Thread 18088943

Did Adam smith and the founding fathers of capitalism in Britain the country responsible for capitalism, account for the eventual AI unemployment causing massive poverty, famine and disease while the elites buy services from each others robots?
The only people selling services would be the owners of robots which provide services, food and security and the only people buying are people who have money from owning data centers and robots.
This was the obvious trajectory from the industrial revolution when Andrew Carnegie's father died of poverty at the age of 51 because of unemployment caused by the industrial revolution to average humans.

The trpf is taxes. Adam Smith said nothing about markets. He was about resource depletion. The entire classical argument was malthusianism and the modern left defeated itself with global warming.
The debate means nothing because the left adopted peak oil and other policies that directly kill leftists and has completely thrown out its own position. Geography and resource depletion is rightwing and the cornucopian side is leftist because the left is the side trying to do things. Therefore the global warming positions and everything the left does today defeat themselves.
Enron alone was a large share of the trpf. The trpf happens because of a small number of single events and it doesn't continue. Banking profit has remained the same over history and the entire trpf was caused by rail taxes initially then by Enron and then by nothing. Since 2000 there has not been any trpf.
The mere fact profit has a trend doesn't matter and doesn't prove Marxism because the trpf was a classical result Marx struggled to explain to prevent malthusianism refuting Marxism. Marx gave a explanation which is just malthusianism in disguise, because taxes increasing depletes the supply of untaxable things and works identical to malthusianism.
If you define trpf different it fails. If you define trpf as taxes plus profit then it never existed. If you define trpf only as dividends or capital income share then capital income share went up. Capitalism is zero sum. A pays b 99, b pays a 98 etc.
If you had a gold standard then gold corrodes and is lost and your system would fail because income would fall. Capitalism is literally retards because it's not possible for profit to exist and any gain comes from a loss. If you build a better product you destroy everything else in equal amount until the system collapses and once there is no margin left to create new firms it is feudalism.
Premise of thread is false and capitalism was never profitable, jobs are just welfare and and ai doesn't affect.

>>18088943 (OP)
Because profit was never motive and captialism is always zero sum, in any model at all and not just in practice, there's no way profitability or wages or anything like that would ever matter. In Smiths time wages didn't exist because there was no manufacturing, and the only time wages were a factor at all was for a brief period from when unions became common, to WW1/WW2 where nobody cared, and then afterwards where manufacturing died and also nobody cared.
Your quote in OP isn't ironic because smith didn't care about markets at all and nothing he wrote mentions markets, so he would have that kind of attitude if banks existed when he was around. The bank of England was the only bank that existed for hundreds of years and when free banking occurred nobody considered it anything more than a pyramid scheme.
Everyone did account for "ai" because everyone had a completely physiocratic understanding in the past. Mises invented capitalism from scratch in 1919 and defined it as a new term. Capitalism was created in WW2 because of auto financing, mortgages and credit cards. If you walked into a store in 1950 you could take anything and everything was free.
It was growth of these requirements to spend money that even made wages an issue and only a few years after this became an issue, jobs already completely died in the 1980s layoffs and in the 1973 oil crisis boomers understood everything was over. The concern was everything would fail and die and the fact ai was involved is quaint as everyone just expected to die.
Even today ai is just a buzzword to hire Indians and fire people and AI is not factor in economics but meth is and everyone will die that way obviously and imminently.

>>18088943 (OP)
No, they lived in a time where humans were considered spiritually superior to all things. The idea that absolutely anything could replace us would be considered blasphemy even amongst the non-religious. Machines were tools to replace inefficient techniques, not humans

>>18088995
The industrial revolution replaced people.

>>18089000
It wasnt a replacement, the unemployment a shock caused by a change in skillset demand. Most people were runners, all of a sudden society demanded swimmers. It tooks a while to catch up but everyone is a swimmer now

Society had good employment in the mid 1950s till now because the industrial revolution didnt replace people

>>18088943 (OP)
Your problem is with legal monopolies which capitalism is actually hampered by, in fact you should ask the opposite.
>Did corporatism and socialism account for AI unemployment? Because of he two, communism from socialism does account for AI and any other thing above a hunter gatherer aboriginal society by not being able to implement them itself in the first place

>>18089300
Monopolies are the natural end of capitalist firms and market dynamics, you stupid subhuman nigger retard.

>>18089308
Understood jidf.

>>18089014
The industrial revolution did replace people. It just didnt happen all at once. It has been increasing ever since it began.

>>18089469
It didn't replace anything, it's that the actual living standards fell and nobody produces anything and everyone is in imminent danger of dying of meth now that capitalism is collapsing.

>>18089469
No, jeets are replacing people right now, not the machines

>>18089521
Indians are nonsentient, anything they do is machine work.

>>18089528
You raise a very strong argument. Maybe the industrial revolution was a mistake because it led to philosophical zombies being mass produced

>>18089308
A corporation needs legal monopolies to do what you claim is their "nature"
You and Hegel are simply delusional charlatans living in their dream world instead of reality.

>>18089551
Not him but i dont see how monopolies can stay illegal for long. Its very easy for companies with decent wealth to bribe politicians to change laws in a way that will further increase their wealth and ability to change laws

South korea has it so bad that Samsung became the government

>>18089558
I like how this thread was killed in first reply and tards keep bumping it.

>>18088943 (OP)
What kind of retarded question is that?

>>18089570
No one wants to read that wall of text nerd

>>18089610
Yet, his is a retard board.

>>18088943 (OP)
Capitalism doesn't account for anything. It has never styled itself an ethical economic system. It's an evil anti human system of economy.
>>18089308
This. They always resort to the "Das not weaw capitowismz". Or they accuse you of being Jewish like themselves

>>18088943 (OP)
Economics has always been the same. Communism is a hypothetical idea without substance which has always boiled down heavy state intervention in capitalism, usually with even worse efficiency and results. For thousands of years people have used barter, currencies, and profits/beneficial trade to organize the way resources are dispersed throughout society.

What communists don't seem to understand is that goods are worth more than people. People are innately worthless, usually with the cost of their sustainment exceeding their labor value. Economics is a resource allocating algorithm(regardless of the specific type you identify with) that selects for material wealth over some intangible like human or cultural happiness, which is why famines and mass death occur even in governments explicitly meant to be populist. People are liabilities, and societies are usually deeply hierarchical with skilled industrialists and wealth holders ruling over most of their society with "the masses" as more of a headache after they lost their spiritual significance.

Mass automation is the natural conclusion of this process. Government and economics for the few with "mass consumption" being an outdated model since everyone is poor and retarded. The masses become truly obsolete and finally optimized out of the resource algorithm.

>>18088943 (OP)
>Did Adam smith and the founding fathers of capitalism in Britain the country responsible for capitalism, account for the eventual AI unemployment causing massive poverty, famine and disease while the elites buy services from each others robots?
Yeah they did, they knew the future and they knew this would happen.

>>18089751
>Communism is a hypothetical idea without substance which has always boiled down heavy state intervention in capitalism
This has already happened in all capitalist countries, done by capitalists, because Marx's critique of capitalism has been proven correct. Capitalist governments intervene in the economy because the anarchy of the market causes unemployment, ecological destruction, and recessions. The market is not always efficient because actors are not always rational and market failures do exist. Even conservatives realize this now with immigration being pushed to lower business costs, by capitalists, at the expense of their race and culture. Men are driven not by apriori ideals, some retarded libertarians would have you believe, but by their material conditions. There is nothing "hypothetical" about communism either. The bible speaks of communism, of people sharing property in common, and many societies, such as the Incas, practiced common ownership of property. Even today, there are many societies like this such as the Amish.
>People are innately worthless,
This point is equally retarded too. Without people, humanity can not exist. So, being alive has value considering it allows us to persist as a species.

The amount of value in the world increases. Where there was first just rock, dirt and rivers, now stand machines that can prolong your life, apparatuses that can send and receive messages from your family via a satellite in space. Production creates value, and the money supply must increase to accurately represent that increase in value. This is the real reason we dropped the gold standard, there wasn't enough gold to keep up with all the value created on earth in the modern day.

>>18089551
Monopolies exist because competition puts firms out of business. Regulatory capture is incentivized by that. Why the fuck do you think a monopolist would purchase politicians? Because he's worried his competitors will put him out of business.
More over, monopolies are much more efficient than small firms anyways because they access to more capital and more workers. They're unironically better than having a bunch of small firms crashing and burning for ephemeral profits. The problem with monopolies isn't that they exist; it's what they are being used for. The police, in itself, is a monopoly on force, but no one would disagree with that because force is necessary to manage society to protect it from bad actors like robbers, thieves and murderers.

>>18090330
>roduction creates value, and the money supply must increase to accurately represent that increase in value
Essentially money abstracts labor, and there isn't enough gold to account for it. Banks, interest, credit, loans, the things that make economies run, don't have any value if people don't work.

>>18088943 (OP)
This whole "my job is automated therefore I am automated and jobless" is such a fucking cope. Painters still exist despite camera's being invented. Accountants still exist despite everyone having a calculator in their pocket. You don't have one chance at a job at the factory, if a robot does your job better and cheaper and you get replaced, you can find another job. You are not doomed to starve on the streets because someone programmed a computer to glue car mirrors faster than you.

>>18090334
Exactly, money is surplus value from the services/products you sold. Consensual trade is merely a combination of two things. Imagine you have a dollar and I have bread.
1) You value my bread more than your dollar.
2) I value your dollar more than my bread.
We trade, and we both become happier for we both have more value than we had before.

>>18090332
What you said implies a world state should have formed long ago.
You don't even understand why corpos and states even exist in the first place
>They are means to an end
Since bureaucracy, the calculation and the knowledge problems exist, the larger the firm/state, the less efficient it is since the things they need to be efficient are literally unknowable by them.
Monopolies are absolutely inferior to free companies and inevitably have to depend on retarded laws granting them effectively monopoly charters
As even system based on thugs would collapse in haste.
>Organizations aren't a solve all magic ointment for commie butthurt
Commies get shot by comrade venture capitalist on the firing squad, ordered by commisar jewish merchant which himsef is ultimately commanded by chairman nobleman instead of achieving the delusional goal of abolishing hierarchy.

>>18091990
>Since bureaucracy, the calculation and the knowledge problems exist, the larger the firm/state, the less efficient it is since the things they need to be efficient are literally unknowable by them.
This is completely retarded and wrong. Walmart and Amazon, are much more efficient than their competitors. That's why their market share is much larger than smaller mom and shops. Imagine saying something so fucking stupid when reality refutes you.

>>18092061
These are legal monopolies using every trick on the legal playbook.
Even commiecucks realize that they dump their costs everywhere else and consume people and goods rather than being actually feasible.
On the knowledge and calculation problems; the mega corps depend upon the market, not the other way around.
The moment they try the takeover you claim they have no obstacles to, they would collapse a la the soviets.
They have no way of actually calculating internal prices and thus use external signals to drive their companies to an at least functional degree, like the parasitic relationship the commies of yore had with the west and hong kong prices.
Them being surpassed and their empires amounting to irrelevance would be inevitable the moment they were stripped of political power by means of abolishing legal monopolies.
You are as ignorant of society as you are of economics.
The romans had all the capital and mass in the world and yet were beaten by literal illiterate barbarians.
Whom among others, they failed to conquer and establish their world state as any tendency for centralization and collectivism is broken upon contact with the individual nature of man and subjectivity of value

>>18092149
Legal monopolies, again, happen because capitalism incentivizes through competition. Peter Thiel himself said it best - competition is for losers.
Like, you are a retarded lolbertarian and have no idea how society works. That's why you never win anything and why nobody takes you seriously.

>>18092149
>The romans had all the capital and mass in the world and yet were beaten by literal illiterate barbarians.
Romans was beat by Ottomans. They weren't "illiterate bandits" you fucking retard. Go back to /pol/.

>>18092196
You are delusional and have been delusional since hegel, as goethe implied and Schopenhauer said - hegels and hegelians are mentally ill. Legal monopolies are purely the result of palace economics a la effeminate communists cry bullying by using mostly the equity fallacy.
Socialism is when the government does stuff as you know.
>Stacy language like like,
Rape
We do win, everything in fact. You'll realize that once you question mob rule and positivism for the first time in your life.
Everything your immoral parasite ideology yearns for was made by our economics and the prototype of our legal theory.
While your bunk theory of value, your fallacies like a supoosed tendency of profit to fall or shrinking markets have repeatedly been proven false, despite your great wastes.
>>18092200
Byzantines, yes.
Ancient Rome ended by the Germans when they overran every province of the west bar a strip of roughly modern Croatia.
There is also an argument to be made on the Ottomans being barbarians but that's too off topic

>>18088943 (OP)
You can't have capitalism if you don't have money. You need a state to have money. So yes. Central banks printing money is still capitalism.

>>18092487
>Communists form monopolies
Lol, Microsoft isn't ran by communists. One of the reasons why Linux, which is actually filled with communists, is so ineffective compared to Microsoft, ran by capitalists, is because it acts as a monopoly. Where as Linux, which is entirely decentralized, suffers from fragmentation, low adoption and market failure. In fact, Linux only saw success recently because corporations, like Valve, poured capital and resources into it. You're a complete lolbert dumbass.
>Also
>Crying about rape
>Posts a photo of Rance
LMFAO, what a retard.
>We do win, everything in fact.
Uh, no you don't. The Libertarian party has never won anything anywhere. Even Trump makes fun of you faggots. Everyone hates you retards and rightly so. You are nothing but parasites who live off the kindness of society entertaining your non-sense.
>Ancient Rome ended by the Germans when they overran every province of the west bar a strip of roughly modern Croatia.
Buddy, the Visigoths were not illiterate, had their own kingdoms and language and Alaric was a literal former Roman army official. Like again, you're a dumbass. And no, the fall of Western Roman Empire was not the end of Ancient Rome. They persisted until the fall of Constantinople. And even then, Julian reconquered many of the territories they lost to the goths.
You're a complete dumbass, have no idea what you're talking about, and should refrain from posting anymore. You clearly have brain damage and are not intelligent to post on a board about history. You've clearly never passed a history course in your life and it shows, bud.

>>18092487
>your fallacies like a supoosed tendency of profit to fall or shrinking markets have repeatedly been proven false, despite your great wastes.
Oh, you're the retard who confused the rate of profit with the rate of return on investment. That makes perfect sense. You're that dumbass, lol. Why did you run away from that thread when I exposed you being a retard?

>>18092518
Microsoft absolutely is ran by communists.
Linux was and is better, the value of normgorid acceptance is illusory.
The lack of "success" by linux is due to copyright being fake and gay. As many "industries" aren't in fact, real. This is also partly why the economy crashes every ten years.
>sentence starts with like, as per stacy linguistics
>I thusly post rape if anon is a stacy
>Communist is illiterate and can only project
Read how i said you will realize the successes of our way if you question mob rule and positivism for the first time in your life.
Don't come to me with nonsense about parties, elections or acceptance.
Also to note is the fact that you're morally a parasite and your idea that man is born slave, indentured to other men in a social dictat is insane and evil.
Germans, when the Romans first met them praised their provess by stating that they would run around naked in a forest.
Same Germans centuries later brought about the ruination of Raetia to the Alps in their entirety and rampaged through gaul to Hispania
King Arthur is thought to forged his legend by fighting against the savages Britain and Gaul.
The semi-civilization of the goths by great effort despite their terror in the east for a century before was repaid in the sack of Rome and occupation of Hispania and Italia.
To their credit, none were as horrid and violent as the Vandals, a tribe that is synonymous with damage of property and savagery.
Ancient Rome was struck a death blow then and was completely erased bar a few remains like the church in th Gothic wars. Ironically due to the byzantines, closest faction to a medieval-Rome which became Greek somewhere down the line and once again, the goths, the unfortunate semi-barbarians from Crimea.
I don't care for courses if there's nothing to gain and i certainly don't care for the whims of some mock Prussian who indoctrinates children

>>18092527
>Schizophrenia
Apparently every hegelian is a madhouse by himself at this day and age
Does profit fall as capitalist operate?
Or is wealth not zero sum as you retards would suggest?

>>18092753
>Microsoft absolutely is ran by communists.
>Bill Gates, a billionaire, is a communist
Yeah, there's no reason to take you seriously.

>>18092844
>https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/bill-gates-and-other-communists.en.html
>But "Capitalism" means monopoly; at least, Gates-style Capitalism does.
Gates is a corporatist shitlib, a close cousin of the garden variety communist.
He wants government to do stuff to get him infinite legal monopolies so he can legislate away his competition. Like a rigorous defense of copyright and "intellectual property", a communist policy of intellectual death and nonsense as there is no scarcity in thought thus no need for property.
All an attempt at psuedo legal power by disingenuous leftards.
He wants to be the state software company, it is hard to be as anti-capitalist.
He is also as delusional a leftard as to literally eat shit to defend his shitlib beliefs.
Normgroid illiteracy regarding the fundementally synonymous nature of international, corporate and national socialism is irrelevant.

>>18092945
>Billionaires is when communism
>Property rights, like copyright, is communism
LOL. yes, things created by capitalist governments is communism. So true!
You clearly aren't mentally ill.

>>18089611
>discovers oil in your backyard

>>18092964
Yes, Oil is famously known for not being useful for human labor.

>>18092959
You're a schizo who believes collectives are real and individuals are fake, The average tree made out of forests
A government cannot be capitalist by nature, explained simply by the fact that socialism is when government does stuff.
Modern Billionaires are corporatists, a breed of shitlib knocking off commies and fascists of old, certainly not capitalists
Intellectual property is commies reading property rights, not understanding it because they are delusional lunatics and then making shit up for their ends, a commie grift, essentially.
You can't have property where there is no scarcity. It's oxymoronic

>>18093056
You think individuals exist can without community, but won't live in the forest to prove us wrong. Even your vapid individualism is a product of a degenerate community that promotes selfishness, consumerism, egoism and narcissism above all else. Your great-grand parents were a part of generation that wasn't.

As you are too delusional to understand even this simole concepts, I'll spell it out for you
>There is this thing called scarcity, so the natural state of being is starvation since there is no hard limit on consumption while means are limited
>to avoid starvation, people ration resources, economizing them
>How efficient you are in economizing is directly correlated to how effective you are at staving off the natural state of being
>To be more efficient and get closer to achieving their ends, people figure out better technologies
>A form of technology is the organization, a study of social sciences to achieve a better economy
>When people want to have a better economy than a hunter gatherer commune and embark on such high maintenance things as civilization as to get even closer to achieving their ends, they have to come up with better ways
>One of the central ways of being efficient is avoiding conflict and incentivization
>People figure out someone homesteads scarce resources from nature instead of merely possesing it, conflict over said resource becomes exponentially harder as no parasitic relationship, bar the owner's wishes, can occur with the consent of the community, Thus personal property is merely property held on person and likely th most primitive property right.
>with property right, people specialize, starting a snowball effect on the economy and allowing the maintenance of civilization as we know it.
>Fucking 4chink word limit

Civilization and property rights are due to scarcity, there is no inherent scarcity in thought as one can think of the same way of doing things while not coming to conflict with the original thinker.
You can light a fire if you make one yourself instead of stealing the fire from it's inventor, you can't copy the same coals he used to make the fire so the inventor can own them
The inventor owns the physical fire but has no claims over firemaking
Also to note is the folly in hegelian dialectics and Marxism;
Hegel's ideology, being idealist, has no defenses against being used against nature, to which the man's reply was that:
>Only the mentally ill do so
Not realizing taht he himself can be then called mentally ill due to his numerous uses of dialectics contradicted nature, the Schopenhauer professorship account for example.
Having no natural boundaries, it's telling that a derivative in Marx would try to ignore the natural scarcity of the world but try to keep civilization, contradicting nature itself.
Thus it's only natural that a communist civilization is unachievable and every time they try, they fail horribly.

>>18088943 (OP)
>massive poverty, famine and disease

AI didn't do any of those things it just lacks something hard ro define that makes life pleasant.

>>18093071
You're on a website that only exists because a community strangers pay for it. You're pretty stupid.
>There is this thing called scarcity, so the natural state of being is starvation since there is no hard limit on consumption while means are limited
This is a really stupid way looking at scarcity. Scarcity largely existed in ancient times because nomadic tribes did not have the people or resources necessary to form communities that could do enough productive labor. It was only until humanity invented agriculture were they able to address scarcity because they no longer had to worry about starving to death. That was only possible when humans formed communities instead of living as the lolbert delusion of atomized peoples' and tribes.

>>18093065
You have to severely mentally ill to a criminal extent to gaslight this hard
You have banned secession and threaten anyone even proffesing their desire to do so with resolute and rabid application of every brutality and barbarity
You have decreed that all there is owned by your god kings, "in the name of the collective", if we as much as move to the forests , you will strike us down the moment you sense any wealth due to your parasitic, totalitarian disease of an ideology.
You immoral parasites are the type of people that conduct on highly educated mathematicians, absurd drug experiments, when the man flees for the woods, you go to his woods and harras him ever so, driving him mad to the point of violence against the skinsuit of civilization you use for your immoral, tyranny of the tranny

>>18093075
>Civilization and property rights are due to scarcity
It's actually due to agriculture. Imagine being so stupid you think you can have property rights if you can't produce enough food to even survive to create them. All social structures, and ideas, are product of material conditions. None of your retarded lolbertarian claptrap non-sense has any bearing on reality. Even most technological progress stems from the growth of states. Humans accomplished the most scientific progress in history with the growth of public education, public sanitation, and mechanized agriculture that was only possible because of state investment and planning.

>>18093092
It's not illegal for you to live in the woods. Go form your own state, your own society, grow your own food. We don't have any obligation to care about your feelings or your tears.

>>18093090
I don't concern myself with how other people make use of their property, you do and this fact clouds your understanding.
Organizations are tech, tech are tools. Tools are means to ends, men can make any organization they want and disband any organization they want and both of these are perfectly naturak things.
You are naive in your approach ot scarcity, nothing has changed ragarding scaricty since the first man ever stepped into the world
As i said, it's the libertarians legal theory in prototype that allowed for civilization that we have, what ills this civilization has as a civilization can be attributed to the lack of usage of the libertarian legal theory in favor of other, anti-civilizational theories.

>>18093105
>As i said, it's the libertarians legal theory in prototype that allowed for civilization that we have
But this is completely wrong. Civilization requires forming a community, surrendering authority and individual autonomy to a sovereign. It's a complete rejection of libertarianism because libertardrianism is an ideology driven individualistic non-sense and selfishness that rejects social contracts.
It's just a degenerate, libertine philosophy with no real world value or application.

>>18093097
>Advancing beyond hunter gatherer communes means property rights
>Dummy you need to advance beyond hunter gatherer communes
Yes, that's the point of property rights, advancing beyond communes and establishing civilization.
There's a reason that tech as we know it was invented around then

>>18093110
The Social dictat is purely Rousseau's invention and exists as a contract only in the Rousseauean mind.
A tyrant is a detriment to it's community.
Laws are based on nature, ethics and morality.
whatever rules there is abides by laws, not the other way around. Whenever it is tried, it shares the same dysfunctional fate as every other commie experiment

>>18093112
Libertarians don't believe in paying taxes, don't believe serving the common good, or even doing anything outside of being selfish and greedy.
If anything, you are the anti-thesis of civilization.
Don't make us laugh, bud.
>>18093117
>The Social dictat is purely Rousseau's invention and exists as a contract only in the Rousseauean mind.
Not really, every civilization has had social contracts, laws, rulers and hierarchy. It is the result of nature showing the survival of individuals is dependent on how strong their community is against nature and other groups of individuals. Your a historical libertardian non-sense has no barring on reality and never will.
>Yes, that's the point of property rights, advancing beyond communes and establishing civilization.
Libertarianism would have never advanced past peasant communes though. You basically want everyone to live as poor, medieval peasants. You think it is okay when people die from preventable illnesses and diseases because you think the state, or any national community really, is inherently evil.
Just child like stupidity, all around, from morons who only exist because a government puts so much work into keeping retards like you alive.
Might as just eat wild berries then if you hate the FDA checking your food to make sure its safe or fucking drink water from random streams because you hate the fact your water supply is cleaned and paid for by your local government, dumbass.

>>18093102
None of the things you say are allowed by the current powers that be due to their ethics, since their ethics are broken they ignore the contradiction in not following it fully since it would be brazen tyranny. Many precedents have been set in favour of my argument, as the example of Ted I gave above, or in case of a "major" secession:
>https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/700/
Or the variety of examples where any community that wishes any kind of secession immediately gets infiltrated and dismantled as soon as possible by literal secret agents, easily proven by incidents like ruby ridge.
Delusion truly is a fundamental fact of leftism, from Hegel to trannies

>>18093125
>No concept of charity as doing good for the sake of good is entirely alien
>Delusion that liberterians are like his commie friends in opposition to hierarchy despite loudly advocating for it
>Delusion that cooperation needs tyranny, unaware that it's solely due to politics infiltrating economics that tyrants arise
>Projection to the point of transparency, every crime he accuses, his side has indulged in full capacity
>Zero idea where the gooberment gets the vast resources for the scarcre handouts
The study of nature can heal you

>>18090335
I refuse to believe this and will smashing a god damn loom tomorrow to prove it.

>Rousseau invented social contract theory
Libertarians are so stupid think Code of Hammurabi and the Magna Carta was because of Rousseau, lol.
A concept that doesn't start with him and was articulated by Hobbes and Aquinas before him.
Dude Libertarianism has to be like the most retarded ideology ever.
>>18093133
>None of the things you say are allowed by the current powers that be due to their ethics
You don't believe rights come from government, in the first place, retard. You said they come from nature. It's totally irrelevant what the government says. How are you this stupid? You're arguing against social contract theory, but then saying you won't do anything because of a social contract, lol.
Like you said, it's all just in your head. It's not real.

>>18093140
>He thinks civilization is an act of charity
>He thinks supporting civilization is communism
>He thinks it is tyrannical for the government to build roads and hospitals
LOL

>>18093102
It literally is, and you will be taxed even if you try it.

>>18093133
>Libertarian
>Believes slave holding states are not tyrannical
Even more so, retardly, Southern states had social contracts and were made up of communities. They even practiced conscription.
You're such a retard you're defending governments that contradict your own principles.

>>18093145
But taxing you is fair. You don't own land. The state does. You don't have right to our land just because you're live. It's the price you pay for civilization. If you don't like it, make your own. Simple as.

>>18093142
The social dictate as a contract was invented by Rousseau
The prior ''inventors'' were either honest in saying it was basically tyranny, or with excuses like religion or directly bootlicking I dismissed out of hand
>Gaslighting
Why would one embark on a mission that one knows will be brutally and illegitimately snuffed out before one make sure it won't be? It is to embark on a fortnight of camping without supplies.
I obviously question your honesty and goodwill on this point, especially since you repeatedly wish to die upon this hill.
I don't have to believe in the legitimacy of powers that be to recognize them as powers.
As the king of England once said, upon being asked to stand before an illegitimate court, that he was standing before a power. He was standing nonetheless.
A truthful and honest study of and surrender to reality, a concept foreign to the dialectic I know, but I can simultaneously recognize a law as illegitimate and yet in effect.

>Supports the confederacy
>Is against taxes
Lol, libertarians are so dumb. How do you think confederates paid for their war, dumbass? Without conscription, or even taxation, they would have never been able to even mount a defense against the North. They didn't even follow your retarded libertarian principles.
>>18093169
>The social dictate as a contract was invented by Rousseau
No, Rousseau did not invent the the concept of constitutions, laws and legal codes. They predate his existence thousands of years. You're just completely wrong and retarded.
>Why would one embark on a mission that one knows will be brutally and illegitimately snuffed out before one make sure it won't be? It
You don't want to live in the woods because you're lazy, and don't want to actually work. Society requires effort, community support, and actual productive labor. Libertarians don't believe in any of that. Libertarians rather smoke weed, masturbate, and play video games while everyone else works and pays taxes for them.

>>18093169
>I don't have to believe in the legitimacy of powers that be to recognize them as powers.
Nobody cares what you particularly believe. You're narcissist who believes society ought to bend to your will. You don't have the power do anything. If you did, you wouldn't be on 4chan crying about states "oppressing" you. You're a just loser living with your parents bro.

>Why would one embark on a mission that one knows will be brutally and illegitimately snuffed out before one make sure it won't be?
Liberals, Christians, communists, nazis, fascists were able to make their own societies. Libertarians are the only people in the world, with a political philosophy, that can't because they're stupid and weak. It's not our fault we're more intelligent than you, and can do things you can't because you're too autistic to accept the need of power, authority and social organization to create successful societies.

>>18093125
>don't believe serving the common good, or even doing anything outside of being selfish and greedy.
Bad faith argument born out of ignorance. I would like to help people, ai would not like to be forced to help people by the government under threat of jail for tax. One is to act according to my values, the other is being a sacrificial animal to he plundered. Commies don't give any moral credit to taxpayers either, only the guy they voted in to hold the gun in your face while you pay for the destruction of your living space.

>>18093196
>I would like the help people
Nigger, you're spending time on 4chan arguing with me. You're just a bum looking for attention and self validation over the internet. Nobody gives fuck about your personal "values" or problems. It is not our obligation to accommodate you, tranny.

Karl Marx was going to write about automation before he died but to anyone who knows about the falling rate of profit its obvious.

>>18093230
Brother you are projecting, I am trying to help you right now by suggesting you cast off your shackles of guilt.

>>18093191
Their utopian vision of the perfect capitalist society free of government has literally never existed. It's all one big meme trannyism

>>18093365
It did exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#Historical_precedents

>>18093391
Medieval iceland doesnt count. It had no stocks and no financial instruments. It was just serfs that kicked out their lord or something. Keep in mind iceland is in the middle of nowhere so barbarians couldnt be assed to go there.

>>18093391
>Somalia, Iceland, and wild west
Some lineup. Anyway, these are mere observations on what could be examples. Not examples themselves

>>18093391
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#Historical_precedents
So, the historical precedents of "anarcho-capitalism" is literally just larping and dying as a an impoverished medieval peasant. Holy shit. Who the fuck would agree to such primitive non-sense? You honestly believe life would be better if people lived on communes.

In my mind the two alternatives are state capitalism or capitalism with state intervention. The latter would be more palatable to americans and we can point to successes such as singapour.
But as is americas 5 year plans are marvel and sass applications.

>>18093421
Nah, we should listen to the anarchist/libetarian here retard telling us life would be better if we just lived on a medieval commune with no running water or electricity.
Who doesn't want to get robbed by bandits or pay dues to a Chieftain. At least we don't have to pay taxes!

Good evening trannies
>>18093144
>no, civilization is built upon actual conrtacts between people and charity, your like of violence entrenches your ignorance of this fact
>No, im saying that communism is anti civilization and this is why every society collapses as fast as it becomes closer to communism
>It's tyrannical to build scarce handouts to bribe people with their own, robbed money, yes
Had they built those roads and hospitals out of charity, they would be good, civilizational things but you defend dying on the waiting line from being raped by trannies at the NHS, funded by your money, like the retard you are
>>18093149
>Here's this document literally stating secession is illegal as the main point
>You are southerner and want to reenact slavery upon innocent niggers in a grand quest to break every buck in your home state!?
I suppose in the molten mind of the commie, every secession must entail the south, despite the fact that it was the federalist north that first put forth secession on the war of 1812.
>>18093152
No, the homesteader owns the land, any such claims by state are unethical and illegitimate monopoly agreements a la divvying up of colonial land and people between the most violent aggressors for future exploitation.
Which explains the difference in governance between actual states, tools to an end, and socialists states, a pagan god to be sated;
The socialist state exploits it's subjects to the whims of it's oppressors under the name of the holy social construct. An ethical state on the other hand is exploited to the whims of it's citizens to the benefit of people instead of a social construct.
>>18093179
You are a moron fighting a phantom, the sole reason a libertarian may defend the confederates would be that they were closer to our side than the radical republican north. Liberterianism inherent in the ''states rights'' ideology would abolish slavery at its heartland, likely without 500,000 dead and a civil war. Fucking 4Chink word limit

>18093179
Rousseau absolutely invented the modern concepts of constitutions. There are basically no countries with a constitution before the enlightenment for this reason, as the concept is actually a legal positivist delusion.
Value stems from subjective judgement, I have no moral obligation to work for you, which is why I wish to secede from your society to freely work with my friends and people, as I am peaceful, I secede instead of take over. Civilized society requires ethics, morality and law, not theft, deceit and oppression, comnmunists don't believe in any of that and thusly are stuck in hunter-gatherer level of development, coping with ''socialism'' instead
>>18093187
It's not me believing them, I believe that you're arguing in bad faith right now, that's irrelevant. What it is an admission of reality that is there are illegitimate laws that bar anyone from actually establishing a separate society from the great totalitarian mob rule currently in effect.
To the point that they have and are trying their best to suppress pattern recognition itself in an anti-humanitarian effort to destroy racism, even if it would be directly against human nature not to be tribalist, as they believe in dialectics directly from the realm of ideas, detached and irreverent to nature and reality. This is also why trannies are left wing delusions, as they clash with the natural barrier of not being able to be real women.

>>18093191
None of these factions had ever built their own societies, every single and last one of them either subverted their old societies to their totalitarian cults or imported ''their'' societies which had been subverted.
To go back to the unsubverted, old societies, they were founded upon the principles laid out and subverted according to elite theory and political whims, often with violence and revolts against the hierarchy alongside the moral subversions.
The mere notion that a new society can be made is an existential threat to these societies and since the most radical politic wins in every revolution and these are revolutionary ideologies, they do everything in their power to suppress such things.
Thus, if there is a truly new nation on the map, it can only come from the lack of these societies due to their collapse, decay, weakness from further subversion etc.
>>18093365
It's fundamental to civilization as we know it, without human action and free labour, no country would exist and any that previously did would decay a la Cambodia under the Khmer rouge.
You can find the roots of libertarianism in mediaeval England and the HRE in practical applications under politics, on an almost purely philosophical experiment, without ever present threat of totalitarian subversives, mediaeval Iceland, until it was subverted and taken over by the totalitarian ideologues of Christianity, may provide an example. To a lesser but modern extent, modern Somalia improved after its communist regime collapsed, despite things like Japanese looting, nigger lack of intelligence and more totalitarian intrusions and attempts at a literal world government.
>>18093408
>He uses wikipedia
Please don't

>18094110
>He uses wikipedia
>Please don't
was meant for >>18093391
>>18093406
They are closer to libertarian theory than others. There has been no libertarian experiment as even Milei is a pragmatist and thus a minarchist abiding by politics
>>18093408
No, that's the remains of the totalitarians and in the case of iceland, the place wouldn't even be colonized if not for the proto libertarian ideals its people had. Actually, these are mostly the ideals why most peoples admire white people and try to be like them, there are a varying, interesting extents and misunderstandings to these ideals all around the world.
>>18093421
>>18093424
We should enact limited government and a gradual way to secession in a national divorce. Then establish free city states with associations and clubs of natural intersections according to our principles/
Later on, likely establishing a more voluntary HRE-like empire to replace the American empire, as much as politics permit.
To achieve better politics, we should lessen the myth of the central government and abolish democracy as much as possible, lessening the subversive potential of totalitarian ideologies by slashing their collectives and letting people secede away from them until subversive collectives impotence.