Thread 106864451

Usecase?

>>106864451 (OP)
extra binds for my bideo baems

Quick navigation. I absolutely hate Insert and Delete, though.

>>106864464
Insert, I understand. What's wrong with delete?

>>106864485
I just think it would be convenient if it merged with Backspace and had its functionality accessible with a modifier key.

>>106864451 (OP)
End is great for (((infinite scrolling))) sites

>>106864451 (OP)
imagine not having a use for home and end. what a sperg

>>106864451 (OP)
Switching between overwrite and insert, deleting characters, and navigating through text easier.

>>106864451 (OP)
I'm way too used to one hand on WASD and one hand on the mouse for those keys to be useful, they're in a very inconvenient spot for this setup. But I would imagine that if I had set up browser navigation to be keyboard only, using those Vimium extensions whatever they're called, then I'd have much more use for those keys.

>>106864451 (OP)
Other than the insert key, I can't imagine how you aren't using these all the time.

>>106864451 (OP)
I actually do use delete, end and home. Never once used insert and only used page up/down in vidya

>>106864451 (OP)
convenience

>>106864570
Afaik there are limited form-factor keyboards that do this and hardware-map shift+backspace to delete. But yeah- it would be a nice thing in general to save on an unneeded key.

...
What'd you turn it into though?

>>106864451 (OP)
Page/Home/End are great for navigating in less or journald. Delete im starting to use more but insert is just not very good

hard mode

>>106865260
All very good and useful keys.

>>106864451 (OP)
Copy and paste
Delete character after |
Quickly jump to beginning of document
Quickly jump to end of document
Scroll one screen up
Scroll one screen down
You should have learned that in school, anon.

>>106864451 (OP)
I get all but "Insert"

Every key that is not on a 60% keyboard is an obsolete legacy key, which is accessible through the fn layer only for backwards-compatibility.

>>106865260
Why is the print screen key hard mode?

>>106865468
Holy fuck, when did 4chans default images get so low resolution untill you expand then? I don't remember it being this bad.

>>106864451 (OP)
>>106865260
scroll lock/pause/insert you assign commands on loonix. all useful

>>106865503
the image isn't much better when you expand it desu

>>106864610
>Switching between overwrite and insert
No one has ever used this "feature" on purpose. The only purpose of the insert key is to turn that shit off for your parents when they get confused and ask you for help, but the other keys are useful.

>>106865589
It's pretty bad now that I've noticed.

>>106864451 (OP)
How am I supposed to get home without it?ysagy

>>106864451 (OP)
I use all of those but Home and Insert

>>106864451 (OP)
i use them all the time except insert which doesnt make sense

>>106865592
you use it when working with plaintext tables

Get a programmable 60%. All the functionality of a full size keyboard from the home row.

>>106865766
This. Old school keyboards are just worse by all metrics.

I use all of em except insert. Insert annoys me

>>106865766
If it's missing keys it doesn't have all functionality you dumb fuck

>>106866150
Do you need extra keys for each capital letter?

>>106865260
You can use the Pause button to pause scripts running in a cmd window. I learned this recently.

>>106866159
It doesn't matter if I need it or not, it doesn't have all functionality period. The advantage of 60% is being compact, not functionality. Some people use numpad like in accounting or blender. Where's the numpad in 60%? Peope use key bindings for gaming. Where are the extra keys? Maybe it's good enough for you but it doesn't have all functionality and it's not better in all metrics like the other anon is saying. It's a compromise.

>>106866191
If it's programmable you hold down a button and you get the numpad wherever you want it.
Same logic as how you need to hold down shift to get symbols or on many keyboards fn to get f-keys.

>>106866212
Oh yeah very convenient. Totally all functionality. Like 100% keyboards don't have that too.

>>106866222
Ok, I was a bit sloppy. Technically it's worse by at least one metric, you need one more key press for some functions, but for symbols it's the same because you don't need shift.
But it's the same functionality as in you can send every keycode.

>>106864451 (OP)
>delete
>end
nigga I use these all the time. Do those creamy thonky 300$ 80% keyboards not have that or what?

>>106864451 (OP)
Zeroing in my milsims.

>>106866110
What does it do? control+v?

>>106866261
If you program the keys and you're fine with holding the function key yes. To add to your argument most people don't know mechanical keyboards are programmable and today it's standard and open source.

>>106866295
It overwrites whatever letter is in front of the cursor. So if you accidentally enable it you type over what you already typed which is annoying

>>106866150
>raising your hand to use dedicated keys because you are too retarded to use a 4th modifier key
retard

>>106866324
toggle switches like caps and insert should not exist.

>>106865979
What makes you think all is a metric?

>>106864451 (OP)
>Usecase?
Navigating pages where retarded Indians overload arrow keys *and scrolling.*

Of course then there's YouTube where sometimes page up/down seeks the video when it's in focus which is just mindbendingly retarded.

>>106864451 (OP)
This is how a browse 4chan.

>>106866386
Better question yet: why doesn't insert mode have a dedicated LED among other annoying locks?

>>106866436
Stealth rape button.

>>106866436
because you see it on the screen: the cursor is a block instead of a line between characters

>>106866436
Oh apparently it's because the state doesn't persist across applications. Insert isnt a keyboard toggle, it's done in software.

>>106864451 (OP)
I use the home and end keys all the time when editing code. I use pg up and pg down occasionally when paging through man pages or something like that. I use delete rarely. I never use insert.

>>106866369
You're the retard that doesn't understand it's way more convenient and faster to just press a key, but no, you want to go full retard and stubborn and think it's not true. Go ahead, show how much of a mule you are.

>>106866568
Why don't we just have a copy button? Why don't we just have a paste button?
Explain how it is "more convenient and faster" to lift your hand from the home row, push a key, and reseat your hand compared to hold caps with your pinky and pressing another key on the home row.
You can't. You won't. You are simply too brain damaged and need a dedicated key.

>>106866568
In the end you should use whatever works best for you. I was even thinking about getting a programmable kb with arrow keys but the advantage (for my subjective workflow) is that I also get home row mods on my navigation layer, which feels very nice for ctrl + shift + arrows. The second thing is that I have pgup, pgdown, home and end right to my arrow keys now. I almost never used them before because it was awkward to reach when my hand was on the arrows, even though the arrows themselves felt nice.
I used to view small programmable keyboards as a huge meme but now I think they really solve some very practical issues.

>>106866683
Having a function layer with macros is a fucking game changer. I pity people who stick to default settings and are terrified of making improvements to their workflow.

>>106866324
That is actually not correct. Overwrite was the original behavior this key made it so, that you could insert instead of overwriting, if your software supported that. Now insert is the default so the insert key actually turns insert off.

>>106865612
4chan's datacenter located in an undisclosed location doesn't have all the storage in the world, does it

Of course. Here is a summary formatted for a quick, scannable 4chan-style post.

>>**Navigation Keys Cheat Sheet**

* **Insert (Ins):** Toggles Overwrite mode. Don't touch it.
* **Home:** Jump to **start of line**.
* **Page Up (PgUp):** Scroll up one screen.
* **Delete (Del):** Erase character in *front* of cursor.
* **End:** Jump to **end of line**.
* **Page Down (PgDn):** Scroll down one screen.

**Pro-Tier:**
`Ctrl + Home` = Top of document
`Ctrl + End` = Bottom of document

Now you can navigate without the mouse, newfriend.

>>106866802
>* **Insert (Ins):** Toggles Overwrite mode. Don't touch it.
I can use it in Vim instead of i to start writing.

>>106866825
>having your right palm on anything than jkl in vim
shyggy

>>106866825
>I can use the key that is light years away to start typing instead of using key that's already under my finger
For what fucking purpose you should use Insert instead of i?

>>106866844
It's a matter of can not of must. Also ins lets you toggle to replace.
>>106866851
It's not a matter of should but of can. Also ins lets you toggle to replace

>>106866674
I don't need to explain anything. You already showed how retarded you are.

>>106866683
That's correct. I'm not saying 100% is better for everyone but saying 60% is just as good is delusional. It's a compromise. You're trading number of keys for compactness.

>>106867325
You can't give a counterargument because you have none. You lost. Enjoy your inferior setup you cretin.

>>106867349
>it's a compromise
Your complete failure to explain why speaks volumes. Your position is literally "more keys is better".
You're an actual retard lol

>>106864451 (OP)
None, its garbage. Just get an 1800 format keyboard. Its what makes TKL boards retarded, you're still keeping a ton of useless keys and getting rid of an objectively useful numpad.

>>106867373
I don't need to make an argument. You already made the argument yourself. You retardly tried to pretend pressing one key is less convenient but it's obviously not true. Your own comment spoke volumes. That's how retarded you are and anyone can see it, except you, coping.

>>106864451 (OP)
Rotating blocks in Space Engineers

>>106864451 (OP)
85% keyboard supremacy

>>106864451 (OP)
home goes up end goes down on the same line
page up goes up and page down goes down on every line
delete is self explanatory
i don't really use insert

>>106867445
Explain how it is "more convenient and faster" to lift your hand from the home row, push a key, and reseat your hand compared to hold caps with your pinky and pressing another key on the home row.
You can't. You won't. You are simply too brain damaged and need a dedicated key. You need to lift your hand from the home row because you are too retarded to use a modifier.
You have no retort. You've been raped. I accept your concession.

>>106867544
Because it just is. I don't need to explain any further. The fact you don't get it is laughable and you're insisting in your stupid idea. Besides I can also map your "shortcut" with a full keyboard. Ever thought of that?

>>106864451 (OP)
Are you fucking retarded or something?

>>106867573
Ok, I counter with:
Because it just isn't.
That's how fucking stupid you sound. I accept your concession.

>>106867573
>Besides I can also map your "shortcut" with a full keyboard. Ever thought of that?
Yeah, and have a bunch of keys you never use. Dear god you are actually brain damaged LOL

>>106864451 (OP)
i literally have home, end, page up and page down keybinded to my mouse for navigating 4chan.
its one of the best things ive done with my "gamer" mouse.

>>106865260
>play music
>pause button doesn't pause

>>106867777
>place buttplug on your bum lips
>insert key inserts the buttplug in your bum ring

>>106864451 (OP)
This is the technology board
And faggots don't even know what these keys are for
4chan is dead

>>106864570
I do this on my 65% keyboard
Fn+Backspace is the Delete key

>>106864464
>>106864485
>>106864570
chords are a mistake

>>106864451 (OP)
Browsing web pages in general, navigating text, deleting text. I use every single one of those keys except Insert on a daily basis from web browsing alone.
>>106864570
Retarded idea.

>>106867652
>Yeah, and have a bunch of keys you never use.
There are a million reasons to have actual arrow keys. You expect me to believe you're playing games while holding caps lock all day?

The basic reality is that retarded 60% boards are a whole 19mm less wide than a 75%. Okay, you don't want a numpad, but why are you throwing away all those keys for no reason?

>>106868495
This is why 65% w/ 4-key nav cluster is king

>>106868539
nah f row is based. I gotta keep modifier key when changing tty or change boot at startup fuck that. 75% is where it's at

>>106864451 (OP)
extra binds for video games, super handy when shitposting on 4chinz (not "Insert", though), and they make my keyboards look slightly cooler.

>>106868539
I mean, vertical desk space is even less useful than horizontal. You've got to be retarded to get rid of F keys.

>>106868611
> vertical desk space is even less useful than horizontal
what a braindead take, you solder on it. and I also have F keys. just get a wider desk anon

>>106868640
If 30mm is the difference between being able to solder or not on your desk, you need a bigger desk, man.

>>106868539
For anyone who does any actual work, dedicated F keys and the full nav cluster are required
Maybe if all you do is play video games on your toy then a 65% is enough

>You expect me to believe you're playing games while holding caps lock all day?
Holy shit you actually just stick to defaults on all your shit. I was correct. You rebind your keys you fucking retard.
>There are a million reasons to have actual arrow keys.
And you couldn't name a single one.
>Okay, you don't want a numpad
I have a numpad you fucking retard. How are you so clueless about programmable 60%s?
>but why are you throwing away all those keys for no reason?
If I can access those functions from the home row, then having a dedicated key to perform that action is completely pointless.

You are actually so, so, so, cripplingly retarded.

>>106868665
nah I just push the keyboard up a bit and have plenty space. this way monitor is also a bit farther and I don't *need* 4K

>>106868495
>>106868773

>>106864451 (OP)
Insertion, deletion, homing, ending, paging up and down.

>>106867950
>t.

>>106868702
I just use tabbed terminals
Fn key + number row mimics F-keys well enough for everything else

>>106864451 (OP)
Absolute must for everything from webpage navigation to IDE navigation
Can't imaging how much worse things would be for a programmer if he couldn't quickly jump pages back and forth

>>106868702
For anyone who does any actual work, a programmable 60% granting you access to every keyboard function from the alphanumerics is required. Raising your hand, finding the key, pressing the key, then reseating your hand is objectively bad for productivity.

>>106865468
Real power users use win+shift+S

>>106869537
That's for a region screenshot. Different purpose. I'm not sure Windows has a window screenshot. It would be handy for Windows users.

>>106869654
It has a fullscreen screenshot (regular PrtScn) and an active window screenshot (Alt+PrtScn)

>>106869673
Ok good enough. I prefer clicking the window but that works too.

>>106869736
Win+Shift+S also lets you do that if you change the behaviour from a dropdown. At least on Windows 11.
The region screenshot is just the default behaviour

>>106866740
I used very nearly this in an AutoHotkey script I wrote, except Ctrl+PgUp/Dn instead of Home/End (which I put on the bottom row). Ctrl+PgUp/Dn are another way to switch tabs in most programs and my text editor them it to jump between paragraphs of code separated by blank lines.

My laptop has thermal issues now so I've been using my Steam Deck as a makeshift PC. It's Arch (btw) and I've looked into alternatives like kanata or keyd but haven't tried to jump in yet. Seems it's default configured to lock down the system software so most extra user software is just Flatpaks.

>>106864570
You should also mention that the function key should be where the left ctrl key is.

>>106869364
thats why you have nubs on the f and j keys muppet

>>106870321
Yes. And Ctrl should be where Caps Lock is. There's plenty of things wrong with the standard layout, but fixing them at home means I end up stumbling a lot at work.

>>106870438
notice how I didn't say "finding the j key" you giga retard, I said reseat your hand.
learn to read

>>106868773
>If I can access those functions from the home row, then having a dedicated key to perform that action is completely pointless.
Why do you have a bloated 60% board instead of going full chord, then?

home, end, and delete are vim for based people. i never use page up and page down. insert is only useful when you accidentally click it and go into weird mode, so you have to click it again to go back to normal mode.

>>106864451 (OP)
If you don't use every one of these keys many times a day you should just give up computers and move to a cave.

>>106871830
i always knew this place was ai

>>106864451 (OP)
My new laptop came with those buttons on the side and it's great.
>>106864485
Yeah, insert is useless, the keyboard doesn't have it on the side. Just the most useful ones. I use Home, End, PgUp and PgDown a lot.

removal of these single-stroke navigation features from your keyboards is a "merchant" conspiracy to get you buying brand new mouses or replacement rotary encoders

>>106869364
That's real cool now press shift+f2, or ctrl+insert

>>106864570
You are free to do whatever, but grandma should be able to do things on computer too.

>>106864451 (OP)
Hahah this faggot right-clicks files and clicks delete instead of pressing the key

I only started using these within the last few years. I used to just use Space for fast downward navigation, but I always thought "this sucks 'cause I can't go back up". And lo!

>>106864451 (OP)
>he doesn't know
and I won't tell you, stay pleb

>>106872670
Shift f2 is
num layer + j + w for me.

I have no hard data on whether a programmable split made me more productive (but I think it did) but the thing I can measure are typing tests with numbers and symbols and I'm faster and more accurate there now.

>>106864451 (OP)
It's for keyboard power users. itoddler like you won't understand

>>106871755
Because a programmable 60% offers the standard alphanumerics and modifier layout layout while allowing me to perform any action I would need to move my hand away from the home row to perform. This really isn't difficult anon. Keep up.
>>106872670
I can program any shortcut to any 2-key combo anon making it faster and easier than a full size. Without a macro it's just caps + shift + 2.
My caps is just another modifier anon.

>>106873139
You can also program a shortcut on a larger keyboard, and instead of needing to program a shortcut, you can instead just press the required keys

My nav layer, still enough space to add more stuff.

>>106865260
i can get some usage from Scroll Lock in Excel, but I'm not sure I have ever used Pause/Break. I wonder if it works on an IDE.

>>106864451 (OP)
I use all of those.
control + insert / shift + insert copy pase

>>106873156
If I can access a function from the home row, I don't need a dedicated key for that function. You are brain damaged.

>>106873199
Why can you not take this to the natural conclusion of "anything more than 12 keys is bloat", then? Why do you need so many superflous keys, you could just chord anything you wanted.

>>106864451 (OP)
Better yet, why identical sets of delete, alt, win, and ctrl with no hardware input distinction between left and right?

>>106864451 (OP)
home and end keys are so underrated imo

>>106873251
>Why can you not take this to the natural conclusion
At no point has my argument been to reduce the number of keys to as low as possible. Your inability to show where I made that argument speaks volumes. You're gaping so hard.
Your hands rest on the alphanumerics at the home row. A programmable 60% lets you access functions that would require you to move your hand away from that to perform an action. It's that simple. You're attacking a strawman because you've been raped.

>>106873251
Each finger has to move at most 1 key in any direction on my layout.
It's not about abstract bloat, or even desk space, just how your fingers move.

>>106864451 (OP)
Better than vim motions, fight me.

>>106873314
A programmable full size keyboard has exactly the same ability as a programmable 60% and more
If accessing functions from the home row was the actual goal you never would have fixated on size, your justification of your preferred size is transparently motivated post hoc reasoning

>>106864464
>>106864485
>>106864883
Ctrl Insert shift Insert for copy paste? wtf guys. I thought we're professionals here.

>>106873447
>A programmable full size keyboard has exactly the same ability as a programmable 60% and more
Except now you have a load of redundant keys you will never ever press because you can already access everything from the home row you brain damaged cretin. Use your fucking brain for 3ms before responding.

>>106866568
>it's way more convenient and faster to just press a key
sounds like youre agreeing with him then
>just press a key
vs
>reach over to some obscure location, probably have to look down or feel around, press a key, then back to home row

>>106873472
>redundant keys
Anything above 40% is bloat, you're just a poser

>>106873447
I have a 54 key keyboard, it has a dedicated number row. I bought it because it was cheaper than bigger boards anyway and I had the number row as a backup in case I didn't like that many layers. Now I never use the number row and will put some media controls on those keys when I have time.

About your chording argument: it is an argument and if I had the time I might use it, or even learn steno but for me it's about tradeoffs, inluding learning time. Learning a symbol layer is easy, very soon I was faster than with symbols on shift + numbers. Learning a new alpha layer is harder and my current alpha speed is much higher than my old symbol speed, so much more training needed to surpass it. So the return on investment just isn't the same once you go below 36 keys.

>>106873518
Stenography is really only worthwhile imo if you're transcribing speech, I don't see the benefit of it in other settings
I personally feel that the right compromise between dedicated key availability and size is a TKL, if I spent all my time in a single text editing environment then I could see the point in setting up more layers and shortcuts, but as things stand I don't suffer from fatigue day to day, I use a variety of programs each with their own keyboard shortcuts, and I don't actually spend that much time inputting text anyway, so for me the benefit of reducing finger travel doesn't carry the cost in flexibility that dedicated keys afford

>>106873589
It really depends on your usecase, your experience, even your hand size.
I had a few very concrete pain points, but a 60% wouldn't have solved some of them either.
I hate the position of right shift, now my shifts are symmetrical.
I hate the modifiers, using alt, shift and ctrl in quick succession is common to select and move words, now I have all modifiers on the home row, it's much easier when I have to combine them.
Backspace on left thumb is extremely fast, also j + bspc combo for delete word.

I just hope people with similar usecases would look into it, and not be dissuaded by memes alone. You can also get some of the benefits with software remapping.

>>106866416
This, I can't imagine browsing 4chan without Home and End.
Could do with page up and page down just fine though.

>>106864451 (OP)
Fighting games

>>106873497
I don't have to move my hands from the home row to access numerics.

>>106873808
Neither do people with full size keyboards because programmability is not restricted to a single layout

>>106873825
Except now you have a load of redundant keys you will never ever press because you can already access everything from the home row you brain damaged cretin. Use your fucking brain for 3ms before responding.

FREE MY BOY DRUMMYFISH

>>106872744
You're fucking out of your mind if you think most grandmas are using the delete key, they're using the arrows and backspace.

>another 41% "keyboard" owner coping with his crippled incomplete garbage.
There has to be a cheap full keyboard so these retards stop demanding everyone to remove keys.

>>106865503
It's a fucking thumbnail, tardlard.

>>106866416
>>106873680
>not using a vim plugin
y tho

Let me guess, you NEED more?

>>106875822
Why are you so terrified of making a case for full sized? Ah, it's because you don't have one. I accept your concession.

>>106875875
Binary or morse?

>>106876363
>Why are you so terrified of making a case for full sized
Why would anyone need to make a case for a normal keyboard? There is zero reason to cannibalize it and make it incomplete, other than saving the manufacturer a few cents.

>>106876363
100% keyboards are interchangable. You learn one you know them all. Each <100% requires some setup to achieve the same functionality.

Also if you don't have a usecase for every single button on a 100% you need to learn more keyboard shortcuts.

>>106873829
>60% bot is so broken he's going in circles
Redundant keys is obviously a self defeating argument because keyboard layouts smaller than 60% exist, see >>106873497

>>106865172
>page up/down in vidya
For what?

>>106876550
morse should be faster

>>106873402
Your fingers have arthritis?

I have remapped all useless keys to racial slurs.

>>106866740
What in tarnation am I looking at?

I use home and end on gay shit (like KDE) that don't use Emacs or whatever keybindings like ctrl-a/e and also shift insert sometimes because again KDE has to be a gay hipster and use that instead of ctrl-v for paste sometimes for some reason. Page up and page down are obvious, of course. Though I'd just as soon use the emacs keybindings. Funny thing is I got used to most of them from using OS X more so than emacs lol.

>>106876574
Programmable 60%s allow you to have access to an entire keyboard from the alphanumerics and modifiers. It's the standard layout except for keys you would have to raise your hand to push.
Raising your hand, finding the key, pushing it, then reseating your hand is objectively worse than holding a function key (caps) with your pinky and pushing a key.
>>106876578
Programmable 60%s can make any button combo down to just 2 keys. You're objectively more productive on a 60% when you learn how they work.

>>106877833
A macro layer? Hold Fn, push another key, get result.

>>106866740
Mental illness.

>>106878013
Why put the fn key there? Why put the nav cluster there? Why? Why? Why?

i use all of them except insert, hundreds times a day

>>106878048
Yeah being too retarded to understand modifier + key is a mental illness i agree.

>>106866825
i've actually wanted to use that recently but i dont have insert on my keyboard
you can use C-R in vim though that's another thing

>>106864451 (OP)
I use Delete all the time. Insert is the default "save a page" keybind for Honeyview, but I admit I don't even know what it does. Home and End are sometimes useful if I'm having mouse troubles. Page up/down is also useful for navigation.I could live without them, but I do use them.

>>106869364
>>106869292
>>106868702
why the fuck would i skimp on vertical space

>>106864451 (OP)
Insert is useful when working with formatted text, let's say a table in a txt file, also for ascii art, I use it at least once a month. Home to go back to the beggining of a sentence, several times a day. Same for end. Page up/down when reading a long document, it's more straightforward than scrolling. Delete is also very useful, you go back to the begining of a sentence with home and delete the first letter with delete.

>>106864451 (OP)
this thread is proof of why democracy and design by committee fails. all of these retard consumers who think fundamental keyboard functions are useless because they don't need them while they're cranking it to tranny porn. insane.

>>106878149
Why not use the numpad?

>>106877968
That's cool now press shift insert f2, or ctrl alt shift plus an arrow key, or just ctrl and an arrow key

>>106878155
Imagine a world where the mentally ill, in the face of being called mentally ill, turn around and claim the sane are actually the crazy ones. That's you.

>>106878457
i dont input enough numbers to warrant that, if i need it i'd buy it separately probably left handed and mirrored
i had a model m before and having a smaller keyboard is fucking great, 75% btw, not tkl, much easier to reach and takes much less space

>>106879664
>i dont input enough numbers to warrant that
Are we talking about the same thing? I was talking about using the numpad as the nav cluster

>>106879942
look at my keyboard and then look at full sized keyboard and tell me if you'd feel like moving your hand 10cm just to delete a character

>>106880015
Just buy a separate numpad

>>106880068
and what the fuck would i use that for dumbass i already said i dont need the numbers and the rest of the keys are right there i have an additional key where the knob is and it's enough for pgup/dn home/end and delete
i have prntscr bound to a key combination so i can reisub if i need to

>>106880015
Not him but I've never understood how 75%s got so popular
>non standard key widths
>incomplete nav cluster
>barely narrower than a TKL
They are the worst of every world, and yet they seem to be the default go to for many

>>106880087
>and what the fuck would i use that for
To use as a nav cluster dumbass I already told you

>>106880092
>non standard key widths
wrong
>incomplete nav cluster
depending on the keyboard this can be wrong, mine is just 1 short
>barely narrower than a TKL
also wrong

every key is 3u + spacer closer to my hand compared to tkl

>>106864451 (OP)
vim motions outside vim

>>106880107
i already have a nav cluster that's much easier to access
>>106880130
this
i fucking hate how GTK gutted key themes, emacs bindings are much nicer i could just C-E C-A instead of moving my hand but my USECASE apparently is invalid

>>106880143
How do you know a numpad in it's place wouldn't be easier?

>>106880184
because it's really fucking far away?

>>106880184
How do you know you wouldn't like my cock in your ass?

>>106880108
>non standard key widths: wrong
pic related, why are you trying to pretend that this is not the case when it's so clearly obvious
>every key is 3u + a spacer closer
pretty disingenuous statement given the position of a nav cluster on a traditional keyboard, at best the page up and down keys are 2u + a spacer closer
I also find this argument a bit flimsy anyway because I lift my whole hand to use those keys so the extra distance is negligible in my eyes, furthermore if I was hyper fixated on not moving my hands I'd just use a second layer for them
Really doesn't seem to justify missing one of what I would describe as important keys, if you stack them vertically there's only room for 5 of the nine right next to the modifiers
I also find it much easier to use the traditional 3x3 with arrows below them than a vertical stack with no spacers

>>106864451 (OP)
home = jump to the beginning
end = jump to the end
page up = scroll up but faster, useful to mark
page down = scroll down but faster, useful to mark
useful for laptops without the scrollwheel

>>106864451 (OP)
text editing

>>106880184
Because there's no spacers between keys? It's just a big jumble of keys with a tiny nubbin on the 5, so when you reach for it with your right hand without looking, you have to spend an extra second or two finding the right key instead of just instantly feeling your way to the right key in a traditional nav cluster

>faggot ass thread
>hold page down
>sage and report

>>106880208
>why are you trying to pretend that this is not the case when it's so clearly obvious
1.75 right shift is standard on some non-ansi layouts you mouthbreathing imbecile are you genuinely this dense? rest is regular 1u keys
>at best the page up and down keys are 2u + a spacer closer
you right im a spastic retard and can't count
>I lift my whole hand to use those keys so the extra distance is negligible in my eyes,
well i dont see how else would you do this if it's so fucking far the whole point of that layout i so i cant do it with my pinky
>Really doesn't seem to justify missing one of what I would describe as important keys, if you stack them vertically there's only room for 5 of the nine right next to the modifiers
picrel, as i've said already
>nine
the only key of those three i genuinely do use is SysRq which i have bound to a layer below, those 3 keys are genuinely worthless unless you really love having a separate screenshot button for some reason
>I also find it much easier to use the traditional 3x3 with arrows below them than a vertical stack with no spacers
baby duck syndrome

>>106866568
>it's way more convenient and faster to just press a key
space + a homerow key is literally magnitudes faster than moving your hand over to nav cluster and back

>>106880300
actually nevermind, apparently modifier keys on the right are like 1.25 or whatever i concede my point

>>106866369
>>106880310
what do you evne use for 4th mod? are you on ortho or something?

>>106880300
actually there's 7 of the 9 keys on that keyboard so unless you use Pause or that last one your argument is worthless

>>106878138
because it's fast, convenient and ergonomic? literally any sane person remaps capslock to another mod key like ctrl or fn

>>106880352
>not remapping caps to ctrl
you really hate your wrists dont you

>>106880300
You really want me to believe that you stretch your pinkie 3+ inches to press each of those keys? Either you're Andre the Giant or you're fibbing because the average male hand width across the knuckles is scarcely larger than that span, and that's only for the one on the home row, the keys above and below require a larger stretch, there's no world in which that's more comfortable than just lifting your whole hand and moving it over to a nav cluster

>>106880401
i move my hand equivalent to 1u to the right so my index finger could rest on "k" on qwerty and i can reach it are you autistic or pretending

>>106880338
nav, arrow keys, function keys, volume/media control, i use the calculator button a lot too

>>106880364
who do you think you're replying to

>>106880421
i meant "for" as in what modifier
i suppose it's FN and layer?
>>106880425
retard who maps caps to function

>>106873455
Why?
I can do Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V with one hand.
I can't do it with Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Insert.

>>106880425
unless you have it bound to ctrl and FN when held
w/e
>>106880442
you can, just use your right hand

>>106880414
You said
>I just reach it with my pinkie
Now you're saying you move your whole hand over and then reach it with your pinkie
I find this supposed benefit of moving your hand a little bit less to reach the nav cluster hardly worth the drawbacks that I've already detailed

>>106880438
I map it to control but I can see a good argument being made for mapping it to function. Literally any mod is an acceptable replacement to the default capslock retard shit.

>>106880442
What kind of fucking retard do you have to be to not recognise that ctrl + c is sigint

>>106880463
what about the masturbation key

>>106880190
>in it's place

>>106864451 (OP)
I use Home + End frequently (as keybindings on my mouse) to browse long pages.
I don't think I've ever used the Pause or Insert key, but I use the Delete key more often than the Delete on the numpad portion.

>>106877716
Reading books in Skyrim.

>>106864451 (OP)
>Shift + End to capture entire line of text
>if cursor is at end, shift + home
>shift + page down to capture large blocks of text at a time
>delete to kill those blocks

>>106878735
You've already asked this and been told how it works. It's trivial on a 60%.
>>106879086
You aren't sane. You need a dedicated copy and paste button. Modifiers completely broke you.
>>106880338
Everything I would otherwise have to raise my hand for. Now I can access every function from the home row.

>>106864570
>modifier key
Here we go again with the people whose keyboards have to have the least amount of keys possible
>>106865260
That key in the middle gives me an extra light on my keyboard :)

>>106881863
>Here we go again with the people whose keyboards have to have the least amount of keys possible
>again
At no point has the argument been to reduce the number of keys to as low as possible. Your inability to show where people made that argument speaks volumes. You're gaping so hard.
Your hands rest on the alphanumerics at the home row. A programmable 60% lets you access functions that would require you to move your hand away from that to perform an action. It's that simple. You're attacking a strawman because you've been raped.

>>106866436
It’s not a toggle, it’s use depends on application, some applications will use it to switch from “insert” to “overwrite” in text editing, others will use it as a dedicated paste button

Anything above 36 keys is bloat.

>>106870503
This is why i cant go with split keyboards ever because theres no way in hell ill use split boards at work

>>106882326
Why not use them at work? There are also unibody keyboards with a split layout.

>>106881730
>it's trivial on a 60%
because you have to use other keys in place of the keys you don't have, there necessarily exist key combinations which you simply can't press
Seems pretty silly really, I don't see why you continue to labor under the impression that you can convince everyone otherwise

>>106882649
Obviously you need one more modifier but you can send all the same key codes in the end.

>>106881955
Anything with more than ten keys is pointless, you can access every function via layers and key combinations, and you can do it without ever taking your fingers off the home row, taking your fingers away from the home row is inefficient

>>106864451 (OP)
makes vim less painful

>>106882664
You can never hope to have access to a greater number of keys than you physically have at any one time, a keyboard with 65 physical keys allows you to press 65 different keys per layer, but because there are over 100 keys on a standard keyboard you'll need to learn 40 different layers to have access to them all at the same time, and even then
And suddenly any argument for greater efficiency is null and void
Compare and contrast with the ease and simplicity of just having a few more dedicated keys

dwarf fortress

>>106880092
>>non standard key widths
This is a good thing for modifiers. I hate the 1.75U retardation you find on every other board, my 75% board uses 1U for all mod row keys aside from left ctrl and a 5.5U spacebar. I get 8 mod keys while you get 6 or 7.
>incomplete nav cluster
This is fair, although it depends on the design. My old 75% had a 7 key nav cluster, this one has a spaced F row which only gives it 5. Personally, I don't care for the buttons I'm missing, and I'm okay with using a function layer to access them.

>>barely narrower than a TKL
I mean, it's >2U narrower. I think 75% is the best balance, and I find the partial nav cluster much easier to use in conjunction with the arrow keys.

>>106883495
>smaller modifiers are better
I wholeheartedly disagree, for keys that you're supposed to press with your little finger the extra width makes a world of difference

>>106882731
You don't need 40 layers, you only need one additional layer with 40 keys.
It's actually not hard to learn because you can arrange them in an ergonomic and logical way.

>>106884073
But while you're in that second layer, you do not have access to the keys that are accessing their second function, so if you want to have access to every key, you will actually

>>106884095
I don't get what you mean. You have 60 keys on the base layer and 40 on the second layer, that's 100 keys.
Or do you mean something like you can't press certain combos? That only matters for modifiers, all my layers have the same modifiers, all have space, enter etc. on the same positions.

Home - pull Reshade up
End - turn it on/off

>>106864451 (OP)
im in the terminal a lot so these all make that a breeze

>>106864451 (OP)
op making a thread
and me calling op a nigger retard

>>106864451 (OP)
Pg Up/Dn are alright, arrow keys pretty much do the job of insert. It takes less effort to hold Lshift+Lctrl and to press arrows in the direction you want to delete entire words at a time, typing the word in again properly instead of moving the cursor by arrow to replace one or two letters feels painful. Holding ctrl and using arrow keys moves the cursor by words at a time.

>>106885217
If you just want to delete the last word you can also do ctrl bspc.

>>106864451 (OP)
Used to put my potions and skills on those in MapleStory.