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39 posts 36 images /his/
Anonymous No.17892022 [Report] >>17892029 >>17892888 >>17892935 >>17893118 >>17893184 >>17894240 >>17894368 >>17894521 >>17895156 >>17895413 >>17895419
The Lost Roman Fleet in the Amazon
Some historians speculate that a lost Roman fleet, blown off course in 1 AD, reached the Amazon. Evidence includes Roman-style pottery fragments found near the river and accounts of "light-skinned tribes" in early European explorers' logs. Could a shipwrecked legion have influenced indigenous cultures?
Anonymous No.17892029 [Report]
>>17892022 (OP)
>smuggle artifacts from europe
>plant them in brasil
>"find" them
>profit
Anonymous No.17892293 [Report] >>17893114 >>17894648
King of an unbelievable theory but I understand it
However according to Portuguese accounts, Native Brazilians were dark-skinned, they didn't find any light-skinned tribes
Anonymous No.17892866 [Report] >>17894652
Accounts of "x-skinned" "y-coloured eyes" "z-coloured hair" should be banned from all discussions of speculative history because they are relative/contrived 100% of the time and nowhere near as compelling or interesting as any of the out of place artifacts or linguistic/cultural similarities that actually do come up.
Anonymous No.17892888 [Report]
>>17892022 (OP)
You reckon the great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandchildren of stranded Roman sailors are still going to be light skinned after a thousand years?
Anonymous No.17892935 [Report] >>17894668
>>17892022 (OP)
These are confirmed forgeries btw.
Anonymous No.17893114 [Report]
>>17892293
Light skinned tribes were found in North America
Anonymous No.17893118 [Report] >>17893128
>>17892022 (OP)
>Roman ships make a voyage across the Atlantic without their entire crew dying from starvation or the ships capsizing at any point
Depends on how likely this is. Did the Romans even have ships capable of venturing beyond the Mediterranean?
Anonymous No.17893128 [Report] >>17893145
>>17893118
This might shock you but they had the European Atlantic coast and ran ships along there even for domestic purposes.
Anonymous No.17893145 [Report]
>>17893128
>coastal shipping =/= weeks-long journey in the open ocean
Retard
Anonymous No.17893184 [Report] >>17894254 >>17894636
>>17892022 (OP)
Is it possible for a ship with a dead crew to drift from Africa to SA?
Anonymous No.17894240 [Report] >>17894243 >>17894645
>>17892022 (OP)
>a shipwrecked legion

Individual ships or a handful of Roman ships getting blown across the Atlantic is possible but the loss of an entire legion would have been noted (and most would have sunk in the storm).

As for their survival, it's also not impossible but a handful of Romans in Brazil would have quickly been absorbed into the Indian population.
Anonymous No.17894243 [Report]
>>17894240
Anonymous No.17894254 [Report]
>>17893184
It happened recently, a couple of years ago. Huehues found a boat with dead africans, that must have lost their to the Canary Islands and starved in the Atlantic
Anonymous No.17894256 [Report] >>17894642
Most tribes were DARKSKIN

They were BLACK.
Anonymous No.17894368 [Report]
>>17892022 (OP)
First of all, a legion is fucking massive. 20k+ men and followers, it'd be a massive material investment to send to their deaths and unlikely to casually be lost. There's no evidence in the bay to suggest more than one vessel was present. Even the largest roman ships would only have a crew of a few hundred, as opposed to countless natives. Assuming they ALL survive (unlikely, given the trip) AND the natives don't kill them, they'd still be assimilated within that generation and would likely leave no notable genetic legacy over thousands of years and no linguistic or material traces as they integrate into local culture.
Anonymous No.17894521 [Report]
>>17892022 (OP)
Guanabara bay is half a continent away from the Amazon River you fucking retard
Anonymous No.17894636 [Report] >>17894828 >>17894848 >>17895497
>>17893184
yes
t. schizo

you cannot convince me this isn't tyrone bullying a mexican
Anonymous No.17894642 [Report] >>17894828 >>17894848 >>17895497
>>17894256
das rite
Anonymous No.17894645 [Report] >>17895127
>>17894240
>As for their survival, it's also not impossible
Currents + innate speed of roman era ships means the travel time is too high, they'd all starve midway through the trip.
Anonymous No.17894648 [Report]
>>17892293
What the fuck are you smoking
Early Portuguese texts about Brazil are full of tales about lighter skinned natives
Anonymous No.17894652 [Report]
>>17892866
I don't think they should be banned but it is a shame how the conversations get muddied quickly, and that people hyper fixate on the genetics and stuff. Some artifacts are just as interesting but in general I think they're related and should be talked about as such.

And in general people are way too stupid to talking about the linguistic/cultural aspects lol. That's like phd level stuff, where even people with phds start scratching their heads because it's too heavy.
Anonymous No.17894660 [Report]
Anonymous No.17894668 [Report]
>>17892935
Correct, this is a well known hoax, why are people even wasting time discussing this
Anonymous No.17894670 [Report]
Anonymous No.17894677 [Report] >>17894828 >>17894848 >>17895497
Anonymous No.17894828 [Report]
>>17894636
>>17894642
>>17894677
The Spaniards recorded quite extensively that the men of Mesoamerican cultures covered their bodies in black paint for a variety of contexts, chiefly warriors in battle and priests during rituals, which is what your pictures very clearly depict.

You could answers very easily if you actually bothered to read about the cultures you're talking about instead of staring at contextless iconography and drawing your own conclusions from nothing but what you can eyeball.
Anonymous No.17894848 [Report] >>17895094 >>17895097 >>17895102
>>17894636
>>17894642
>>17894677
The Spaniards recorded quite extensively that the men of Mesoamerican cultures covered their bodies in black body paint in a variety of contexts, chiefly warriors in battle and priests during rituals, which is what your pictures very clearly depict.

If there were black people in late postclassic central Mexico, which is where two of those depictions are from, we would know without a shadow of a doubt. Remember, this is not some shadowy forgotten culture from millenia ago we know little about. It's a culture that was around throughout the early modern period whose every aspect down to their daily lives was meticulously recorded by their conquerors. And this at a time when iberians already had regular contact with black africans and liked to name places and people inhabited by peoples they judged to look african accordingly (e.g negritos in southeast asia and the island of New Guinea), in fact, there was one black african in Hernan Cortez' expedition. This all to say, no, there isn't even a faintest possibility of black people in 16th century Mexico being a thing and that is absolutely not what those pictures you posted depict. Go back in time to the Olmecs if you wanna look somewhat less retarded.

See, it's what gets me about your type. you could get actual answers very easily if you actually bothered to read about the cultures you're talking about instead of staring at contextless iconography and drawing your own conclusions from nothing but superficialities.
Anonymous No.17895094 [Report]
>>17894848
my head canon is that they only do this to remind themselves of the kangz of the past
it's like how spaniards do black face to remember the moors
Anonymous No.17895097 [Report] >>17895125
>>17894848
also I question the idea that we would know without a shadow of a doubt, when those images are reproductions based on millions(?) of burned books which was a massive erasure and then redrawing of history which prompts me to question the validity of the stories
Anonymous No.17895102 [Report] >>17895125
>>17894848
another thing is that blacks did reach islands in the pacific, acting like the americas was some unreachable destination just never made any sense to me
there are ideas of ancient whites reaching the pacific and south america long before columbus too
and the phenotype of central and south americans always perplexed me since they don't look exactly like as much like north american indians or asians as I'd imagine them to look. why the big difference? where did they get their big noses or colored hair among other unique traits?
I think south american history was a lot more interesting basically, going by a lot of stuff someone like you wouldn't care about lol
Anonymous No.17895125 [Report] >>17895147 >>17895147
>>17895097
We would know without a shadow of a doubt because the spaniards did not experience late postclassic Mesoamerica through books. They went there. They lived there. And of course, they conquered and saw it, and at no point do they mention populations of negros or indians who remember negros from the distant past.

As for book burning, the Spaniards burned books for religious reasons, not for any desire to actively erase history. Which is why they did record all local history they could, as did the native nobility they educated and taught to write. Unless you believe that 16th century Spaniards and indians alike were going out of their way to specifically erase negros from their history centuries before american culture turned black people into a global concern, you're making no sense.

>>17895102
>another thing is that blacks did reach islands in the pacific
They did not. Despite their superficial similarities to black africans, melanesians, papuans, negritos and australian aboriginals are less closely related to negros than they are to east asians.
>there are ideas of ancient whites reaching the pacific and south america long before columbus too
So? Those are also universally frowned upon by every specialist on the subject, and much like your theories, are based mostly around superficialities and general misconceptions about amerindians, with some roots in questionable Spanish accounts added in.
>and the phenotype of central and south americans always perplexed me since they don't look exactly like as much like north american indians or asians
They do though. I live here and I've seen them, so trust me i know more than you do. If anything, north american indians look less asian than them.

As for why, keep in mind that North America has populations who are descendants of more recent migrations from Siberia, as proven by genetic evidence (which, by the the way, does not at all support any idea of there being any negros in the americas before Columbus).
Anonymous No.17895127 [Report]
>>17894645

A Roman ship on the west coast of Africa that just loaded up with food and water for the planned return home, that then gets blow to the Americas by a hurricane is perfectly possible
Anonymous No.17895147 [Report] >>17895497
>>17895125
>We would know without a shadow of a doubt because the spaniards did not experience late postclassic Mesoamerica through books. They went there. They lived there. And of course, they conquered and saw it, and at no point do they mention populations of negros or indians who remember negros from the distant past.
addressed that
>As for book burning, the Spaniards burned books for religious reasons, not for any desire to actively erase history.
a fine story

>>17895125
>They did not. Despite their superficial similarities to black africans, melanesians, papuans, negritos and australian aboriginals are less closely related to negros than they are to east asians.
the point I was making is that they didn't sprout up from the ground.
>So? Those are also universally frowned upon by every specialist on the subject,
don't care, their stories make less sense and don't add up. often it's indigenous lore vs some ((specialist)) who couldn't care less about the truth.
>If anything, north american indians look less asian than them.
that's another interesting topic and we're only scratching on the diveristy in phenotypes of amerindians, but again it's a waste of time trying to talk to you about this.
>(which, by the the way, does not at all support any idea of there being any negros in the americas before Columbus).
there are over 100 million blacks in south america. the schizo idea is that some of these people had ancestors from before columbus. it's not in any way far fetched yet would mostly be impossible to prove looking at genetics until some serious AI evaluation is possible.
Anonymous No.17895156 [Report]
>>17892022 (OP)
>Amazon
>Guanabara Bay
You people are just retards who are terrible at geography
Anonymous No.17895413 [Report]
>>17892022 (OP)
wait...
Are young saying that some snow-n were able , by pure luck, in the 10th century, to travel to America....
....
.. but that the great Roman Empire who dominate all the navigation in Europe during centuries couldn't achieve the same ?

Don't you think that's odd ?
Anonymous No.17895419 [Report] >>17895473
>>17892022 (OP)
>light-skinned tribes
Romans were swarthy as fuck.

This theory reminds me to the theory of "lost Roman tribe in Asia that may have birth blondes in West China Turkic region" ignoring than the Scythians, Tocharyans and Turkics of the region were much more whiter than any Roman and Italic greaser fatfuck from Latium.
Anonymous No.17895473 [Report]
>>17895419
half of those guys are white
Anonymous No.17895497 [Report]
>>17895147
>addressed that
No you didn't.Again, it was the 16th century, iberians already had regular contact with black africans to the point at least one was part of Hernan Cortes' expedition and conquistadors brought black slaves everywhere they went. They knew what a black african was and they at no point mentioned them living anywhere in the Americas, unless again, you're implying that for whatever reason they deliberately omitted them.
>the point I was making is that they didn't sprout up from the ground.
They didn't sail to Oceania with canoes from Africa either. It was a gradual migratory proccess that took thousands of years, in which they mostly used now submerged land bridges, and even the polynesians, who actually were good at navigation didn't start getting close to the Americas until medieval times (and also thousands of years after they started their migrations).
>indigenous lore
Cherrypicked, out of context and warped "indigenous lore". Or more acutarely based on what you've been doing in this very thread, ignoring actual indigenous cultural and context in favor of sensationalist superficial interprerations. What kicked off this entire conversation was your claim that these pictures >>17894636 >>17894642 represent black africans when in reality no, they depict a well-documented Mesoamerican practice of using black body paint for certain rituals, while you use this >>17894677 picture to imply that there were both black people and white people in pre-columbian america, when in reality the skin tone of the figure in the middle is a neutral skin tone the maya use for themselves in other chichen itza murals (and even in aztec codices, like the ones you posted) while the two figures on either side are just painted priests.

Clearly, you are the one deliberately ignoring indigenous culture in favor of outdated quackery from a century ago. If you lack knowledge of such a basic aspect of Mesoamerican civilization, why should i take anything you say seriously?