Thread 18088534

America lost the gulf war. Wikipedia kill ratios are fake. There is no evidence combat even happened so this documentary will use generic footage of Kuwait being obliterated after the war. You will get to hear Schwarzkopf talking about his proto Wikipedian worldview and the kill ratio information that was used by future generations to present the gulf war as a victory.
The story of Iraq begins in the 1940s when kurdish axis partisans rebelled against British rule. Kurds are ancestrally Jews and probably leftovers of the khazar people who created European, ashkenazi Jews. Israel and the west have historically supported Kurds to keep Iraq unstable. As Iraq became independent there were repeated Kurdish rebellions sponsored by states like Israel and iran.
Around 1975 Iranian oil production began to collapse due to the hubbert curve. This resulted in the rural religious poor, who had already been migrating to cities, support a Islamist regime. This Islamist regime created great confusion in the west and they had no idea how to respond.
Iran received substantial British infrastructure during ww2 and other wars. The entire world was built by British foreign aid, like Britain building up Ukraine in the Crimean war and the Anglo-Japanese alliance giving japan a stronger fleet than Britain itself. Vietnam is another country with disproportionate capital relative to its size due to its history of foreign aid and wars. Iran and Iraq both received substantial foreign aid in the 19th century and later and by 1980 were serious military powers.
Iraq retaliated against the Iranian Kurdish proxy insurgency and began the iran-Iraq war- better referred to as the Khuzestan war, a poor part of iran where it was isolated.
The mountainous areas of iran and Iraq have historically been impoverished and unstable, in addition to Kurdish rebels. Iraq advanced into khuzestan, ran out of fuel a

nd retreated. Theoretically, major armor battles occurred, and Iraqi t 72s were highly effective. Iraq received these t 72s in kit form from the Soviets, suggesting very low quality.
Iraq has a small number of metalworking and tank upgrading sites where the work to assemble these commenced. Information on these activities are hard to find and none of these exist today. Iraq upgraded its Type 69s to respectable modern tanks with heavy armor and laser range finders. Even during the iran Iraq war, Iraq possessed fully modern type 69QM upgraded MBTs, probably superior to the awful early model Abrams and definitely a threat to the obsolete Iranian Pattons and Sherman's.
In the air, iran claimed a enormous number of BVR kills with Phoenix. Either these kills are mathematically impossible or China delivered a hundred f7s in secret to replace losses.
As a dogfighter the tomcat did poorly and besides the sidra incident, the tomcat has never won a dogfight. Other than mentioned little happened in the air war over khuzestan. Iraq was supposedly able to fire scuds at Tehran although the information on these strikes is extremely hard to find. Iraq also possessed the powerful but delicate tu 22 blinder strategic bombers. It never used these in a effective capacity.
Iraq received fulcrums at the very end of the war and never used them in combat. It's losses were in bomber model floggers and obsolete fishbeds. On the ground, the t 72 was fearsome, but little information exists about the supposedly several hundred vehicle major tank battles in the war. Human wave attacks on the Al faw peninsula by child soldier basij charging into toxic gas seem the most memorable part of the war.
Iran decided the cost of defeating Iraq was excessive and ended the war. The war was a tactical draw but a strategic defeat for Iraq, burdened with western debt and losing its best equipment. Even after the

war, Iraq still had the fourth largest land army in the world and had more airfields and military infrastructure than Germany or France.
Iraq attempted to develop nuclear weapons at the tuwaitha facility. It even constructed a large berm to contain the explosion, although only on one side, implying the researchers would be fried. The tuwaitha facility is just outside Baghdad and quite a risky place for a nuclear test.
Israel bombed the facility while mossad told the guards to go on lunch break. This was the end of Iraq's nuclear program, and their chemical program was incomplete. Multiple nerve gas sites were scattered around the country and required alcohol to mix with precursors to active the gas. Its apparent Iraq never actually used these weapons correctly and they were of low effectiveness in most cases. The sites were pilfered by Mahdist commandoes and Iranian intelligence in 2003 in the organized looting before the American occupation, without ever being put to effective use.
Kuwait had a large Palestinian refugee population which had gained some social status. Native Kuwaitis resented their presence and planned to expel them. In 1990 the Palestinians staged a coup supported by Iraqi commandoes delivered by helicopter. From iraqs perspective, it was making a humanitarian intervention in Kuwait. Small Iraqi forces entered Kuwait and began committing war crimes. Kuwait was a nation of two million which produced five million refugees, proving how silly Wikipedia is and excluding foreign workers.
By January 1990 Kuwait had only 200,000 people left. It's impossible Iraqi forces could have been significant given all the infrastructure and workers were gone. There are claims the initial coup involved tanks, and the "battle of the bridges", but if there were any Iraqi tanks they did not remain long.
Mideast envoy Rumsfield had greenlit the Iraqi invasion, hoping to

start a pointless war to defend Israel. The gamble paid off and world opinion, even the Soviets, all sided with america. Iraq had not been resupplied during most of the iran Iraq war and its primary weapons were mines and infantry weapons. The entire Iraqi navy was three patrol boats and 100 "swary" class, a fake name derived from the Arabic word for "small" and probably representing a nonexistent class of small ships.
The Iraqi Air Force was relatively capable, although it had no tankers to fly in a offensive role. Iraqs strategic missiles were superior and were able to deny airfields as far as Dharan.
America sent the 82nd airborne in a rush to stop Sadaam from taking over Saudi Arabia. America had spent 30 years building up King Khalid military city and it was time to use its infrastructure built for a nonspecific war it somehow knew would happen.
American forces had a Wikipedia strength of 2000 Abrams, which probably includes the great number of fake tanks produced in Egypt. 90% of tanks are lost in breakdowns and it is plausible that america had about 50 Abrams at all useful.
2000 Bradley's were sent but the 1st infantry division did nothing and got a citation for a attachment, TF 1-41. Using the same math it's plausible that only a few dozen Bradleys were actually there.
Airframe life is the sole factor in air combat. Iraq had only 30 modern, Mig 29 fighter aircraft. Coalition forces were around a thousand fighters. Iraq did have quite good bombers like the su 24 and blinder, but they were never operational. Even it's floggers, however, were capable of bomber interception. Iraq used r 24T IR variant Apexes. These had continuous rod warheads, where half the weight was a metal ring that would devastate large aircraft. The sparrow and later missiles artificially increased in range by removing the continuous rod warhead and using a small HE charge.
America technica

lly had better missiles, but Iraqi Foxbats had Acrids, the largest missile ever made. Because the Phoenix had less weight in the warhead, it had more range, but the acrid would tear apart anything it hit. The only practical consequence is whoever hit it would be KIA no body recovered as there is no way to survive this thing. Speicher was hit under the cockpit where that specific aircraft was reinforced and landed in the desert, and the navy concealed his pow status for years until he died.
The Iraqi Air Force at this point was equipped for a mission that didn't exist, of strategic interception and nuclear war. Intercepting light attack aircraft and tank plinking were something that it was greatly overkill in capability for. The warthog lacked the range to engage strategic targets with a useful payload, so Iraq had no real use for its capabilties. Had America gotten anywhere near Iraqi airbases with large forces it would go badly for the warthogs and humvees. America had no cheap, mass produced APC like the BTR or MTLB and its infantry were unprotected.
The foxbats were based at Sadaam airbase in Kurdistan, as it was strategically important and had oil. There were additional planes at Talil, near the ziggurat. It's unclear if america ever encountered these planes when they supposedly occupied the base, and in 2003 they were found buried at a airbase around Baghdad.
Even though American forces were numerically superior, the f 16 was never actually capable of proper BVR engagements in the early models. In terms of fully capable aircraft, America would rely on its 300 Eagles while Iraq had approximately 100 fulcrums and foxbats and significant air defenses. America never had any effective SAM systems and would be sitting ducks if Iraq had some tankers to extend the range of its frogfoots. Iraqi attack helicopters are hard to find information on, but were used in the cia

backed Basrah uprising after the war.
America spent months building up while Iraq put no effort into the war, destroyed oil fields and pulled out of Kuwait. After the refugee exodus Kuwait was simply irrelevant, but America still demanded it back. Iraq never annexed Kuwait or set up a meaningful government, and the nine person occupation government was arrested years later on vacation in Norway and other places. There is no specific point where the Iraqi occupation ended, just like the nazi occupation of Poland ended randomly when one person was captured by Americans while on a business trip. Kuwait did expel the Palestinians, but they came back and are still there. The failure of America to genocide Palestinian expats is a strategic defeat of the coalition forces.
On the military level, america began the war on January 17th with a nighthawk strike on a telecom building. By this point in history telecom exchanges had been obsolete for about a decade and america was effectively bombing an antique museum.
The sources for when planes took off are clown world. The sources claim the strikes launched at midnight but nothing happened until 3am. Iraq is a small country to bomb and the strikes could not have launched much earlier than 2:30. 70% of sorties in the gulf war never happened and Reddit is comically innaccurate on everything. A sortie is a administrative concept not a physical aircraft in the air.
Besides the telecom building and a bridge, there is no evidence that anything of consequence was bombed in Baghdad. The scuds were from fixed, undefended launch sites and america completely failed to hit them. Some sorties were made against airfields which seem like the most significant result, besides some power plants and civilian targets. Iraqs refinery capacity was little affected, and it had unnecessary plans to build refineries under mountains to stop air attacks.

The r 24T is a IR missile and therefore provides no RWR warning. It's unclear if this is intentional or not, but Iraq successfully snuck up on some aircraft and shot them down. There are suspicious kills attributed to mechanical failure over the sea. A b 52, a f 18 (not speicher, an additional one), and a 6 were lost in this way. The navy claimed to mine a water way on the Kuwait-Saudi border yet there's no evidence this happened.
You can view various threads on f 16.net with Iraqi pilots and accounts. I will not bother to link as they will be deleted soon. Most of the information I give is either trivially findable on Wikipedia or from these threads. Additional information is on gulf war veteran websites and the excellent DOD report on gulf war syndrome and depleted uranium, specifically Tab H.
One Iraqi patrol boat escaped to iran. The us navy panicked at the uselessness of its weapons and a British destroyer sent a helicopter to engage a shitty Iraqi boat which scuttled itself. Because missiles are useless even against motorboats, Canadians fired sparrows at these boats and failed to sink them. No evidence exists any Iraqi ships were sunk, but just like Wikipedia had a edit war to hide the Yamato sinking itself, the Iraqi navy died in a fake battle with zero evidence and comical encounters. If you have hornets and tomahawks why are you sending helicopters? They boarded the iran ajr because they were unable to sink it. America is incapable of sinking a little barge.
Fulcrums only engaged eagles twice. The kelk kill opened the war. Another engagement is claimed as a kill, but f16.net claims they were damaged and landed. In January 19th a pair of fulcrums killed a falcon over Baghdad falsely recorded as a Sam kill.
An Iraqi friendly fire incident occurred at some point. Pilots were trained to hold the trigger on auto target and kill the first thing they saw. An Ira

qi fulcrum killed its wingmen on takeoff and then crashed itself. Iraq put zero effort into the war in general.
The Rodriguez engagement occurred when two fulcrums almost reached the awacs. One was hit by a sparrow and died. The other flew unarmed, in a straight line, hoping for the incompetent American pilot to kill it. This never happened so the pilot crashed and bailed out. All of these incidents are clear American victories on Wikipedia. No non-absurd claims of killing foxbats occurred.
On January 19 at 0255Z, the "rjlee.org" blog claimed a phantom died from AAA 1nm north of KKMC deep in Saudi Arabia. This is a bizarre kill with no support or explanation. A RSAF f5 was lost near "wadi Al Kirk" (al Karak in Jordan?) in another incident to AAA. These inexplicable losses could be a typo, or else Iraqi victories. The last kill of the war on 2/27 was a hornet damaged by rifles, incidentally proving rifles are perfectly capable of killing jets. Try finding French losses in the indochina war.
The Iraqi t55s that weren't upgraded to the type 69QM standard were apparently abandoned and counted as the inflated kill ratio of warthogs. Warthogs were restricted to 25 miles of the border and 70 of them took damage, by photos on the internet. 2951-clss.gulwar.com has details but it lists about half.
Usually the better coalition forces were deployed forward. Kuwait and French forces were stuck in dharan while king Fahd had the most active bases. After their weak performance over Baghdad, not even killing that many civilians, america focused on the ground war. The Iraqi government buildings have dozens or hundreds of night security guards yet none of those died, and america supposedly bombed the intelligence building were its own pows were.
When Wikipedia says there's 700 warthogs that's massive double counting due to upgrades. 157 warthogs ever existed and the gulf war killed

most of them. For every kill there's 10 damaged. This is why the low casualties on Wikipedia are misleading for everything. The Iraqi losses are the paper unit strength 100% assumed KIA while the American losses are just a handful of recorded word of mouth casualties. The army reported no missing despite prisoners being released after the war from khafji. The GAO claimed 21 abram losses while wikipedia found 20 scattered around in random websites.
Iraqs assault on khafji was more significant than anything America accomplished in the gulf war. Iraq captured a actual economically relevant minor port for a few days then left when saudis told them it was mean.
1% of the US army was infantry, and the 1st armored and specifically TF 1-37 and 1-41 were the only units that did anything. A few casualties is really complete destruction of everything america sent but Wikipedia gives the lib explanation. Wikipedia applies the casualties=KIA meme to make libs look better.
Finally after all this america decides to do a ground war. The western and eastern wings of the advance did nothing, besides marines killing a bunch of surrendering people in the reveille engagement. T 72 guns elevate when loading the autoloader, showing Iraq was unarmed.
The only actions of any consequence on the ground were 73 easting and medina ridge, and the "safwan stupidity" which is too embarassing to mark as a battle. America attacked from the west and destroyed a bunch of abandoned equipment and Wikipedia hallucinations in empty, unpopulated desert.
At 73 easting some Americans came over a ridge while Iraqis were hanging around naked outside their tanks. America destroyed the tanks with XM78 infantry grenade springs because the Abrams was too shitty to show up.
Cars last a decade and libs expect tanks to last 40 years. In any case the Americans destroyed some rusted equipment before Iraq put their

clothes on. The tawakalna division showed up to see what was happening and accidentally hit a Bradley with an RPG, sending america into total confusion with a bunch of friendly fire as they thought Bradley's were BMPs. Tf 1-41 retreated and then fought in the fictional Battle of Norfolk, invented to make it look like Britain did something even though there are zero British photos from the war or any evidence of them doing anything. The photo of jets flying over oil fields was photoshopped in 2002, using the image name. The battle of Norfolk is largely a Wikipedia creation and no British books or websites reference the gulf war ground campaign. The book "Challenger Squadron" by Richard Dunston, 64 pages, is the origin of the battle and this book is impossible to find. Very few or no British soldiers received any medals or official recognition that the battle was real. The battle of Norfolk is almost entirely contemporaneous with 73 easting and is effectively meaningless.
The battle of medina ridge is relatively meaningless but there was a combined RPG engagement and friendly fire incident where multiple vehicles were lost. Because the army focuses on DU they call everything friendly fire, but many hostile losses are acknowledged.
The typical cope is the lost Abrams "returned to battle". Car companies take cars out the junk yard and repaint them. "Losses" in this sense cannot be a perpetual motion machine and Capt Pope, silver star recipient who was on the edge of the advance says everything was lost to mines in his army website citation.
Safwan was the most absurd incident of the war. Pope met an Iraqi general who asked him to leave. Pope sent a bunch of apaches- which otherwise were crippled by sand most of the war- and acted dramatic, spat, and Iraq assumed they were dealing with an idiot and walked away. Wikipedia shows a dramatic image of a tank standoff at safwan

airfield. I personally emailed the national archives asking for the gulf war ceasefire and it doesn't exist.
Whatever happened at safwan, america stole fuel from local gas stations to get its tanks out. It came back after the war to pick up its abandoned equipment, commit war crimes at Rumaylah, and then leave. The Iraqi pows were handed to saudis after the war but there is zero evidence a significant number of iraqis surrendered or any significant part of their forces were engaged. Those 400 "artillery pieces" at medina ridge could be an RPG or some trash and there is no evidence america killed or captured more than about a dozen tanks or vehicles.
The highway of death is the aforementioned refugee exodus combined with war crimes on all sides. A typical cope is Iraq was using civilian vehicles, which is odd if it's own equipment was virtually all abandoned and post war satellite photos given in obscure local papers confirm no dust clouds showing tank movement into Kuwait. Soviet sate

In another incident a Bradley door was stuck by enemy fire and a Abrams blasted it open, killing crew. In yet another incident 20 Iraqis surrounded a Bradley to "surrender" and an Abrams killed everyone. Some of the "surrenders" on Wikipedia are more like iraq harassing or trying to capture American equipment. In yet another incident Tab H lists it as friendly fire but the soldier interview in the report insists it was enemy fire.
Chobham armor is useless and ceramics. Depleted uranium is a desperate measure that offers not only zero advantages but poisons the crew. No real steel has been produced anywhere in the world since 1900 so they need these stupid changes. The Abrams has rarely or never survived an enemy round that was fired at it. Depleted uranium is both weaker than steel per volume and weight, and useless as a penetrator except it's toxicity. In 2003 there are anecdotes an upgraded Iraq t 72, the asaad Babyl, survived multiple 120mm hits.
It's not "the gulf war never happened". Besides possibly the awfully documented PL Norfolk battle, which might be fake, it was a clear defeat of all 20 American tanks by vastly superior Iraqi forces. The Package Q air strike was almost slaughtered by eight fulcrums and america failed to effectively bomb Baghdad or the static, obvious scud sites. The gulf war did happen; america lost decisively and had no missiles able to outrange the Acrid, no anti tank weapons, and no numbers to fight the war plausibly. Iraq completely destroyed Kuwait and left behind a empty husk which America declared as victory- which was a victory because Rumsfeld told Iraq to do it anyway.

>>18088534 (OP)
I have seen physical evidence of Battle of Stalingrad