Thread 18098425

Atheists seem to overwhelmingly be the most reasonable ones on the topic of religion, even with the "Trust the Science" shit. When considering the utter lack of evidence surrounding creation and the supernatural it makes more sense for one to be a deist than a muslim or a christian, no?

>>18098425 (OP)
Enjoy hell

>>18098430
Enjoy being a slave to judeo beliefs.

>>18098425 (OP)
>even with the "Trust the Science" shit.
there are normal people and there are goycattle, religious or otherwise

>>18098484
Actual scientific research is a full-time job that requires years of training. The problem is people think browing Facebook groups, maybe at best reading the abstracts of a few studies and half understanding them, is "doing their own research" and that it gives them more knowledge than actual scientists in the field they're "researching."

>>18098430
Good luck making it across the river styx with that attitude.

Every religious person is just an atheist minus exactly 1 religion. Everyone in the world is one religion away from atheism. You don’t need to convince a Catholic to reject Islam. They already reject it by default.

99% of people are just the religion their dad told them to be. Nothing more to it.

>>18098826
“Scientists” told us cigarettes are good for you, lobotomies make women nice, and circumcision cures epilepsy.

“Science” only became a somewhat serious subject in like the 1980s. Even after that point, it’s tenuous.

For reference, doctors didn’t believe babies could feel pain until like the 1990s.
>What? That’s fucking retard. Everybody knows babies can feel pain.
Yes, regular people do know this. Doctors do not because doctors are retarded.

Seriously though, doctors and scientists, historically, were somehow fucking dumber than the average peasant. Or they were just sadists.

>>18098879
Not Hindus or Buddhists, they can have as many deities and religions to match as they can imagine, Allah is one of their lesser gods and Christ is technically just just a lesser demigod in their pantheons.

>>18098880
>doctors didn’t believe babies could feel pain until like the 1990s.

Now I think you're lying here and trying to pull a semantic pilpul. Doctors were most likely trying to determine the stage in the development of the fetus when pain can be experienced, i.e when the brain and nerves are developed enough. We know that a zygote can't feel pain, but a baby can, so pain receptors must develop at a certain stage. You are just dishonesty conflating doctors trying to figure out the stage in fetal development when pain can be experienced with them "believing babies can't feel pain"

>>18098425 (OP)
There's literally no good arguments for atheism and only retarded midwits think there are. Read nietzche once and thinks Christianity is le Jewish psyop (low iq God goy anti semitism). It's the biggest emperor has no clothes moment when you realize atheists and scientism enthusiasts are the biggest knuckle dragging morons alive.

>>18098890
Imagine taking chink and pajeet pagan religions as true but shitting on the traditional European faith millennia old bc you want to "rebel" against le heckin religion.

>>18098904
No, he is talking about how doctors didn't believe babies actually felt pain and didn't even use anesthesia for circumcision because they didn't believe the crying babies were actually feeling pain, but having muscle spasms, so they used muscle relaxants instead.
https://www.newsweek.com/when-doctors-start-using-anesthesia-babies-medics-thought-they-couldnt-feel-pain-1625350

>>18098911
I wasn't taking them as true, I was pointing out they don't conform to the retarded statement I was refuting. Don't say "every religious person" and "everyone in the world", say every abrahamic cuck instead if you are only talking about those specific paternal religions derived from abraham instead of all possible religions in the entire world.

>>18098430
Enjoy wasting a huge chunk of your life appeasing your invisible friend, and then never realizing how badly you got fucked over once you return to nothingness.

>>18098928
I just read the article and here's what it states

>When did doctors start anesthetizing babies?
>The belief that babies' nervous systems were undeveloped and they therefore could not feel pain meant they were not provided with anesthesia as standard practice. Instead, babies were administered muscle relaxants to stop them from moving during invasive procedures.
>The belief was the result of years of inadequate studies, many of which suffered from the fact that clinicians struggled to understand the differences in pain responses between fetuses and adults, with this misunderstanding carrying over to newborns.

I was wrong because I said doctors know that a person can feel pain, but not a fetus at some point in development. I assumed that doctors thought that pain responses develop in the womb, and not after being born. But the point stands that they just got the age wrong, the initial idea is still correct, pain and pain responses develop at a certain age, just not after you are born, but a fetus. Ultimately, the doctors used the scientific method and realized they made an error in their judgment regarding the age of pain development.

>>18098880
>“Scientists” told us cigarettes are good for you
that's the fault of capitalism - tobacco companies funded that research
and also, how does this square against the incessant claim by christcucks on this board that science and especially medicine are the result of christian culture in europe, especiall when discussing the "dark ages"?

>>18098950
Yea and mental illness skyrocketed after those studies were thrown out and people stopped smoking so many cigarettes and there was no evidence that tobacco was all that carcinogenic until after the US and their allies irradiated the entire earth with numerous nuclear tests.

>>18098954
Please provide proof that there is a correlation between mental illnesses skyrocketing and people smoking less.

>>18098972
I already provided everything you need to confirm it on your own, mental illness incidents increased over the same time period that cigarette use decreased and nicotine is known to treat schizophrenia, bipolar, obsessive compulsion, anxiety, adhd, and a number of other mental health disorders which is why self medication is one of the leading drivers of cigarette use.

>>18098954
legit schizoid take, sometimes i forget the amount batshit people on this website

>>18098977
>no sources
why WHY do i keep wasting my time on here

>>18098826
>Actual science is a full time job of fudging numbers and faking graphs to pretend that your job is more important than it really is so that corporations and/or the government will continue to give you money to tell them things that they want to hear
FTFY
>>18098950
>Muh capitalism boogeyman
Capitalism sucks but communist science (Lysenkoism) caused millions of deaths by famine. Communists couldn't go to the moon. Communists couldn't build a decent car or even figure out a pair of blue jeans. Communist scientists accidentally (?) released a half baked bioweapon onto the world 5 years ago. The problem is the misplaced authority of scientists and rewarding them for empowering their sponsors at the cost of truth - not the system that happens to sponsor them (which may deserve criticism on its own.)

>>18098826
Science relies on the concept of falsification but science as a process in and of itself is unfalsifiable. Think about it: if you were to compare the scientific method to a different epistemological method, you would use the scientific method to compare the two. The problem with science is that it insists upon itself.

>>18098987
>goes on a rant about communism out of nowhere
rent free
> (which may deserve criticism on its own.)
yes, that's what i was doing

>>18098994
The common denominator was that both systems use bogus scientific claims to increase their power, you dirty fucking pinko fag.

>>18098980
Even though you are probably just a stupid person who meant schizophrenic instead of schizoid, you can use any search engine to confirm that nicotine can help with schizoid symptoms by relieving the anxiety of being surrounded by strangers.

>>18098982
Increasing mental illness rates: https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2019/03/mental-health-adults
Decreasing smoking rates: https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco-trends-brief/overall-smoking-trends
Self medicating with nicotine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia_and_tobacco_smoking
Sources tend to just fall on deaf ears on this site and if you don't want to believe to the point you refuse to even do the due diligence to search on your own, you are just going to dismiss any source that conflicts with your preconceived biases anyway.

>>18099004
you posted 2 unrelated sources and one that you've decided to marry the first 2, even though it only mentions schizophrenia.
homicide rates have gone down in the west roughly tracking the same timeframe, did people quitting smoking affect that too? it's almost as if enviromental and economic factors are have a much bigger effect, as well as the decrease in stigma and changes in criteria around the issue leading to more diagnosing

>>18099019
I accept your concession, mental illness has indeed skyrocketed since nicotine use plummeted and mentally ill people are known to self medicate with nicotine to relieve their symptoms.

>>18098909
>There's literally no good arguments for atheism
Are there good arguments for magic flying jews?

>>18099025
>I want to fly with magic and if anyone in the past has ever flow with magic, then I can probably do it as well.

>>18099024
whatever keeps your headcanon consistent buddy

>>18099030
Whatever you need to tell yourself to stay on your high horse and keep dismissing sources that don't align with your predetermined biases exactly like I said you would.

>>18099032
your sources don't prove your point. there's a HYPOTHESIS that SCHIZOPHRENICS (not the only mental illness) may use nicotine to self-medicate but it's not clear why and the research fails to take a lot of variables into account, as described in the wikipedia article you've cited. the other two stats are just stats that you insist on being related, despite the fact that things like environmental factors (pollution has been found to have an effect) and economic factors (rampant poverty, lack of access to care) as well as increased efforts in diagnoses have more evidence in their favor.
again, did people start killing less due to quitting smoking as well?

>>18099019
>2 unrelated sources
>Durr two unrelated organizations both confirm the claims being made, so that means its wrong since its not just one source from some organization in a position of authority releasing studies specifically trying to outlaw tobacco.

>>18099039
i'm saying its wrong because you're inventing a relation that is not there. did you read my post entirely?

>>18099024
>People used to smoke a lot and now they don't
>Mental illness rates were lower and bow they skyrocketed
>Therefore smoking reduces mental illness rates

>People eat more icecream in the summer than in winter
>People commit more violent crimes in the summer than in the winter
>Therefore eating icecream cause people to commit violent crimes

Ban icecream now.

>>18099038
>there's a HYPOTHESIS that SCHIZOPHRENICS (not the only mental illness) may use nicotine to self-medicate
No, that is the direct observation not the hypothesis, they definitely use nicotine to self-medicate, the hypothesis is either why they do it or how it is actually affective instead of placebo.

>the other two stats are just stats that you insist on being related,
No, the other two sources have the different stats to prove my claim that mental illness skyrocketed (source 1) as nicotine use plummeted (source 2).

> despite the fact
I see that while your entire complaint about my argument is that I don't provide sources upfront, while you yourself don't provide sources either, how quaint.

>>18099042
No, I didn't invent anything, the stats fully back me up that mental illness skyrocketed in the time period smoking plummeted, you just want to find other ways to explain it away, but the basic claim I made holds and the other claim I made about you refusing to do your own due diligence and just wanting to attack sources holds because you didn't even attempt any further research before complaining that the specific wiki is only about schizos.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_features_of_bipolar_disorder#Substance_use
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder#Prognosis

>>18099043
I accept your concession, you give zero shits about sources, but acknowledge that I was 100% correct about mental illness increasing as smoking decreased >>18098954 and them still to this day turning to nicotine >>18099004 to relieve the symptoms that big pharma can not.

>>18098972
I’m just going to wildly throw out here for interest’s sake that when I was sectioned in a mental ward of a hospital the doctors encouraged us to smoke. They even bought packs of cigarettes to hand out to us. This was in a first world country with universal health care. It’s my understanding that nicotine’s anti-psychotic properties are fairly widely accepted by medicine, just not seen as being a worthy trade off for habitual use by the average person when considered against its negative health effects.

>>18098425 (OP)
>I don’t know what evidence is
>But I’m good at repeating gaytheist talking points
Enjoy Hell.

>>18099044
the hypothesis is either why they do it or how it is actually affective instead of placebo.
yes, so there's no conclusive evidence that its related to decreased instances of schizophrenia, right?
>don't provide sources either
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2888013/

>>18099053
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_features_of_bipolar_disorder#Substance_use

two of the sources cited here:
>https://journals.lww.com/hrpjournal/abstract/1998/09000/the_effect_of_comorbid_substance_use_disorders_on.2.aspx
comorbidity, as in observing that BD people are more likely to use drugs and alcohol, nothing about self-medication and its effects.

>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032702004548
>Laboratory research has demonstrated the inaccuracy of many patients’ self-reports regarding the effects of substance use on mood (Mirin et al., 1976). Our findings extend this work by highlighting the importance of patients’ perceptions of the effect of substance use on mood.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder#Prognosis
>Although the study did not pinpoint exact causes of death, it highlighted that individuals with ADHD were more likely to engage in smoking, alcohol misuse, and face other health challenges such as depression, self-harm, or personality disorders.[348]
is this what you're referring to? this is not indicative of increased risk of ADHD due to less smoking.
ffs are you arguing in bad faith on purpose or are you a retard?

>>18099076
So if the smoking caused all the cancer and had nothing to do with mental illness, why is it when smoking plummeted cancer and mental illness both skyrocketed wouldn't the comparative lack of smoking significantly decrease cancer rates if it was the main causal factor in cancers?

>the hypothesis is either why they do it or how it is actually affective instead of placebo.
I accept your concession, you didn't understand even understand what the hypothesis was before.

> nothing about self-medication and its effects.
>Often bipolar individuals are subject to self-medication with non-prescribed drugs such as alcohol, tobacco and other recreational drugs.
>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032702004548?via%3Dihub
>One explanation for this phenomenon is the ‘self-medication hypothesis’, which states that some patients experience improvement in psychiatric symptoms as a result of substance use.
You literally picked the wrong link on purpose.

>arguing in bad faith on purpose or are you a retard?
Says the one skipping over text and picking the wrong citations on purpose.
But yes the fact that they engage in that more often to help with their mood means they are self-medicating, whether or not a psychiatrist can actively measure their mood or not doesn't change the fact that they pursue it and they feel relief that big pharma is not providing.

This is why sources don't matter, you will literally just misrepresent them on purpose.

>>18099091
>wouldn't the comparative lack of smoking significantly decrease cancer rates if it was the main causal factor in cancers?
i've wasted my time arguing with a braindead retard.

>>18099093
Sure, cancer went way up when smoking went way down because smoking was totally the cause of so much of the cancer, you are definitely not the one arguing in bad faith.

>>18099093
Is that always how you handle losing the argument or have you ever actually been able to retain your dignity while doing so like this >>18098942 fine commendable gentleman did?

You need a high iq to make religion work. You aren’t actually supposed to believe it. You’re meant to entertain it. Priests were at one point just another type of politician, and repeating rituals was simply a part of the political system.

“Did the Greeks actually believe in their gods?” The paradox of belief.

All the pros you see in religion aren’t truly exclusive to religion, though. The benefits are in the community bonds or binds. You don’t need religion for that.

>>18099059
What evidence do you have for witches, giants or people coming back from the dead after three days?

>>18099843
>witches
Scientists.
>giants
Freaks of nature.
>people coming back from the dead
Idk about that.

>>18099928
>scientists
You jest, but the word for pharmacy comes from an old Greek word that once meant sorcery.

>>18099843
Witches openly practice their abominations in 2025 America. See: Salem, MA. You are now a proven liar.

>>18098880
>“Scientists” told us cigarettes are good for you
They were also the ones who figured out its bad for you, do you think cigarettes being bad was in the bible?

>>18098940
>return to nothingness.
Honestly, Anon. If this is all there is, really none of this matters.

>>18100859
King James (the man) was heavily against smoking.