Thread 18133878

He was much closer to winning a world war than Hitler, yet everyone is obsessed with Hitler.

Weird huh.

>>18133878 (OP)
It's not really weird.

Understanding politics before Hitler takes a bit more brain power. It's easy to just shout about Jews, admire Romanesque statues, listen to a ratty faced orator tell you you're extra special so you can kill everyone, and pretend you're cultured.


It's another thing to actually do and think hard things like understand the mind of the Kaiser, understand the intricacies of European affairs for several centuries leading up to WW1, the battle developments happening, and breaking your heart to see several great societies torn asunder.

>>18133907
>It's easy to just shout about Jews, admire Romanesque statues, listen to a ratty faced orator tell you you're extra special so you can kill everyone, and pretend you're cultured.

People still fall for it even today.

>>18133878 (OP)
Hitler didn’t win the war but he won our hearts.

>>18133878 (OP)
The outcome of both World Wars pretty much relied on the United States and in neither war were the Yanks willing to let Germany establish a hegemony on the European Continent.

And in comparison to the German Nobility the Nazis archieved much more under less favourable conditions. They managed to defeat France (which was a far more serious threat than the frail Russian Empire) and forced the UDSSR into an existential Crisis, all while the Axis were outmatched in any aspect by the Allies. Meanwhile Germany during WW1 got bogged down by France and would have been overrun by Russia very early on during the war if not for the Austrian-Hungarian Army softening them up and allowing the Germans to win at Tannenberg.

>>18133907
The 2nd Reich is criminally underrated imo. Holding out against Russia and France at the same time was incredible. NS Germany mostly fought only on 1 front. But nobody cares because "le epic Nazis" wore more badass uniforms

>>18133922
Germany also defeated France in WW1 retard. Only the fucking British and later Americans kept them afloat.

>>18133924
Knocking out France in a month was pretty raw ngl.

>>18133924
>calls the Western Front insignificant

Just because the Eastern Front consisted of essentially WW1-style Armies with improved tanks grinding each other down doesn't mean the Western Front was insignificant. Arguably the Western Front is more of interest because it actually showcases the revolutionised warfare. The Soviet Union on the other hand was only anle to go toe to toe with the Axis due to the Allies essentially keeping the full might of the Axis Air forces occupied in the West and tying hundreds of tousands of Soldiers (especially from the modernised divisions, meanwhile on the East the Germans had to rely on Horses and trains) in Western Europe. Not to forget the American Industry keeping the Soviets afloat.

Massive armies fighting attritional battles have been outdated since WW1, otherwise the other Axis Members except Japan wouldn't have been so curbstomped. The decisive Factors were Industry, technology, mobility and Air support. And in that regard the Soviets paled heavily compared to the Axis, hence their unsustainable casualty rates against a Force which couldn't even bring its full might to the Eastern Front.

>>18133924
In WW1 Germany held out against Britain, France, and Russia. Knocking Russia out of the war, and getting near Paris.

>>18133932
France lost more people in a single week in WW1 than the lost in the 6 years of WW2. France as a nation was on the verge of collapse and would have probably collapsed if they actually tried fighting back in 1939, so in their mind it's best to capitulate. Hitler basically beat up a paralyzed guy in a wheelchair, thought he was Mike Tyson, but then got his shit smashed by countries who actually fought back

>>18133930
>they defeated France except they didn't.

When you find out the UK and USA didn't really care about the war for the first 2/3rds of it, its starts to really get in the way of the Nazi myth that they were fighting the entire world.

>>18133954
Their population had restabilized by WW2, the real reason they didn't want to fight was 'cuz they were on the verge of a communist revolutionary war and many conservative French loved Hitler and hated Jews. Nazi ideology transcended Germany. This is why the Germans didn't even have to conquer half the country before a new government took over to make peace and join forces with them against the marxists.

>>18133966
That's because most of the people in those countries agreed with the Nazis and it took years of propaganda to get the war going on their end.

>>18133907
No? Communists were admittingly a force to be reckoned with, but the French were definitely not going to give up their country just to avoid fighting a barely-threatening Force. Heck, even the Germans with their occupation barely had a problem with Communist Partisans.

>>18133983
>>18133994
The Great War in Europe collapsed 5 empires, ended ancient, aristocratic families, birthed like 2 dozen new countries, and completely changed the world. Some soldiers thought it would last decades, that the entire world would collapse Ito chaos. So, when it ended, all of Europe was still only feet from the brink of collapse. The revolution shit that happened in Russia could have easily happened anywhere. Germany wasn't immune. The Kiel revolt, and let's not forget both Hitler and Mussolini dabbled in Marxist revolutionary groups before switching the fascism. You say Nazi ideology transcended Germany, but the truth is that the search for stability is what most of Europe was looking for. Some people assumed that was Nazism. The Mitfords, the Moselys, and even Edward VIII thought that way. But we see now their judgements were premature, as the whole thing ended up being a big farce, and ended up with Hitler putting a bullet in his head.

>>18133990
The UK was forcing Germany into submission with 1 hand behind its back. The other hand was forcing submission to the Japanese Empire. When the Germans failed to achieve air superiority with their failed Battle of Britain, that's when the nail in the coffin was hammered in for the Nazis. After that, it was just straight hammering the Germans until they couldn't take it anymore.

The UK successfully won a war on tho hemispheres of the globe, in a dozen different theaters, all with their own logistical nightmares. That is, to me, far more impressive than driving straight to Moscow through plains and losing.

>>18134019
What did the UK do against the Japanese Empire but surrender? The Americans solo'ed the Japs while the UK just hid in their corners waiting.

>>18134037
Well, when you're operating in multiple theaters, thousands of miles away, you're going to have some setbacks (not "surrendering" lol). British didn't have the luxury of fighting next door. Hitler and the Nazis didn't really do much outside of Eastern Europe....There was that whole North African bit with the over-rated Rommel, who, after losing decisively in germanys only non-European theatre, was rightfully told to kill himself. Funny thing was he was beaten by a closeted homosexual.

>>18134061
What's funny about Montgomery being gay?

>>18133878 (OP)
If it wasn’t for the utter stupidity of the Zimmermann telegram the krauts could probably have forced the UK and France to negotiate a white peace. Unrestricted submarine warfare was justified considering the British blockade, but the telegram on top of that? It’s like they were begging for the Americans to enter the war.

>>18133878 (OP)
Hitler could have won if he took Moscow (as unrealistic as that may be).
I don't even know what the win condition for WW1 Germany is. Take Paris, Rome, AND Petrograd? And somehow prevent Austria-Hungary's collapse?

>>18134477
Napoleon took Moscow and still lost to Russia, why would Hitler be any different?

>>18134477
The win condition is not losing. If they can take Paris after Brest-Litovsk they can probably force a negotiated peace.

>>18134487
Napoleon didn't have tanks
>>18134488
They'd still be at war with Italy and Britain, and Russia could reenter at any moment. Also France might not have given up if just Paris fell

>>18134498
Italy was utterly irrelevant in WW1, they were getting pushed back by Austria-Hungary before the armistice. If France falls, there’s little reason for the UK to continue fighting the germans. What are they gonna do, stage a costly invasion of mainland Europe 4 years into a deeply unpopular and already costly war? France might not give up if Paris falls, but it’s gonna make the situation a lot worse with how slow the lines move in WW1. Every nation bar America was on the brink of collapse in 1918. The fall of Paris might just be the shockwave that finally forces a negotiation.

>>18133878 (OP)
>He was much closer to winning a world war than Hitler
Neither were close to anything. The German Empire's fate was already sealed by December 1914. The failure of Ypres was catastrophic in hindsight.

>>18133907
>listen to a ratty faced orator tell you you're extra special so you can kill everyone, and pretend you're cultured.
Cool it with the antisemitism

>>18133954
France declared war with Britain while Germany should have been bogged down in Poland. It's all actually very impressive

>>18134626
They could have achieved something in 1918 if wasn’t for the Zimmerman telegram bringing America into the conflict. Without that it’s likely that the U.S only declares war a few months later, making the post-Brest Litovsk offensives less haphazardly put together and rushed. What would happen if, let’s say, there’s no Zimmerman telegram and America only declares war in August or September?

>>18133878 (OP)
Hitler was more infamous, hence he's more remembered. The Kaiser is being forgotten due to WWI in general capturing less of the public interest.

WWI was seen more as a tragic, collective loss of life, while WWII is more a straight-forward good vs evil war (How accurate that is aside, it's how the public views it.)

>>18134498
>Napoleon didn't have tanks
What does that have to do with anything? Soviets hand tanks too and more of them so it's not like the Germans had an edge just 'cuz they had the modern form of cavalry lol

>>18133878 (OP)
Even his rizz is drippin'.

>>18133955
They quite did.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_French_Army_mutinies