Thread 76601013

Got invited to a dinner; kind of rare for me and I didn't want to turn it down. I'm taking a couple days to refeed slowly.

Some take-aways: Epsom salt tastes gross and was probably the reason I couldn't trust a fart. Next time I need a different form of magnesium for the electrolyte drink.

Things got weird on day 11. I had some minor cheats. Carbonated water with 1/4 teaspoon of lime juice, & 1/4 teaspoon of yeast flakes in a separate water shot (I was advised to supplement some vit b1 post haste and didn't have any on hand except for the yeast).
Seemed to wake my stomach up and I really started to feel shitty.

Next time I need my supplements sorted out before starting a prolonged fast. Need to stick to the electrolyte with no-Cal vitamins and nothing else. I'm back to feeling roughly the way I did after day 3-11 (albeit not much motivation for physical activity). I could keep on, I'm still overweight, but I'm stopping for now.

My question is: what's the ideal fasting period for dropping fat and hitting my metabolism back into function with a fucking hammer. Keep it to 5 days to farm the HGH surge? Just suck it up fatty and stop eating until not fat? 14 days? 21 days? 40 day Christ mode?

I know this works from past experience and after an accident years ago I finally mustered the willpower to set myself right again but since prolonged fasting rests in the realm of "fringe enthusiast anecdotes" it's hard to get a sense of what is the best course.

Epsom salt are usually used topically ,it has sulfur too so it can be bad.Just use mg chloride or mg malate or citrate in lower dose but multiple times throughout the day. Mg glycinate in plain water is pure shit,mix with some juice to make it easier.

>>76601013 (OP)
very good my son

>>76601148
magnesium sulfphate is fine so long as its usp grade, but it will make you shit yourself if you add too much.

>>76601013 (OP)
I am on day 5 myself. I let myself become a disgusting glutton. I was chasing a 400lbs bench and I got to 325 before I realized just how far I let myself go. Sure I could bench 325 but I had a gut with stretchmark. Those don't really go away but they can fade. I permanent reminder of my gluttony. They also burn.

I don't know if my day 5 counts because I have 2 white monsters a day which is 5 calories.

>>76601148
>Mg glycinate in plain water is pure shit,mix with some juice to make it easier
ah fuck. I ordered mg bisglycinate for next time reading it would be more readily absorbed, easier on the gut, and not promote a laxative effect. I thought the taste would be an improvement. Guess citrate will have to be the middle ground for whenever I run through that.
Can't do juice - no sugar. And if you mean artificial sweeteners I'd need a strong sense of the inert qualities of them as to not provoke digestion or an insulin response (merely tasting sweet can be a signal even if its 0cal) as well as not throwing any curveballs at my liver during a fast: it's got other things to do.
>>76601254
I'm very hesitant around sweets for above reasons.

>>76601345
Since youre putting it in an electrolyte mix, its probably gonna be alright. I had plain water with dr best mg glycinate chelate powder and shit was nasty.

prove it. post stool

>>76601013 (OP)
>what's the ideal fasting period for dropping fat and hitting my metabolism back into function with a fucking hammer
Either rolling 48's or 72's. So eat every second or third day.

>>76604528
>eat every second
This is not fasting anon, this is binging

was hoping to find more fast enthusiasts but oh well. I'll reflect on own experience
>>76604528
Bad general advice. First 1-3 days is the hardest and period of persistent hunger. It's the period of metabolism shift into full ketosis and the beginning of hormonal shift: highest HGH levels in the 4-10 day period.
The only exception would be if you lead into a fast with extreme ketogenic diet for 3+ days prior combined with IF. Or maybe if you're sufficiently young (18-25) with a strong tendency tor be thin / resistant to wait gain.

My reading leads me to 4-10 days being the period of greatest HGH levels. I'm still overweight, (down 21 lbs); am still considering a later 21-30+ day fast just for the achievement of it. Next time around I will stick with the common electrolyte solution ("snake juice") with the caveat of replacing magnesium sulfide with mg bisglycinate. Mg bisglycinate is generally described as far less unpleasant than MgSO4 but I haven't tasted it yet: I might ultimately have to sub with another form just to have the willpower to sip enough electrolyte all day. My research suggests the bisglycinate form is the most bioavailable, least laxative, least gut irritating.

I referred plans and conditions across several AI models and was consistently referred to the dangers of "refeeding syndrome: and a very conservative refeeding protocol (for prolonged 10+ day) including a solid day of only sipping chicken bone broth with additional days of slow introduction of 0 carb, easily digestible solid foods in sparing quantities. I imagine these advisories are highly conservative (i'll be back to a full meal by the 2nd night refeeding, no problems so far) but its worth erring on the side of caution.

>>76606321
My general take-aways. Prolonged fasts are probably useful for most people outside of severe mitigating metabolic factors. The claimed healing qualities are very real. Minor cuts and scrapes healed much faster than usual, my blemishes all disappeared. If outer signs are indicative of a similar internal process my overall health greatly improved.

I've been derelict in lifting for some years now beyond what I can do with a couple adjustable dumb bells and an adjustable bench. Without going into detail some years ago I began to fill a kind of overall fatigue, loss of will, then had a bout of severe illness and kind of spiraled. Perhaps If I had mustered the will to just fast for 10+ days I might have arrested the downturn and healed faster.

Ultimately I'd recommend occasional prolonged fasts to many people: particularly those looking to cut fat. Aim for 5 days. Sip electrolyte. Continue light exercise throughout. People overly concerned with losing gains might do the pure keto for days prior and shave some days of fast duration. Most of us accumulate inflammatory stressors from merely eating and... existing. Fasting is a strong means of recovery. The increases in natural HGH and muscle sparing effect of high ketone concentration makes fasting a far better cutting option than caloric restriction.

>>76601013 (OP)
How much did you lose? How was it?

Be careful about refeeding my friend

>>76606321
>>76606373
I JUST heard this today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDG1m_b5Ih0

He is hawking his program and clinic a little bit, but his protocols on refeeding seems legit.

He does a juice day for each week of fasting. (1 week = 1 day of juice only as a start)

He basically fasts his patients until their medical issues are resolved 10 - 20 days, with 40 days being the absolute max they do.

Interestingly enough he recommends inactivity during fasts, as apparently some studies show that if you're active during long fasts you lose more lean tissue. I dont know, I like to stay active, but then again I only do 48-72 hours, so that's peanuts to a week or two.

>>76606378
-24 lbs at the end. -22 now after night and afternoon of refeed. 1st day refeed was pure chicken bone broth till finally 2 eggs, ham, half avocado at night.
>>76606393
>@261 the idea of "fast wall resting" I don't know what the fuck he's talking about.
EVERY case study and report including david blaine fasting for 44 days sitting in a plexiglass box - being sedentary while fasting turns your body to eat muscle. IIRC ~44% of Blaines mass loss was mucle. Without adequate signaling the body turns on muscle from the signal that "welp - don't need this mass."
Maybe he works with a lot of athletes habituated to high intensity routines that can be counterproductive during fasts where their cessation is beneficial but the average American's baseline is sedentarism which is not a good fasting practice.

Dr. Goldhammer seems to be a real strong advocate of "plant based" which I'm going to call as: total horseshit. It's globohomo sycophancy. There's a point (didn't note timecode) where he refers to meats as toxin bioaccumulation factories. There's something to this as a great deal of our nutritional environment is polluted with harmful substances and things that should never deliberately be put in food. But consider the mercury issue with tuna. Is the problem the tuna? Or is it methylmercury. The line of flawed thinking is combined in the whole "juice fast" meme.

Much of the fasting benefit is tied to the cessation of insulinogenic foods and entering a deep state of ketosis. Why the fuck would you want to consume sugar water? He even admits the juice fast is largely about the elimination of other low-quality/harmful foods from the diet. Juices can be significant vitamin sources. Here's a thought - fuck off with sugar water and just drink the fundamental electrolyte salts modified with the addition of key vitamins (b1, [full bcomplex 6 & 12 for energy] some C and d3 and eliminate the sugar entirely). Even fake sweeteners can be insulinogenic and stimulate hunger.

>>76606393
From all I've learned there's a massive black hole in conventional wisdom regarding a great body of substances in food that are, for lack of a better word, fucking poison. That and there are likely significant nutrient deficiencies. It's very difficult to develop an accurate framework of just what those things are and what to eliminate due to the current state of research literature either fluffing low-cost industrial agriculture (and probably carrying water for more sinister objectives).

Furthermore the near entirety of "muh plant based" is prole submission to the commandments of Klaus Schwab. I give the caveat that there is wide genetic variability in humans and some people can persist eating bread and turnip mash; though I would theorize those individuals have managed to cultivate a gut microbiome that is synthesizing amino acids not readily available in their food in addition to genetic disposition. The whole gut microbiome issue is another black hole and not easily altered. A point for longer discussion.

For my part the best I ever performed in muscle gains and overall mental well being was with the largest dietary staple being free range chicken thighs with less frequent steaks, calf liver, pork loins, and various fish. I got dirt cheep beef bones from a local butcher and made my own broth in a pressure cooker. Are animals toxic bioaccumulation factories? Sure, probably. Even though the days of $1.99 per pound chicken thighs are long done and its pricier than ever to eat ideally that doesn't mean I'm going to follow the advice of someone that intellectually surrenders to the idea that cows cause "climate change." Push for free range. If you can buy cheap from local animal farmers or raise your own chickens: I envy you.

Over the interview Dr. Goldhammer rattles off a lot of the consistent and positive points regarding fasting but the juices and backwards concept of rest while fasting is just wrong.