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Thread 17779066

51 posts 14 images /his/
Anonymous No.17779066 [Report] >>17779093 >>17779104 >>17779110 >>17779120 >>17779127 >>17779176 >>17779528 >>17779630 >>17779698 >>17780057 >>17780127 >>17780159 >>17780329 >>17780664 >>17780861 >>17781058 >>17781521 >>17781757 >>17782521
>Islam created a period of development in science, arts, technology, culture, hygiene...
This sounds like bullshit. Was it, /his/?
Anonymous No.17779093 [Report] >>17779528 >>17780057 >>17780861
>>17779066 (OP)
It did, in the same manner that Christianity created a period of development in science, arts and culture that we now call the Renaissance.
Anonymous No.17779104 [Report] >>17779144
>>17779066 (OP)
>Arab barbarians take over huge swathes of territory
>Persian intellectuals, who study greek philosophy and mathmatics, are part of their conquered people
>these people make breakthroughs
Thats it. Thats the islamic golden age. Arabs are the worse part and are just violent thugs. Even Saladin wasnt an Arab lol.
Anonymous No.17779110 [Report] >>17779167 >>17779516 >>17781634
>>17779066 (OP)
Europe prior to 16th century was a primitive backwater whereas the middle east was a cradle of human civilization. Why is it hard to believe that the descendants of those people would continue to make great advancements?
Anonymous No.17779120 [Report] >>17779216 >>17779642
>>17779066 (OP)
Look up what the Mutazila were. Look up what al-Mamun did to the traditionalists. Ask fucking grok or chatgpt or whatever bullshit tech is hip and cool these days.
No muslim alive today would ever accept a Mutazelite was or is a muslim.
Yet they appropriate whatever smarty pant scientific shit the Mutazila wrote.
The fact of the matter is that islam kills the intellect.
Anonymous No.17779127 [Report] >>17779516
>>17779066 (OP)
Cordoba was the wealthiest and largest city in Europe for centuries. Then the Turks came and make Constantinople great again. Euroids meanwhile had no indoor plumbing and killed off an entire continent because of how filthy those disgusting savages were
Anonymous No.17779144 [Report] >>17779216 >>17779516
>>17779104
This is why its called the ISLAMIC GOLDEN AGE AND NOT THE ARABIC GOLDEN AGE RETARDED FAGGOT
God i want to genocided retards cucks like you
Also Saladin was probably mixed with arab
He wasnt a full kurd
>also muh persians when they barely had any intellectuals before islam
Anonymous No.17779167 [Report] >>17779663
>>17779110
Europe was ahead in every metric by the high middle ages.
Anonymous No.17779176 [Report]
>>17779066 (OP)
its not like alhambra just built itself
Anonymous No.17779216 [Report] >>17779227
>>17779144
>ISLAMIC GOLDEN AGE
see >>17779120
RETARDED FAGGOT
Anonymous No.17779227 [Report]
>>17779216
Thats not you argument retarded cuck
You talked about ethnicities like a retard when it wasnt the subject
Not religious denominations
Anonymous No.17779250 [Report] >>17779516
Islam was stable and it was a slightly more secular age
Anonymous No.17779516 [Report]
>>17779144
>>17779110
>>17779127
>>17779250
Lold at /his/ invasion of goatfuckers.
Muslim contribution for any development after their invasion is zero. ZERO.
Everything was created after getting rid of them.
Anonymous No.17779528 [Report]
>>17779066 (OP)
yes
>>17779093
You mean the Renaissance when people looked towards the pagan civilizations of old and not the christjew worship around them?
Anonymous No.17779630 [Report]
>>17779066 (OP)
Their was a temporary boom in all kinds of advancements, not because of Islam but simply because a large continent spanning empire that governed over dense urbanized area such as in the Nile and the fertile crescent that are very easily taxable now was able to established institutions for science and knowledge. They also took advantage of alot of what was left behind by the Roman's and the Sassanids, like the roads and aquaducts and put money into maintaining them, this inturn made trade better and easier for travelers and encouraged growth in population and wealth of cities. All sorts of things just improved just because of the stability the caliphate provided, none of this has anything to do with the contents of islam however.
Anonymous No.17779642 [Report]
>>17779120
>sunni islam kills the intellect
Ftfy
Anonymous No.17779663 [Report] >>17779738
>>17779167
>asserts claim
>doesnt defend it
Hmm
Anonymous No.17779698 [Report] >>17779700
>>17779066 (OP)
Rise of Islam did introduce a Golden Age and expanded the realms of mathematics and astronomy. There was also a stream of ideas flowing from India such as negative numbers etc.
Iranic invasion into Mesopotamia is what set the region's technology in a stasis. They introduced new forms of totalitarianism to the region with their satrapy system. Everything that made them a "civilization" was made from the bones of Mesopotamians and this over reliance combined with the totalitarianism saw the gradual undermining of the intellectual class.
Anonymous No.17779700 [Report] >>17779719 >>17779745
>>17779698
Nothing of what you said is true.
Anonymous No.17779719 [Report]
>>17779700
Well I know Iranics don't like confronting the ignorance and ignoble origin of their ancestors but these are the facts. Persophile historians in the West love to sweeten things up by pointing out how totalitarian Mesopotamians were (using fictional Abrahamic writing) but it is the truth.
I guess Iranics spread metallurgy from the Caucasus to Mesopotamia? That's the only thing I can give them credit for.
Anonymous No.17779738 [Report]
>>17779663
It's ipso facto. He didn't have to.
Anonymous No.17779745 [Report] >>17779778 >>17779790
>>17779700
This. He's insane.
Anonymous No.17779778 [Report]
>>17779745
It's refreshing to see someone tackle the mountain of nonsense that iranics and their Islamophobic sympathizers have piled up on Wikipedia. Huge respect to them, but I never figured out how to use wikipedia, otherwise I'd help him out. I imagine HistoryofIran is giving him a very hard time.
None the less
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventions_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world
Read 'em and weep.
t. White former Christian
Anonymous No.17779790 [Report]
Is there a list of inventions and innovations that is not a gish gallop spam a la Jagged 85 >>17779745 and pop history? For example you often hear Muslims invented something then discover it was invented a lot earlier, like distillation. What did they actually discover specifically? A new improved method of distillation?
Anonymous No.17780057 [Report] >>17780079
>>17779066 (OP)
Yes there was an increase in science and arts during the Early Middle Ages in the Caliphate, but this was due to Arabs having an Empire that stretched from Western Europe all the way to the east in Central Asia. Kind of like how there was a renaissance in trade and science after the Mongol Conquests.

The term "Islamic" refers more so to the political entity of the Arab Caliphate, rather than the religion itself. I also want to point out, many of these great thinkers of this era either had very unorthodox beliefs on Islam or were straight up hostile to organized religion.
>>17779093
The European Renaissance is filled with Greco-Roman Pagan art and culture, in fact a big part of the reason why the Protestant Reformation took off was cause some thought that the Catholic Church was deviating away from Christian teachings.
Anonymous No.17780079 [Report] >>17780154
>>17780057
>The European Renaissance is filled with Greco-Roman Pagan art and culture
And so was the Islamic Golden Age, they were eating up Greek philosophy and literature endlessly. And yet this fact does not disuade anyone from calling it the "Islamic" Golden Age, because, as you state, the term has more to do with the political entity that allowed and facilitated this production of culture to occur, exactly the same could be said of Christianity and the Renaissance, all of those painters, writers, sculptors and architects who made the Renassaince were on the payroll of the Catholic Church.

The reasons that lead us to refer to the Islamic Golden Age as such justify just as well that we should call the Renaissance the Christian Golden Age.
Anonymous No.17780127 [Report] >>17780655
>>17779066 (OP)
Its true. In the year 1100, all the largest cities in europe, sans Constantinople, were in Andalusia. And no other period saw iberia as a exporter of intellectual output and innovation.

Castile didnt even have a proper capital until the 16th century.
Anonymous No.17780154 [Report] >>17780177
>>17780079.
>The reasons that lead us to refer to the Islamic Golden Age as such justify just as well that we should call the Renaissance the Christian Golden Age.
I don't want to stay in this thread much longer, but here's the issue with that statement. Islam has always been a political and social entity since the very origins of the faith. There was never a secular/religious divide in Islam. Meanwhile Christian Europe always had some division between secular/religious, even if Christianity in the past was much more linked with politics back in the day. I get what you are saying and yeah the Catholic Church funded so many of those Renaissance arts. But European cultures are ancient and they always had an identity that extended past the Christian religion.
Solitaire No.17780159 [Report]
>>17779066 (OP)
The newfound "peace" in the Middle East created by Islam created conditions in which the Romans and Persians within the Caliphate could pursue scientific endeavors previously impeded by the constant and brutal wars previously occupying the polities thereof.
Anonymous No.17780177 [Report]
>>17780154
>Islam has always been a political and social entity since the very origins of the faith
So has Christianity? It's teachings have very clear political implications, it's only in very recent centuries that a separation between the religious and the political has been drawn, and even then this separation it's kind of a farce, since religious members of society have always influenced the political sphere. There has never been a point in time at which politics was completely irreligious.
>But European cultures are ancient and they always had an identity that extended past the Christian religion.
This is only true of some European countries, at those are the ones that already existed prior to the advent of Christianity such as Greece or Italy, but countries like France, Spain, England, the Netherlands or Portugal did not exist prior to Christianity and their cultural idenity is directly linked to Christianity, that's why there is no such than as French mythology or a Spanish pantheon of gods like there is Greek mythology or a Roman pantheon. Countries like Ireland did have a pre-Christian pagan identity, but that disappeared so long ago and so little remained that its cultural idetity has been Christian for over a millennia, England is one of the first countries that accepted Christianity and it did so in earnest, same with Russia.

My point being is that your argument is only true of SOME European countries, in others their cultural identity is directly tied to Christianity and for others, it's been Christian for so long and they left their pagan past behind so long ago that it's hard to say that they even existed prior to Christianity.
Anonymous No.17780247 [Report]
Medieval European poetry and song was influenced a lot by the Muslim world via the troubadours. Instruments, tunes, poetic styles and tropes—not because of any kind of big love-in but as a result of cultures clashing together, especially on the Iberian peninsula. See Denis de Rougemont’s Live in the Western World.
Anonymous No.17780329 [Report]
>>17779066 (OP)

If you unify a dozen countries, and are the way point between east and west, you're going see a natural increase in consolidation of knowledge and expertise that can be put to use.
Anonymous No.17780655 [Report]
>>17780127
>Castile didnt even have a proper capital until the 16th century.
Having a capital city is overrated. The capital always was where the royal court was.
Anonymous No.17780664 [Report]
>>17779066 (OP)
The Islamic Golden Age is a myth invented by libtards.
Anonymous No.17780861 [Report] >>17781910
>>17779066 (OP)
>>17779093
Christianity brought about a dark age of repression in Europe and it wasn't until the Renaissance that wealthy individuals were able to fund advances in science and technology.
Anonymous No.17781058 [Report]
>>17779066 (OP)
They mostly just benefitted from the collapse of the Byzantine empire and translated some of their books
Anonymous No.17781517 [Report] >>17781652
All the intellectual heavy lifting was done by Iranians, not arabs.

Arab numbers? Iranians
Algebra? Iranians
Taj Mahal? Iranian architect.
Arab calender? lol, made by Iranians
Anonymous No.17781521 [Report] >>17781652
>>17779066 (OP)
All the intellectual heavy lifting was done by Iranians, not arabs.

Arab numbers? Iranians
Algebra? Iranians
Taj Mahal? Iranian architect.
Arab calender? lol, made by Iranians
Anonymous No.17781634 [Report]
>>17779110
>American education moment
Anonymous No.17781652 [Report]
>>17781521
>>17781517
>Arab numbers?
Indian
>Algebra?
Greeks
>Taj Mehal?
Literally nobody cares
>Arab Calendar?
A lunar calendar (basically useless, years are determined by the sun, not the moon, Mohamed) based on a start date that again literally nobody cares about.
Anonymous No.17781658 [Report]
Religion begets submission, not progress. Any scientific or technological discovery is first and foremost subjected to trial by faith. Any progress is in spite of mysticism.
Anonymous No.17781675 [Report] >>17781681
It existed but only during the early middle ages

The normgroid understanding of medieval history starts with the crusades (end of islamic golden age due to abbasid collapse and the end of european dark ages) and the late middle ages where europe was starting to surpass the middle in terms of economic social and military matters
Anonymous No.17781681 [Report] >>17781705
>>17781675
Europe was already ahead by the high middle ages.
By the end of the middle ages the shittle east was so far behind the Ottomans had to dedicate every single resource in their empire towards waging war to keep up and it wasnt enough.
Anonymous No.17781705 [Report] >>17781724
>>17781681
Europeans had to form coalitions because of how badly Ottomans were singlehandedly raping them and still lost. The so-called Great Divergence happened in the 18th century
Anonymous No.17781724 [Report] >>17781744
>>17781705
Yes and now compare the size of those European states (mind you, still highly decentralized at that point) with the Ottomans.
Anonymous No.17781744 [Report] >>17781763
>>17781724
The size was roughly similar, but Ottomans were superior because Europeans were unable to raise large armies
Anonymous No.17781757 [Report]
>>17779066 (OP)
All people have been civilized by God's laws and wisdom.
Anonymous No.17781763 [Report]
>>17781744
>The size was roughly similar
Oh come on.
Also Rumelia was the Ottomans richest province until they ruined it. And the Balkans werent even Europes richest area before the conquest.
Anonymous No.17781910 [Report]
>>17780861
arguably the barbarism got worse when the renaissance revived science and technology
Anonymous No.17782521 [Report]
>>17779066 (OP)
Missing context that those places were ultra shit before. Debunked libtard talking point!
Anonymous No.17782532 [Report]
the "Islamic" Golden Age was a consequence of Persian thinkers being allowed access to ancient Greek philosophy and scientific literature. Islam had nothing to do with it except being the driving force of the empire that combined those two prerequisites. If either the Byzantines or Sassanids had ever conclusively won a war and subjugated the other, it would have happened then too