fat if you intake less energy than your body needs.

>>76425892
Chewing effects digestion and the amount that i chew my food is not a explained by thermodynamics

>>76426039
>Thermodynamics explains how energy is or isn't transferred
if i shit out an undigested calorie is the energy of the calorie transferred?

imagine if, instead of arguing across two threads over four days about the inefficacy of cico, op worked out during that time. wonder what would happen

CICO chads just can't stop winning

>>76426101
I haven't posted for 4 days
strange lie to make up

>>76426060
it is. longer digestion time and better kinetics = more complete reaction.

>>76426066
You seriously lack a basic unaerstanding of physics. Are you underage? Or homeschooled? You cannot shit out "an undigested calorie" and a calorie cannot transfer its energy. A calorie is a unit for measuring energy. You might as well be asking if an hour would transfer its time.

>>76426121
yet you saw and responded to my post within 5 minutes. sus.

>>76426125
>it is. longer digestion time and better kinetics = more complete reaction.
chewing more or less will make bigger chunks of food and increase the amount of undigested calories
And chewing is not explained by thermodynamics
Also if a bigger chunk of food is not broken down it's not explained by thermodynamics

>>76426125
>You seriously lack a basic unaerstanding of physics. Are you underage? Or homeschooled? You cannot shit out "an undigested calorie" and a calorie cannot transfer its energy. A calorie is a unit for measuring energy. You might as well be asking if an hour would transfer its time.
If i shit out undigested protein is the energy of the protein transfered?

all this coping reminds me of the meme where a sovjack is begging for optimal lifting advice and a swole guy is telling him to just go to the fucking gym.

>>76426182
I'm not gonna beg for advise from people who think shitting is explained by thermodynamics

>>76426198
Enjoy staying fat forever

>>76426218
too bad thermodynamics can't increase your IQ

Here's the truth. If counting calories worked (it does), then fatties would have to admit they have a skill issue (poor impulse control, no will power, submissive external locus of control, etc.) They claim they have hormonal issues or a slow metabolism which prevents them from losing weight by counting calories. The efficacy of Ozempic being entirely explained by not eating (appetite suppression) supports the notion that calorie counting works.

This puts fatties in a precarious position. If they cannot blame their hormones or their metabolism, they challenge CICO (remember: external locus of control). But as they've already observed, counting calories must work and so they need to get more creative in their excuses and blame-shifting. They now admit CICO works, but is poorly communicated and meaningless. You see, it's the quality of foods that matter!

While there is some objective truth to this, we shouldn't lose sight of what's really going on. If a fatty can blame hyper-processed poor quality foods for their obesity, then it's no longer their fault that they are fault (remember: external locus of control). Because ultimately, at the end of the day, if they truly believed what they were saying, they'd eat cleaner and lose their weight. They don't. I know this to be a fact because you cannot gorge yourself to obesity on clean foods (ranch dressing and other flavorings makes your food not clean).

And thus we return to square one: the fatty is not losing weight because they lack an internal locus of control; they lack will power; they lack impulse control. So if counting calories works and eating clean works... why aren't they skinny? It's the CICO cultists! They lied to the fatty all their life! If it weren't for those damn CICO cultists who didn't oversimplify anything, I never would have gotten fat in the first place!

See how the script works? This is why it's best to remind them, regardless of their copes and their arguments, TO PUT THE GOD DAMN FORK DOWN

>>76425156 (OP)
>he's so mad he had to make a new thread

>>76425557
>Noble gasses do not react with other gasses, ergo they cannot be described by chemistry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_compounds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon_compounds
Noble gasses require an extremely high energy to ionize* which is why they don't frequently react with other chemicals,* a property well explained by physics and chemistry.

>>76426264
>See how the script works?
yes the script is to call anybody who question your cult fat

>>76426283
post body.

>>76426066
>if i shit out an undigested calorie
You mean if you shit out undigested food with a chemical bond energy equivalent to 1 calorie. A calorie is a measure of energy, you shit matter, not energy as heat or light. The fact that a chemical reaction or series of reactions (digestion) isn't complete due to starting factors is within the scope of thermodynamics to explain. Insufficient chewing will lead to less surface area available for stomach acid to react with food to begin chemical breakdowns, which will further lead to less surface area being available for enzymes to work in the intestine. It's why when people make synthetic crystals they use a highly powdered starting material instead of pebble sized chunks, and it's why lots of industrial processes (like shoe glue [styrofoam butadiene] from ethanol over metal oxide catalyst) try to work with gas phase chemistry instead of solid phase chemistry - higher surface area leads to a faster reaction. The same principle is applied when people use a ballmill on gunpowder to make it burn faster - burning is a chemical reaction and the surface area of the solid gunpowder affects the speed of the reaction. Another example is activated carbon filters, which increase surface area by using a small grain powder. These kinds of reaction rate studies are thermodynamics.

>>76425156 (OP)
>OP BTFO so hard he had to make a second thread to get assmad in
Oh hey that's me! Any other general chemistry you want me to explain?

>>76425992
>Chewing effects digestion and the amount that i chew my food is not a result of thermodynamics
It is not a result of it no, but the incomplete digestion as a result of insufficient chewing sure is. You've put your cart before your horse here. It's like saying "lifting weight is the result of growing muscles."

>>76426264
You can definitely overeat to obesity on clean foods, but I agree with the rest

>>76425992
>Chewing effects digestion
affects*
So you really were ESL and malding over it, huh.

>>76426317
>you shit matter
that matter has energy in it. and that energy is not transfered from the matter when you take a shit so it's not thermodynamics
>The fact that a chemical reaction or series of reactions (digestion) isn't complete due to starting factors is within the scope of thermodynamics to explain
No it's not. That's like saying gravity explains 9/11
And human digestion is not like an industrial plant

>>76426339
>but the incomplete digestion as a result of insufficient chewing sure is
and the amount that i chew my food is not a result of thermodynamics

>>76426330
you can defend your dumb assertion that taking a shit is an energy transfer
One of the dumbest things i've ever read

>>76426372
>Digestion is a series of chemical reactions
>Reaction rates are thermodynamics
>energy transfer is thermodynamics
>the energy state of the body and the shit is explained by thermodynamics
I don't understand what you don't get, could you elaborate?
>>76426365
>and the amount that i chew my food is not a result of thermodynamics
Correct, it's one of the starting conditions you would use to evaluate the thermodynamic change of the food. Measuring the pressure, temperature, and volume of a container isn't a result of thermodynamics, but those values can be used to evaluate the thermodynamic changes of a system.
>>76426362
>that matter has energy in it. and that energy is not transferred from the matter when you take a shit so it's not thermodynamics
That energy in the chemical bonds is there as a result of incomplete digestion determined by starting factors, which can be evaluated to determine the thermodynamic changes. a reaction that is 100% complete or a reaction that is 50% complete are both evaluatable using thermodynamics equations.
>No it's not. That's like saying gravity explains 9/11
No it isn't. It's like saying "knowing the trajectory and mass of the planes, the structure of the towers, and the material properties of both allow you to make predictions to the final state of 9/11."
>And human digestion is not like an industrial plant
Correct, there are multiple more complex reactions in human digestion. That's why I listed a simple example you can build intuition on. That's how learning works. The fact that the chemical reactions are different does not change the fact that they can be evaluated using known laws and equations.

>>76426372
Are you denying that your shit has potential energy as it is leaving your anus?

>>76426435
it has potential energy in the toilet as well
for a CICOtards it's just calories
But the reasons why undigested calories ends up in the toilet is not explained by thermodynamics
That would be like saying gravity explains 9/11

>>76426434
>That energy in the chemical bonds is there as a result of incomplete digestion determined by starting factors, which can be evaluated to determine the thermodynamic changes. a reaction that is 100% complete or a reaction that is 50% complete are both evaluatable using thermodynamics equations.
Let's see those thermodynamics equations that can explain why a protein was or wasn't digested

>>76426453
>>76426434

Question to cico cultists. Why is it that I always used to be lean eating the same food and suddenly when I turned 32 and still kept eating the same food I put on weight? Always eating 2k calories

>>76426460
https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Supplemental_Modules_(Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry)/Kinetics/02%3A_Reaction_Rates
Here's the principles behind reaction rates. They're determined experimentally in reference to concentration or surface area of your reactants, by a proportional factor. If your body produces more or less of a given enzyme in some step along the digestion chain or you chew your food more or less, the reaction rate changes. Because food is in the body for a limited amount of time, this means more or less food will be digested.

>>76426434
>Correct, there are multiple more complex reactions in human digestion
Yes which is why mentioning "muh thermodynamics" is dumb. Kind of like... mentioning gravity in a 9/11 discussion

>>76426476
>Yes which is why mentioning "muh thermodynamics" is dumb
>The fact that the chemical reactions are different does not change the fact that they can be evaluated using known laws and equations.
I can't help you if you're not even gonna read.

>>76426469
usually what happens is that people put a little weight year after year dont nice until too late and then woah I got fat out of nothing
or maybe you dont know how to count calories in or calories out

>>76426474
>If your body produces more or less of a given enzyme in some step along the digestion chain or you chew your food more or less, the reaction rate changes
All things that you can't know from Thermodynamics or Kinetics. So the amount of undigested calories in shit is not explained by it

>>76426476
>Yes which is why mentioning "muh thermodynamics" is dumb. Kind of like... mentioning gravity in a 9/11 discussion
Gravity is a force, thermodynamics is a set of equations and observations that allow people to make predictions about the state a system will have, primarily from the lens of quantum state and energy. You want to compare thermodynamics to "Newtonian Mechanics," a set of equations and observations that allow people to make predictions about the state a system will have, primarily from the lens of macroscopic motion. Did you flunk out of high school or something?

>>76426506
>All things that you can't know from Thermodynamics or Kinetics. So the amount of undigested calories in shit is not explained by it
Did you forget about the "you observe initial conditions to determine end state" thing or are you just ignoring it on purpose? >>76426434
>Correct, it's one of the starting conditions you would use to evaluate the thermodynamic change of the food. Measuring the pressure, temperature, and volume of a container isn't a result of thermodynamics, but those values can be used to evaluate the thermodynamic changes of a system.

>>76425669
NTA, but does rustling jimmies fall under the umbrella of thermodynamics?

>>76426508
the comparison is that although gravity is fundamental to why 9/11 happened it doesn't explain it
Just like "muh thermodynamics" doesn't explain why there is undigested calories in shit
It doesn't explain how long i chewed my food and what effect that has on the digestion
And your reaction is sort of like saying
>wait?? are you saying gravity didn't effect 9/11
because you're a midwit

>>76426509
>"you observe initial conditions to determine end state"
digestion is not a closed system
you can't "observe initial conditions" of your digestion system.
Fx try and observe gut mobilty. You can't.
Observe enzyme levels. You can't.
Also there isn't an "end state" unless you count taking a shit as an end state
Which ofc is retarded and what this thread is about. you thinking that. KEK

>>76426140
There is more to chewing. Your saliva is already starting to digest food. So there is already chemical reactions happening. And just the chewing itself (or prior blending of food) is also tansfering energy onto the food: breaking bonds and other adhesive or cohesive forces which held your food together. And this energy will no longer have to be applied by the digestive tract, leading to faster kinetice and lower energy barriers.
Thermodynamics can describe it all.

>>76426158
The protein with all of its potential energy is transfered through your body, yes.

>>76426362
Thermodynamics don't require chemical reactions to be applicable.
Going back to the earlier mentioned noble gases: thermodynamics can describe how they act if you e.g. compress them, or heat them. Without them ever reacting with anything. It's still thermodynamics. As is you not fully digesting food.

>>76426453
>But the reasons why undigested calories ends up in the toilet is not explained by thermodynamics
It is. You'd just have to take an awful lot of stuff into account. But there is nothing in the whole pocess that is a mystery to thermodynamics.

>>76426534
Nobody on earth thinks the sole factor of weight gain or loss is thermodynamics. When people tell you "CICO" because you're fat and not losing weight, it's because reducing the amount of energy in a system reduces the energy the system has. When you eat and digest food, it gets converted into energy in the form of NADP/NADPH, which is a specific molecule the body uses to transfer energy across the body, like going to the bank with euro, USD, CAD, and AUD, and getting them all converted into yen - the cells in your body spend yen, but can accept any currency. This NADP/NADPH is then used by cells to initiate processes, like lipogenesis or amino acid synthesis. These processes use the energy gained from the bonds of food that was digested and the smaller molecules created by breaking those bonds to create things like muscle or fat tissue. All of these things can be understood using thermodynamics. Autistically screeching "BUT CHEWING ISN'T THERMODYNAMICS THO" or "SHITTING ISN'T THERMODYNAMICS THO" doesn't change that, it just makes you look retarded.

>>76426554
>digestion is not a closed system
It's not an isolated system.* Closed system and isolated system are not interchangeable terms.
>you can't "observe initial conditions" of your digestion system.
Not directly, that's why when you're being given dieting advice, people say to start with a TDEE calculator, and observe your weight change based on that. The fact you are gaining or losing weight on the estimated starting value is an observation of the initial conditions of your digestive system.
>Fx try and observe gut mobilty. You can't.
Except you can, that's what "hunger" and "shitting" are. If we want to be extreme, you could even do ultrasounds.
>Observe enzyme levels. You can't.
Except you can, that's something blood tests do.
>Also there isn't an "end state" unless you count taking a shit as an end state
What else would it be? Your body is no longer digesting the food, it 's not in the system. The reactions of digestion are over. What the fuck do you mean?

>>76426560
>Autistically screeching "BUT CHEWING ISN'T THERMODYNAMICS THO" or "SHITTING ISN'T THERMODYNAMICS THO"
weird then that you defend that claim

>>76426575
>weird then that you defend that claim
Except I didn't, which is why you can't quote where that was said.

>>76426573
>It's not an isolated system.* Closed system and isolated system are not interchangeable terms.
It's an open system. You managed to be wrong twice
>Not directly, that's why when you're being given dieting advice, people say to start with a TDEE calculator, and observe your weight change based on that. The fact you are gaining or losing weight on the estimated starting value is an observation of the initial conditions of your digestive system.
conditions which can change depending on diet etc.
>Except you can, that's what "hunger" and "shitting"
a CICOtard who doesn't know what gut mobility is. not surprising
>Except you can, that's something blood tests do.
not all enzymes show up in a blood test
>What else would it be? Your body is no longer digesting the food, it 's not in the system. The reactions of digestion are over. What the fuck do you mean?
Taking a shit is not a thermodynamic end state

>>76426584
Well it's in OP
idk who is who
all you CICOtards sound the same

>>76426639
>It's an open system.
That's why you have multiple sphincters keeping it closed?
>conditions which can change depending on diet etc.
Which is why people also tend to give diet advice along the lines of "eat a healthy balanced diet of high protein high carb and low fat," because changing as few variables as possible helps you gather better data.
>a CICOtard who doesn't know what gut mobility is. not surprising
So hunger isn't when there's little/no food in your stomach and not enough energy to engage other processes? What is it then?
>not all enzymes show up in a blood test
Which is why people don't tell you to get a blood test as a weight loss strategy, and instead tell you to observe easy metrics like "do you gain weight when you eat X amount of food?"
>Taking a shit is not a thermodynamic end state
Except it is. Your body is no longer digesting the food, it 's not in the system. The reactions of digestion are over. You've still not explained how it isn't.

>>76426644
>Well it's in OP
The OP is saying the reactions involved in digestion is EXPLAINED by thermodynamics. I don't know how you came to "shitting is thermodynamics" unless you're profoundly retarded or ESL. Those are just different sentences.

>>76426682
>reactions involved in digestion is EXPLAINED by thermodynamics
That's also wrong and retarded

>>76426672
>That's why you have multiple sphincters keeping it closed?
In thermodynamics, an open system means matter and energy can enter and leave
>Which is why people also tend to give diet advice along the lines of "eat a healthy balanced diet of high protein high carb and low fat," because changing as few variables as possible helps you gather better data.
Yeah because CICO isn't consistent.
You tell them to get on a steady healthy diet and then claim victory for CICO. funny how that works
>So hunger isn't when there's little/no food in your stomach and not enough energy to engage other processes? What is it then?
No it's not. Hunger is regulated by hormones
Also hunger isn't gut mobility
Another example of CICOtards having no knowledge of biology. Why learn anything when you can just call people fat
>Which is why people don't tell you to get a blood test as a weight loss strategy, and instead tell you to observe easy metrics like "do you gain weight when you eat X amount of food?"
so we agree that "Except you can, that's something blood tests do" was retarded. okay
>Except it is. Your body is no longer digesting the food, it 's not in the system. The reactions of digestion are over. You've still not explained how it isn't.
you think you body is a thermodynamic system that ends at your butthole?

>>76426738
>That's also wrong and retarded
>By virtue of the fact that all reaction kinetics and energy transfer falls under the umbrella of thermodynamics, yes.
So are you saying reaction kinetics and energy transfer aren't thermodynamics, that digestion doesn't involve chemical reactions or energy transfer, or that shit isn't the product of the digestive process? You usually have to explain WHY something is wrong.

>entire thread devoted to whether taking a shit is thermodynamics
>he's been at this for nine hours
Is OP ok?

>>76426801
>In thermodynamics, an open system means matter and energy can enter and leave
can enter and leave freely.* Your sphincters keep the system closed, unless you're such a fat hog you're shoveling food in your mouth literally all day.
>Yeah because CICO isn't consistent.
Except when you eat less you lose weight, and when you eat more you gain weight.
>You tell them to get on a steady healthy diet and then claim victory for CICO. funny how that works
Yes, because "CICO" isn't a diet, it's the underlying principle behind gaining or losing weight on a given diet.
>No it's not. Hunger is regulated by hormones
And hormones are released as a response to stimuli like "an empty stomach" and "a lack of energy to perform processes."
>Also hunger isn't gut mobility
This is the same argument you're making as "but shitting isn't thermodynamics though." Hunger is a response to an empty stomach and a lack of energy. A stomach becomes empty as food moves through your digestive track. Hunger is a product of gut mobility.
>Another example of CICOtards having no knowledge of biology. Why learn anything when you can just call people fat
top fucking kek
>so we agree that "Except you can, that's something blood tests do" was retarded. okay
Except blood tests still show enzyme levels. Saying "you can't measure enzymes" was the retarded thing. To imply it's a useful tactic for weightloss is an entirely different thing, one which I did say. Your understanding of the English language seems incredibly poor.
>you think you body is a thermodynamic system that ends at your butthole?
There are multiple "ends" of the body as a thermodynamic system, the butthole is one of them. For purposes of observing digestion, the butthole is the end of the digestive process.

>>76425282
Literally everything you, or anyone, or any animal does, including just sitting there with your heart beating and your brain--well whatever your brain does instead of thinking--is part of thermodynamics, you fantastically retarded pigger.

>>76426860
>can enter and leave freely
wrong. Show me one source that says that
>Your sphincters keep the system closed
doesn't make it a closed or isolated system
>And hormones are released as a response to stimuli like "an empty stomach" and "a lack of energy to perform processes."
try and observe gut mobilty. You still can't
>And hormones are released as a response to stimuli like "an empty stomach" and "a lack of energy to perform processes."
hunger and gut mobility is not the same thing so if hormones are released from hunger then you debunked your own claim that we can observe gut mobility through "hunger and shitting"
>Hunger is a response to an empty stomach and a lack of energy. A stomach becomes empty as food moves through your digestive track. Hunger is a product of gut mobility.
what was claimed was "you observe initial conditions to determine end state" and i pointed out that you can't observe gut mobility and gut mobility plays a role in digestion.
And incredibly retarded response is that we can observe gut mobility through "hunger" and "shitting"
which showed you don't know what gut mobility is. whis i would agree is pretty funny
>Except blood tests still show enzyme levels. Saying "you can't measure enzymes" was the retarded thing
you can't take a blood test of digestive enzymes in the GI tract and claim you "observe initial conditions"
>There are multiple "ends" of the body as a thermodynamic system, the butthole is one of them. For purposes of observing digestion, the butthole is the end of the digestive process.
how many "ends" does this so called thermodynamic system have?

>>76426947
But if i want to know how the brain works i can't bring up "muh thermodynamics" to explain it
Just like digestion which we can't understand through "muh thermodynamics"
Even though ofc they all involve energy
I know this concept is apparently very hard to comprehend for CICOtards

>>76427023
>we can't understand
speak for yourself

>>76426983
>wrong. Show me one source that says that
The point I was trying to draw was that your sphincter prevents matter from entering your stomach. It's not an open system for that reason.
>doesn't make it a closed or isolated system
If matter cannot enter the system, it is not an open system.
>try and observe gut mobilty. You still can't
Except you can for all of the reasons mentioned before. You saying "nuh uh" doesn't prove anything.
>hunger and gut mobility is not the same thing
didn't say they were, your understanding of the English language seems incredibly poor.
>if hormones are released from hunger then you debunked your own claim that we can observe gut mobility through "hunger and shitting"
How so? Hormones are released at the trigger of a lack of food and lack of energy caused by food moving through your digestive track. The observation of hunger is a direct observation those hormones were released, as a result of the gut mobility. Are you not able to make logical connections or are you just pretending to be this retarded?
>what was claimed was "you observe initial conditions to determine end state" and i pointed out that you can't observe gut mobility and gut mobility plays a role in digestion.
Except that you can observe it, so the point is moot.
>And incredibly retarded response is that we can observe gut mobility through "hunger" and "shitting"
The observation of hunger is a direct observation those hormones were released, as a result of the gut mobility. Are you not able to make logical connections or are you just pretending to be this retarded?
>which showed you don't know what gut mobility is. whis i would agree is pretty funny
Except I didn't, you just failed to connect 3 very simple dots together.
>you can't take a blood test of digestive enzymes in the GI tract and claim you "observe initial conditions"
Except you can.
>how many "ends" does this so called thermodynamic system have?
As many as there are biological processes in the body.

>>76427114
>The point I was trying to draw was that your sphincter prevents matter from entering your stomach. It's not an open system for that reason.
It's still an open system. It can exchange energy and matter
>If matter cannot enter the system, it is not an open system.
first of all a sphincter closing does not make it a closed or isolated system
Plus you're still breathing air (in your case through your mouth). So it's again not a closed system anyway
>Except you can for all of the reasons mentioned before. You saying "nuh uh" doesn't prove anything.
Before you eat the next time try and
1. google what gut mobility is
2. try and observe the effects that your gut mobility will have on the digestion of the food your gonna eat
when you can't do that then you will understand that "nuh uh" is correct
>didn't say they were, your understanding of the English language seems incredibly poor.
>>76426554
>Fx try and observe gut mobilty. You can't.
>>76426573
>Except you can, that's what "hunger" and "shitting" are. If we want to be extreme, you could even do ultrasounds
you did
>How so? Hormones are released at the trigger of a lack of food and lack of energy caused by food moving through your digestive track. The observation of hunger is a direct observation those hormones were released, as a result of the gut mobility. Are you not able to make logical connections or are you just pretending to be this retarded?
hunger is not a result of gut mobility
google what gut mobility means
>Except that you can observe it, so the point is moot.
for the food you're about to eat? How would you do that?
>Except you can.
nuh uh kek
>As many as there are biological processes in the body.
You think every biological process in the body has it's own thermodynamic "end" ? and they all converge with the final "end" which is the butthole? That's not how a thermodynamic system works. You're an idiot

>>76425247
>bodily processes take energy
>YOU'RE BEING STUPID!
are you retarded?
Fucking kill yourself CICO is the foundation of every diet and 70-90% of weight loss

>>76427255
>It's still an open system. It can exchange energy and matter
Except for the sphincter keeping food out.
>first of all a sphincter closing does not make it a closed or isolated system
Can matter enter your closed sphincter? No? Not an open system.
>Before you eat the next time try and
>1. google what gut mobility is
>2. try and observe the effects that your gut mobility will have on the digestion of the food your gonna eat
>when you can't do that then you will understand that "nuh uh" is correct
Already addressed in earlier messages. It's not my problem you're too stupid to understand a very simple explanation. Perhaps consider finishing English as a Second Language.
>hunger is not a result of gut mobility
>google what gut mobility means
Already addressed in earlier messages. It's not my problem you're too stupid to understand a very simple explanation. Perhaps consider finishing English as a Second Language.
>for the food you're about to eat? How would you do that?
By forming a history of how food affects your individual system, starting with a TDEE estimation and adjusting your baseline estimate from there. The way everyone who's ever said "CICO" when you complained about being fat has and will continue to.
>nuh uh kek
The difference is this has already been explained to you several times. The fact your English is so poor you can't understand a simple explanation is not my problem.
>You think every biological process in the body has it's own thermodynamic "end" ?
Yes, that's how time works.
> and they all converge with the final "end" which is the butthole?
No, that was never said. Your understanding of the English language seems incredibly poor.
>That's not how a thermodynamic system works.
Yes, that was an incredibly stupid thing for you to say. You'd have to be incredibly stupid or ESL to have taken that conclusion away.

>>76427312
>Can matter enter your closed sphincter? No? Not an open system.
and this makes digestion a closed or isolated system?
or is it your stomach?
either way it's wrong
>Yes, that's how time works
That’s not how biology or thermodynamics works. You’re just making stuff up now
Now i guess your cope about being completely retarded and wrong is that i'm ESL
Which suggest you're American which explains your lack of education on the matter and you flinging around terms like a monkey
That's what americans do
>I can eat slop cause it fits my calorie budget
>my butthole is a thermodynamic end
lel

>>76427374
>and this makes digestion a closed or isolated system?
Closed, yes.
>or is it your stomach?
Do you mean to imply your stomach isn't your digestive track?
>That’s not how biology or thermodynamics works. You’re just making stuff up now
It's not my problem you've not taken the two days you've been sperging out over this to read a single wikipedia article.
>Now i guess your cope about being completely retarded and wrong is that i'm ESL
I've said it multiple times, because you've clearly demonstrated your weak grasp of the English language and logic as a whole. The fact you're only just now bringing up this point only proves you've given up any legitimate defense of your point.
>Which suggest you're American which explains your lack of education on the matter and you flinging around terms like a monkey
Nope. It's also not my fault you didn't take the two days you've been sperging out over this to google a single word you don't know. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it not true, it just makes you stupid.
>>I can eat slop cause it fits my calorie budget
>>my butthole is a thermodynamic end
>lel
I can see you don't actually have an argument anymore. I accept your concession. I'm sorry you went to a poor person school, but all of this information is completely free in the digital age.

>>76425156 (OP)
its a material and energy balance. basic chemical engineering