Thread 17919643

Why is Hitler demonized, but Stalin and Mao aren't, despite killing much more people?

They are just seen as bad people, but not literally the devil himself like Hitler.

Mao and Stalin did it for the good of their peoples. Purging the landlords and kulaks elevated hundreds of millions out of crippling poverty and made their nations into 1st tier modern countries.
Hitler took an already modern country and nearly destroyed it while enriching the capitalist class at the expense of the people.

>>17919643 (OP)
>Ismail Enver Pasha
But he wasn't a dictator?

>>17919643 (OP)
Stalin and Mao killed people in their own country. Hitler went out of his way to make it other countries' problem.
That's the number one rule. I don't give a fuck if my neighboring country kills half of their population. Just don't make it other countries' problem.

>>17919647
>Russia
>1st tier modern country
Lol. Maybe the European part around Moscow and Petersburg.

>>17919670
dictator just meants bad guy nowadays, just like how tyrant before it until whenever it was that word fell out of fashion

>>17919688
You have to go back >>>>/k/ope

>>17919643 (OP)
Because the Cult of Personality is still strong in both Russia and China.

Yeah Stalin killed a lot of people, but the official Putin line is "...but he also helped beat the Nazis and he laid the foundation for another Imperial Russian Golden Age which is so much better than what we are now"

Similarly in China, Mao is the Founding Father of the modern nation so he was allowed to get away with all the crap he did (merely an error).

They're all pieces of shit, and that includes Hitler. Next question.

Stalin:
Stalinist purges effected only about 800k people, and not all of them were killed. Also took a dirt poor agrarian backwater and turned it into a super power. The fact also that butthurt eastern euros have to make up atrocities to try smear Stalin (Katyn, Holodomor) shows how much of a largely positive historical force he was. He was a vastly modernizing force across Eastern Europe and had to be smeared to death, because if people knew the truth, he would be seen as one of the greatest leaders of history and can't have a Communist be that.
Mao
>doubled China’s population from 542 million to 956 million
>doubled life expectancy
>doubled caloric intake
>quintupled GDP
>quadrupled literacy
>increased grain production three hundred percent
>increased gross industrial output forty-fold
>increased heavy industry ninety-fold.
>increased rail lineage 266 percent
>increased passenger train traffic from 102,970,000 passengers to 814,910,000.
>increased rail freight tonnage two thousand percent
>increased the road network one thousand percent.
>increased steel production from zero to thirty-five MMT/year
>Increased industry’s contribution to China’s net material product from twenty-three percent to fifty-four percent
>lowered death rate from 49:1000 to 10.8:1000 (India at the time had a death rate of 24.1:1000, GLF had a death rate of 25.4:1000 half of of that of pre-revolutonary china)
Also think with your brain, how in fuck are life indicators all improving massively, including life expectancy, if 1/3rd of the population are starving to death or being executed or whatever the fuck they claim?

>>17919643 (OP)
Hitler killed more than they did and your sources for them seem to come straight from capitalist propaganda.

>>17919643 (OP)
Hitler tried to resurrect somthing that the powers of hell can not abide. His mode was not aligned with the path, but close, and so that forerunner of the return ended his attempt without victory. But even in defeat, he left a light which the enemies of God continue trying to extinguish.

>>17919643 (OP)
>this stupid image again
Leopold's numbers are inflated. And where did they get the 17 million number for Hitler from? The Holocaust is 12 million, WW2 as a whole is 70-85 million.

>>17919705
Literaly One got denouced by his sucessor and nearly purged form history while the other has any official party stance that 30% of his decisions were bad.
Pretty far from personality cults if you ask me..
Has anyone actualy considered that maybe just maybe people actualy liked them? Or atleast not dislike them enough?

>>17919643 (OP)
>why
because leftism is a mental disorder

imagine claiming men get pregnant and girls have dicks

see??

>>17919869
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Left-Wing%22_Communism%3A_An_Infantile_Disorder
Communists get into so much drama they call each other children

>>17919869
You can be a transphobic socialist or a pro-trans capitalist too

>>17919643 (OP)
>Hitler
Mostly killed other races (particularly Jews, Poles and Russians) while trying to benefit his own race
>Stalin
Mostly killed his subordinates, political dissidents, and caused his population to starve. Also his brutality wasn't even that unusual for a Russian leader. Zelensky and Putin are killing dissidents right now and no one cares
>Mao
Didn't really kill anyone

Hitler is seen as the Devil by the groups he killed, it's that simple. If you don't want to buy into the anti-Hitler religion then just don't make caring about those groups your priority

>>17919643 (OP)
Half of these people and all of the worst offenders were Commies that killed their OWN people.....FAIL! Everyone else was fighting their enemy (i.e. other people), which makes a lot more sense, really.

Plus, the most atrocious are also somehow the most boring. Name one "interesting" thing about Mao, or Stalin, or Lenin, or Trotsky, or Pol Pot. For all they did in the world, they're just boring and uninteresting for the most part. They're already being lost to History to any one who is a Millenial, or younger. Meanwhile, one and only one of them, is increasing in popularity and understanding. Guess which one. No one feels bad about taking out the Commie. Lots of folks are now realizing we were not on the "right side of History" for nearly the entire 20th century.

Because the Jews control the media.

>but Stalin and Mao aren't
people demonize them all the time, seriously whats the point of retarded threads like these, and why do so many retards go along with ops claim

I don't know a ton about 20th century stuff so this could be wrong, but my perception is that Hitler went out of his way to kill millions of people in camps intentinally, wheras Stalin and Mao were "merely" dictators that occasionally ordered the execution and assassination of dissidents, maybe in the tens of thousands, wheras their millions of inflicted deaths were via neglect rather then active intent

>>17920225
This

>>17919643 (OP)
>slavs and chinks
>people

ngmi.

>>17919643 (OP)
>>17919647
>>17920225
>>17920702
American history schools teach the atrocities of communist regimes and emphasize the brutality of Stalin against his propagandized image during the early Cold War. I was taught about the famines caused by Mao during his "great leap forward" when I was in grade school.

This doesn't and won't rehabilitate Hitler btw.

>>17920781
*courses in

>>17920247
Wrong! The Commies invented Gulags and Mao caused the only famine in Chinese history not due to natural causes. He meant to kill tens of millions of his own, and he did. That's the Commie Way. They can't beat Whitemen in war, so they brutalize the population of the country they take over by means of "Revolution". It's just the same ol' schtick over and over again. Again, entirely predictable, entirely boring, entirely doomed to fail.

>>17919643 (OP)
Most Americans don't know nearly as much about Stalin or Mao as they do about Hitler. Steven Mosher said it best, "If Mao was in fact possessed by Satan, would he have done anything differently?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVpAsQzW5_s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOdAyNaKiB4

>>17919643 (OP)
There are very different approaches in the countries where each of them ruled. China still treats Mao as overall highly positive and a founding George Washington-like figure:
https://youtu.be/2pJzU9lvRw0

But if you marched around with Mao portraits in the U.S. or something, most people would look at you like a freak (and they would be right).

Germany adopted a policy towards the Nazi period of severe criticism as part of de-Nazification. The Nazi era is treated by the large majority of Germans today as a period of criminality and bloodshed and the German government bands Nazi activities by law. Russia on the other hand went into censorship mode after Stalin. Khrushchev opened up a little bit, but talking about the "dark" period of the Stalin era largely remained taboo until the late 1980s. There has actually been a lot of criticism of Stalin there, but Putin has said various things like "on the one hand he was dictator... but on the other hand he won the war" and comparing him to Cromwell. Putin is essentially a conservative nationalist with authoritarian values.

The different approaches reflect different values, social systems, and national/cultural characteristics.

>>17920840
Is being possessed by the lava lake monster really that bad?

>>17919643 (OP)
Communism is evil and Nazism will never be rehabilitated. If you have an issue with these statements then this thread was never meant to be in good faith.

>>17919705
You have to also consider that modern Germany's citizens hate themselves and are taught to by the state. Contrary to America where there is a general suspicion of the federal government, Germs see that and go "why do Americans not love their government like we do" and all state propaganda in Germany is never questioned, from the days of Hegel to the Nazis all the way up to the Cold War and the modern German state.

>>17919643 (OP)
Hitler target Jews

>>17919643 (OP)
>Why is Hitler demonized, but Stalin and Mao aren't, despite killing much more people?
You opened with a loaded question. All of them are hated by varying standards of hatred. You knew this. You made this thread anyways. Everyone who replied to you without an ounce of critical thought is a fucking NPC, fuck this board you're all retarded.

>>17919643 (OP)
>Why is Hitler demonized
Because of the holocaust and the general war that killed millions
>but Stalin and Mao aren't
What you meant to say is that you are tone deaf to criticisms of communism because it doesn't affirm your beliefs that modern Western governments are communist because they refuse to suck Hitler's dick.

>>17919643 (OP)
>but Stalin and Mao aren't
They are though

Probably because Hitler is the only one to literally attack everybody around him and start ww2?

>>17921099
Russhit projection

>>17921099
>Americans are racially proud unlike Germans
Americans literally called an Indonesian-born Negro "Mr. President" for eight years
Also you aren't an American but probably a Russian

6 million Poles and 27 million Soviets died, so it’s at least 33 just based off that. This is a complete lie. Hitler killed far more than Stalin and did so deliberately as part of a plan to exterminate “Slavic subhumans” Stalin’s deaths were more from agricultural mismanagement than an actual desire to wipe out tens of millions. Around a quarter of the populations of Poland and Belarus died.

>>17921210
Obama was born in Hawaii

>>17919643 (OP)
Most of the deaths on those lists are from retarded agricultural policy. Except Hitlers you retard there is a difference between starving someone because you think sparrows are evil, or listen to a retarded scientist about plants evolving like Pokémon, and ordering deaths.

>>17919771
This chart is shitty. Holocaust was 12. But they aren't counting intentional killings or Maos and stains would be a couple million, and far behind Hitler. So I guess they found another 5 million non holocaust starvation deaths? Maybe it's a dumb chart.

>>17920828
Why just come on here and lie?
Mao was fucking retarded and how own party tried to remove him. But accusing him of intentionally causing the famines is stupid. Also. Calling it the only non natural famine in Chinese history is retard. Several civil wars caused major famines. No different than Maos.

>>17921281
>>17921225
Most deaths caused by Hitler are also because of starvation, plus typhus (unless you believe in the #provenatnuremberg meme about mass gas chambers executing more than a million inmates per year).
I wouldn't bet Soviet Russia and Maoist China had excellent healthcare, and malnourishment increases the chance of dying of an illness, so at the end of the day it was roughly the same

Let's not forget that the Green Revolution happened after WW2, there was objectively less bread for everyone back then

>>17921099
>You have to also consider that modern Germany's citizens hate themselves and are taught to by the state.
That's not actually true, their expression of what looks like self-hatred is actually a reflection of a superiority complex. See, them being like "we came to terms with our past" is what makes them (they truly think) better than everyone else.

Russians are actually self-hating and driven by envy and resentment, and all this stuff about invading Ukraine and being the masters of the world or whatever is them trying to be like America, who they say they hate but really want to be deep down.

>Germs see that and go "why do Americans not love their government like we do" and all state propaganda in Germany is never questioned
See, they haven't fundamentally changed. Germans are like sheep, you see...

>>17921289
The Holocaust happened, but it was still only a small part of the Nazi regime's victims as the war that they started claimed 70+ million lives

>>17921291
>The Holocaust happened
Depends all on what "the Holocaust" means.
If you actually believe in gas chambers, please explain the official witness statements about Sonderkommandos going inside gas chambers to retrieve corpses with lit cigarettes in their mouth and after but a few seconds after the supposed gassings (believe it or not, Zyklon-B doesn't instantly vanish like steam).
Hard mode: don't cite the testimonies of concentration camp leaders, which were notably produced after extensive torture (the typical Soviet way of gathering intel)

>>17921295
>please explain the official witness statements about Sonderkommandos going inside gas chambers to retrieve corpses with lit cigarettes in their mouth and after but a few seconds
Please give us the names of some of these witnesses or supply me a link to their statements so I can look it up.

>>17921290
Germans and Anglos both have a superiority complex and treat the rest of the world like shit. Someday there will be a reckoning against them

>>17921300
I mean there are other people in the world who have superiority complexes too. Chinese come to mind.

>>17921301
Chinese are the Anglo-Germans of Asia

>>17921299
he will never reply to this post btw

>>17921295
The Holocaust (a state-organised plan that resulted in the murder of six million Jews via gas chambers, van gassing, execution, starvation, slave labour and intentional neglect) is the most well-documented genocide in human history.
More than 3,000 tons of documents have been gathered, including orders, reports and photographs, as well as Holocaust train schedules.
There are multiple testimonies from hundreds of thousands of people, including victims, perpetrators, bystanders and soldiers. There are also multiple speeches made by important Nazi leaders about the extermination of Jews, as well as material evidence (the camps themselves and mass graves filled with corpses).
The European Jewish population shrank by six million, with Jews completely disappearing from countryside and big cities (where they could constitute up to 40% of the population of some large cities).

>>17921051
>Khrushchev opened up a little bit, but talking about the "dark" period of the Stalin era largely remained taboo until the late 1980s.
Then it all got debunked with the opening of the Soviet archives largely through the 2000s that proved that the atrocity porn was 95% horseshit and Stalin was largely right about everything and most of the slander against him has no basis in reality, But of course, that doesn't play well into Western or Post-Soviet nationalist narratives, so is buried.
I LOVED the opening of the Soviet Archives, watching all the Anti-Communist freaks hyping it up, then INSTANTLY stop talking about it and 100% ignoring it to this day, is one of the best things about Russian histiography. "but but muh holodomor is totally real but but Stalin totally broke down at the start of WW2 and he loved hitler, but but the purges were totally unjustified and were based on fake claims but but"
K E K. Honestly Communists should move to translate every archived document into English then have them on a very easy to search site, because they debunk damn near every anti-Communist narrative.
Why in fuck Khruschev played into Anti-Communist propaganda to engage in Anti-Stalinism is anyones guess, but it was Khruschev who probably ideologically killed the USSR with it.

>>17921289
Nobody claims the Nazi's gassed 6 lions jews you retard. And you aiming that makes it's obvious your retarded and a liar.

>>17919643 (OP)
Tojo wasn’t a dictator

>>17919643 (OP)
Hitler being demonized is a contemporary issue. The reason why Hitler is demonized is because he emphasised white supremacy. A significant amount of modern white people have been brainwashed into having white guilt.

>>17921289
But the famines were planned and deliberate, it’s in the Hungerplan. Leningrad was starved to try and kill everyone inside it. So no it’s not the same. Hitler tried to destroy Eastern Europeans and he largely succeeded at it causing tens of millions of deaths.

>>17921642
>kills 40 million white people

>>17921642
Hitler didn’t even believe in white supremacy as it’s thought of today, he believed in the supremacy of the Nordic-Germanic race and tried to annihilate Eastern Europeans for Lebensraum. That was the primary reason behind WW2.

>>17919643 (OP)
Hitler is known in west because he created biggest guilt syndrome in their entire civilization, so it makes sense to know about him
Stalinand Hitler are demonized in eastern europe because they were relevant to them, which makes sense, but eastern europeans have no idea what Mao did, which makes sense
its all relative

>>17919713
>how in fuck are life indicators all improving massively, including life expectancy, if 1/3rd of the population are starving to death or being executed or whatever the fuck they claim?
Theyre lying or the dead are making it easier to take care of the living now that they don't require the resources.

It's not about your kill count, it's the fact that Hitler exterminated people based on race or religion.

Being caught in purges or starved due to incompetence is one thing but to outright gas entire sections of the population because they don't look or talk like you do is pretty bad. Not to mention they invaded countries and exterminated the population.

>>17919643 (OP)
Hitler killed more than 17 million people on the eastern front alone, even without the holocaust taken into account, where does this dogshit data come from?

>>17921299
Not inside.

>>17922094
The West hated niggers, faggots, and Nazis at the same time. This game you try to play where traditionalist views hinge on the defeat of the Nazis is embarrassing.

>>17919643 (OP)
Bullshit. The death toll on the chart you saw is fake. Chinese revisionists claim 76 gazillions died, one westerner claims 45 million and most westerners claim 30 million.


Chinese regularly add unborn future children to all death toll estimates.

The 78 million figure is a retarded brainfart by a single journalist Yang Jisheng who admits only 36-38 million died in the Great Leap Forward famine by Mao but Yang said he added 40 million to the death toll to represent hypothetical babies who should have been born to the 38 million famine victims. By this logic you can say Hitler killed 80 million because his 40 million victims in Europe didn't give birth to another 40 million hypothetical children.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Jisheng_(journalist)

Most Western scholars estimate the famine death toll at 30 million and the highest estimate by the most critical western scholar who hates Mao, Frank Dikötter is 45 million famine deaths. No western scholar claims 78 million people died in the famine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Dikötter

Western scholars never claimed over 60 million dead. Only a retard in China is by adding 40 million hypothetical people to a famine death toll. Not a single western scholar claims 76 million died in the famine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine#Extent

>Chinese journalist Yang Jisheng concluded there were 36 million deaths due to starvation, while another 40 million others failed to be born, so that "China's total population loss during the Great Famine then comes to 76 million."[37]

Every single Chinese claims tens of millions more died in every event than westerners claim (Taiping rebellion etc) by counting future non existent babies who were never conceived.

>>17919684
>>17920217
>all of the worst offenders were Commies that killed their OWN people
>>17920828
>and Mao caused the only famine in Chinese history not due to natural causes. He meant to kill tens of millions of his own, and he did. That's the Commie Way

Mao did not kill 76 or 78 million. See>>17922560

There were three different events being conflate together.

Mao's executions against "counter revolutionaries" in the early 1950s is a completely different event from the great leap forward which is again different from the 1967-1969 massacres.

In the 1967-1969 massacres, many Mongols and Koreans were tortured to death and raped by Han Red guard cadres on the basis of their ethnicity in the Inner Mongolia incident and massacres in Yanbian.

So no, Mao didn't only kill "his own people".

>They can't beat Whitemen in war,

I forgot the part of the Korean war when America defeated China and reconquered all of North Korea in 1953.

>>17919684
>>17920217
>all of the worst offenders were Commies that killed their OWN people
>>17920828
>>17922569

The CCP raped and massacred hundreds of thousands of ethnic Mongols in Inner Mongolia during the "Inner Mongolia incident" as well as ethnic Koreans in Yanbian Prefecture.

They literally sent trains filled with Korean corpses to the North Korean side of the border.

Both of these massacres were during the 1960s during the cultural revolution and done on an ethnic basis, just like Stalin deported ethnic minorities.

You're a dumbass if you think the CCP only purged internal Han party members.

Also Manchus like Lao She were driven to suicide by torture from Han Red Guards.

There's a reason why ethnic minorities seethe over this.

Mao also implemented agricultural collectivisation in Tibetan areas in Qinghai which led to a revolt that was put down

They also suffered from crop failure due to collectivisation.