Thread 18145774

Wtf do Fascists and other Right Wingers actually dislike so much about Communism given that, when looking at the actual physical world consequences of Soviet based regimes in Europe, they almost all just produced the kind of society that reactionaries dream about?
Seriously, just ignore the Hammer and Sickle symbols for a second and look at what society actually looked like in the Warsaw Pact
>Homogenized Ethnostates like Poland, East Germany, Hungary, etc. where immigration was virtually null
>Governments deliberately encouraged local customs and traditions to try and shield themselves from 'American cultural Imperialism'
>Heavily militarized societies where army service was mandatory and refusants were punished
>State strongly encouraged fertility and big families
Isnt this what Chuds want? Do they really just hate it because it uses red flags and hammers and sickles as opposed to monarchist coats of arms and crowns?
>But their rhetoric and ideas-
Literally irrelevant, meaningless babble, only concrete real world results matter.

Lolberts always say this and in doing say they reveal themselves to be, like their communist friends, agents of equality. Fascism was a modern movement that was a lot more equal than the Reaction of the past, but it still tried to hold the line against the revolutionary-democratic impulses of Liberalism and Communism to an extent.

>>18145774 (OP)
I only hate communism because I'm racist against Slavs

>>18145774 (OP)
I have noticed that Marxists have very fine definitions of which state is socialist or not whereas Fascists don’t and so they gravitate towards any state which at least nominally preserves their culture and is of one ethnicity. North Korea and Stalinist era USSR are two examples of countries sometimes idolized by Fascists.

>>18145774 (OP)
Sorry but i enjoy food on the table

>>18145774 (OP)
Chinese Communism works
Russian Bolshevism doesn't

>>18145774 (OP)
>Heavily militarized societies where army service was mandatory and refusants were punished
Well yeah. Buty what I think tends to get left out of these debates about communism, fascism, etc. is just how militarized politics were in Europe back then across the board. So, yes, communism was highly militarized (and viewing a giant war as helping further the revolution isn't unusual among Marxist-Leninists either) and that seems very different from mainstream politics in Europe today.

I think you can say one of Lenin's (and Trotsky's) innovations was the use of party militia and the deployment of violence and terror as a normal part of doing politics, but I think that's really where the "horseshoe" resemblence with fascism is, the fascists quickly "learned" from that and deployed similar methods against socialists and communists. The main group in Italy that flipped sides from the socialists to the fascists were rural farm workers but the core of the fascist movement was middle class which also tended to be more nationalistic back then.

BTW, fascism initially appeared as a kind of schismatic, nationalistic far-left movement (that sounds weird but initially it tried to code as a radical left / syndicalist / republican force that advocated many progressive policies) which engaged in violent sectarian attacks on the socialists and then mutated dramatically in, like, 1920 into a more overtly right-wing party, and the composition of the rank-and-file membership also changed pretty radically. A lot of the core leaders remained but they basically chudded themselves up and came to lead angry chuds and war veterans hostile to socialism and with support from right-wing businessmen and land owners.

That was long-winded but I'm just saying "heavily militarized society" was not unique to the USSR at the time. Mass conscription? Okay that's Britain, France, and Germany. You might say Lenin created a militarized version of socialism.

>>18145880
Yeah as a kid I was a Fox News watched and I believed stuff they said like Lenin personally murdered ten trillion people and commies and Nazis are the same thing but looking at it objectively, all societies in the 1920s and 1930s had authoritarian aspects such as prominent militarism. You could make comparisons between Fascist Germany and USA of the period if you wanted

>president effectively runs for life and holds a cult of personality centered around him
>heavy public works projects
>strongly anti-communist society/ Pinkertons hired to murder communists for business interests
>concentration camps for ‘enemy minorities’ - Japanese in WWII

>>18145847
>Chinese communism
that's just National-Socialism with Chinese characteristics

>>18145851
Fascism always remained moderately leftist, like New Deal, which was admired by fascists.

>>18145774 (OP)
fascism is the way

>>18145774 (OP)
Immigrating was virtually null in all of Europe

>>18145774 (OP)
East Germany and Czechoslovakia took immigrants from Vietnam towards the end. All the other commie cunts were too underdeveloped even Iranians and latinx were better off staying put

>>18145793
There's no evidence Hitler was racist. Nazi Germany had open borders.
Hitler never had any rightwing positions at all and the FBI created the American Nazi party specifically to help the new left and make the rightwing look bad, and modern feds continue to do this as well.

>>18145774 (OP)
Fascists aren't "right wing" and Mussolini praised Stalin on multiple occasions

>>18145897
I've never heard a real explanation as to why China is national socialist other than "they're racist to non-chinese and that's what national socialism is". This must be an American cope. Pretty much everyone abroad calls them what they are. Red communists.

>>18146181
His will eventually accept that sides were created by rotschilds, ideologies are a boomer concept that has no meaning today, in the future after capitalism collapses the choice will be for humans to even survive and care at all.

>>18145774 (OP)
>refusants
Is this a word?

>>18145892
Yeah. That said, Lenin and the Bolsheviks did believe in using state violence to destroy their political opponents (entire social classes) and they did so on a level and with a ferocity that was fairly unprecedented at that point.

>>18145898
Right. Well I think another thing that marked fascism was the style. These guys were big into heroic myths and they built a whole cult of Rome around themselves, like they'd name blackshirt units in a style that recalled the Roman legions. It was highly theatrical, a lot of chanting involved, and they also put on big public shows for funerals of squadristi killed in fighting with socialists. This thing with the funerals reminds me of Hezbollah in a way. They were also more violent than the socialists in Italy but part of that was also the fact that they were much deadlier and better at doing violence. A lot of their style originated with D'Annunzio who was an avant-garde nationalist who carried out a crazy military expedition to Fiume, which was a city mostly inhabited by Italians which had been part of Austria-Hungary:
https://youtu.be/9yxF6zMKcao

The fascists (well the Italian ones) would also salute with knives.

>>18145774 (OP)
If you can't see the difference between state syndicalism/class collaboration and planned economies/class warfare I am not really sure how to explain it to you. Even functionally they were radically different systems with radically different goals and radically different ideas about how to get there.

>>18146225
The fascists were also explicitly pro-imperialist, pro-war. Other than Lenin and the Bolsheviks, the Italian Socialist Party was one of the few notable socialist parties to oppose their country's involvement in World War I. The Italian socialists took a neutralist position although they were more sympathetic to the Entente.

Mussolini's group became very pro-war. They believed the war had radical and transformative potential for the Italian nation because it would be a way to mobilize the entire society. That did actually happen, but the casualties were horrific (650,000) compared to what Italy gained from it, and the war ended with high inflation and unemployment, then there were massive waves of factory strikes and rural land occupations in Italy which made it appear like a revolution from the left was about to happen.

The fascists were a minor thing during this period but then grew rapidly in 1920, around there, and actually got a lot of money from banks and industrialists.

>>18146237
That is why hitler was not a fascist.

>>18145774 (OP)
>they almost all just produced the kind of society that reactionaries dream about?
It's learning . . .

>>18145793
Fascism cares about the working man, and their importance to the Nation, while also upholding social hierarchy as an important institution.

>>18146545
>(any political ideology likely to ever be implemented) cares about the working man