Thread 76644280

why does he dislike the front squat so much?
what did it ever do to him?

>>76644280 (OP)
It's what it didn't do: add muscle

>>76644297
front squats don't add muscle?

Impossible to maximally load front squat and keep a straight back when you have a giant starting strength belly

https://www.ironmanmagazine.com/the-front-squat/


If you really want to find out how strong someone’s hips, legs and glutes are, have him or her do a maximum front squat. Many will argue that lifters can always handle more weight on back squats. While that is certainly true, the two lifts are very different and the biggest difference is that you must go very deep on front squats. There is no way to cut them off. It only makes them harder to do—whereas all it takes for a back squat to be considered valid and legal is for you to break parallel. That’s a lot of disparity.

Until powerlifting became an official AAU sport in the ’60s, nearly all aspiring bodybuilders and competitive Olympic lifters did front squats regularly and with heavy weights. The Olympic lifters, naturally, did them so that they could recover from heavy cleans, while the bodybuilders used them to improve strength, size and shape in their lower bodies. This was during the time when all top-level bodybuilders also competed in Olympic-lifting meets in order to gain valuable athletic points for the major physique shows. When Joe Weider assumed control of competitive bodybuilding, the points were eliminated and many who were interested in building their physiques began using leg machines exclusively. Those who did do squats always did the back version—never front squats. Why?

Back squats are much easier to do than front squats. Almost anyone with any athletic skills at all can learn to do back squats correctly in a single session. That’s not the case with front squats because very few people have the necessary flexibility in their shoulders and elbows to be able to rack the bar across their front deltoids properly.

>>76644280 (OP)
He's an obsessive boomer that thinks there's only one right way to do things

>>76644309
Not at the same rate as back squats, which is why they're an inferior exercise, and thus not applicable for general training

>>76644325
>Not at the same rate as back squats
why? because you do slop "power" lifter squats? with a 2 inch range of motion?
the front squats work the legs and the back at the same time.
low bar squats focus primarily on your ego lifting.

>>76644332
Because in order to move more weight you have to gain muscle. Since you move considerably less weight doing front squats than back squats, you're stimulating less growth. Is curling a gallon of milk the same as curling a 50 pound dumbbell? Which one will build more muscle?

I been doing a routine of bench, front squat and deadlift. Been great. Front squat seems better for giving checks and hitting im hockey. Also i want to do power cleans soon. But thick meaty guys do seem to be doing back squat

>>76644336
>build more muscle

Yes but where? Front squat builds smaller muscles up top and core to maintain upright position but that does at good strength too

>>76644323
his arguments are laughable

>only olympic lifters do them. a small fraction of lifters
ok then don't go to the gym. only a small fraction of the general population trains.

>you can't hump as much weight as a back squat
you can add a lot more weight on the leg press. why not train only the leg press?

>it dun hit them hamstrings
it does to a degree. but why obsess about the hamstrings? the front squat builds bigger quads.
>uh dun care bout no quads

I'm sure he has other excuses.

>>76644341
>smaller muscles
which ones? how are they not used in the back squat?
>core
what mechanism exists for strengthening the core that does not exist to a greater degree in the back squat with a larger load

>>76644345
Just strurally its obvious. Low back squat (heavier so more muscle what rip says) you are literally leaning over. Whereas you are literally upright for squat. Hence different muscles

>>76644321
>Joe Weider
Is this the jew who raped arnod little bussy into becoming famous ? Makes sense why he would want to bastardize the sport

>>76644344
the front squat does not build bigger quads, there is no evidence for this anywhere. load far outweighs any marginal difference in activation. why not train your hamstrings while you're squatting? Why eliminate a large muscle from the movement? The leg press isn't trained because, like the smith machine, it lacks a plane of motion. You're not forced to balance the weight, making it less effective.

>>76644336
>Since you move considerably less weight doing front squats than back squats,
you usually squat 80% of the weight from back squats during a front squat.
but we're comparing apples to oranges.
the slop squat range of motion with the front squat range of motion.

>>76644349
leaning adds more muscle, it doesn't take any away. Any difference in proportionate activation is more than offset by the larger load. If I pinky curl 2.5pound, or curl 10 pounds with my ring and pinky finger, which results in a larger load for the pinky?

>>76644353
what muscles are challenged further by squatting deeper? what advantage is there aside from "aesthetics"

>>76644352
>Why eliminate a large muscle from the movement?
it's not eliminated. you are training it.

>>76644352
>The leg press isn't trained because, like the smith machine, it lacks a plane of motion. You're not forced to balance the weight, making it less effective.
which is funny because rip shits on crossfit balance exercises.
hey, if it's all about weight then lets only do leg presses. you can add a whole lot more weight.
isn't that the point?

>>76644357
Muscles More Challenged in Deeper Squats


Glutes (Maximus, Medius, Minimus)

Why? Deeper squats stretch the glutes more at the bottom, creating a stronger eccentric load and greater activation during the concentric (upward) phase.
Hamstrings

Why? Increased hip flexion at the bottom of a deep squat stretches the hamstrings, requiring more force to extend the hips upward.
Adductors (Inner Thighs)

Why? The wider knee angle in deep squats (especially with a wider stance) engages the adductors to stabilize the hips and knees.
Quadriceps (Vastus Lateralis, Rectus Femoris)

Why? While quads are active in all squats, deeper squats demand more knee flexion, increasing quad recruitment—especially in the hole (bottom position).
Core (Transverse Abdominis, Obliques, Erector Spinae)

Why? Maintaining an upright torso in deep squats requires greater core bracing to prevent spinal flexion under load.

>>76644357
A lot of functional strength and injury prevention comes from getting strong in unorthodox positions.

>>76644366
hamstrings are used less and less the closer the glute gets to the knee. in a low bar squat, they don't get particularly close. in a front squat, they are very close.

crossfit "balance" exercises are mostly dangerous single leg dancing acts that aren't limited by the ability to produce force. strength is a reflection of force production, not ballet

>>76644369
you're not accounting for load variance. If you're squatting 80 pounds less so you can touch your ass to your heel, you're not getting a larger stimulus. Touch a barbell instead of chatgpt

>>76644373
>functional strength
define this

>injury prevention
substantiate this

>>76644321
He's so full of shit lol. Front squats are incredibly ez to learn if you know how to do back squats.

>>76644383
you mangled your slop squat's range of motion just to hump extra pounds. you don't even have to worry about the bar falling.
I bet you can fall asleep during a slop squat and the bar won't fall.

>>76644396
It's wedged on my rear delt, supported with the heels of my palms. why is the bar being on the front of my delts somehow superior? because you prefer it that way? I assure you I squat more than you back or front

Front squats give me unholy abs DOMs, same as pause jerks/push press

>>76644357
lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLVJTBZtiuw

>>76644415
>posts an aesthetic argument
I accept your concession.

https://youtube.com/shorts/cykkUnHISUM?si=Wv7gvC4S9932-PYi

notice how this doesn't get included

Its because rip is dogshit at coaching the olympic lifts and really pretty mediocre at teaching powerlifting as well. Rips hates on everything he doesn't understand or personally know. Bill Starr would really hate what he's turned into.

>>76644423
>can't see his legs
>can't see the plates
>youtube shorts
yikes

>>76644434
you know what's funny?
olympic lifts are part of his program.
lol

>>76644439
>binky boy hasn't seen the full vhs before
here's a long version for you. now listen to your superiors instead of watching sam sulek or whoever you kids are into
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ17RiLbUCQ

>>76644444
Checked. Boomers stay winning

>>76644444
still can't see the plates.
and whatever that clip is supposed to prove.

>>76644441
Yeah, I've seen his form for coaching. It's fucking abysmal and I honestly think your average crossfit gym is more qualified to teach the lifts than anyone associated with him. You could literally just ask the random autists in /owg/ and get better advice.

>>76644463
can you just not count? you have no knowledge of powerlifting beyond watching some apf clips strawmanned into a larp video.
>>76644467
>/owg/
lmao. newfags don't even know

>>76644475
even rip thinks that powerlifting is trailer trash.
he actually said that.

>>76644492
he's a literal cuck who unironically discusses his favorite pornos
I'm not stumping for Rip, I'm explaining that front squat faggots are weak and don't lift

>>76644497
you should try front squatting, tough guy.

>>76644504
I front squatted 405 on my first ever attempt of doing it

Dont care, still front squatting

>>76644530
Your wife's black bull doesn't count

Back squat hurts my lower back and front squats dont

>>76644280 (OP)
Well I'm not trying to defend rippletits or say we should actually do his programs, but the back squat is an objectively more "all-round" lift then the front squad is, so I guess it makes some sense that when you are doing a strength program (where the point is to have an as all-round and heavy as possible compound lift), and you have to pick 1 of the 2 varieties, you are going to pick the back squat.

>>76644280 (OP)
His philosophy is that you should use whatever form allows you to use the most muscle to lift the most weight.

Which isn't true for low bar squats BTW. The moment arm on the knee is so short that there is little to no quad activation. That's how you get guys like Stan Efferding who can squat 900lbs but still have chicken legs.

>>76644336
My legs started growing like weeds when I started training front squats exclusively. Back squats never did shit even though I was using more weight.

Front squats are great, but (high bar) back squats are still better for general size and athletic development. Even weightlifters can get away with just training back squats because they get enough front squat volume from recovering in the clean (like Lasha). They are however excellent for bringing up your jerk and push press, which brings up your strict press.
>>76644406
When I started weightlifting, doing lots of front squats gave me neck DOMS.

>>76644352
A low bar squat barely hits the hamstrings. The proper way to train the hamstrings is with stiff leg deadlifts or RDL's in addition to leg curls

>>76644354
Not when you lean so far that your shins are perpendicular to the ground and the weight is right over your knees. The moment arm at the quad is so low that there is hardly any quad activation regardless of the weight being lifted. You can lift more weight with this style of squat because the glutes are way stronger than the quads.

>>76644280 (OP)
The fatter you are the harder it is to front squat

>>76644392
Eh, my back squat is 345 lbs @ 135 lbs, and I can only front squat 135 lbs because of balance, shit wrists, and not liking the bar choking me

The low bar squat is primarily a lower back, glute, hamstring and adductor exercise, which is why powerlifters squatting 1000 lbs have huge glutes and hamstrings, but smaller quads than bodybuilders who weigh 100 lbs and less can't even squat 600

>>76644689
Yeah that tends to happen when youre a tiny manlet pipsqueak NERD

>>76644689
eat more, bro.

>>76644685
this isn't true and has been studied both by activation units and anecdotally

Front squat for training legs suck because your legs are not the limiting factor that's stopping you from adding more weight to the bar.

>>76644337
That's a good exercise selection. Consider adding push presses as well when you add the power clean to your program

I will ignore so called "optimal according to science" and do variations instead and be bigger and stronger than all of (you).

>>76644378
The relationship between your knee and glutes is defined by the le grh of your femur. Reformulate your argument.

>>76645239
No, it’s not

>>76644336
>Since you move considerably less weight doing front squats than back squats, you're stimulating less growth.
wrong

the muscles don't care about absolute weight
the muscles care about enough mechanical tention to stimulate hypertrophy