Thread 18127744

>"b-but why are you sending me to hell that's evil!"
>I define what is good and evil
>"I didn't know any better please have mercy"
>I made you so I could send you to hell, it has been predetermined
>"Please its gonna hurt really bad"
>Don't place your feelings above divine law
>"AAAAARRGHH"
Based.

Bring it on, skyqueer.

>>18127744 (OP)
Calvinists, for the most part, don't even believe their God is actually good.
Sure, if you press them on their theology they'll defend every aspect to their death, but when they're not thinking they'll say things that make me question if they're sincere.

For instance I was listening to one of John McArthur's sermons, and in the middle of it he says that it's a tragedy when anyone goes to hell, but how can a Calvinist seriously claim this?
If you believe in free will it is a tragedy because that person could have done otherwise, but Calvinists hold that our universe is the best possible one, meaning it would actually have been worse if that person didn't go to hell than if he did, and that him ending up there glorifies God all the more.
In-fact, if you're a Calvinist you should be happy whenever someone goes to hell because God already preordained it to be so, and for the best.

>>18128120
Is it meaningfully worse than regular Christianity, when God is omniscient and knows entire societies and civilizations were born with no knowledge of Jesus or the bible and so are damned to hell by mere happenstance? Or about him tolerating genocides and serial baby rapists and the natural world being a world of death and misery where 99.99% of organisms live short, miserable lives, the conditions of which would obviously turn people against the idea that an all good or all knowing God exists? If anything Calvinists are the only abrahamists who are at least honest and acknowledge their God is God for power alone, and moral consistency/mercifulness is NOT one of his traits

>>18127744 (OP)
>I made you so I could send you to hell, it has been predetermined
The first part of the sentence isn't necessary, sounds more like double predestination/supralapsarianism than Calvinism

>>18128485
Just like the Trinity it isnt supposed to make sense. Doesnt have to.

>>18128485
>mere happenstance
In the Biblical worldview, happenstance isn't in the vocabulary, and there's a reason for everything.

>>18128673
>and there's a reason for everything.
Explain how, according to christian cosmology, anyone who was born before Yeshua were sent straight to Hell despite Yahweh being all great?
The more you think about it, the more you realise christians are worshipping a personification of the Idea of Good in a fictional Jesus, and less a wrathful jewish deity

>>18128765
>Explain how, according to christian cosmology, anyone who was born before Yeshua were sent straight to Hell despite Yahweh being all great?
I have never heard anyone mention any of this even once in any church. You are being dishonest and everyone knows it, by saying things that are untrue and lying. The question is why even bother doing this?

That is to say, why not just stop saying such blatant, mentally retarded lies? I don't even know what's in it for you, anon. Just seeking validation, I guess.

>>18128765
According to christians, Jesus did come and pick them up, though

>>18128765
>The more you think about it, the more you realise christians are worshipping a personification of the Idea of Good in a fictional Jesus, and less a wrathful jewish deity
Most christians are actually manichaeans.

>>18128765
>Yeshua
Enjoy Hell.

>>18128765
what do you mean by actually and if you think about it.

they tell you this directly anon , those are half lifes to a degree , because thier is a wrathfull side in thier interpretacion sometimes.

you are just using the term fictional for some reason.

>>18127744 (OP)
Bring it on YHWH..

>>18127744 (OP)
I don't understand the mindset of Calvinism
Denying free will is denying reality

>>18128541
The Trinity makes perfect sense though so it's a poor analogy

>>18129907
>Denying free will is denying reality
>Denying that the Sun revolves around Earth is denying reality, everyone can see how it rises in the east and sets in the west

>>18129916
>non sequitur
If I see you irl am I predestined to tell you to fuck off?

>>18129931
Neither predestined, nor free. The dice will decide it for you and the circumstances will decide what outcome is more likely.

>>18128798
>I have never heard anyone mention any of this even once in any church.
Probably because Sunday service is for all the fat retards were the pastor tells you to be nice and shit and gives you some cute anecdote from the Bible about the Good Samaritan. They don’t talk real theology.

So what’s theological answer to this question? What happens to the dude that was born on North Sentinel Island 4,000 years ago? Depends on the denomination.

Catholics think they go to Purgatory pretty sure. Calvinists say he went to hell. Really varies a lot, but it’s a question many denominations skirt around.

>>18129940
Wrong
I am a free son of God, not some creature ruled by 'circumstances'

>>18129907
>I don't understand the mindset of Calvinism
It was an extreme reaction to the catholic church selling indulgences and other corrupt practices. So Calvin invented a theology all about how you can not buy your way into heaven.

Calvin is probably roasting

>>"I didn't know any better please have mercy"
The biblical answer to this is they did know better and sinned against their very real knowledge of God (Romans 1)

>>18128120
>If you believe in free will it is a tragedy because that person could have done otherwise
This does not follow, because 1. A person having the natural power to escape hell does not somehow make his fate more tragic than if he does not 2. There is precisely one sense in which we deny free will, and only one way in which we dissent from historic Romanism on the question of man's will; we do not deny that man has the power to choose A or B, or that the things which he does he does from his own natural power, we only deny that he has the natural power to choose to do what is really good and pleasing to God (including to repent) without the miraculous intervention of the Holy Spirit. This bondage of man's will to sin is not caused by God's sovereignty, but by Adam's fall.

>>18128535
Calvinism is double predestinarian.
>>18128765
Men were sent to hell before Christ because Yahweh is all great. God is holy, holy, holy, and will not tolerate the tiniest sin, so one who dies outside the covenant of grace receives exactly what he deserves and suffers the penalty of breaking the covenant of works.

>>18130871
When people argue these things it’s often forgotten that Jesus specifically addressed this when he died.
>He was suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into Hell. On the third day he rose from the dead in accordance with the scriptures.
>Apostles’ creed

Early Christian tradition describes a Harrowing of Hell where Jesus descends into Hell (to them called Sheol, “place of the dead”) and releases all the righteous that were sent there before Jesus’ ministry on earth started. It’s the understanding of why in Matthew 27:52-53
> And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
This is Jesus doing the resurrection of the dead for those of the old covenant that faithfully waited for the Messiah to come but could not yet enter Heaven. Paul mentions this in his letter to the Ephesians 4:8-9
> Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Jesus is fulfilling the promise by taking the old saints that resided in Hell prior to the Gospel, resurrecting them and assuming them into Heaven alongside himself.

So the question then would become, given Jesus has now opened the way up for everyone to enter Heaven, would he grant the same mercy to those that have never heard the Gospel in their lifetimes after his ministry began? They do die outside the covenant, that is true, but they never received the good news of what the covenant is to join it.

>>18130871
>Calvinism is double predestinarian
Wrong, that's typically hyper-calvinism which is none of the positions of the Reformed confessions & catechisms, Reformed stop short of claiming God selected people before creation for damnation

>>18127744 (OP)
>Infects your church
>Soulwinning completely stops
Heh, nothing personal kid