Thread 107142158

How did they do it?

fuck i know

it wasn't technically illegal yet

>>107142158 (OP)
>how
..
>use millions of dollars worth of computers supplied by a telco to create unix and c
>use telco and academia as an enormous testing ground
/thread

>>107142158 (OP)
They understood how computers worked.

Today, app engineers and artisan programmers only understand how their frameworks work.

lots of drugs

>>107142319
I understand computahs but have no clue about my framework. I do not even know wtf linking is, I just code in assembly and everything werks.

>>107142158 (OP)
Do what?
Pascal was better.

>>107142158 (OP)
right place right time
anyone could have done it

>>107142158 (OP)
Unrestricted whiteness.

>>107142158 (OP)
I think all the awful things in CS can be traced back to C or UNIX.

>>107142297
No not really. They convinced the middle mgmt at Bell Labs to buy a shitty & underpowered PDP machine to support a minor bureaucratic need in the organization. During the overnights when it wasn't being used (which was the only time they could do so) was when they did their magic, inventing both C and UNIX in the process.

they asked chatgpt how to design a programming language

>>107142158 (OP)
what hacking shit around in a shitty way and then people making up why is areally good desing?
c is a mess and unix is too, both full of really outdated way of doing it bc we need to pretend that we are on a pdp11, like the filesystem, it is that way bc they were getting their hard discs full, it was never a proper design
even aislop anon knows >>107142949

>>107144378
You shouldn't do that btw.

>>107142158 (OP)
aliens and meth

>>107142158 (OP)
crack

>>107144331
Did you watch that bell labs vintage vid too? What a cool time and place.

>>107142158 (OP)
His wife took a three week vacation and he used the time to write Unix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY6q5dv_B-o&t=1365s

how did he do it?

shrooms

>>107142158 (OP)
Ken Thompson was only able to write unix because his wife went on a vacation for a month to visit her parents with their newborn son. If she had not gone on vacation Ken never would have had the time to design unix.

>>107146500
He's a legend for netscape. He's a fag for crypto scam browser. JS is a brown wasteland, but that's not his fault.

I'm torn.

>>107146805
>JS is a brown wasteland
I love him for this but I am very biased since I am learning it currently and it is my first programming language, I have a lot of fun with it and would even kiss javascript if I could

>>107146855
It's sooo messy though. I learned c first, so I could still pick ijs up, but it's almost designed to be unreadable.

>>107146868
Granted, you can get a shot ton down with the fewest lines of code imaginable.

It is a shame shit actually designed to be good didnt get popular... but those same designs made also more difficult to be ported in the myriad of architectures back then

>>107142158 (OP)
Faustian spirit.

>>107142297
???? they come up with things that where never writen about

>>107146937
2 guys hacking something together in their spare time, against company policy, build better shit than 5 mega corps and the feds trying to build something perfect by committee.

C just works, and works on everything, and Unix derivatives power everything but, everyone's favorite, windows 11.

>>107146978
c is awful, and i program in it
unix was not better, like at all, itsreal benefit and the reason why it got where it got is that it was easier to port and spread for free, not technical merit
same shit that does now giving free licenses for free and allowing pirates to the non profesional user, it gives a huge base of users to subpar products

>>107144331
>inventing both C and UNIX in the process
Unfathomably based.

>>107142158 (OP)
Fuck UNIX and fuck C. https://rentry.co/g7aofwhc

>>107147286
It was better you just don't have worthwhile opinions

>>107147491
This is shit and I'm dumber for reading it. Kys

>>107147491
>Translation: I suck at writing code in C
Stupid tranny faggot detected.

>>107147557
>>107147573
unix is well know to have not been actually designed at all, and it was already backwards in the 70s
you guys are a fucking cult
>>107147617
i am good at writing c and still think is crap

>>107147639
>i am good at writing c
Show repo

>>107147617
I'm better C coder that you. My deflate implementation is like 4 times faster than zlib.

>>107147648
>My deflate implementation is like 4 times faster than zlib.
Yeah fucking right. As if someone who bitches about C could ever write a proper deflate implementation. Better yet, I'll give you a challenge. Write an entire operating system kernel in rust or zig. I bet you'll never make it past 3 lines without needing to refactor everything 40 times because your "memory safe" compiler told you to.

>>107147491
>just start computers all over, bro
K

>>107147709
How did we end up with all of these useless retards that do nothing but demand that every piece of legacy code changes?

>>107147647
not gonna show myself
>>107147697
man, can you even read, the rentry he posted was about how rust and zig were also shit bc they dont break with the technical debt of c and posix, just build on/around it
you are arguing with imaginary enemies on your head, that funnily enough have a position closer to you than what we are arguing

>>107147697
I don't think Rust or Zig are good languages, chud.

>But that’s a false dichotomy — neither of those languages solves the philosophical rot that started with UNIX and C. They both inherited modernized symptoms of the same disease.
I am working on a concept for a programming language based on capabilities. By using a capability set attached to the type, we can ensure safety and provide authority control without lifetimes annotations or a pervasive borrow checker

>>107147781
Ok, but can it compile doom?

>>107147781
are you also the author of the rentry?
it is interesting where can i see more

>>107147781
Seriously though. You're position is: C is shit because it's not as good as a language that I'm daydreaming of making someday.

This is how C won, and will never be beaten. They just built something that works, and it works everywhere. Even if it has a wart or two, it exists, and it's simple and small, so you can make a computer do literally anything with it. No daydreaming needed.

what was the closest we got to a non windows non posix mainstream OS?
tron?

>>107148058
beos/haiku?

>>107147918
are you also the author of the rentry?
Yes.

>it is interesting where can i see more

>>107148184
but like is there any site i can follow it? i like to add to my rss random interesting projects
i guess no

>>107148196
No, but if you like these concepts, you can look into Vale and Austral.
https://vale.dev
https://austral-lang.org

>>107146380
>gets a break from the wife
>revolutionizes computing
foids eternally btfo'd.

>>107147491
>let's just hide the hardware more and that'll fix everything!
you are everything what is wrong with modern computing
bonus:
>compatibility? what?

>>107148184
>WE NEED MORE TYPES
you can't be serious

>>107146855
JavaScript used to be really fucking bad. It's a lot better now, but still used way more than it should.

>>107147491
>AI slop

who the hell are these jokers

>>107149175
Famous tiktokers. You wouldn't understand.

>>107142358
>Do what?
>Pascal was better.
>>107142949
>>107144385
>>107147286
>c is awful, and i program in it
>unix was not better, like at all, itsreal benefit and the reason why it got where it got is that it was easier to port and spread for free, not technical m
>>107147781
>I don't think Rust or Zig are good languages, chud.

Based, all based.

Face it, UNIX sucks, as does C. However, despite its problems and shortcomings, they got used to create (or run) awesome stuff.

>>107147781
>who owns this value
capitalism
>who is allowed to do what with this value
fascism

>>107142327
WHERE?!
BRING THEM TO ME

>>107142158 (OP)
they just didn't give a fuck

>>107142949
>107142949>>107144385 >>107149285
exactly the kind of AI slop I would expect from an unfounded critique of C.
Jacquard's loom predates the mathematician.

>>107147781
what does any of this really even mean? why are so many of you faggots like this? does everything need to be put in terms of some weird model/paradigm/ideology?
I've never once thought about "ownership" when programming. its a spook, this is all nonsense.
socialist-coded gobbledygook. all about planning and safety and policing the productive.
>authority
not just basing your idea around authority, but missing its clear connection to "restriction". what's authority do other than permit what it restricts? its just plain nutty.
you ever just sit down and write routines that do things on your computer? are you even capable of that? could you do it if I let you write a pamphlet about it first?
maybe you guys are just in the wrong hobby. just become a bureaucrat.

>>107142319
>Today, app engineers and artisan programmers only understand how their frameworks work.
you wish lmao
They merely understand how to type chatgpt into the browser.

>>107142158 (OP)
You see, back then you didn't have the internet, let alone AI. If you wanted something from your computer, you had to actually sit down and literally learn coding from the ground up, means you had to know your CPU and the custom chips inside out together with all the concepts of computer science so that you could actually write your own kernel, filesystem, drivers and toolset to do anything with that computer.

>>107149285
If Unix sucks so much, why do all modern operating systems, Linux, MacOS, and conceptually even Windows derive from it?

>>107144331
>No not really
the pdp7 was US$72,000 in 1965. maybe a quarter of that price 10 years later? (according to wiki's inflation figure: $718k in today's money). and then there's all the storage devices, teleprinter and shit.. big money. so.. yeah, anon is kinda right. this wasn't some poorfag operation that fucking faggots make it out to be.

>>107146500
reminder that JS was intentionally enshittified since the very beginning for better interoperability with Java.
Which is why it was named JAVA-script in the first place.
Java is the reason that JS has `null` even though JS already has `undefined`.

>>107151362
unix was something hacked together in three weeks in its spare tiem to play a videogame in a pdp7 that was free to use overtime
given how shitty and basic it was, it was also easy to port to the myriad of architectures back then. that is the only real benefit of unix, it is easy to port in a time were hardware was a clusterfuck of different options
in modern times it wouldnt have won, bc we "only" have 2 relevant isas nowadays
unixlike and c is a brutal technical debt
every sector has modernized and left behind old conventions but tech is always taking those weird roots as the ten commandments

Why some fags crying at Unix and C chads?

>>107148184
This just sounds like SELinux, but baked in from the compiler. SELinux is hardly used outside of phones because foisting the responsibility of defining every resource access ever onto programmers and systems administrators makes your software either unusable (outside of controlled ecosystems like phones), or insecure because people are lazy and just grant everything. Is this somehow different?

>>107147491
>Replace int fd with opaque handles (strong typing).
So, like handles in windows?

>>107154001
*HANDLE

>>107154001
>>107154020
windows kernel is more advanced than any posix system, now most of the rest of it is just plain awful...