Thread 7678903

Despite the big amount of skilled anime-influenced social media and porn artists, how come nearly nobody ever managed to make a successful online manga-styled webcomic?
The closest we have is Ramia-Yana yet it's not that great. Other like Radiant and the likes aren't webcomics and are published by actual comics companies so they don't count.

that requires intellitence and creatitivity. drawing flavor of the month slop until your fingers fall of is the opposite of that

>another tgs thread after the one he made yesterday got 404ed
people aren't following him for the comic

A harsh truth is that no matter how well you draw those action scenes and thicc bitches, unless you put considerable amounts of porn in there your comic will be carried by the writing. and when you're some autistic weeb you generally can't write for shit and are too annoying for a competent writefag to want to work with you.

When you look up who draws webcomics, sometimes they rape children and they all have mental issues but overall they tend to be well adjusted adults who go outside, are capable of holding a job, and take showers every other day.

>>7678903 (OP)
Because online echo chambers have warped your perspective. Irl non-Asians look down on mangas. And Asians look down on gaijin-made “mangas”.

>>7678903 (OP)
>how come nearly nobody ever managed to make a successful online manga-styled webcomic?
There are few webcomics that are really high quality... at least in term of art.
The simple reason being - it's a hobby. Why would you spend all your free time, and likely earning no profit back, from making a free webcomic for ungrateful shits on the internet, when you could be doing a hobby that's more easily worth the effort?
However, if the art is more simple and low effort; it's more easily justifiable.

Anyone who's got the skills to make a truly great looking webcomic would be making a proper graphic novel, or already working in the industry in some fashion.

>>7678903 (OP)
Because webcomics suck. And they suck your soul and passion away the longer they go on. Better to do something you get paid well for and has a definite end in sight.

>>7678903 (OP)
> how come nearly nobody ever managed to make a successful online manga-styled webcomic?
I think I have the capability to do it. but I'm cursed , so probably not.
>>7678931
>Because webcomics suck.
whats better? a dying medium like print comics?

Because the most important part is the writing, not the art. And it cannot be just any kind of writing, it has to adhere to Japanese conventions for how a story should be written, how its beats progress, how its characters speak and interact. Manga is japanese, so it carries that cultural background in its stories, the westerner trying to draw anga does not. That is why you must extensively study the culture and language should you be serious about appealing to the audience manga has cultivated. Otherwise, just make western styled comics

>>7678956
Are there any acceptable western styled comics with anime-influenced art that aren't trying to be like manga?

>>7678962
Unsounded.

>>7678941
>whats better? a dying medium like print comics?
Remind me again, how is the manga industry doing at the moment?

>>7678993
Oh yeah the manga industry is absolutely FLOUNDERING compared to comics, right O almost forgot. Manga never stood a chance! And webcomics will INHERIT THE FUTURE! webtoons are just the best, it has so many modern greats and classics like uhm..uh...Manga is dying!

No offense OP but what makes you think that being “good at art” would equate to being a good author. How many directors are there that can write a script that’s worth a damn? How many musicians have ghost writers?

>>7678903 (OP)
Because it is impossible to keep up the audience interested in the Manga without a team or funding, and solo artists have to use all the tricks in the book to push out pages per week. Its pretty much requires too much work ethic, and impeccable work flow to delegate the workload. Always get a team before you do manga, may the gods and the muses guide you.

>>7679020
>Always get a team before you do manga,
The hell are you talking about? I've been making manga/comics for over a decade on my own. Having people to help is a luxury, not a necessity, not unless we're talking about pumping out 20+ good pages a week.

>>7678903 (OP)
Whenever ive seen a concept faggot doing comics, its the soulless, most boring shit ever. Concept art makes you retarded, thats the truth.
Pic highly related.
P.S. i will be the first

>>7678956
There are very few Japanese writers worth a shit.

And none of them can draw(well).

>>7678956
Based and redpilled.
>>7679046
The greatest living writers today are Japanese.

>>7679065
If I may present a couple counterpoints
>I'm not Japanese
>Kotaro Uchikoshi's magnum opus was 13 years ago
Thank you for getting btfo'd politely.

>all these excuses
lol

>>7678969
>Studio Mir/Avatar adjacent art style
Meh...

>>7678903 (OP)
That pfp sucks.

>>7678903 (OP)
All they do is shonenslop or fantasy, look at the Japanese market: sure the top 4-8 bestsellers tend to be battle shonen but outside of the few hyper successful ones there are very little other ones and they sell like shit

What they need to make is seinen stuff and all the other stuff that makes up the bulk of the market like romance, romcom and adult drama. Hell even Isekai

>>7679118
>shonenslop
you know I'm still not sure what this is really supposed to mean

>>7679125
Eh, point taken, I was just being overly edgy
I mean battle manga

There's nothing wrong with it per se, but commercially it's very hit or miss and while it does appeal to the mainstream audience it doesn't appeal to more hardcore and varied manga readers

People tend to read the 2 or 3 super popular ones but the bulk of the market is romcom, drama and comedy

>>7679038
Yeah you want to pump out good Manga pages every week or month, for serialized mangaka only. Are you any famous? Because you if are, you should know. I guess not.

>>7679072
How are either of these """counterpoints""" or even relevant?

>>7678903 (OP)
>can't write (hasn't spent enough time and doesn't care to do it really well like the Japanese)
>can't draw (hasn't spent enough time and doesn't care to do it really well like the Japanese)
>has a culture with no quality standards or vetting (everything is subjective)
>has a culture with mental illness being normalized and weaponized to shut you down if you make something problematic
If you recognize that this is the norm in westoid artist circles the lack of quality should not surprise you.

>>7678962
>acceptable western styled comic
Acceptable to whom kek
e.g. I will not read anything with western artstyle on principle, gotta chose the target audience.

didn't you make this thread three times this week already, gabe? Why do you keep seething about perceived skill level on other webcomic artists when you don't even make yours?

>>7679125
>you know I'm still not sure what this is really supposed to mean
To be fair, "shonen" isn't a genre - it's a demographic, i.e. young boys, and there's a fuckload of shonen stuff that isn't related to fighting stuff or even comes across like something for girls at first glance

>>7679168
The only nipponese man contending for the title is past his prime and the clear leader is not nipponese. Given the conclusive nature of my counterpoints and you inability to fill the gaps,nit is no wonder that you consider the Japanese to be the best writers in the world.

>>7679220
>Nit
It*
I clearly am not the world's best at typing.

>>7679220
>The only nipponese man contending for the title is past his prime
You can't even read Japanese lil bro.

>the clear leader
Who?

>>7679232
Unless you can read Kajiri Kamui Kagura, don't act smug.

>Who?
You can't even read English, big bro.

>>7679039
>i will be the first
What do you have in mind anon? What will set you apart from the rest?

Why isn't there a board for learning how to write?
>/lit/
Fuck no, that place is actually one of the worst boards imaginable

>>7679237
Even if I got brain damage and lost all my Japanese ability, that wouldn't make (You) any better at it.

>can't even read English
I have enough Japanese media to last me a lifetime.

>>7678903 (OP)
>how come nearly nobody ever managed to make a successful online manga-styled webcomic?
Because most of these fags only care about character designs and hype moments rather than actual storytelling or sequential art.

>>7679218
When people talk about shonen in the west it's what Japanese would call battle manga

Although you could see some authors talking about shonen manga while referring to that type of work or shojo manga when referring to romance

>>7679240
> What will set you apart from the rest?
Thats the point, shonen is a slop genre, i want it to feel familiar, not different. I will change maybe 10%, not more.

>>7679321
but what's the genre comprised of?

>>7679325
That's not a question that anyone here could actually answer in a way that isn't deliberately ironic or detached

>>7679346
The fuck are you talking about? Oh, sorry I forgot where I am for a second..

>>7679346
>>7679366
I think I kind of get it, what actually is "shonen" that sets people off so badly? Action stuff? Adventure elements? People will just endlessly beat around the bush because it's too abstract to quantify in words (especially for ESLs) so you're much more likely to get some kind of ironic meme answer as a way to deflect

>>7679325
usually

>introduction to the world
>basic training arc
>beating the first villain
>Some form of tornament arc (or exam arc whatever)
>beating a rival
>MC actually in the world
> MC gets beaten by a villain
>training arc/time skip
>hidden tournament arc (making characters fight each other while working your way to the big boss)
>MC beats the main villain usually by the power of team work or some special in born power finally releasing

You can sprinkle in the MC god mode power throughout the story. Usually the MC shows great potential that shoots him past the begs. If you want a straight power fantasy the MC never loses because he so cool.

>>7679394
>Adventure elements?
Modern style shounenslop doesn't do that anymore either. (JJK, CSM, Dandadan and Kagurabachi all take place in the exact same locations the vast majority of the time)

>>7678903 (OP)
>how come nearly nobody ever managed to make a successful online manga-styled webcomic?
Do you mean webtoons? There's TBATE, the author, TurtleMe, is American and his artists are Indonesian and Chinese.
They got a shitty anime adaptation but that's Radiant tier levels of making it as a weeb.
There's also Brandon Chen, his webtoons will be animated soon and he's a millionaire doing weeb shit so that's at least 2 that qualify.

>>7679247
>Why isn't there a board for learning how to write?
The part of writing that can be taught is already taught in school. Nobody can teach you how to be clever or original or interesting or how to have ideas or how to choose how to convey those ideas. There are things that generally work, a golden road so to speak, but copying a few structural things isn't the same as learning to write and reading a few student scripts is enough indication of that.

>>7679301
>Although you could see some authors talking about shonen manga while referring to that type of work or shojo manga when referring to romance
Examples of this? Because you might just be conflating authors with random fuckheads on /a/ here. Shoujo manga is extremely different stylistically from shounen manga, nobody who has seen examples of both would conflate the two.

>>7679247
/lit/ is literally the best board on this shithole. They actually read over there. And reading makes you a better person.

>>7679251
>He thinks knowing a language with a writing system that's syllabery+ideographic glyphs is something to be proud of
You shouldn't flex not being sentient

>I have enough Japanese media to last me a lifetime.
No wonder you overestimate nips.

>>7678903 (OP)
twitter and instagram aren't good for reading comcis

>>7680178
You're spouting buzzwords because you have no knowledge or ability. It's truly pathetic.

>>7678903 (OP)
most people dont read comics. Most people who read comics only read popular comics. So you're looking at a fanbase of people who deliberately seek out indie comics and read them, that's a very tiny subset of people.

If you try to make something to appeal to the average retard, you have to somehow beat the advertising power of mainstream comics and manga. People simply refuse to try anything that isn't already huge and popular. So if you get serialized, then your comic can get popular even if its dogshit, see CSM.

>>7680239
>Syllabery and Ideographic glyphs are buzzwords
Dear god. How silly of me to think that anybody willing to put himself through the meatgrinder to reconcile with an ideographic system could have had studied epigraphy or writing systems, and not be utterly repulsed by it.

Are Abugidas, Alphasyllaberies and Alphabets also buzzwords to you? Where are these words buzzing?

>>7680244
You don't know Japanese are coping by throwing out reddit buzzwords. Just admit you are a low information weeb consumer.

>>7680248
I don't need coping for an objectively correct linguistic fact, only stating.

>weeb consumer
And how your poverty in the gift of diction rears its head again. A weaboo is precisely what I'm not and what you are. The Japanese are only a small (but admittedly admirable, just far from the best) part of literature for me.

You have no sense of the beauty of expression through the latin writing of Cicero, no understanding of elegant of prose from a modern master like Keegan, no appreciation of culture from the deep study of medieval poetry of the Occitan Troubadours, no sense of it's history and the beauty of writing in West and South Asia, and worst of all, you cannot even read technically complex Japanese works like Kajiri Kamui Kagura, which does not even have a comparable expanse of Vocabulary to a similarly complex English Language and yet you attempt to school me on language.

Truly amusing. Do go on.

>>7680260
>elegant
elegance*
Apologies

>>7678903 (OP)
There are good manga-influenced webcomics like K6BD. But I think in the end, drawing in a 1:1 stereotypical 'manga style', expecially as a westerner, is comorbid with having zero creativity. It's the kind of tryhardism and incestuous influencing that just doesn't allow for worthwhile stories.

>>7680287
>stereotypical 'manga style'
that's not even really a thing, manga has big variety of artstyles

>>7680301
Yes, and that is very much my point. If you're trying to draw something that 'looks like a manga' you're already failed at the foundation. Your work ends up a copy of bastardized ideal that never really existed, and has no actual connection to reality.

>>7680287
>It's the kind of tryhardism and incestuous influencing that just doesn't allow for worthwhile stories.
When a westerner tries to make "manga" it's never anything unexpected. It's never something that takes you by surprise, catches you off guard and makes you go "holy shit that's brilliant". It will be something you can "see" the algorithm in. Like the character design equivalent of a Labubu.

>>7678903 (OP)
How many people are skilled at drawing?
How many of them draw in an anime-derived style?
How many of them are even interested in making comics?
How many of them are willing to put in the gargantuan amount of time required to create a comic?
How many of them are, or are able to collaborate with a decent writer?

>>7678962
Relatively new but maybe life is hell by fallen? It has porn in it but it has unusually good writing and characterization

>>7678903 (OP)
I'm working on one, I made a bunch of research and work already. There are, but its very hard to put it out there. Basically people would rather make webtoons at the moment, because it has easy platform to access/post on.
And the reason there aren't many that are well-known is because they are- and I'm very sorry to say this- shit. >>7681282 is right, and the bad rep that webcomics and toons get is earned by a mountain of trope-filled, amateur shit, or one-trick-ponies failing to breathe life into their OCs or whatever worked for them on Twitter.
So, there's a market to tap in, here. But if you try your hand at it, you'll understand why most of it is shit. It's really difficult to make a decent comic. Good luck if you're gonna attempt it, it's a lot of fun.

They're all drawing the wrong stuff, it's all generic action stuff
The ones that get some traction are comedy, but they're pretty much 4koma without a coherent plot

>>7679003
How do you read my post, and interpret it as as the complete opposite thing of what I'm saying? Genuinely a baffling level of retardation.

a lot of online webcomic artists will stick with their shitty webcomic for years, while actual succesful mangakas and comic authors will have some cancellations in their pocket, basically you need someone to tell you “this is shit, wrap it up and try again”

>>7681949
On the other hand, many great webcomics either slow down in their updates to a crippling degree, or outright stop being updated all together.
One piece of advice I'd give any creator is to always have an ending in your pocket, so that you can finish the series in a satisfying way, and not just stop and betray your audience with a shitty non-ending. Even axed comic endings are better than just stopping.

/thread

I've been thinking about making a comic recently, but as another anon has pointed out, it's so much more than just drawing your perfect waifu flavour of the month which is what I'm most used to I guess.

Script writing is one thing, but coming up with easily replicable environments, iconic but again, easily replicable outfits for your characters. It's panel placement and flow I struggle with the most. Comic creation really is a multi-pronged talent.

>>7679039
>>7679321
>>7679535
You are such a midwit that I dropped your comic before it was even made.

>>7678903 (OP)
You seriously need to venture out of your bubble and read more.

>>7679247
/lit/ is great, but if you're looking for another board to circle jerk in that's not the place. Writing is both easy and hard which doesn't make sense, but it does after you've done it for a while. Basically, good ideas are the easy part, they're a dime a dozen and chances are you want to write something because you already have a good idea. The hard part is editing. Not actually writing the thing, that's also hard, but most of your time with the project is going to be spent on editing. Maybe you're happy with acts 1 & 3 but you can't explain why you hate act 2 so much and feel like scrapping the whole thing. Maybe you're happy with acts 1 & 2 but you can't figure out how to land the ending in the satisfying way. Maybe you found the perfect solution to a problem but now you need to rewrite act 1. You're going to be schizo for several months and friends & family will start worrying about you. You're likely going to have a wall filled up with flashcards like you're about to solve a cold case or something. It's hard work and that's the great filter. That's why there's no real "breakdown" outside of the basics and why so many stories seem to lack that "soul." No one can help you with that grueling process unless you hire someone in which case it gets expensive.

>>7680135
Mein Kampf, Ayn Rand, and whatever pretentious ancient philosophers they jizz over aren't making for better people, just more obnoxious people.

>>7682450
>You're going to be schizo for several months and friends & family will start worrying about you. You're likely going to have a wall filled up with flashcards like you're about to solve a cold case or something.

That's because you've never learned how to organize Ideas correctly.

>>7679039
Simon Stålenhag beat you anon, it only really work the way he does it. Just have a paragraph with one large detailed piece