Thread 17851148

How fucked up Spanish, Shitalians and Austrians could had been

Catholic France literally sided with the Protestants during the Thirty Years' War and then Napoleon killed the pope, what the fuck are you talking about

>>17851157
Yes but they were still enemies of England and others protestants too, that might not have been the case in this scenario

>>17851168
It would absolutely still be the case

>>17851168
My guy protestant vs catholic actually mattered in diplomacy for half a century before it just became a convient excuse for if you were going to invade them anyway

>>17851148 (OP)
>What if France had been Protestan
I would have a girlfriend.

>>17851148 (OP)
There would be less people in the Netherlands and Northern Germany with French names like de Fontaine

Portestant France would have sepukued itself earlier and become irrelevant by the 1770's instead of the 1870's

>>17851148 (OP)
Not under my wQtch
>>17851248
Not really. One can argue that the expulsion of the huguenots who were generally talented people was one of the reasons of the decline of France post Louis XIV.

>>17851148 (OP)
They would have fought their political enemies regardless of what Christian denomination they were.

>>17851148 (OP)
France is the reason Protestantism wasn't crushed. France, their unholy alliance with the Turks, and betrayal of all things sacred.

>>17851148 (OP)
you know french protestants were mostly in the south of France right?

>>17851157
And if France were Protestants, they would have sided even more and earlier against the Catholics.

>>17851148 (OP)
>/his/ is finally coming out of the latinx closet and becoming a Spanish language board
what took yall so long?

>>17851261
>huguenots who were generally talented people was one of the reasons of the decline of France post Louis XIV.
Nah protestantism is proto-liberalism and liberalism is the dead of nations. Huguenots would have done the globohomo republican coup earlier and destroy the very foundation of France

>>17851355
The only salavation for Europe was carlism and the communal traditionalist corporativist goverment. Nation estates, radical jabonism and laissez faire and the destruction of counterweights to the state just destroys nations until the point of no recovery
https://youtu.be/tgfheniVm_s?si=C06VpXyLlUGTX7tU

>>17851148 (OP)
Religion never got in the way of frog réalpolitique
They allied protestants or even the turks whenever it was convenient. Maybe if they went protestant it would've turned around and convenience would've led to an alliance with Spain or Austria. It never mattered

>>17851148 (OP)
Birth rates doesn't collapse in the 18th century because the people telling the french to breed arent seen as corrupt exploitative assholes and France dominates europe to this day

>>17851382
>more secularism and liberalism would improve birthrates
Holy fucking shit, the delulu

>>17851429
>protestantism is secular
based retard

>>17851463
Yes the path of jacobinism started with the destruction of the church and its nationalization by proddies. You have to be a retard to not see it

>>17851148 (OP)
It would've been the greatest country on Earth, rather than England

>>17851621
Yes because England's 80 year empire is worth full ethnic replacement and complete permanent decadence lel

>>17851635
France has the largest populations of blacks, Muslims, Jews and Chinese in Europe, as well as more gypsies than any country other than Romania. It is also inhabited by tens-of-millions of fr*Nch 'people'

>>17851813
France is also a fucking shithole due liberalism, protestantism is mental rot that created liberalism that is double garbage

>>17851519
And now the birthrates of France is better than all the countries that remained catholic. God truly works in mysterious ways.

>>17851962
Thank you for proving my point!
1-0 to England :)

>>17852014
England is more of a shithole than France
>>17851965
Those are just muslims and negroes

>>17851148 (OP)
Southern French (IE Gascons) whom are swarthier were largely the Calvinists, while Lorraine and the more Germanic Northeast were Catholics. Similar to Germany, the protestant wave was tied to regional desires for seperation/autonomy.

>>17853795
Listen I don’t give a fuck about history, religion, or any of that shit. I made this thread to call out my racial enemies, chud.

>>17853803
Do it right shitter, this fits the 30 years war far better.

>>17853795
>North east France

That was still Spanish controlled in the late 1500's and most of the protestants were driven out of Flanders and Wallonia by blood thirsty papists

>>17853840
Both Phillip the II and Phillip the III offered full Dutch independence in exchange of the Dutch respecting Dutch catholics. Oranjists refused this proposal

>>17853865
I don't believe that at all.

>>17853879
Just look it up you fucking moron. During the 12 year truce the Oranjists had murder Johan van Oldenbarnevelt to pursue their lunatic fanatic foreign policy. Phillip the III offered full independence with the condition of respecting the catholics in the north.
It is hilarious how fucking dumb people in this board are

>>17851261
jorge, your people are nothing more than genetic cannon fodder for whichever french or german royal lords over you.

unless you're asking anons about which entrenched position you should throw yourself - and your fellow compatriots from villadad de royal - please keep quiet

>>17853987
Philip II and Charles V were unironically less Germanic than me (I'm mostly Flemish.)

>>17854004
And most of the bourbons even French ones were also less French than I am.

>>17853953
That's not what the 12 year truce said at all. The wording of it was that during the 12 year truce the dutch would be treated as if they were independent and allowed to do as they please. Also Oldenbarnvelt was excited because Holland essentially declared itself independent from the rest of the dutch

>>17854013
*executed

>>17854014
>>17854013
>>17853953
>The truce did not alleviate the situation of Catholics in the Republic, or that of Protestants in the Habsburg Netherlands. Although they were not actively persecuted, they could not profess their religion in public and remained excluded from public

>>17851148 (OP)
Probably wouldn't change anything because France already allied itself with the Muslim Ottomans, Protestants Swedes, and with the plurireligious Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth

>>17854004
again, jorge, we are not discussing how you can best sacrifice your life to save the inherited properties of a dynasty with roots in switzerland or northern france

>>17854028
We wuz kangz of Spainz or something
Every nordcuck qrgumemt devolve into we wuzism. Fabulous.

>>17854013
No Phillip offered full independence after the truce if they accepted the condition of respecting catholics which they didn't accept previously. All of this is documented, just open a history book

>>17854013
>Oldenbarnvelt was excited because Holland essentially declared itself independent from the rest of the dutch
No he got executed in a criminal fashion because the Oranjists wanted to ignite a war and commit a catholic genocide.
Oldenbarnvelt was just a sane person that got executed for "treason" in a phony trial which destroyed the peaceful independence that the republic was going to get once freedom of religion for catholics was approved

>>17854061
All of this is documented in letters from the Simancas archive in Spain. Phillip the III and Oldenbarnvelt sane solution would be replaced by Oranjist fanatism and Olivares providencialist retardness.
The fact that a peaceful resolution was so close is usually ignore by literal propagandists from both sides

>>17854037
>acknowledging the swiss origins of the hapsburgs makes you a nordicist
Think you might have consumed some rotten field rations as you waited in the pouring rain to storm an entrenched enemy position to save the (french) bourbons properties, jorge

>>17854081
The Habsburgs that ruled Europe were 5/8 iberian, 2/8 french and 1/8 German and even in the Austrian court the language spoken were latin and Spanish . The fact that the surname has a swiss origin is literally irrelevant. Culturally they were more Spanish and even French than German, and the Habsburgs in Austria would only Germanize after the Spanish war of succession

>>17854052
No they didn't, Especially as the Truce was extremely unpopular in Spain itself

>>17854061
>>17854079
Again this is a fantasy you made up

>>17854105
Yes it is CODEIN for free. I found it in this book.

>>17854107
Nope you moronic retard, it is in literally all the latest books from the period. I put the source

>>17854111
>>17854110

No the Spanish never offered that because that would've been a humiliation for them, one that would've been worse than the actual treaty that was signed

>>17854114
You literally don't know what you are talking about. Read what I posted

>>17854081
You're not simply claiming that they were of Swiss origins, you claimed that the Habsburgs and Bourbon of Spain weren't Spanish whatsoever and that they were fully German or French. Yes that makes you a we wuzer
>>17854091
True

>>17854114
Philip III and Lerma wanted to end the war because they saw there was little point in it, so this is actually coherent with their policy.

>>17854124
>>17854130
Except that literally never happened. And not only that but in the actual 12 years truce any one returning to the southern Netherlands had to convert to papism. And this claim that van Oldenbarnvelt was killed so people could commit a papalcaust is so retarded I'm not going to acknowledge it any longer

>>17853840
Flanders was protestant but it never caught as much traction in Wallonia. Afterall in the 80 years war they were the first to defect back to Parma. The House of Guise's powerbase was Lorraine, and extended into the non-spanish areas of Picardy, Champagne, Normandy.

>>17854673
Yeah it was mainly tournai and the haunault

>>17851157
>Catholic France literally sided with the Protestants during the Thirty Years' War
Ottofags and muzzle

>>17854692
>>17854673
But the icon smashing started in a town that's today in France. But I think it was part of Flanders at the time

>>17854630
>That never happened because huh I decided so
The house of Orange being these wholesome religious tolerant rebels fighting against an oppressive bigoted empire is just the kaaskop national narrative, much like the nonsense about the duke of Alba and Philip II. They were as bigoted as everyone at the time, of course they were going to oppress the Catholics.
>>17854673
>Normandy
Normandy was fairly protestant

>>17854720
There were some Protestant enclaves in Normandy such as Rouen and Caen, but largely they aligned with with the Guises.

>>17854720
Your only source is a Spanish archive/book that you didnt link too. The reality on the ground is that while the truce benefit the Spanish so they could deal with internal issues and whatnot they never offered full independence. Especially as Phillip the third wasn't involved in the negoation. Phillp the 3rd very famously let others do the negoations for him throughout most of his reign

>>17854820
>Phillp the 3rd very famously let others do the negoations for him throughout most of his reign
Yes, but Lerma also held the view that the war in the netherlands was becoming pointless and he wanted to end it.
It was the duo Olivares/Philip IV who reignited it because Olivares was a short sighted retard.

>>17854827
Lerma was a corrupt priest with antiqued views and policies. He only turned against total victory in the Netherlands because the state went bankrupt and couldn't steal money as easily

>>17851308
Probably not, none of the prods cared about Germany much, France only did to fuck over the emperor.

>>17854091
>>17854129
The one time the resident iberijeet autists aren't haplojeets is when it comes to the patrilineage of the dynasties that ruled them kek

>>17854905
>Lerma was a corrupt priest with antiqued views and policies
He was corrupt (but so was Richelieu and many others) but the way he handled the situation is the best one, he's also behind the expulsion of the moriscos.
>the state went bankrupt
the war is the reason for bankruptcy in the first place

>>17855571
Dude his attitude completely shifted after 1604 when they realized the state was out of money. And him getting rid of the moriscos fucked over Valencia and other places for generations for very short term financial gain

>>17855586
>And him getting rid of the moriscos fucked over Valencia and other places for generations for very short term financial gain
wholesome chungus you're getting my upvote for this brave take sis.

>>17855713
Yeah expelling thousands of people from a region tends to destabilize it

>>17851148 (OP)
We would probably be something like greather Netherlands. Not great, but still better than modern day Fr*nce.

>>17856178
>LODEWIJK DE ZESTIENDE DOOD
>WAT NOO?

>>17856178
Why greater Netherlands

>>17851148 (OP)

If it were Protestant, it would've collapsed almost immediately.

>>17856669
Dutch are the original Franks and Huguenots were Calvinists like them

>>17859033
Didn't the franks come from modern day Belgium